Next Seasons Needs/Team Future

[Guest DeGraa55]

Put me on suicide watch if Holland brings Joe Thornton to Detroit.

If we got rid of Weiss that'd be a huge addition.

Edited May 30, 2014 by DeGraa55

[Dabura 12,207]

http://www.wingingitinmotown.com/2014/5/30/5765576/red-wings-playoff-streak-pavel-datsyuk-has-the-right-idea

"I wouldn't say so. Though they confidently won the series against us, and deservedly won. There was so much talk about how the team had been making its way into the playoffs for over 20 years, and that it's a sign of permanence. And in my opinion, those who think that way are thinking incorrectly. It's time to change the stereotype. The team needs to be challenged to not just get into the playoffs, but to get into the playoffs and win the Stanley Cup." - Pavel Datsyuk

Oh snap. First Z, now D. Great minds.

Not that there's anything remotely sensational about what he said, mind you. Any NHLer will tell you that just making the playoffs isn't enough and shouldn't be the ultimate goal. But this does feel kinda different, at least to me. Z and now D put it right out there without any prompting or poking and prodding. It doesn't feel like a "safe" answer. It feels pretty honest, genuine. I think it's really pissing them off that they finished this supremely frustrating season about as far from the Cup as they've ever finished. But I could just be projecting my own feelings here. I tend to be very Cup-or-bust.

[Dabura 12,207]

Also from WIIM, a look at Anton Stralman.

Kronwall Ericsson

DeKeyser Stralman

Smith Marchenko

I wouldn't mind that.

[Dabura 12,207]

(More on Stralman.)

[kipwinger 8,521]

(More on Stralman.)

Why does the author make a point of saying he's right handed if he doesn't score or play on the pp? Who cares what he shoots if that's the case.

Also...

5'11 and 190? No thanks. I don't care how great his possession stats are, that would essentially give us the smallest, softest, weakest defense on earth. We already get steamrolled by strong forechecking teams as it is.

I'll still take Niskanen, since he's about 20 lbs. heavier and scores every so often.

Unless we swap Stralman for Smith somehow. He couldn't possible be softer than Brendan "I've got as many hits as Jakub Kindl despite playing more minutes in more games" Smith.

[Son of a Wing 1,644]

http://www.wingingitinmotown.com/2014/5/30/5765576/red-wings-playoff-streak-pavel-datsyuk-has-the-right-idea

"I wouldn't say so. Though they confidently won the series against us, and deservedly won. There was so much talk about how the team had been making its way into the playoffs for over 20 years, and that it's a sign of permanence. And in my opinion, those who think that way are thinking incorrectly. It's time to change the stereotype. The team needs to be challenged to not just get into the playoffs, but to get into the playoffs and win the Stanley Cup." - Pavel Datsyuk

Oh snap. First Z, now D. Great minds.

Not that there's anything remotely sensational about what he said, mind you. Any NHLer will tell you that just making the playoffs isn't enough and shouldn't be the ultimate goal. But this does feel kinda different, at least to me. Z and now D put it right out there without any prompting or poking and prodding. It doesn't feel like a "safe" answer. It feels pretty honest, genuine. I think it's really pissing them off that they finished this supremely frustrating season about as far from the Cup as they've ever finished. But I could just be projecting my own feelings here. I tend to be very Cup-or-bust.

I think both Z and D are fully aware of the depth of our organization and understand that we're in a unique position both personnel AND cap-wise to make a bold move or two to really put us in contention.

Couple that with their ages and roles on the team and you can fully understand why they're getting frustrated and impatient. This could be the summer we finally see a move or two.

Holland has to trade for a solid proven top 2-3 defenceman. Best guy you can get(Yandle, Carlson, Josi, Byfyglien). Trade Tatar+1st+ whatever else and get it done.

One of our young forwards will go and it won't be Nyquist or Sheahan.

[Son of a Wing 1,644]

In regards to Stralman... he did just play over 22 minutes in game 7 of the conference finals so he can't be too shabby...

[Guest DeGraa55]

http://www.wingingitinmotown.com/2014/5/30/5765576/red-wings-playoff-streak-pavel-datsyuk-has-the-right-idea

"I wouldn't say so. Though they confidently won the series against us, and deservedly won. There was so much talk about how the team had been making its way into the playoffs for over 20 years, and that it's a sign of permanence. And in my opinion, those who think that way are thinking incorrectly. It's time to change the stereotype. The team needs to be challenged to not just get into the playoffs, but to get into the playoffs and win the Stanley Cup." - Pavel Datsyuk

Oh snap. First Z, now D. Great minds.

