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A plea to Holland.


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#101 lwing

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Posted 26 April 2014 - 06:09 PM

Please for the love of all that is good and holy, get rid of Lashoff and Kindl. If not both then at least one of them. The pairing of Kindl and Lashoff is a goal waiting to happen. We've had amazing success inserting young forwards into the lineup, why not try a defenseman?

I don't care if it's Almqvist, or Sproul, or whoever, nor do I care if management thinks they are ready. No one thought Jurco, Glendening, or Sheahen were ready either; and they are doing just fine.

So Holland do us all a favor and bring in some fresh young blood.

Including in his own position.



#102 VM1138

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Posted 26 April 2014 - 06:52 PM

I think we all got carried away with the youth movement. It failed miserably when it mattered. I'd rather keep the kids that are up, surround them with capable vets and return to a one or two rookies a year tradition. We've got so many kids coming up we will have to trade some anyway. Sent from my ADR6350 using Tapatalk 2
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#103 evilmrt

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Posted 26 April 2014 - 06:57 PM

Hey Kenny, can you retire or promote yourself or something? We're sick of this s***e

#104 joshy207

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Posted 26 April 2014 - 07:47 PM

I think we all got carried away with the youth movement. It failed miserably when it mattered. I'd rather keep the kids that are up, surround them with capable vets and return to a one or two rookies a year tradition. We've got so many kids coming up we will have to trade some anyway. Sent from my ADR6350 using Tapatalk 2

 

Young teams need to learn how to win.  This year's active playoff roster only had 5 guys who played in the '08 Cup finals--Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Franzen, Helm, and Kronwall.  The young players have gained invaluable experience over the past season or two, they'll continue to grow and improve, and I think we're looking at a very, very strong Red Wings team in 2 years if they continue to mix in the youth and stop bringing back veterans who have nothing left in the tank.  Adding a good veteran on D would help also.

The young guys haven't "failed miserably".  This team wasn't all that good, wasn't supposed to beat the #1 team in the NHL, and barely made the playoffs, aided by the epic collapse of 2 other teams.  The playoffs are a different animal, it takes time for them to be able to figure it out.  Look at Datsyuk... 3 goals in his first 42 playoff games!  He had 3 this series alone.  At least now, they've gone through that experience in 2014 rather than 2015 or 2016, as the organization had originally planned.

This is the new course.  The future has already begun.



#105 pucktividi

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Posted 26 April 2014 - 08:17 PM

I think we all got carried away with the youth movement. It failed miserably when it mattered. 

Much better players and lines got owned by the same Bruins in the past,so don't be too harsh on our young players.At least they carried us in the Playoffs.



#106 VM1138

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Posted 26 April 2014 - 08:18 PM

I'm not saying they'll never be good. But I don't like wait and see approaches in sports. You just waste years doing that. They will learn, but we won't become a stronger team by adding even more rookies. That's the Edmonton route. Some people want to just promote from within and I think that's a bad idea. It relies on too many flaky "ifs". Nyquist and Tatar will be beasts one day, but until then they need bonafide prime year players to bridge the learning gap years. Players don't learn from losing. Datsyuk and Zetterberg didn't learn by sucking. They learned because the team struggled but had reams of talent. That's all I mean. We need to keep trying to win to avoid complacency and installing a mediocre or losing culture. See: all the other perennial middling teams. Sent from my ADR6350 using Tapatalk 2
Check out my short e-book on the Red Wings' 1937 Stanley Cup championship entitled: "Nothing Could Keep 'Em Down." Please download it from my profile at Smashwords: https://www.smashwor...ile/view/victor

New e-book: The Spanish-American War: A Brief History. Relatively short, introductory read for casual history buffs and people who want to learn more about a forgotten war that changed America. Available at BN.com, Smashwords, Kobo, and Diesel E-Books right now. Same link as above.

#107 roboturner

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Posted 26 April 2014 - 08:21 PM

I understand that the kids didn't do much this postseason, but neither did the likes of Cleary (this was supposed to be his time to shine), Sammy, Tootoo, Bert (did contribute a single screen though).

I do like the sound of having a select few capable vets, though I wouldn't get too carried away there either. Capable vets can quickly turn into useless vets of the aforementioned variety.


This might be getting a little heated. Just know I don't hate any of you guys.

 

That doesn't mean that I respect ideas & opinions. Some ideas & opinions are ridiculous.

 

In fact, if you confront my ideas & opinions, that will lead to a discussion. (We're on a discussion board after all. Don't forget that!)

