Next Seasons Needs/Team Future

[jimmyemeryhunter 2,747]

Watching the Olympics could provide us with some ideas. ie see who plays on Z's line for Sweden and what wings play on Dats line for

Russia. There's also the unknown commodity of teams like Austria, Switzerland, Latvia and Slovenia and surprise players they have.

Also a player that was undrafted and plays lw/c is Jan Kovar. 5'11" 207lb RH is doing well in the KHL after being a top scorer in his native

Czech league, only 23 but has 2 years to run on his current KHL contract. Fyodor Malykhin has also been mentioned as a potential target

but he also has a year to run on his KHL contract.

I can't remember who the other player was, but malykhins team let another one of their forwards out of his contract to go to the NHL.

Its in the article in the free agent posts.

[RyanBarnes! 293]

Watching the Olympics could provide us with some ideas. ie see who plays on Z's line for Sweden...

rumor is that Z will be moved to wing and play with Backstrom and Franzen. So there's an idea for you. Now, personally I would like to see Z on a shut down line with Landeskog and Silverberg/Hagelin.

[kipwinger 8,496]

rumor is that Z will be moved to wing and play with Backstrom and Franzen. So there's an idea for you. Now, personally I would like to see Z on a shut down line with Landeskog and Silverberg/Hagelin.

"Hagelin's a jitterbug and he stinks..." - John Tortorella

[BadgerBob 297]

Guys guys guys! I have the answer. We trade for Ovie AND Green. Ridiculous? Oh yeah. No way this happens unless you're in GM mode on NHL14, but how awesome would it be having him on a line with Pav and Hank?! I went on capgeek and played around. This is assuming Franzen comes back healthy this year and does well, same as Weiss. I traded them Franzen, Weiss, and Kindl. I figure you throw in any prospect or two not named Mantha and a couple first rounders maybe some other picks and BAM:

(Not to be taken seriously, just a joke/wishful thinking)

CAPGEEK.COM ARMCHAIR GM ROSTER
CapGeek Armchair GM Roster
FORWARDS
Henrik Zetterberg ($6.083m) / Pavel Datsyuk ($7.500m) / Alex Ovechkin ($9.538m)
Gustav Nyquist ($0.950m) / Darren Helm ($2.125m) / Justin Abdelkader ($1.800m)
Tomas Tatar ($0.715m) / Riley Sheahan ($0.715m) / Tomas Jurco ($0.709m)
Patrick Eaves ($1.200m) / Joakim Andersson ($0.733m) / Luke Glendening ($0.605m)
Mitchell Callahan ($0.605m) / Drew Miller ($1.350m) /
DEFENSEMEN
Niklas Kronwall ($4.750m) / Mike Green ($6.083m)
Jonathan Ericsson ($4.250m) / Brendan Smith ($1.263m)
Brian Lashoff ($0.725m) / Danny DeKeyser ($0.874m)
Xavier Ouellet ($0.670m) /
GOALTENDERS
Jimmy Howard ($5.292m)
Jonas Gustavsson ($1.500m)
BUYOUTS
Carlo Colaiacovo ($0.000m)
Jordin Tootoo ($0.000m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(estimations for 2014-15)
SALARY CAP: $71,100,000; CAP PAYROLL: $60,035,087; BONUSES: $440,000
CAP SPACE (23-man roster): $11,064,913

[jimmyemeryhunter 2,747]

My question is why you didn't go all out and trade helm, Nyquist smith and a bag of picks and prospects for Crosby and maata.

[GMRwings1983 8,793]

My question is why you didn't go all out and trade helm, Nyquist smith and a bag of picks and prospects for Crosby and maata.

Juan Mata?

Pretty sure Manchester United signed him this week.

[BadgerBob 297]

My question is why you didn't go all out and trade helm, Nyquist smith and a bag of picks and prospects for Crosby and maata.

Are you asking me? If so it's because I personally really don't like Crosby. At all. Don't even want him on this team for anyone. That, and Ovechkin can play wing on Datsyuk's line with Z.

