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Ovechkin and ES


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#21 MabusIncarnate

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Posted 31 March 2014 - 04:13 PM

Teams are going to learn to keep him out of that left circle in front of the net during the PP and he'll begin to flop a little bit. As a fan, and I don't watch Caps a lot, it's obvious to me where Ovie is gonna be on the ice during a PP and that they are going to try to feed him for the one timer. I'm not sure why more teams haven't realized this and kept a defender directly on him on that area of the ice, he's good for 30+ goals from that spot per season. 


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#22 Son of a Wing

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Posted 31 March 2014 - 05:08 PM

Teams are going to learn to keep him out of that left circle in front of the net during the PP and he'll begin to flop a little bit. As a fan, and I don't watch Caps a lot, it's obvious to me where Ovie is gonna be on the ice during a PP and that they are going to try to feed him for the one timer. I'm not sure why more teams haven't realized this and kept a defender directly on him on that area of the ice, he's good for 30+ goals from that spot per season. 

 

Because that would open up even more space for Backstrom.  If there's one guy in the league you don't give space...it's Backstrom.


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#23 kipwinger

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Posted 31 March 2014 - 05:47 PM

There's no way to guard him because of his shot.  Every year everyone predicts the downfall of Ovie and it doesn't happen.  When you can one time the puck like he does you'll always get your goals. 


GMRwings:  "Well, in other civilized countries, 16 years old isn't considered underage.  For instance, I believe the age of consent is 16 in Canada.  There's some US states where it's 16 as well.  

 

Get off the high horse.  Not like she was 10."

 

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#24 wingedominance13

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Posted 31 March 2014 - 05:53 PM

There's no way to guard him because of his shot.  Every year everyone predicts the downfall of Ovie and it doesn't happen.  When you can one time the puck like he does you'll always get your goals. 

Agreed. I have no doubt he will always score in this league. I firmly believe until he plays a two way game he won't ever win a cup. He is paid to much money and it handicaps a team to put together a SC roster (so unless the cap goes wayyy up) 



#25 DeGraa55

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Posted 31 March 2014 - 06:13 PM

Agreed. I have no doubt he will always score in this league. I firmly believe until he plays a two way game he won't ever win a cup. He is paid to much money and it handicaps a team to put together a SC roster (so unless the cap goes wayyy up) 


It's not just his contract they need a few better players. His cap hit is only about1.5m then what it should be....whereas the wings have about 10m tied up in useless players.

The difference is winnin teams have a complete team...Washington does not.

#26 Richdg

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Posted 31 March 2014 - 09:58 PM

LOL. Why would anyone want a 27 year old RW that scores 45+ goals per year and is good for 200 hits per year. blindness by some is funny. Praising backstrom over Ovie? really? I would take Ovie every day over backstrom. Not even close. Go do a google search for Backstrom struggling to score. There have been stories about it every year he has been in the league. Backstrom is -19 BTW, so it isn't an ovie thing. Washington has a terrible backend other than Carlson.

Now if one wants to ralk about how ovie is used, that is a worth while debate. he is told to find a good shooting spot and stay there. To be a force in the offensive zone. That is what he does.

Some of us are old enough remember when Stevie Y didn't play D either. He was told to score and did. it wasn't until Bowman
threatened to trade him that the captain learned to play D.


Edited by Richdg, 31 March 2014 - 09:59 PM.


#27 frankgrimes

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Posted 31 March 2014 - 10:05 PM

LOL. Why would anyone want a 27 year old RW that scores 45+ goals per year and is good for 200 hits per year. blindness by some is funny. Praising backstrom over Ovie? really? I would take Ovie every day over backstrom. Not even close. Go do a google search for Backstrom struggling to score. There have been stories about it every year he has been in the league. Backstrom is -19 BTW, so it isn't an ovie thing. Washington has a terrible backend other than Carlson.
Now if one wants to ralk about how ovie is used, that is a worth while debate. he is told to find a good shooting spot and stay there. To be a force in the offensive zone. That is what he does.
Some of us are old enough remember when Stevie Y didn't play D either. He was told to score and did. it wasn't until Bowman
threatened to trade him that the captain learned to play D.


