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3/16 GDT: Red Wings 1 at Blackhawks 4



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#461 gcom007

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Posted 16 March 2014 - 10:24 PM

The Red Wings have become one of the most boring and uninspired hockey clubs in the league. How on earth does Smith have an NHL contract? He does not even belong in the AHL!

 

We have one guy who's a leader on defense, and he shouldn't be the leader. Kronwall is a great defenseman and capable of being a leader, but he's better in a number 2 role where he doesn't have to be the guy leading in the responsibility department. He's better as the guy who brings the intensity and plays on the edge. And with all the money we've thrown at players that don't contribute up front after losing Rafalski, Stuart and Lidstrom, it's frankly pathetic that he's been forced into that role. If we're going to overpay for something, we should be overpaying for a top defenseman instead of signing aging scrubs. Bringing in one really capable guy would let Kronwall go back to playing his game, would tighten up our top-4 immensely, and would likely lead to a more inspired defensive group in general. 

 

Again, because it really can't be said enough the way things have gone, my mind has has just been blown again and again by what Holland is and isn't willing to spend too much money on.


-Elliot...does not panic.

#462 gcom007

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Posted 16 March 2014 - 10:41 PM

 

You've hit the nail on the head on most points but I'm not sure how much of a leader Alfie is in the Wings clubhouse. In Ottawa he had status and a real presence; on the Wings he seems to be overshadowed by guys that don't have the same pedigree that he does, but have been here longer. I've definitely haven't seen his presence on the ice these last couple weeks, he might be a good guy in the locker room; but being the new guy and playing on the third line, I'm just not sold on his leadership ability on the current team. Plus with his experience and track record you just know Holland will give him at least 4 mil a year, and that just makes me cringe.

 

I completely agree with your second paragraph. 100% 

 

I'm not 100% sure as I'm not an insider, but given how he's looked his worst since the Olympics, I'm wondering if he's not a) exhausted and/or b) nursing some sort of injury. And I'm not saying that he's like an Lidstrom/Zetterberg-level leader just because of his role in Ottawa, but a guy like him is going to bring leadership-qualities to any team he's on. Even the fact that he's not relied upon as the most important leader here might be a good thing. The guy isn't going to change the way he works and handles himself just because he isn't being asked to take on a very specific leadership role. He's going to be sharing a role with kids that also don't have leadership roles, but they're going to be able to look at him and see how a guy who has had an incredible career does it without the pretense. I guess what I'm trying to say is that I think having a guy like him taking on a lesser role raises the bar for what's possible in that role as well as how anyone on the team ought to carry themselves on and off the ice, and I think it's good for the kids to see that.

 

But again, my thought process has a lot to do with the thinking that we're going to have the cap space to sign him, and if we're not going to sign anyone else, I think he'd contribute in his final season on and off the ice, and even if it's debatable how much he'd contribute, that kind of guy's presence is worth more than leftover cap space that will never be used.

 

But if he gets $4 million...unless he signs right before camp and we have tons of money to spare, I just won't get. But I bet he comes back for around $3 million, and with a healthier team, what he might contribute could make the deal look like a bargain.

 

And in the playoffs, you have to think that guy would be inspired and inspiring...


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#463 Bring Back The Bruise Bros

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Posted 16 March 2014 - 11:03 PM

-Franzen floated like a champ once again.
-Alfredsson has looked mediocre, to be nice.
-Legwand has become invisible since starting off decent with us.
-We played decent in the 1st, especially, but completely s*** our panties by the midway point of the 3rd.
-Howard, while some of the goals weren't completely on him, can't make saves when we really need them.
-Put simply, we're not going to make the playoffs without Datsyuk and Zetterberg.
-I want a fire sale when we don't make the playoffs. Bertuzzi, Alfredsson, Legwand, Franzen, Andersson, Cleary, Samuelsson, Emmerton, Quincey, and Lashoff all need to go. Get some players that give a s*** on this team. We've got too many players skating lackadaisically out there with the season on the line.
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#464 Hockeytown0001

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Posted 16 March 2014 - 11:24 PM

I really hope this week wasn't the nail in the coffin. 


