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A plea to Holland.


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#21 Wingznut

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 03:28 AM

Not everyone I didn't...

 

 

Oh, I didn't say "everyone"... Just like not "everyone" is saying to get rid of Kindl and Lash.


Edited by Wingznut, 06 April 2014 - 03:28 AM.


#22 DickieDunn

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 07:07 AM

Kindl has the talent, but is inconsistent.  He's always been that way.  When he was in GR, he rarely looked like an AHL player.  One night he'd look like he needed to be a top 4 NHL guy, the next he'd look like he should be a 3rd pairing ECHL guy.  Lashoff doesn't have the skating ability or the hands to be an NHL regular in a puck possession system.  He might be better in a more dump and chase style, but even with that he's a solid #7 guy.

 

Sproul is NOT ready for the NHL.  He still makes too many defensive mistakes.  So does Ouellet.  I think both will end up being top 4 d-men, but not for another couple years.  Marchenko is the most NHL ready of the D prospects, but with him being hurt, I'd rather go with what they have.


Oh this young man has had a very trying rookie season, with the litigation, the notoriety, his subsequent deportation to Canada and that country's refusal to accept him, well, I guess that's more than most 21-year-olds can handle... Ogie Ogilthorpe!


#23 Wings_Toledo

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 09:04 AM

That was a brutal game by Kindl and Lashoff but I blame Babcock for continuing to put them out there after giving up a goal.  Especially with under six minutes left and down by 1 already.  The fact is that both of these guys need a better partner to cover for some of their mistakes, but there aren't really any better options until Ericsson comes back so they're forced to play together.



#24 Andy Pred 48

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 10:04 AM

I would re-call Nathan Paetsch and pair him with Smith on the 3rd when E is back. He is an elite skater and has vast experience. 

Def for the next 4 games, the Griffs are in their p/o we need 3 pts to make sure the game in Buffalo is a must win now.


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#25 DickieDunn

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 10:18 AM

I would re-call Nathan Paetsch and pair him with Smith on the 3rd when E is back. He is an elite skater and has vast experience. 

Def for the next 4 games, the Griffs are in their p/o we need 3 pts to make sure the game in Buffalo is a must win now.

 

There's a reason he's only played 167 NHL games at age 31.


Oh this young man has had a very trying rookie season, with the litigation, the notoriety, his subsequent deportation to Canada and that country's refusal to accept him, well, I guess that's more than most 21-year-olds can handle... Ogie Ogilthorpe!


#26 Dabura

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 11:03 AM

I'm happy we lost last night and in pathetic fashion. The team needed a kick in the collective balls. You can't play for five minutes and expect to win. Lesson learned and edge regained, I hope.

 

As for this topic...putting a call-up on the fourth line is different than putting one on the third pairing. Most teams are really pushing right now, which is why Kindl and Lashoff and Smith are being exposed the way they are. You throw Sproul into the fire right now and he'll likely be eaten alive. Probably ditto for Almqvist, though I have more faith in him than some do. Ouellet might be the safest choice, but, realistically, he's not gonna be that much better than Kindl or Lashoff. Basically, I'd only go this route if we've secured a playoff spot. Unfortunately, that's still very much up in the air.

 

I'd try simply limiting their ice, giving them only offensive zone starts, maybe doing some double-shifting so they get to play with Kronwall or DeKeyser. Then I'd trade Kindl in the summer. Lashoff probably has zero trade value, and he's the only big mean defensive defenseman we have, so I'd probably keep him around, though not necessarily on the big club.


Edited by Dabura, 06 April 2014 - 11:11 AM.

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#27 LeftWinger

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 11:04 AM

said it before and I'll say it again. We need two veteran defensemen to bridge this team before Ouellet and Sproul are ready in two years. Dump Kindl, go ahead a waive Lashoff and don't even let Quincey call you this summer.

 

Sign any two of Morris, Mitchell, Boyle, Orpik or Weaver. Bring up Marchenko to be #7.


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#28 Dabura

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 11:08 AM

What's up with Boyle? Is he testing the waters this summer?


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#29 darkmanx

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 11:18 AM

Would take Markov before Orpik and Weaver.



#30 LeftWinger

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 11:33 AM

ya, Markov too. My point being we need that solid vet defenders for two to three years while our young guns get their feet wet.

 

Ryan Miller also says he is testing the waters in July. Holland should throw his wad at him, then get rid of Jimmy. I know Jimmy will do better with better D in front of him, but you only get this one shot at that Elite goalie we sure could use. And I would be willing to bet he would love to come home and play with his brother. He would also have to be intrigued by the potential our young kids are showing. Who wouldn't want to be part of this team going forward? When the Wild miss the playoffs, Suter is going to ***** slap his wife for talking him out of signing in Detroit.


Edited by LeftWinger, 06 April 2014 - 11:37 AM.

