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DickieDunn

Perspective

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The growth of the rookies is really a breath of fresh air for the team. That is exactly what it needed since 2010. Unfortunately, now that they have that, they are missing a new ingredient; the 2 team leaders.

If the Wings had 1 of Dats, or Z they would probably be in 5 or 6th place in the east.

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I'll say this, for me it's not a matter of thinking that the team is sinking or that there aren't (some) reasonable excuses for (some) of the loses. I agree, the injuries tore this team up all year. BUT we're in every game we lose, tied in a lot of games we lose, and leading in almost a third of the games we lose. When you're leading by two goals going into the third you need to win more often then we do. It would be one thing if, because of injuries, we rarely got leads in game. It's another thing entirely to have leads so often and blow them. And you can't blame that all on injuries.

Hockeymom1960 and roboturner like this

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I'll say this, for me it's not a matter of thinking that the team is sinking or that there aren't (some) reasonable excuses for (some) of the loses. I agree, the injuries tore this team up all year. BUT we're in every game we lose, tied in a lot of games we lose, and leading in almost a third of the games we lose. When you're leading by two goals going into the third you need to win more often then we do. It would be one thing if, because of injuries, we rarely got leads in game. It's another thing entirely to have leads so often and blow them. And you can't blame that all on injuries.

To me thats exactly what kids/injuries give you. Its not like Edmonton gets behind every game by three goals, without solid reliable veterans somewhere in the lineup teams show inconsistencies through periods. This is one of the first years watching the wings where you do not know what to expect after each intermission. Usually you can watch the first period of a game and know whether the wings have the legs and if they are going to win (without taking in to account the unfortunate unlucky bounces). Here we have a team that can play with any one in the league one minute and then give away a two goal lead in three minutes. The kids have played great and sprinkled among the likes of two superstar two way forwards this season would have been more consistent, but due to the injuries you never know what to expect over 20 minutes of hockey let alone the whole 60.

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I think they'll make the playoffs. I haven't checked, so I could be wrong, but I think they'd have the tie breaker against the other 3 teams sitting at 80pts (currently). I think they have more ROW than the others. They also have more games left than most.

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Great post! Interesting to see the numbers on paper, and astonishing that we are still able to say we are in the playoff picture.

Every time I think about how exciting this season has been, watching our young guys step up and find their niche on this team, I get a little bummed that they have brought us this far, and might still end up riding the pine next season (or even in the playoffs, if we get some injured bodies back). I really hope we get to see Shaehan and Glendening full-time, as I think they have earned it.

Don't get me wrong... getting Z or Dats back would be HUGE, but I like the way the kids have been playing and I just hope they won't lose their spots.

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I'll say this, for me it's not a matter of thinking that the team is sinking or that there aren't (some) reasonable excuses for (some) of the loses. I agree, the injuries tore this team up all year. BUT we're in every game we lose, tied in a lot of games we lose, and leading in almost a third of the games we lose. When you're leading by two goals going into the third you need to win more often then we do. It would be one thing if, because of injuries, we rarely got leads in game. It's another thing entirely to have leads so often and blow them. And you can't blame that all on injuries.

Not entirely,. but when you're missing your 2 best forwards who are also 2 of the best defensive forwards in the NHL, you're not going to hold leads as well as you would with them.

The biggest issue with all the injuries though is the lack of continuity. It's hard to develop any consistency when you don't know who you're going to have in the lineup on any given night. Add in the inconsistent nature of younger guys in general and you have the recipe for a lot of blown leads.

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Not entirely,. but when you're missing your 2 best forwards who are also 2 of the best defensive forwards in the NHL, you're not going to hold leads as well as you would with them.

The biggest issue with all the injuries though is the lack of continuity. It's hard to develop any consistency when you don't know who you're going to have in the lineup on any given night. Add in the inconsistent nature of younger guys in general and you have the recipe for a lot of blown leads.

I do agree that the effect of losing guys like D and Z (and even Helm and Weiss, who are both good defensively) lead to an overall propensity to blow leads. But, it's not like we weren't doing it before the injuries. Most of those games we lost during the streak of overtime/shootout loses were blown leads as well, and we had our regulars in the lineup then.

But I don't want to make this about blowing leads, I already created that thread. I do think injuries have played a part, and when you combine that with the fact that it took this long to get the kids into the lineup AND the fact that our defense is severely underqualified you've got a recipe for games lost.