Y is an all-time great OV is a guy that can put a team over the top but not the guy to put a team on his shoulders like guys Ala Crosby, Towed Y, Bergeron and our own Nyquist are able to do.

I would take Kopitar 100 out of 100 times over him same goes for Bergeron Callahan

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#28 LAWings

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Posted 31 March 2014 - 10:09 PM

LOL. Why would anyone want a 27 year old RW that scores 45+ goals per year and is good for 200 hits per year. blindness by some is funny. Praising backstrom over Ovie? really? I would take Ovie every day over backstrom. Not even close. Go do a google search for Backstrom struggling to score. There have been stories about it every year he has been in the league. Backstrom is -19 BTW, so it isn't an ovie thing. Washington has a terrible backend other than Carlson.

Now if one wants to ralk about how ovie is used, that is a worth while debate. he is told to find a good shooting spot and stay there. To be a force in the offensive zone. That is what he does.

Some of us are old enough remember when Stevie Y didn't play D either. He was told to score and did. it wasn't until Bowman
threatened to trade him that the captain learned to play D.

 

This is what makes Datsyuk so special amongst Russian forwards, his ability to play both ends of the ice is second to none.  It will take a special kind of Russian in the NHL to be Captain and lead his team to a Stanley Cup.  Dats is really the only one that could do it, we saw his level of play at the Olympics on one leg, best player on the Russian bench. 

 

Ovie is going to need to go through a transformation as you pointed out like Stevie Y did if he wants to get to the promised land.



#29 miksteri

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Posted 31 March 2014 - 11:46 PM

Wasnt Bures tactics similar to Ovies? both were hanging around the blueline waiting for a pass?



#30 sibiriak

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Posted 01 April 2014 - 09:39 AM

Wasnt Bures tactics similar to Ovies? both were hanging around the blueline waiting for a pass?

After he went to play for Florida, yes, pretty much. They weren't a threat to make the playoffs, so Bure got his 50-60 goals a year, having nothing else to play for.

When he was in Vancouver in the beginning of his career, he was a bit more of a complete player. Not a Selke candidate even then, though :)



#31 VM1138

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Posted 01 April 2014 - 10:57 AM

Every team needs a high scoring floater. Ovechkin is a complementary player, not the guy to hoist the team on his shoulders.
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#32 kipwinger

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Posted 01 April 2014 - 12:22 PM

Every team needs a high scoring floater. Ovechkin is a complementary player, not the guy to hoist the team on his shoulders.

 

I think you're taking it a little far here.  Ovechkin has carried that team on his back into the playoffs many times in his career.  While there he's averaging more than a point per game. 

 

You're probably the only person in the history of hockey to call an 8 time all-star, three time league MVP, one time scoring leader, three time goal leader, and rookie of the year a "complimentary player". 

 

Alex doesn't play defense, I get it.  But to suggest he hasn't carried that team on his back for every second of the limited success they've had is silly.  Particularly when he's never ever had a quality goaltender, defenseman, or coach. 


GMRwings:  "Well, in other civilized countries, 16 years old isn't considered underage.  For instance, I believe the age of consent is 16 in Canada.  There's some US states where it's 16 as well.  

 

Get off the high horse.  Not like she was 10."

 

"Some girls are 17 even though they look 25."

 

 


#33 VM1138

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Posted 01 April 2014 - 12:43 PM

How many of those awards are heavily inflated by his scoring? He's a competitor for sure but I don't think I'd make him a captain.
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#34 kipwinger

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Posted 01 April 2014 - 12:56 PM

How many of those awards are heavily inflated by his scoring? He's a competitor for sure but I don't think I'd make him a captain.

 

But that's not what you said.  You called him a complimentary player...and he's not.  I'd agree that there are better players in the league, or guys that are better leaders  or whatever.  But to say he's a complimentary player is silly.  He had four 100 points seasons while being the primary offensive threat on his team. 

 

You're saying he's not "the guy" because he doesn't play defense...and he doesn't, I agree.  But lots of guys don't play defense yet still get credit for being first rate players.  Certainly nobody would call Kessel, Vanek, Kane, etc. complimentary players.  But for whatever reason it's popular these days to downplay just how good Ovechkin is...even if he could be better.