Not that there's anything remotely sensational about what he said, mind you. Any NHLer will tell you that just making the playoffs isn't enough and shouldn't be the ultimate goal. But this does feel kinda different, at least to me. Z and now D put it right out there without any prompting or poking and prodding. It doesn't feel like a "safe" answer. It feels pretty honest, genuine. I think it's really pissing them off that they finished this supremely frustrating season about as far from the Cup as they've ever finished. But I could just be projecting my own feelings here. I tend to be very Cup-or-bust.

Well I think it's safe to say most people feel this way but holland is fine with ONLY making the playoffs. Look at how he has built this team.

This isn't a cup team and we all know it. And he doesn't make the moves necessary to correct it.

[Richdg 267]

http://www.wingingitinmotown.com/2014/5/30/5765576/red-wings-playoff-streak-pavel-datsyuk-has-the-right-idea

"I wouldn't say so. Though they confidently won the series against us, and deservedly won. There was so much talk about how the team had been making its way into the playoffs for over 20 years, and that it's a sign of permanence. And in my opinion, those who think that way are thinking incorrectly. It's time to change the stereotype. The team needs to be challenged to not just get into the playoffs, but to get into the playoffs and win the Stanley Cup." - Pavel Datsyuk

Oh snap. First Z, now D. Great minds.

Not that there's anything remotely sensational about what he said, mind you. Any NHLer will tell you that just making the playoffs isn't enough and shouldn't be the ultimate goal. But this does feel kinda different, at least to me. Z and now D put it right out there without any prompting or poking and prodding. It doesn't feel like a "safe" answer. It feels pretty honest, genuine. I think it's really pissing them off that they finished this supremely frustrating season about as far from the Cup as they've ever finished. But I could just be projecting my own feelings here. I tend to be very Cup-or-bust.

I think this quote and the comments that Z made almost need their own thread.

I tend to agree with this and will add to it. 16 teams out of 30 make the playoffs every year. The top 53% make it. Better than half. Making the PO's isn't that big of a deal in and of itself. It is akin to going to a bowl game in college football. Everyone goes to a bowl game and thing is, most people don't care. When people don't care you are done.

It took us a long time of dominating the NHL to win the cup in 97. It made the organization hungry. Made us the fans hungry, made the players hungry. Everyone was focused and driven. Now?????

We as an organization are far to fat and happy. We made the playoffs! We're number 15! We're number 15! etc...... We won 39 games this year out of the 82 regular season games. That is under .500! Everyone that has ever played for the RW's retires and gets a job as an advizor or consultant with the team. Jimmy D is staying getting a paycheck, Holland, Chelios, Draper, Osgood, Fischer, etc..... One of the quotes earlier this week about Mantha, Holland mentioned he had to talk to the other 10 scouts.... 11 guys are making decisions? Becoming fat and top heavy is what kills companies. GM anyone?

Now we are getting to the point that the 2 biggest stars we have, in their final few seasons are getting upset? Or at least tired of the team not making a 100% serious effort to win the cup. Can anyone blame them? These 2 go out and give 100% they have in every game. They play through pain and injury, datsyuk is 8000 miles from his daughter and still giving everything he has. Why? To win the cup. Z and D are also smart enough to know that as they age, their skills are dropping off. They know they need help from several sources to win another cup, and both really want to!

Can we all say with 100% conviction that Holland and the management of the RW's have done everything they can to try to win the cup the past 5 years? No. Who was the last big time UFA signing? Rafalski? Who was the last big time trade? Chelios? Did not those 2 help us win cups? How many names have we been rumored to be in on and not get? Bobby Ryan, Ryan O'reilly, Ryan Kesler, seems to be a theme there.....LOL, Jay Bouewmester (spelling), Edler, Rick Nash, and many more. Would we not be a better team with 2-3 of those guys on it? Yes we would. Maybe still playing this year instead of golfing.

What has our PO record been the past 4 seasons? Not very good. 3 first round exits and a second round exit. But but but we played the Hawks tough last year. BS! The hawks didn't even show up until game 3, then kicked our a$$ in 4 of 5.

This is the second time since the end of our season that Datsyuk has said something about the direction of the team. yes he has been polite, but we can not ignore the fact he is unhappy. He has 3 years left on his contract. There is no surer way to get him to retire and go home than to continue down our current path. If just making the PO's and losing early is the new standard, why would Z continue to play for his remaining 6 years? make a deep run or 2, or show that we are close and we might get an extra year of of them. Just being in the top 53% isn't going to do that, and should never be ok with us the fans.

end rant

[Son of a Wing 1,644]

Well I think it's safe to say most people feel this way but holland is fine with ONLY making the playoffs. Look at how he has built this team.

This isn't a cup team and we all know it. And he doesn't make the moves necessary to correct it.