Next year, a healthy lineup, PLUS the kids, MINUS the old timers will be much better. Although without changes to the defense it still won't be near the top of the league in my opinion.

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Injuries played a factor no doubt. However, the problem with this team and if it misses the playoffs will be the 1 million shootouts they had that they lost. If they even won a third of the shootouts they lost they would be in the playoffs right now. Those points were huge and it's showing right now

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Okay, hate to throw the monkey wrench into the works here, but, these kids are producing at a really high level. Now I am not saying they have replaced Z and D, but they have soften the blow a lot. What you should ask yourself are the following:

#1 How much different would things be if you added D and Z, and subtracted Nyquist, and Sheahan? Because remember that on the perfectly healthy day roster neither of these guys made the cut.

#2 Will this team ever be perfectly healthy? Z is by far my favorite player in the league, but, he now has a pretty impressive history of injury. We can speculate on what this team would or could do, but is this team actually capable of being healthy anymore?

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I'll say this, for me it's not a matter of thinking that the team is sinking or that there aren't (some) reasonable excuses for (some) of the loses. I agree, the injuries tore this team up all year. BUT we're in every game we lose, tied in a lot of games we lose, and leading in almost a third of the games we lose. When you're leading by two goals going into the third you need to win more often then we do. It would be one thing if, because of injuries, we rarely got leads in game. It's another thing entirely to have leads so often and blow them. And you can't blame that all on injuries.

I wouldn't consider being competitive in many of our losses to be a bad thing (and for the record, we've actually had a lead at some point in 22 of our 40 losses). It's not like we're blowing big leads all the time. 6 times we've lost after leading by two goals at some point. 3 times when leading by two in the third. Of course it's something that needs improvement, but I think pretty far from our biggest issue.

Really, losing games where we're competitive suggests that we'd probably be winning a lot more if we were healthy. If we were getting blown out all the time I'd be inclined to think being healthy wouldn't help.

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I wouldn't consider being competitive in many of our losses to be a bad thing (and for the record, we've actually had a lead at some point in 22 of our 40 losses). It's not like we're blowing big leads all the time. 6 times we've lost after leading by two goals at some point. 3 times when leading by two in the third. Of course it's something that needs improvement, but I think pretty far from our biggest issue.

Really, losing games where we're competitive suggests that we'd probably be winning a lot more if we were healthy. If we were getting blown out all the time I'd be inclined to think being healthy wouldn't help.

Agreed, I definitely don't think that being competitive is bad. Although after re-reading what I typed I understand why it would look that way. I suppose my point was, injuries or no, if you can take leads in games then you should be able to win games (especially with multiple goal leads). We should be winning more with the lineup we've currently got. Sure we'd win more with D and Z, but this lineup has shown it can compete too. I just wish it was competing a bit more successfully after 60 minutes.

But then I have to remind myself that even when we didn't have all these injuries we were still blowing leads. So maybe it's a product of something else. While I'm no expert, my guess is that a combination of a healthy D, Z, Weiss, Ericsson, PLUS the infusion of the kids, PLUS a little work on the back end is probably the recipe for success...but I don't know.

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Okay, hate to throw the monkey wrench into the works here, but, these kids are producing at a really high level. Now I am not saying they have replaced Z and D, but they have soften the blow a lot. What you should ask yourself are the following:

#1 How much different would things be if you added D and Z, and subtracted Nyquist, and Sheahan? Because remember that on the perfectly healthy day roster neither of these guys made the cut.

#2 Will this team ever be perfectly healthy? Z is by far my favorite player in the league, but, he now has a pretty impressive history of injury. We can speculate on what this team would or could do, but is this team actually capable of being healthy anymore?

Why would you subtract Nyquist? The only reason he was in GR as long as he was is because Holland overestimated his ability to trade someone. And yes, they absolutely would be better with Datsyuk or Zetterberg over Sheahan.

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Okay, hate to throw the monkey wrench into the works here, but, these kids are producing at a really high level. Now I am not saying they have replaced Z and D, but they have soften the blow a lot. What you should ask yourself are the following:

#1 How much different would things be if you added D and Z, and subtracted Nyquist, and Sheahan? Because remember that on the perfectly healthy day roster neither of these guys made the cut.

