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Nyquist since Datsyuk's Return & Unnatural NHL Development

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#21 Nev



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Posted 10 April 2014 - 12:13 PM

You also have to realize he is getting a lot of press around the league so opposing players are going to be paying much mor attention to him.


Exactly, he's  had so many goals stripping the D at our blue line and streaking away, that they are going to be much more careful when he is on the ice now.


Not to mention, he had more than a few fluky goals in that streak.

"If I can be totally honest, it's not a lot of guys you get impressed by. Actually, it's no one else but him. From the bench, to see what move he makes -- you're like, 'I wish I could do that.' Sometimes you sit on the bench and just think, 'wow,' and you look over to the other bench and they sit there and shake their heads, too. He has great, great skills. I'm probably not going to play with another player who has the kind of skills he has." Mikael Samuelsson on Pavel Datsyuk

#22 nyqvististhefuture



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Posted 10 April 2014 - 12:14 PM

Sheahan, Tatar, Nyquist, Jurco, Glendening, Dekeyser... Holy crap, who's of thought we'd be making the playoffs with 6 MF'ing rookies on this team?
I think that Pulk's development is what made Jarnkrok tradable.  Both super, super talents, but Pulk, like Dab's said, is a RH sniper which we lack.  He has exemptions through next season and by time 2015 hits, he will be more than ready to step in.
I just hope, if Weiss isn't traded, he doesn't mind moving to wing, because our 4 centers right now are great.  Legwand, Datsyuk, Sheahan and Glenny....nice! Helm looks good on the wing as well, less pressure on him and he can concentrate on developing that scoring touch!

Unfortunately I don't think anybody would want weiss ... I don't see how we can keep both weiss and legwand next 3 years ... Like someone said pulkkinen needs to get some games in next season ... Mantha will be here in 2 yrs 3 max

#23 LAWings


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Posted 10 April 2014 - 12:18 PM

gcom007, I noticed this too.  Although Nyquist is scoring on 20% of his shots, he has to cool off and come back down to earth.  But the timing of when Datsyk returns is odd.  Since Dats has returned the play style on the team has changed, it's slower, and not as explosive or even exciting to watch as when he was out and the kids took over.


The last 3 games have been, well, boring (I missed half the Mtl game tho) and I don't see the kids storming off like before.  Why?

Well, I think it's called the Datsyuk effect (I was going to start a thread on this but you already did).  Does anyone remember during the HBO series when the younger guys were out to dinner and they were talking and Datsyuk came up, how awed they were of him and someone said, "just get him the puck".  I thought this was bad thinking and it's going to continually hamper our chances moving forward if everyone feels they have to get Dats the puck or get him in on the play rather then just playing their game.


When the kids play their game we see what they can do.  If we interject new Datsyukian chemistry they are no longer playing their game but watching what he is doing and letting him QB everything.  I see this as a big problem.


Tatar seems to be in a world of his own and is continually finding holes and making things happen on his own tho.


So yes, the chemistry has changed with Dats back, I think we got slower.  I also don't have any solutions, this is just an observation.


(please don't flame me, I love the Magic Man, but he is 36)

Edited by LAWings, 10 April 2014 - 12:22 PM.

#24 Aznknight


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Posted 10 April 2014 - 01:29 PM

Gus suddenly not scoring after his scorching hot streak looks bad on paper, but is actually a great thing. The Wings have always played a team first system. Bowman implemented this in the 90's and we haven't looked back. Remember the grind line? They scored TIMELY goals not hattricks. This is why when you track other players' who have been traded away by the wings they only go one of two ways; the players either become the team's best player or are never heard from again. When they become that very rare occurrence of being productive and flying under the radar, Holland trades for them back.

Going back to Gus' situation, he's a goal scorer/game changer but he's in a team/defense first mentality. When Dats returned, he and his linemates were given a different role. Their line was to cycle the puck and push through the defense so Dats and his line could score. Yes Gus should be on that line to score. However, the post season is upon them and they need to start playing as a unit on a system designed to win 2-1 games. Gus has not lost his touch and his line will be a game breaker come playoff time. How if nobody there is scoring? By attracting enough attention to the point of the team shuffling their lines before every game to match up. This creates chemistry problems. In a game where every inch on the ice matters, this is very significant.

In short, Gus is not scoring because he was given a different role and is matched to play against scoring lines.

#25 Wheelchairsuperhero



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Posted 10 April 2014 - 01:49 PM

It's not like he's on a 10 game scoreless streak. He was just on such a torrid pace that it looks bad now that he isn't scoring 2 every game. He still looks good out there to me and that's what's important. I will say though that I think the kid line is better with Jurco on it and Nyquist would be better off somewhere else, like Franzen's spot maybe.

#26 Hack & Whack Rule!

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Posted 10 April 2014 - 07:21 PM

I haven't read all of the replies, so I may be hitting some points that were already made. Datsyuk coming back has, once again, changed the on ice dynamic. It happens when someone leaves and when someone comes back. Nyquist was on a hot streak...it happens. Teams have really closed up on him. They've seen his skills, and have put in their sights. Any combination of these and other reasons are why we are seeing a change.