[jimmyemeryhunter 2,747]

Juan Mata?

Pretty sure Manchester United signed him this week.

Ha.

Yeahhhh.

I don't know how to make diacritic marks on my phone, but I'll get there.

And nah man. Crosby for the second line center.

I don't LIKE Crosby either, I'm a red wings fan he's a whiny little girl.

But I'd be dumb as hell to say I wouldn't want him on my team.

And as for next season.

Mostly Addition by subtraction.

Wouldn't mind if we can get a top four dman if the price isn't too bloated.

And bring in fedyor malykhin, try him out on the third line with sheahan and Tatar, with jurco on the top line if we don't add a big goal scoring winger to go along with dats and z.

I'd be okay with trying mantha out in this capacity, just don't see it happening.

Edited January 29, 2014 by jimmyemeryhunter

[RyanBarnes! 293]

"Hagelin's a jitterbug and he stinks..." - John Tortorella

Didnt think you were a guy that put much value in a coach like Tortorella? Hagelin made team Sweden so how much of a problem can he really be?

[DickieDunn 2,571]

The thought of Mike Green a a Red Wing makes me ill. His defense makes Smith look like a defensive rock.

[Z Winged Dangler 2,082]

You're a funny guy

I know this. But why do you think I am a funny guy? Your post has no meat.

Guys guys guys! I have the answer. We trade for Ovie AND Green. Ridiculous? Oh yeah. No way this happens unless you're in GM mode on NHL14, but how awesome would it be having him on a line with Pav and Hank?! I went on capgeek and played around. This is assuming Franzen comes back healthy this year and does well, same as Weiss. I traded them Franzen, Weiss, and Kindl. I figure you throw in any prospect or two not named Mantha and a couple first rounders maybe some other picks and BAM:

(Not to be taken seriously, just a joke/wishful thinking)

CAPGEEK.COM ARMCHAIR GM ROSTER

CapGeek Armchair GM Roster

FORWARDS

Henrik Zetterberg ($6.083m) / Pavel Datsyuk ($7.500m) / Alex Ovechkin ($9.538m)

Gustav Nyquist ($0.950m) / Darren Helm ($2.125m) / Justin Abdelkader ($1.800m)

Tomas Tatar ($0.715m) / Riley Sheahan ($0.715m) / Tomas Jurco ($0.709m)

Patrick Eaves ($1.200m) / Joakim Andersson ($0.733m) / Luke Glendening ($0.605m)

Mitchell Callahan ($0.605m) / Drew Miller ($1.350m) /

DEFENSEMEN

Niklas Kronwall ($4.750m) / Mike Green ($6.083m)

Jonathan Ericsson ($4.250m) / Brendan Smith ($1.263m)

Brian Lashoff ($0.725m) / Danny DeKeyser ($0.874m)

Xavier Ouellet ($0.670m) /

GOALTENDERS

Jimmy Howard ($5.292m)

Jonas Gustavsson ($1.500m)

BUYOUTS

Carlo Colaiacovo ($0.000m)

Jordin Tootoo ($0.000m)

------

CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)

(estimations for 2014-15)

SALARY CAP: $71,100,000; CAP PAYROLL: $60,035,087; BONUSES: $440,000

CAP SPACE (23-man roster): $11,064,913

No way Tatar is on the 3rd line next year. God, it's like you put no effort into this. I just think it's funny that Ovechkin costs as much as our bottom 9.

[luvmnger 125]

have datsyuk tell burmistrov he can play on his wing if he comes back in a duffel bag... ala sergei style.

change his last name to brown...witness relocation plan.

ta da!

sniper!

[kipwinger 8,496]

Didnt think you were a guy that put much value in a coach like Tortorella? Hagelin made team Sweden so how much of a problem can he really be?

I don't. It was more a joke about Torts than about Hegelin, who's really quite good...supposed powerplay difficulties aside.