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#465 Wheelchairsuperhero

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Posted 17 March 2014 - 12:01 AM

Well, anyone surprised?

#466 rick zombo

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Posted 17 March 2014 - 12:04 AM

Nothing like a game vs the Hawks to see what this team needs soooooooo badly. 

 

Every single one of their D can move the puck. And they have zero clowns on the back end. We have at least 2.  


"In Detroit, every day is a good day to win"

#467 gcom007

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Posted 17 March 2014 - 12:42 AM

Nothing like a game vs the Hawks to see what this team needs soooooooo badly. 

 

Every single one of their D can move the puck. And they have zero clowns on the back end. We have at least 2.  

 

Talent attracts talent and Chicago has been aggressive at signing talent when the opportunity presents itself. You get enough guys in there that believe they deserve to win and play like it and you keep winning. Everyone loved to criticize Chicago for the moves they've made in the last 5-6 years, declaring again and again how screwed they are as soon as they sign anyone, yet they keep coming back strong, and they've won two Cups in that span of time. They don't appear to be slowing down and will certainly be making a run this year again.

 

Some may disagree with me, but honestly, I think if we had signed Hossa in 2009 instead of letting him go to Chicago, those two Cups would've been ours and this team would be in a lot better shape than it's in now. Again, there's the whole talent attracts talent angle, but also, some of the fat we'd have to trim to keep Hossa and Franzen wouldn't have hurt us at all relative to what we ended up having to do anyways. Furthermore, staying more competitive while also running a bit more lean and mean with role players would've likely prevented us from having some of the bonehead stupid contract issues we've been stuck with because we were so "smart" to not get in all the "cap trouble" teams like Chicago got in again and again.

 

Seriously, think about it, we keep Hossa, Chicago's missing an important piece, especially considering he's a big part of their two way game, we're all the stronger for having him, we pick up guys like Eaves and Miller anyways because it's who we can afford, but they play better because there's more legitimate top-tier talent around. Worst case scenario at the time in terms of the roster is that we might've had to deal Flip, but he left anyways for nothing and at least we would've been able to get a return for him if he were traded. But moving forward again, if we win another Cup in that span of time, which I think would've happened, when it comes time to deal with the Lidstrom transition, I bet we'd have a much easier time finding a guy who can make a dent in filling those shoes not just willing but hungry to play for us. We are not a destination team at this point.

 

Ever since Holland let Hossa go to chase scraps, things have been going down the tubes here and they've been on the up in Chicago. It was a huge mistake to let him go, and again, I really, truly believe we'd have at least one more Cup right now had we kept Hossa and the team and it's status as a destination would still be very well intact. And hell, maybe Lidstrom would've even stuck around another year or two if we were still as competitive. Signing Hossa certainly wouldn't have solved all the problems we've had to deal with, but I can't help but think it'd sure as hell make it a lot easier while helping us stay competitive, and by sheer virtue of the lack of cap space we'd have available, it would've help us avoid some of the utterly terrible signings we've made the last few years.

 

Ugh, I hate thinking about this crap. It's just depressing. 


-Elliot...does not panic.

#468 Duck Guy

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Posted 17 March 2014 - 12:52 AM

Cant expect much with almost a whole roster full of injuries :scared:


Edited by Duck Guy, 17 March 2014 - 12:52 AM.

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#469 frankgrimes

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Posted 17 March 2014 - 02:23 AM

Well I am not that upset because I expected a loss. Personally I've said it last year an I'll say it again it was a good run but it is really time for some serious changes. This has nothing to do with making the playoffs or not it simply can't be the Wings goal to just squeeze into the playoffs. This team went from: being the superior class of the NHL to a good team to behind the pack to a team fighting for the playoffs....that's not Wingsstyle it's unacceptable, period.