 

  :bye1: :bye1: :bye1: :bye1: :bye1: :bye1: :bye1: :bye1:


#108 joesuffP

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Posted 26 April 2014 - 08:29 PM

Holland has signed Ian White, Kyle Quincey, Carlo Coliacovo, Brian Lashoff since Lidstrom, Rafalski and Stuart have left. That's sad. Just a complete failure. Who is he going to sign once Franzen, Datsyuk and Zetterberg leave. This really scares me. Holland hasn't made a single good deal in 3 years

#109 pucktividi

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Posted 26 April 2014 - 08:52 PM

I'm not saying they'll never be good. But I don't like wait and see approaches in sports. You just waste years doing that. They will learn, but we won't become a stronger team by adding even more rookies. That's the Edmonton route. Some people want to just promote from within and I think that's a bad idea. It relies on too many flaky "ifs". Nyquist and Tatar will be beasts one day, but until then they need bonafide prime year players to bridge the learning gap years. Players don't learn from losing. Datsyuk and Zetterberg didn't learn by sucking. They learned because the team struggled but had reams of talent. That's all I mean. We need to keep trying to win to avoid complacency and installing a mediocre or losing culture. See: all the other perennial middling teams. Sent from my ADR6350 using Tapatalk 2

I'm sorry,but instant solutions are one of the reason that brought us here.Instead of signing/trading for elite players,we've signed a dozen of veteran players since we've won the Cup and here we go our 2014 Red Wings team...declining stars with injury problems and inexperienced kids who simply can't beat a powerhouse B's team.



#110 Shinzaki

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Posted 26 April 2014 - 09:08 PM

Are we over-ripening the kids until they rot on the farm or are we counting on them too soon?   I'm getting confused.....



#111 Richdg

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Posted 26 April 2014 - 09:17 PM

shin, both. prior to this yer we left guys in the minors to long. But now we have major holes are are rushing guys-at least in theory. GR has largely been depleted of NHL ready talent. The guys that are left behind need more time. Yes Sproul and Ouellett should be good in time, but they need more time.



#112 Shinzaki

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Posted 26 April 2014 - 09:30 PM

I'm watching GR online right ow...with Janmark, Pulks, Atahnasiou, Sproul, Nestrasil, Jensen, Mrazek...we have some really talented kids.  Nestrasil  has really picked it up and oh...Janmark just mad a great drive to the net and feed for a goal....I have zero problem with giving Marchenko, Almquist, Sproul and Oulett   a chance next fall to unseat that abysmal 3rd defense pairing we rolled out against the Bruins



#113 haroldsnepsts

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Posted 26 April 2014 - 10:28 PM

Holland has signed Ian White, Kyle Quincey, Carlo Coliacovo, Brian Lashoff since Lidstrom, Rafalski and Stuart have left. That's sad. Just a complete failure. Who is he going to sign once Franzen, Datsyuk and Zetterberg leave. This really scares me. Holland hasn't made a single good deal in 3 years

 

Lashoff was signed in 2008 as an undrafted minor leaguer.  He's 23 years old and has 100 NHL games in his career.  

 

I don't know that he'll ever become a solid bottom pairing guy, but I wouldn't include him with White, Quincey and Cola.   He was basically someone Holland picked up for chump change to see if he'd become an NHL defenseman. 



#114 joesuffP

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Posted 26 April 2014 - 10:43 PM

 
Lashoff was signed in 2008 as an undrafted minor leaguer.  He's 23 years old and has 100 NHL games in his career.  
 
I don't know that he'll ever become a solid bottom pairing guy, but I wouldn't include him with White, Quincey and Cola.   He was basically someone Holland picked up for chump change to see if he'd become an NHL defenseman. 


Still holland hasn't made a single good deal in 3 years. He appears to have no plan for the future for our forwards and has already failed our future blue line. Plus he has overpaid our homegrown guys. Getting over market value to stay with the team that drafted you and ensuring a mediocre squad for years to come. If we didn't have good scouting and drafting we would be the buffalo sabres.

#115 DeGraa55

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Posted 26 April 2014 - 10:45 PM

Still holland hasn't made a single good deal in 3 years. He appears to have no plan for the future for our forwards and has already failed our future blue line. Plus he has overpaid our homegrown guys. Getting over market value to stay with the team that drafted you and ensuring a mediocre squad for years to come. If we didn't have good scouting and drafting we would be the buffalo sabres.


Actually our defense is fine. It's our forwards that are the issue. A declining dat And Z as well as young guys like nyquist can't carry this team by themselfs. More is needed.

Edited by DeGraa55, 26 April 2014 - 10:46 PM.