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#31 wings87

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 11:39 AM

I'm happy we lost last night and in pathetic fashion. The team needed a kick in the collective balls. You can't play for five minutes and expect to win. Lesson learned and edge regained, I hope.

 

As for this topic...putting a call-up on the fourth line is different than putting one on the third pairing. Most teams are really pushing right now, which is why Kindl and Lashoff and Smith are being exposed the way they are. You throw Sproul into the fire right now and he'll likely be eaten alive. Probably ditto for Almqvist, though I have more faith in him than some do. Ouellet might be the safest choice, but, realistically, he's not gonna be that much better than Kindl or Lashoff. Basically, I'd only go this route if we've secured a playoff spot. Unfortunately, that's still very much up in the air.

 

I'd try simply limiting their ice, giving them only offensive zone starts, maybe doing some double-shifting so they get to play with Kronwall or DeKeyser. Then I'd trade Kindl in the summer. Lashoff probably has zero trade value, and he's the only big mean defensive defenseman we have, so I'd probably keep him around, though not necessarily on the big club.

 

I get what your saying, but here's where we disagree. Jurco and Sheahan haven't been guys that have been thrown onto the 4th line, these guys have been the teams 2nd line and have played tremendously; and I doubt very many people thought they were ready. This of course doesn't mean that the defensemen that could be brought up would have the same impact- but with all the injuries and Kindl and Lashoff struggling- why not bring in one and try? I think Nick and DD should play more down the stretch, but if Babs limits the 3rd pairings time too much; DD and Nick would have to play more and that might cause their play to suffer. 

 

There are no easy answers, but Lashoff and Kindl can't be on the ice together. If Holland isn't interested in bring up players from the AHL at the very least Babs needs to pair Lashoff and Kindl with Quincey and DD. Yes. I know that Quincey/Kindl or Quincey/Lashoff might be just as scary, but we can't leave that 3rd pairing the way it is now. 


Edited by wings87, 06 April 2014 - 11:43 AM.

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#32 LeftWinger

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 11:40 AM

How much better would this team be with Morris, Boyle, Marchenko and Miller over Kindl, Quincey, Lashoff and Howard? We have a chance this summer to make those exact changes...


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#33 Dabura

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 01:41 PM

I get what your saying, but here's where we disagree. Jurco and Sheahan haven't been guys that have been thrown onto the 4th line, these guys have been the teams 2nd line and have played tremendously; and I doubt very many people thought they were ready. This of course doesn't mean that the defensemen that could be brought up would have the same impact- but with all the injuries and Kindl and Lashoff struggling- why not bring in one and try? I think Nick and DD should play more down the stretch, but if Babs limits the 3rd pairings time too much; DD and Nick would have to play more and that might cause their play to suffer. 

 

There are no easy answers, but Lashoff and Kindl can't be on the ice together. If Holland isn't interested in bring up players from the AHL at the very least Babs needs to pair Lashoff and Kindl with Quincey and DD. Yes. I know that Quincey/Kindl or Quincey/Lashoff might be just as scary, but we can't leave that 3rd pairing the way it is now. 

 

If Kindl and Lashoff were singlehandedly blowing games every night, I'd be all for bringing up Ouellet. But, truth is, they've actually been pretty ok. I mean, think about it. Haven't we been winning? Haven't we beaten the likes of the Penguins and Bruins? Isn't it with Kindl and Lashoff playing pretty big minutes that we've surged back into the playoff picture? Sure, they cost us every night, but that's what third pairings do. They suck. They make you pull your hair out. They take ten years off your life. That Max Pacioretty terrorizes them one night in Montreal doesn't necessarily mean anything has gone terribly wrong. (The Habs have scored 12 goals in two games.)

 

The real issue is our top four. The biggest knock against Kronwall is that he's not what we need and expect him to be, which is an undisputed Norris candidate who can play 90 minutes a night and go +147 on the season. Ericsson's the next best thing, and he's out for the rest of forever. DeKeyser's a rookie. Quincey is Quincey. Smith is Smith. All of which means Kindl and Lashoff need to do some heavy lifting. Fortunately, they've mostly gotten the job done, showing Babs that he doesn't have to break in a kid with no NHL experience with two weeks to go in the regular season and our postseason streak hanging in the balance.


Don't Toews me, bro!


#34 wings_fanatic

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 01:47 PM

You sir are wrong. Kindl is that awful as we're all saying. Remember in the Boston game kindl was skating the puck out of our zone and he had all the time in the world but he skated right into a Boston player who then stole the puck and went in alone. That same game kindl made a bad pinch as usual and Boston came in on a 2 on 1. Instead of turning around to hustle back to help, kindl skated backwards the whole way back as if he didn't even realize it was a 2 on 1 behind him. He is flat out awful and I see no value in him for this team. He is awful defensively and smith is light years better then him offensively. Kindl needs to go this off season.