#2 Will this team ever be perfectly healthy? Z is by far my favorite player in the league, but, he now has a pretty impressive history of injury. We can speculate on what this team would or could do, but is this team actually capable of being healthy anymore?

They may have started the season this way, but after a month or two of all of us complaining, Babcock DID scratch Cleary and Bert, and the team DID waive Sammy. Z, D, Nyquist and Sheahan have all been in the lineup at the same time this season, so it is not a matter of either/or.

People get mad at Babcock/Holland for the opening day roster - understandably - but no one ever mentions how the old guys got scratched/waived in favor of the youngsters once they got their chance. People make mistakes - even coaches - and are allowed to correct those mistakes. Babs hand might have been forced a bit by the injuries, but its not as though he is going to send Nyquist and Sheahan back to the minors once Cleary is healthy again....

kipwinger and Frozen-Man like this

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I think this year was a blessing in disguise (unless you see it this way), as it gave management a wake-up call regarding what these kids can do. Imagine a healthy forward corps next season of:

Z-Dats-Alfie
Mule-Weiss(Legwand if they move Weiss)-Nyquist
Tatar-Sheahan-Jurco
Miller-Helm-Abdelkader
Andersson, Glendening

Could be a few tweaks in there, obviously. Regardless, that's a fun group of forwards to watch, if you ask me.

Edited by Jesusberg

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I think this year was a blessing in disguise (unless you see it this way), as it gave management a wake-up call regarding what these kids can do. Imagine a healthy forward corps of:

Z-Dats-Alfie

Mule-Weiss-Nyquist

Tatar-Sheahan-Jurco

Miller-Helm-Abdelkader

Andersson, Glendening

Could be a few tweaks in there, obviously. Regardless, that's a fun group of forwards to watch, if you ask me.

I think you forgot legwand, unless this is a projection for next year and you don't think he'll resign

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I think you forgot legwand, unless this is a projection for next year and you don't think he'll resign

It is. I don't think they'll find any takers for Weiss' contract.

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Why would you subtract Nyquist? The only reason he was in GR as long as he was is because Holland overestimated his ability to trade someone. And yes, they absolutely would be better with Datsyuk or Zetterberg over Sheahan.

It's really hard to say that they would be better with Datsyuk or Zetterberg, my point being that since we don't have access to a world where Z and D were healthy, it's impossible to say that the team would be in a better position or not.

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It's really hard to say that they would be better with Datsyuk or Zetterberg, my point being that since we don't have access to a world where Z and D were healthy, it's impossible to say that the team would be in a better position or not.

That's like saying it's impossible to say whether life without one of your arms would be good or bad because it hasn't happened. Sure, but you can speculate with a pretty high degree of logical validity. Datsyuk and Zetterberg are two of the best players in the world. It's always better to have them than not have them...just like both your arms.

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It's really hard to say that they would be better with Datsyuk or Zetterberg, my point being that since we don't have access to a world where Z and D were healthy, it's impossible to say that the team would be in a better position or not.

Now you're just arguing for the sake of arguing.

wingedominance13 and kipwinger like this

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Great idea for a thread, Dickie. I've been as pessimistic about our playoff hopes as many on this forum, but the negativity was really starting to bum me out. This is refreshing - and astute.

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I'll say this, for me it's not a matter of thinking that the team is sinking or that there aren't (some) reasonable excuses for (some) of the loses. I agree, the injuries tore this team up all year. BUT we're in every game we lose, tied in a lot of games we lose, and leading in almost a third of the games we lose. When you're leading by two goals going into the third you need to win more often then we do. It would be one thing if, because of injuries, we rarely got leads in game. It's another thing entirely to have leads so often and blow them. And you can't blame that all on injuries.

But you can blame that on having a lot of inexperience in the lineup. Opponents down by a goal or 2 and turn things up a notch or two? It will lead to rookies making mistakes. Not having guys like Datsyuk and Zetterberg around in these situations hurt. But going forward, this team will be a lot better off for it. Even our team defense will be a lot better when you have world class players like Pasha and Hank helping out.

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But you can blame that on having a lot of inexperience in the lineup. Opponents down by a goal or 2 and turn things up a notch or two? It will lead to rookies making mistakes. Not having guys like Datsyuk and Zetterberg around in these situations hurt. But going forward, this team will be a lot better off for it. Even our team defense will be a lot better when you have world class players like Pasha and Hank helping out.

I definitely agree with this 100%.

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