#116 PavelValerievichDatsyuk

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Posted 26 April 2014 - 10:51 PM

Holland has signed Ian White, Kyle Quincey, Carlo Coliacovo, Brian Lashoff since Lidstrom, Rafalski and Stuart have left. That's sad. Just a complete failure. Who is he going to sign once Franzen, Datsyuk and Zetterberg leave. This really scares me. Holland hasn't made a single good deal in 3 years

Conveniently Forgot Dekeyeser? Plus, Holland has said that the organization is building from the draft: We've had Smith grab a spot, Sproul and Oulette, Marchenko on deck. That sounds like a pretty good plan for the future



#117 joshy207

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Posted 26 April 2014 - 11:13 PM

I'm not saying they'll never be good. But I don't like wait and see approaches in sports. You just waste years doing that. They will learn, but we won't become a stronger team by adding even more rookies. That's the Edmonton route. Some people want to just promote from within and I think that's a bad idea. It relies on too many flaky "ifs". Nyquist and Tatar will be beasts one day, but until then they need bonafide prime year players to bridge the learning gap years. Players don't learn from losing. Datsyuk and Zetterberg didn't learn by sucking. They learned because the team struggled but had reams of talent. That's all I mean. We need to keep trying to win to avoid complacency and installing a mediocre or losing culture. See: all the other perennial middling teams. Sent from my ADR6350 using Tapatalk 2

 

Here are the players between the ages of 25 and 31:  Abdelkader, Helm, Kindl, Miller, Quincey, Ericsson, Eaves, Weiss, Emmerton, Tootoo, Gustavsson, and Howard.  ZERO top-6 forwards, 3 bottom-6 forwards, 2 top-4 defensemen, 2 goalies, an injured free-agent signee, and 3 guys we've exiled to the minors or traded away.  Not exactly a core to build a team around.  There's a generation gap here--all the top players are aging, this group in the middle, and some young up-and-comers who aren't quite ready for playoff success yet.  This is the price the Wings are paying for years of success, low draft positions, and trading away first-round picks.  Pretty much every good team is led by guys between 25 and 31.  Detroit is led by guys over 31.  They'll either have to trade for top players in that age group or ride out the youth movement for another year or two before reaping the benefits of it.



#118 joshy207

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Posted 26 April 2014 - 11:30 PM

I'm not saying they'll never be good. But I don't like wait and see approaches in sports. You just waste years doing that. They will learn, but we won't become a stronger team by adding even more rookies. That's the Edmonton route. Some people want to just promote from within and I think that's a bad idea. It relies on too many flaky "ifs". Nyquist and Tatar will be beasts one day, but until then they need bonafide prime year players to bridge the learning gap years. Players don't learn from losing. Datsyuk and Zetterberg didn't learn by sucking. They learned because the team struggled but had reams of talent. That's all I mean. We need to keep trying to win to avoid complacency and installing a mediocre or losing culture. See: all the other perennial middling teams. Sent from my ADR6350 using Tapatalk 2

 

Maybe individual players don't learn from losing, but teams do.  Look at the Wings of 20 years ago... after great regular seasons, they lost early to Toronto in '93, San Jose in '94, then got swept in the final by New Jersey in '95 even though they were far better on paper... came back only to lose to Colorado in '96 before finally winning it all in '97 and '98.

And didn't this team struggle but have a lot of talent?  So didn't the young guys learn this year?  Yes, they were outclassed by Boston in the first round, but Boston is probably the best team in the league.  Won the President's Trophy, not by accident.  They now see how they have to step up their game.  I don't see the Wings sucking if they continue the youth movement, I see them being 2 years away from strong contention.

I am not calling for the young defensemen to be called up next year, at least not more than one at a time for some evaluation and experience.  I want to see all the forwards stay, see Mantha get a legit chance to make the team out of camp, and see him, Pulkkinen, Athanasiou, etc, get short callups.  I'm not sold on Ferraro and Callahan though, if they are let go, I wouldn't be too disappointed.  I think Mrazek is our best option for backup goalie next year, as I see him taking over the #1 job by the start of the 16/17 season, if not during the 15/16 season.  I don't want to see a handful of vets re-signed or brought in and take icetime away from the players who are already here, who have proven they deserve full-time roster spots.  (The exception being a prime-age veteran defenseman, the blueline can use some immediate help.)  I want to see a little space left open for callups.  This is what I mean by continuing the youth movement, not just gassing every vet and bringing in rookies who aren't ready and playing them full-time.



#119 wings87

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Posted 27 April 2014 - 12:10 AM

Actually our defense is fine. It's our forwards that are the issue. A declining dat And Z as well as young guys like nyquist can't carry this team by themselfs. More is needed.

 

I couldn't disagree with you more. We can get by with our offense, the D is a total disaster.  


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#120 ShanahanMan

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Posted 27 April 2014 - 12:55 AM

 

I couldn't disagree with you more. We can get by with our offense, the D is a total disaster.  

 

I guess you're alright with 6 goals in 5 playoff games then. 




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