#35 VM1138

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 01:54 PM

I like Howard and don't think we NEED to swap goalies, but the idea of Miller joining us is tantalizing. I've always imagined him playing here later in his career. Joining his brother on a rising team might give Holland the storyline motivation he needs to be really aggressive in building a Cup team.
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#36 wings_fanatic

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 01:58 PM

I like Howard and don't think we NEED to swap goalies, but the idea of Miller joining us is tantalizing. I've always imagined him playing here later in his career. Joining his brother on a rising team might give Holland the storyline motivation he needs to be really aggressive in building a Cup team.


If miller is indeed testing free agency then I have a hard time to believe he won't inquire about Detroit. He grew up here, and his brother plays here so the pieces are easy to put together.

Also I just read on the fourth period that jake Gardiner could be out of Toronto as they want to change up their blue line this off season.... I think he would be a GREAT addition to the red wings! Kronner- E, Gardiner- Dekeyser

#37 Dabura

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 02:04 PM

I just don't see the wisdom in bringing in a Ryan Sproul right now. Isn't that kind of the opposite of what we want? Isn't the whole problem with our D corps that it's so young and inexperienced and jumpy and offense-minded and prone to making stupid mistakes? With all but one of our remaining games being on the road, the opposition's strategy would be pretty simple: get [big guns] on the ice against the new kid at every opportunity.


Don't Toews me, bro!


#38 Z Winged Dangler

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 02:17 PM

I just don't see the wisdom in bringing in a Ryan Sproul right now. Isn't that kind of the opposite of what we want? Isn't the whole problem with our D corps that it's so young and inexperienced and jumpy and offense-minded and prone to making stupid mistakes? With all but one of our remaining games being on the road, the opposition's strategy would be pretty simple: get [big guns] on the ice against the new kid at every opportunity.

Sproul would have to be on a line with a really good defensive Dman at this point.  I think that Ouellet would be great right now.  His hockey IQ is off the charts.  Let's put it this way, Holland has a lot of choices this summer as to who can, will, or should be on the team.  He better not mess it up.


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#39 MasterPavel

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 02:23 PM

If miller is indeed testing free agency then I have a hard time to believe he won't inquire about Detroit. He grew up here, and his brother plays here so the pieces are easy to put together.

Also I just read on the fourth period that jake Gardiner could be out of Toronto as they want to change up their blue line this off season.... I think he would be a GREAT addition to the red wings! Kronner- E, Gardiner- Dekeyser


Miller will end up on the west coast. His wife is an actress and wants the family together.

Yes to Jake Gardiner

#40 wings87

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 02:52 PM

If Kindl and Lashoff were singlehandedly blowing games every night, I'd be all for bringing up Ouellet. But, truth is, they've actually been pretty ok. I mean, think about it. Haven't we been winning? Haven't we beaten the likes of the Penguins and Bruins? Isn't it with Kindl and Lashoff playing pretty big minutes that we've surged back into the playoff picture? Sure, they cost us every night, but that's what third pairings do. They suck. They make you pull your hair out. They take ten years off your life. That Max Pacioretty terrorizes them one night in Montreal doesn't necessarily mean anything has gone terribly wrong. (The Habs have scored 12 goals in two games.)
 
The real issue is our top four. The biggest knock against Kronwall is that he's not what we need and expect him to be, which is an undisputed Norris candidate who can play 90 minutes a night and go +147 on the season. Ericsson's the next best thing, and he's out for the rest of forever. DeKeyser's a rookie. Quincey is Quincey. Smith is Smith. All of which means Kindl and Lashoff need to do some heavy lifting. Fortunately, they've mostly gotten the job done, showing Babs that he doesn't have to break in a kid with no NHL experience with two weeks to go in the regular season and our postseason streak hanging in the balance.

When you win-flaws are glanced over, and when you lose, flaws are magnified. When the Wings were winning it was great, but that didn't mean that all their problems magically disappeared. As far as the Habs game, that loss was a total team effort and not just the 3rd paintings fault. It's just that when Lashoff and Kindl are on the ice together it's a goal waiting to happen.

The top 4 is what it is, and it won't get any better until the offseason.

I just don't see the wisdom in bringing in a Ryan Sproul right now. Isn't that kind of the opposite of what we want? Isn't the whole problem with our D corps that it's so young and inexperienced and jumpy and offense-minded and prone to making stupid mistakes? With all but one of our remaining games being on the road, the opposition's strategy would be pretty simple: get [big guns] on the ice against the new kid at every opportunity.

I don't think the issue is that they are young and inexperienced, since half our team is young and inexperienced. The issue is that they have been irresponsible with the puck, and having them on the ice at the same time is a nightmare.

Isn't that the strategy now anyway? Get the best players on the ice against the 3rd pairing.

Edited by wings87, 06 April 2014 - 02:54 PM.

"He usually shows up when the game is over and tries to be the hero. Puts his cape on and goes and flies out there." ~ Franzen 






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