Guys guys guys! I have the answer. We trade for Ovie AND Green. Ridiculous? Oh yeah. No way this happens unless you're in GM mode on NHL14, but how awesome would it be having him on a line with Pav and Hank?! I went on capgeek and played around. This is assuming Franzen comes back healthy this year and does well, same as Weiss. I traded them Franzen, Weiss, and Kindl. I figure you throw in any prospect or two not named Mantha and a couple first rounders maybe some other picks and BAM:

(Not to be taken seriously, just a joke/wishful thinking)

CAPGEEK.COM ARMCHAIR GM ROSTER

CapGeek Armchair GM Roster

FORWARDS

Henrik Zetterberg ($6.083m) / Pavel Datsyuk ($7.500m) / Alex Ovechkin ($9.538m)

Gustav Nyquist ($0.950m) / Darren Helm ($2.125m) / Justin Abdelkader ($1.800m)

Tomas Tatar ($0.715m) / Riley Sheahan ($0.715m) / Tomas Jurco ($0.709m)

Patrick Eaves ($1.200m) / Joakim Andersson ($0.733m) / Luke Glendening ($0.605m)

Mitchell Callahan ($0.605m) / Drew Miller ($1.350m) /

DEFENSEMEN

Niklas Kronwall ($4.750m) / Mike Green ($6.083m)

Jonathan Ericsson ($4.250m) / Brendan Smith ($1.263m)

Brian Lashoff ($0.725m) / Danny DeKeyser ($0.874m)

Xavier Ouellet ($0.670m) /

GOALTENDERS

Jimmy Howard ($5.292m)

Jonas Gustavsson ($1.500m)

BUYOUTS

Carlo Colaiacovo ($0.000m)

Jordin Tootoo ($0.000m)

------

CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)

(estimations for 2014-15)

SALARY CAP: $71,100,000; CAP PAYROLL: $60,035,087; BONUSES: $440,000

CAP SPACE (23-man roster): $11,064,913

You'd need Ovie AND Stamkos to make up for all the goals that a combination of Smith and Mike Green would let in. They would arguably be the worst defensive pairing in the history of the league. I'm wondering which of the two would actually stay back on defense...breakaways and odd man rushes galore. Nevermind all the blown zone coverage. Yeesh.

[DickieDunn 2,571]

You're a funny guy

I know this. But why do you think I am a funny guy? Your post has no meat.

Guys guys guys! I have the answer. We trade for Ovie AND Green. Ridiculous? Oh yeah. No way this happens unless you're in GM mode on NHL14, but how awesome would it be having him on a line with Pav and Hank?! I went on capgeek and played around. This is assuming Franzen comes back healthy this year and does well, same as Weiss. I traded them Franzen, Weiss, and Kindl. I figure you throw in any prospect or two not named Mantha and a couple first rounders maybe some other picks and BAM:

(Not to be taken seriously, just a joke/wishful thinking)

CAPGEEK.COM ARMCHAIR GM ROSTERCapGeek Armchair GM RosterFORWARDS

Henrik Zetterberg ($6.083m) / Pavel Datsyuk ($7.500m) / Alex Ovechkin ($9.538m)

Gustav Nyquist ($0.950m) / Darren Helm ($2.125m) / Justin Abdelkader ($1.800m)

Tomas Tatar ($0.715m) / Riley Sheahan ($0.715m) / Tomas Jurco ($0.709m)

Patrick Eaves ($1.200m) / Joakim Andersson ($0.733m) / Luke Glendening ($0.605m)

Mitchell Callahan ($0.605m) / Drew Miller ($1.350m) /DEFENSEMEN

Niklas Kronwall ($4.750m) / Mike Green ($6.083m)

Jonathan Ericsson ($4.250m) / Brendan Smith ($1.263m)

Brian Lashoff ($0.725m) / Danny DeKeyser ($0.874m)

Xavier Ouellet ($0.670m) /GOALTENDERS

Jimmy Howard ($5.292m)

Jonas Gustavsson ($1.500m)BUYOUTS

Carlo Colaiacovo ($0.000m)

Jordin Tootoo ($0.000m)------CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)(estimations for 2014-15)SALARY CAP: $71,100,000; CAP PAYROLL: $60,035,087; BONUSES: $440,000CAP SPACE (23-man roster): $11,064,913

No way Tatar is on the 3rd line next year. God, it's like you put no effort into this. I just think it's funny that Ovechkin costs as much as our bottom 9.