#27 gcom007



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Posted 10 April 2014 - 09:26 PM

Again, I get what everyone's saying and I don't really disagree. I'm not trying to suggest that he's screwed now that Datsyuk's back or that we should be overly concerned about a 4-game goalless streak. If we could, why don't we not get too hung up on Nyquist in particular as even if he is affected by the factors I've been thinking about, it doesn't have too much to do with the bigger point. I wish I had left it out at this point as people have zeroed in on that alone.


The bigger question I'm pondering is how good it is for some of these kids that can obviously play at an NHL level to stay in the AHL for so long. Instead of making the team out of camp and having a more natural progression into the NHL, they're oftentimes thrown into the fire mid-season into unusual circumstances, and quite often, they do a real good job of filling in. It's easy to imagine them being motivated to make an impact, and they're likely already overly ripe, and there's just a different kind of pressure that you deal with when you're a call up as opposed to a regular coming out of camp. But as many of our younger players have learned, learning to play a steady NHL game and building off that is something that takes more time. What worries me is that the expectations get set too high based on a limited and unique period of time and when it comes time to become a regular, it ends up being just another thing hanging over their head when they're trying to adjust to just being an NHL regular.


It just seems to me based on what we've seen the last couple of years, that we have a better NHL team built from players that we've traditionally deemed not yet NHL-ready, and maybe we ought to start getting some of these guys into the lineup sooner and do so coming right out of camp. Sure, they might now see as many minutes as they'd see in the NHL, but NHL minutes might be more valuable to development ultimately, and again, maybe they're a lot more ready than we've typically thought anyways. The process allows them to grow into a role in a more natural way, adjust to playing on a team that isn't patched together due to injuries, and most likely avoids players getting frustrated playing in the minors when they know they're ready to be playing in the NHL. 


Side benefit: less room for the old hacks Holland can't seem to help but sign...


But all that said, I don't think it's healthy for a guy to come up to fill in for an injured player, have a great run, and then when they should just be focusing on getting an NHL career off the ground, have to deal with feeling the need to keep up with the newly minted expectations, forged during an unusual period of time. I don't think it does players any favors mentally, and I think it may be a big reason why we often see young guys struggle once they get elevated to being an NHL regular. You know, it's broader than hockey really, because I don't think many would say it's good to have too much success too early in most areas of life. You're not as fit to deal with the kind of pressure it invites and you end up struggling with the details you need to be picking up along the way that help you build a stronger foundation. There's just something about early success that has a way of haunting many people, no matter how smart or gifted they may be. It almost always comes as an anomaly, and anomalies are hard to reproduce.


I could very well be wrong, but again, from what I've seen the last few years, any way you shake it, I think it's high time we start letting some of our kids do more of their "ripening" in the NHL, and perhaps the Wings management needs to adjust their values for how "ripe" players are, and you know, perhaps acknowledge that the frustration some of these guys may experience staying in the AHL too long does them no favors either. After all, as you develop, you need bigger challenges to continue growing. And in the end, there's that glorious side benefit of less room for so many old hacks that have clearly become worthless parts of the team in too many cases.


#28 loutswings



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Posted 12 April 2014 - 06:42 AM

I think the 3rd and 4th lines looked pretty good this week. As for the 1st and 2nd line combos are not that good. Babs to shake those lines up because they look out of sync. 



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Posted 12 April 2014 - 08:25 AM

Ya... They really need to sent them all back to GR and bring the vets back... At least someone that can handle the ups and downs of a long season.
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#30 Rivalred



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Posted 12 April 2014 - 09:45 AM

Flip was hampered due to not having top minutes, he shined when folks were injured before and then regressed; now he is with a different team and having a solid year again.

May be a solid concern
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#31 Buppy



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Posted 12 April 2014 - 11:20 AM



I could very well be wrong, but again, from what I've seen the last few years, any way you shake it, I think it's high time we start letting some of our kids do more of their "ripening" in the NHL, and perhaps the Wings management needs to adjust their values for how "ripe" players are, and you know, perhaps acknowledge that the frustration some of these guys may experience staying in the AHL too long does them no favors either. After all, as you develop, you need bigger challenges to continue growing. And in the end, there's that glorious side benefit of less room for so many old hacks that have clearly become worthless parts of the team in too many cases.

The way the Wings handle their prospects is much closer to the way the rest of the league does than I think people realize. Aside from the high-first-rounders, most prospects spend considerable time in minor leagues and usually get their first opportunities from injuries. 


Also, I don't think those "worthless old hacks" have been as common (or as worthless) as you think. Bert, Cleary, and Sammy only account for two roster spots and those are already taken by Nyquist and Sheahan. Alfie and Legwand are far from useless, and while we might be able to get similar production from Jurco or Pulkkinen or Mantha, I'd rather have the extra depth. When injuries hit (and they hit almost every team almost every year) I'd rather have someone NHL ready come in. 

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