I didn't realize teams have been lining up to dump their star players on us for our picks and prospects.

[Dabura 12,207]

Why does the author make a point of saying he's right handed if he doesn't score or play on the pp? Who cares what he shoots if that's the case.

Handedness is important in a number of ways. (Otherwise, no one would care about it.) One example: breakouts.

5'11 and 190? No thanks. I don't care how great his possession stats are, that would essentially give us the smallest, softest, weakest defense on earth. We already get steamrolled by strong forechecking teams as it is.

Puck possession and puck movement are paramount. That's why Lidstrom-Rafalski-Kronwall was the best top three we've ever had. Lidstrom wasn't terribly big and never hit anyone. Rafalski was smallish and non-physical (and not amazing in the d-zone). Kronwall is smallish and, aside from the Kronwalling, not especially physical.

Size and strength and physicality, as measures of defensive value, are overrated. If you're hitting, it means you don't have the puck. I want guys who can own the puck, do good things with it, make plays with it, keep the puck out of our zone, drive our possession and attack. If we get steamrolled by forecheckers, it's because we suck with the puck in our end. Having said all that, I'd like for Stralman to score more. But if he's helping the team score, that's fine by me. As long as we're scoring. Plus, if he's a big point-producer, his price tag is way higher and he becomes more of a pipe dream, because we don't do bidding wars anymore.

Bottom line - like Son of a Wing said, Stralman's playing top-four minutes on a Stanley Cup Finals team, and the stats (and the eye test) point to him being one of their most important players. And he's Swedish! C'mon!

Unless we swap Stralman for Smith somehow. He couldn't possible be softer than Brendan "I've got as many hits as Jakub Kindl despite playing more minutes in more games" Smith.

The value of The Hit is overstated, unless it's leading to meaningful possession. You want to always have the puck. If you're hitting and Being Truculent, it means you don't have the puck and you're trying to get it back. Our problem is we can gain possession but we don't do good things with the puck once we have it, at least not in our end. That's been Smith's problem - he's done some very bad things with the puck in our end. However, he's probably one of our better puck-movers on the back end when he's on his game. And, for what it's worth, he's faaar from "soft." I like the Smith we saw in the playoffs. He stepped up.

EDIT: I'm not saying handedness is all-important or that size and strength isn't key. I just want my better defensemen to be, above all else, really damn good with the puck. Point production is huge, but I see Niskanen getting an absolute monster of a contract, whereas I feel Stralman could be had without having to beat out 20 other teams in an all-out bidding war.

Edited May 31, 2014 by Dabura

[number9 3,297]

There's a reason why we don't have a ton of big hitters. Most head hunters hit behind the play.

[kipwinger 8,521]

Handedness is important in a number of ways. (Otherwise, no one would care about it.) One example: breakouts.

Puck possession and puck movement are paramount. That's why Lidstrom-Rafalski-Kronwall was the best top three we've ever had. Lidstrom wasn't terribly big and never hit anyone. Rafalski was smallish and non-physical (and not amazing in the d-zone). Kronwall is smallish and, aside from the Kronwalling, not especially physical.

Size and strength and physicality, as measures of defensive value, are overrated. If you're hitting, it means you don't have the puck. I want guys who can own the puck, do good things with it, make plays with it, keep the puck out of our zone, drive our possession and attack. If we get steamrolled by forecheckers, it's because we suck with the puck in our end. Having said all that, I'd like for Stralman to score more. But if he's helping the team score, that's fine by me. As long as we're scoring. Plus, if he's a big point-producer, his price tag is way higher and he becomes more of a pipe dream, because we don't do bidding wars anymore.

Bottom line - like Son of a Wing said, Stralman's playing top-four minutes on a Stanley Cup Finals team, and the stats (and the eye test) point to him being one of their most important players. And he's Swedish! C'mon!

The value of The Hit is overstated, unless it's leading to meaningful possession. You want to always have the puck. If you're hitting and Being Truculent, it means you don't have the puck and you're trying to get it back. Our problem is we can gain possession but we don't do good things with the puck once we have it, at least not in our end. That's been Smith's problem - he's done some very bad things with the puck in our end. However, he's probably one of our better puck-movers on the back end when he's on his game. And, for what it's worth, he's faaar from "soft." I like the Smith we saw in the playoffs. He stepped up.

EDIT: I'm not saying handedness is all-important or that size and strength isn't key. I just want my better defensemen to be, above all else, really damn good with the puck. Point production is huge, but I see Niskanen getting an absolute monster of a contract, whereas I feel Stralman could be had without having to beat out 20 other teams in an all-out bidding war.