Sorry, I thought you were making a joke when you suggested that package could bring a good player in return.

As far as where Tatar plays next year, he probably will be on the 3rd. Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Weiss, and Franzen certainly are ahead of him. Nyquist is better defensively so he probably is too, and if they sign a free agent he'll probably be ahead too. Jurco might be there too because of his size. That's 6 or 7 forwards ahead of him.

[BadgerBob 297]

I know this. But why do you think I am a funny guy? Your post has no meat.

No way Tatar is on the 3rd line next year. God, it's like you put no effort into this. I just think it's funny that Ovechkin costs as much as our bottom 9.

Well it wasn't to be taken seriously, as stated. Plus being at work it was kind of hard to put full effort into something like that. I think it's a real possibility Tatar COULD be on our 3rd line depending on what happens this off season. I'd rather have our bottom 9 cost that much and be effective than have Cleary, Sammy, and Weiss who were an actual line cost as much as Ovie does.

[Richdg 267]

Yes this is subjective, I understand that. But we shall have some fun anyway. IMHO a superstar player is a top 50 forward, top 30 defensemen, or a top 10 goalie. if that is the standard, we come up short. We have 2 top 50 forwards in Z and D, no top 30 dmen, and a top 10 G in Howard. Out of our group of prospects only Mantha look like a guy that could be a top 50 forward. Not sure if any of the D will get there and Mresak at G may got there. Of course the 2 top 50 forwards are down to the final few years.

The question becomes how do we fix this? yes you can draft and develop, but that takes time. 3-5 years depending on what round a guy is taken. Even then there are no sure things. Miss on a 1st rounder over the next couple of years and we are really screwed. be it bad pick, injury whatever.

We could go the UFA route, if any stars ever where to make it to UFA. Under the new NHL/CBA/Cap era, it is the star players that get signed first, and the secondary pieces/grinders that become UFA's. When 1 or 2 guys that are stars do make it, they then become very expensive.

The last option is to trade. Something we haven't done lately. this is also expensive in terms of potential we are giving up. To get a star you have to give up 3, 4, maybe 5 prospects/picks to make it happen.

Now, with all of that being said, we have to make some moves asap. we don't have time to sit around and wait 3-5 years for prospects to develop-if they ever do. Datsyuk is signed for 3 more years. Z is signed longer, but has a bad back. something that is not going to get better with age, only worse. Yes with those 2 around, we will stay in the very large group of teams fighting for the playoffs. But unless we find a few gems, there are no SC's in our near future. As great as Z and D have been for us, they deserve some help. They should not be asked to carry the team by themselves in the twilight of their careers.

[kipwinger 8,496]

A couple of things. Kronwall is a top 30 defenseman...easily. Also, given how Tatar and Nyquist have produced in their rookie seasons, it's not unreasonable to see them (especially) Tatar up in the 30 goal range. If so, and depending on their assist totals, they may be able to crack top fifty forwards in another couple of years. I think Jurco and Mantha both have that ceiling as well, as do Sproul and Mrazek at their respective positions.

[Richdg 267]

I doubt that either of Nyquist or Tatar ever gets to 30 goals. The chances of that go down as Z and D get older/less productive. They are secondary players not guys other teams game plan for. if they become the focus they will not be as good IMHO. Now that doesn't mean they suck. many seem to think 20 goal scorers are everywhere, they are not. 30+ goal scorers are really hard to find. People talk about franzen like he is scoring machine, yet he has 1 30 goal season in his 9 year career. same with Callahan, another fan fav. His career best is and will remain 29 goals in a season. While tatar and Nyquist are better skaters and defenders (Nyquist) offensively they are Hudlers. 20ish goals per year with a little help to get there.