 

Players are expected to perform to the highest levels night in and night out so should GMs. If I am the owner I'm telling Holland listen: This is your offseason to turn this team into the right direction, we need to get bigger, meaner and the defense needs a fix spend whatever it takes just do it...if you aren't willing to do so I am more than happy to promote you to become VP and let Steve Yzerman run the show. Maybe missing the playoffs will be the best possible outcome longterm, because no more signing over the hill and undersized guys it would (hopefully) lead to housecleaning. Imagine if this team would have been still in the west they might be competing with the Oilers, Flames...for one of the top 5 picks *lol*


Edited by frankgrimes, 17 March 2014 - 07:34 AM.

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#470 kipwinger

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Posted 17 March 2014 - 05:56 AM

Does this mean that the difference between us making the playoffs and not making the playoffs WAS NOT David Legwand? 


GMRwings:  "Well, in other civilized countries, 16 years old isn't considered underage.  For instance, I believe the age of consent is 16 in Canada.  There's some US states where it's 16 as well.  

 

Get off the high horse.  Not like she was 10."

 

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#471 Dave

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Posted 17 March 2014 - 06:25 AM

Does this mean that the difference between us making the playoffs and not making the playoffs WAS NOT David Legwand? 

 

It appears so. The team is lost. Even the kids can't keep this sinking ship afloat.



#472 kipwinger

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Posted 17 March 2014 - 06:37 AM

 

It appears so. The team is lost. Even the kids can't keep this sinking ship afloat.

 

That's just crazy.  I mean, if Legwand wasn't going to single handedly drag us into the playoffs through his sheer strength of character and hockey prowess, then why did we give up good assets for him rather than just sign him in the offseason? 


GMRwings:  "Well, in other civilized countries, 16 years old isn't considered underage.  For instance, I believe the age of consent is 16 in Canada.  There's some US states where it's 16 as well.  

 

Get off the high horse.  Not like she was 10."

 

"Some girls are 17 even though they look 25."

 

 


#473 rick zombo

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Posted 17 March 2014 - 07:31 AM

 

That's just crazy.  I mean, if Legwand wasn't going to single handedly drag us into the playoffs through his sheer strength of character and hockey prowess, then why did we give up good assets for him rather than just sign him in the offseason? 

 

In fairness, Monster, Andersson and Jurco (and to a lesser extent Bertuzzi) all got hurt since the Legwand deal.


"In Detroit, every day is a good day to win"

#474 frankgrimes

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Posted 17 March 2014 - 07:37 AM

 

It appears so. The team is lost. Even the kids can't keep this sinking ship afloat.

 

Well I am not expecting them to do so, they are the only reason this team even has a marginal chance of making the playoffs. I can only hope Jagr will re-sign or sign elsewhere this offseason someone like him screams Holland..

 

If there's ever a falling asleep award this Wings edition would earn it:

- no energy

- no hits

-f****** nobody helping out our young willing players - disgusting the last games did show me one thing: Pasha, Z are the true leaders then there is a huge drop off in terms of leadership skills, period.

- identitity crisis for the third consecutive season

 

Can't even imagine how frustrated Babock might going from coaching team Canada to this team. Wouldn't surprise me if he decided to move on if Kenny doesn't fix his own created holes this offseason..


Edited by frankgrimes, 17 March 2014 - 07:43 AM.

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#475 kipwinger

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Posted 17 March 2014 - 07:50 AM

 

In fairness, Monster, Andersson and Jurco (and to a lesser extent Bertuzzi) all got hurt since the Legwand deal.

 

Not like we were killing it with them in the lineup though.


GMRwings:  "Well, in other civilized countries, 16 years old isn't considered underage.  For instance, I believe the age of consent is 16 in Canada.  There's some US states where it's 16 as well.  

 

Get off the high horse.  Not like she was 10."

 

"Some girls are 17 even though they look 25."