GMRwings:  "Well, in other civilized countries, 16 years old isn't considered underage.  For instance, I believe the age of consent is 16 in Canada.  There's some US states where it's 16 as well.  

 

Get off the high horse.  Not like she was 10."

 

"Some girls are 17 even though they look 25."

 

 


#35 wings87

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Posted 01 April 2014 - 02:31 PM

Ovechkin isn't a bum in fact he's an elite scorer, but that's all he is. He's the biggest diver in the NHL, he doesn't play defense, and let's face it he sometimes doesn't even play offense, but he's always a threat to score. And I can only dream of the kind of production he would have with Pav as his center.

The guy is 28 years old and it's time he got his act together. Somebody needs to grab him by the collar, pull him aside and tell him bluntly that his overall play is not acceptable for a player with his abilities. I just don't think Washington has that veteran player who commands respect, a guy that can get into Ovechkin's face and set him straight. Nor do the Caps apparently have a coach who has the balls to call him out.

Ovie's scoring will get him to the HOF, but there will always be a, what if, attached to his name.

Edited by wings87, 01 April 2014 - 02:32 PM.

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#36 Z Winged Dangler

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Posted 01 April 2014 - 06:20 PM

I've always viewed him as an alternate reality Fedorov. What if Feds hadn't been drafted by the Wings, hadn't played under Bowman, hadn't played alongside a slew of future Hall of Famers across a slew of very deep Wings teams funded by Mike Ilitch and his whatever-it-takes mandate? Would he have become an Alex Ovechkin? Or, to flip it around, What if Ovechkin had been drafted (or, more realistically, somehow acquired via trade) by the Wings? Would he be what he is?

Instead of a league worst -34 he would be +34  :D


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#37 Richdg

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Posted 01 April 2014 - 07:31 PM

I understand that Ovie isn't a great defensive player. Most of your top goal scorers are not great defensive players. Did brett Hull even know where the defensive zone was? Shanny didn't play much d either, and we somehow managed to win 3 cups with him. On the other hand you have a great defensive c like datsyuk, but is he really a great scorer? No. Good yes, but not great.

Ovie has also changed postions 3 times now. When he first came into the NHL he was a LW. Then he moved to C, now he has been playing RW for the last 3 or 4 seasons. His best years to date were the 07/08 season through the 09/10 season. he had 112, 110, 109 points in those 3 years. Pretty damn good. Even then his +/- changed by 25 points per year.

What it really comes down to is, what does the coaching staff want from him. Do you want to take a 50 goal scorer and turn him into a 30 goal guy and improve his D? Tough one to answer. Most teams are looking for more O. Scoring in the NHL is down and trending further south.



#38 Playmaker

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Posted 02 April 2014 - 08:08 AM

I have a lot of mixed feelings on the subject.  On the one hand, I sometimes get frustrated that its expected that every single player has to be a defensive standout.  On the other hand, its never wracking watching some of the young guys who don't have the defensive prowess.

 

It used to be that guys were either defensive forwards and penalty killers or scorers.  I think Fedorov and Yzerman really changed the game in that respect in creating the "two way forward".  I agree too that the culture of the Red Wings rewarded guys for being defensive minded and didn't pressure them to put up numbers.



#39 Richdg

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Posted 02 April 2014 - 09:14 AM

Playmaker, this is something that changes in the NHL every 10 years or so. Look at the RW's. We didn't truly become a possession team until the mid 2000's. Now we are starting to change again. Yes there were some guys that played a great 2 way game before, but that wasn't the majority of the guys on the team.



#40 Son of a Wing

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Posted 02 April 2014 - 01:35 PM

Another pathetic backcheck from Ovi that leads directly to a goal.  It's not like they're fighting for a playoff spot or anything...


"The leader must never close the gap between himself and the group. If he does, he is no longer what he must be. He must walk a tightrope between the consent he must win and the control he must exert."
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When asked who won, Babcock said, “Well it doesn’t really matter as long as you don’t lose. It’s like going bear hunting, you take a slow guy with you in case the bear is hungry.”





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