[stillwater 186]

Yeah! Let's make some trades! That is a most excellent idea. Get er done Kenny.

We should be targeting Matt Moulson or Thomas Vanek and Zach Bogosian.

[Richdg 267]

Kip, lets assume you are correct on Jurco and Mantha. I agree on the later BTW. Our problem/issue is by the time they become supers, D and Z are done and gone. Meaning we didn't gain anything. We just replaced 2 supers with 2 others. Which has been the issue the last 5 years or so. Supers leaving and not being replaced. So we have to find 3-5 others that are or can become supers and do so soon if we hope to see the cup again.

[matthewdanna 143]

Yeah! Let's make some trades! That is a most excellent idea. Get er done Kenny.

We should be targeting Matt Moulson or Thomas Vanek and Zach Bogosian.

I'd love Bogosian

[kipwinger 8,496]

I doubt that either of Nyquist or Tatar ever gets to 30 goals. The chances of that go down as Z and D get older/less productive. They are secondary players not guys other teams game plan for. if they become the focus they will not be as good IMHO. Now that doesn't mean they suck. many seem to think 20 goal scorers are everywhere, they are not. 30+ goal scorers are really hard to find. People talk about franzen like he is scoring machine, yet he has 1 30 goal season in his 9 year career. same with Callahan, another fan fav. His career best is and will remain 29 goals in a season. While tatar and Nyquist are better skaters and defenders (Nyquist) offensively they are Hudlers. 20ish goals per year with a little help to get there.

Tatar especially has not been "the focus" all season. Additionally, he's got 12 goals in 45 games in his rookie season, with third line minutes and minimal powerplay time. Nyquist probably has a lower ceiling in goals, but higher in assists. Also, he has really come alive the last week with both Z and D out of the lineup at times. Now, I'm not guaranteeing that it will happen, but I don't think it's fantasy either.

Kip, lets assume you are correct on Jurco and Mantha. I agree on the later BTW. Our problem/issue is by the time they become supers, D and Z are done and gone. Meaning we didn't gain anything. We just replaced 2 supers with 2 others. Which has been the issue the last 5 years or so. Supers leaving and not being replaced. So we have to find 3-5 others that are or can become supers and do so soon if we hope to see the cup again.

I agree with this. I was only talking about whether that had that kind of ceiling. I'm not making any statements about how good the team will be.

[MabusIncarnate 5,344]

First off Kronwall is unquestionably a top 30 defender, i'm not sure why he wouldn't be considered as such.

Also, there have been a lot of new threads being posted lately that are strikingly similar to others with small vague side points trying to set them apart as their own topic. Please be conscious of threads that already exist pertaining to topics including team moves, team future, offseason moves, etc. This is why I merged these two topics together to prevent a bit of clutter and keep the same discussion in the same area of the forums. Thanks.

[kipwinger 8,496]

First off Kronwall is unquestionably a top 30 defender, i'm not sure why he wouldn't be considered as such.

Also, there have been a lot of new threads being posted lately that are strikingly similar to others with small vague side points trying to set them apart as their own topic. Please be conscious of threads that already exist pertaining to topics including team moves, team future, offseason moves, etc. This is why I merged these two topics together to prevent a bit of clutter and keep the same discussion in the same area of the forums. Thanks.

I really thought the "future stars" thread had the potential to meaningfully discuss the ceiling of our current young players, and focus on developmental trajectories. Prior to merging, only one person had discussed trading of any sort and it was pretty clearly meant to derail a discussion that was nonetheless a nice break from the "trades", "Cleary sucks", "our team sucks" threads.

Edit: Nevermind. The OP did discuss trades at the end of his post. I guess I need to read more closely.

Edited February 1, 2014 by kipwinger

[Wings02 31]

I don't mean to suggest that Tats or Gus are going to be anywhere close to as good as Pavel or Henrik but it seems that people overlook the fact that they are both on pace to have very similar statistical rookie years to the Eurotwins. This is true despite what many would argue is a much less talented Red Wings team now than it was earlier in the decade. Just an observation, something to think about