 

 


#476 rick zombo

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Posted 17 March 2014 - 08:11 AM

Well I am not that upset because I expected a loss. Personally I've said it last year an I'll say it again it was a good run but it is really time for some serious changes. This has nothing to do with making the playoffs or not it simply can't be the Wings goal to just squeeze into the playoffs. This team went from: being the superior class of the NHL to a good team to behind the pack to a team fighting for the playoffs....that's not Wingsstyle it's unacceptable, period. Players are expected to perform to the highest levels night in and night out so should GMs. If I am the owner I'm telling Holland listen: This is your offseason to turn this team into the right direction, we need to get bigger, meaner and the defense needs a fix spend whatever it takes just do it...if you aren't willing to do so I am more than happy to promote you to become VP and let Steve Yzerman run the show. Maybe missing the playoffs will be the best possible outcome longterm, because no more signing over the hill and undersized guys it would (hopefully) lead to housecleaning. Imagine if this team would have been still in the west they might be competing with the Oilers, Flames...for one of the top 5 picks *lol*

 

I don't think Holland has ever not been given permission to spend to the cap. Beyond that, he can't throw money at this team's problems. I know you know this, so I'm not clear why you'd say "spend whatever it takes". We aren't the Sens. There's no internal cap.

 

The only reason I mention this is that sometimes we think there's an easy fix, or that Holland's not trying/dosn't give a hit anymore.

 

I know Holland has made his GMs share questionable moves. But I need to ask this question: if Illitch or whomever is now running the empire took Holland aside and threatened his job, what exactly could Holland d differently? Do we think he'd suddenly be like "oh s***, I better trade for Weber" as if he hasn't already tried?

 

It will take some time to get things moving in the right deirection, unfortunately. You can thank the NHL owners and Count Cap-ula's "parity".


 

Not like we were killing it with them in the lineup though.

 

That's true. But losing them didn't help at all.


"In Detroit, every day is a good day to win"

#477 Richdg

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Posted 17 March 2014 - 08:12 AM

It was midway through the second before I even realized that Alfie was playing. He was a non factor. but then again he is 40+. Guys do run out of gas. Kronwall was -2 for the game after getting an assist on our goal.



#478 puckloo39

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Posted 17 March 2014 - 08:32 AM

Very glad to see this morning that Teemu Pulkkinen wasn't injured by Duncan Keith's hit to his head.  Keith is a repeat offender, but the refs have "wing blinders" on when it comes to our guys getting this sort of treatment - evidenced by Cowen's (Ottawa) unpunished head shot on Datsyuk, November 23, 2013 - better known as the end of the Red Wings' season. 

 

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#479 wingfan1991

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Posted 17 March 2014 - 08:38 AM

 
We were 13-12. Definitely not top conference material. 
 
Not surprising when you have guys like Bert, Abby and Cleary rotating between the top two lines. 


Not sure where you're getting your stats we were 13-7-5.. And top 3 like I said. Even with Cleary and Weiss in lineup. No chance we be this bad or fighting with datsyuk zetterberg and helm fully healthy to compliment franzen Alfie Nyqvist Tatar etc.

#480 kipwinger

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Posted 17 March 2014 - 09:27 AM

Very glad to see this morning that Teemu Pulkkinen wasn't injured by Duncan Keith's hit to his head.  Keith is a repeat offender, but the refs have "wing blinders" on when it comes to our guys getting this sort of treatment - evidenced by Cowen's (Ottawa) unpunished head shot on Datsyuk, November 23, 2013 - better known as the end of the Red Wings' season. 

 

http://www.sbnation....teemu-pulkkinen

 

Barking up the wrong tree on this one.  Keith has been suspended several times.  He's not getting any sort of special treatment as your post suggests. 

 

Also, Datsyuk is not in the lineup because of a knee injury.  It had nothing to do with the Cowen hit.  So that's a bit off base as well. 


GMRwings:  "Well, in other civilized countries, 16 years old isn't considered underage.  For instance, I believe the age of consent is 16 in Canada.  There's some US states where it's 16 as well.  

 

Get off the high horse.  Not like she was 10."

 

"Some girls are 17 even though they look 25."

 

 






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