First, Lids/Rafi/Kronwall are not the best top three we've ever had. Not by a damn sight. In 1997 we had Lids, Fetisov, Murphy, and Konstantinov on the team. The three you mentioned are the best of the salary cap era...maybe. Secondly, you can confuse the story all you want with "possession this and possession that", but I wasn't comparing Brendan Smith's hit stats to some other teams defenseman...I was comparing him to someone on his own team (Kindl) and he's flat out soft. Same team, same system, same forwards. The fact that he's been in a couple of career fights doesn't deter from the fact that he finishes his checks less than everyone aside from Jakub "6'4 Europuss" Kindl.

Edited May 31, 2014 by kipwinger

[Dominator2005 558]

Ahhh. Are we still not over the Bruins?

Last I checked they got beat by a skilled team from Montreal.

I'd love the Wings to be "harder" to play against. They'll have to do that through the draft (because top six guys who can score are almost impossible to acquire as UFAs). Holland has obviously started drafting bigger guys recently.

For now, I'll take a team that can:

a) score

b) score on the PP

c) score

I don't think that Montreal is more skilled than Boston...

1. Price was better in net than Rask.

2. PK Subban was playing like L. Robinson.

3. Montreal's grinders (which we don't have) played very well. They were pretty physical: Prust, Weise, Bourque, PK, Emelin and Murray...

On Detroit side:

1. Howard was "average"

2. Best D was Smith/Kronwall

3. No physicality at all

For those who still wants Vanek - there is nothing to do with you guys.

[frankgrimes 1,836]

No thanks to Stralman and more undersized guys, the Wings need size, grit and toughness. McKee will soon be ready but someone to fill this role for the next season going forward is still needed.

The best option to fix the defense would be Niskanen, which will for sure require a bit of overpayment, as for scoring maybe Matt Moulson if he doesn't sign with the Wild.

as for Vanek - for 4 - 5 mill sure which won't happen so no thanks, the guy is a floater.

Edited May 31, 2014 by frankgrimes

[PumpkinEscobar 136]

McKee will be lucky if he sniffs the NHL in 5 years

[kipwinger 8,521]

McKee will be lucky if he sniffs the NHL in 5 years

I've got to agree. Wishful thinking on McKee. Plus, while I've been clamoring for the Wings to get bigger and harder to play against, it was implied that the acquisitions actually be able to play the game of hockey. Sorry Mike McKee.

[Bring Back The Bruise Bros 1,029]

I can't imagine Mike McKee being a Wing for any long period of time. Sucks to say it.

I want Deryk Engelland on this team. Any news on whether Pittsburgh is looking to keep him around?

Edited May 31, 2014 by Bring Back The Bruise Bros

[frankgrimes 1,836]

I can't imagine Mike McKee being a Wing for any long period of time. Sucks to say it.

I want Deryk Engelland on this team. Any news on whether Pittsburgh is looking to keep him around?

I think people are really underestimating what kind of beast McKee will bee. Guy is already a fitness freak just wait till he breaks into the NHL Bordelaux style.

Engelland would be nice but I want Gazdic, can play and is willing to drop the gloves against everyone.

[Bring Back The Bruise Bros 1,029]

I think people are really underestimating what kind of beast McKee will bee. Guy is already a fitness freak just wait till he breaks into the NHL Bordelaux style.

Engelland would be nice but I want Gazdic, can play and is willing to drop the gloves against everyone.

Is Gazdic even a free agent? We're looking for a defenseman. Engelland is just what we're looking for.

[Dominator2005 558]

McQuaid is better than Eneglland and he could be available.

Gazdic is the perfect 4th liner.

Z - Dats - Abdelkader

Jurco - She - Nyquist

Tatar - Weiss - Franzen

*Gazdic* - Helm - Callahan

LG

Kronwall - Smith

DeKe - *Niskanen/Boyle* (FA)

Ericsson - *McQuaid/Engelland*

Marchenko

[Richdg 267]

Mckee is to far away to even talk about. let him finish his career at WMU as a LW, then a year or 2 in Gr, then we can talk. Maybe he never makes it, maybe he does, either way just to far away to know.

[DickieDunn 2,571]

McQuaid is better than Eneglland and he could be available.

Gazdic is the perfect 4th liner.

Z - Dats - Abdelkader

Jurco - She - Nyquist

Tatar - Weiss - Franzen

*Gazdic* - Helm - Callahan

LG

Kronwall - Smith

DeKe - *Niskanen/Boyle* (FA)

Ericsson - *McQuaid/Engelland*

Marchenko

There is no way they will keep a waiver eligible kid as a reserve. one of the kids would probably be better anyway.

Edited June 1, 2014 by DickieDunn

[frankgrimes 1,836]

McQuaid is better than Eneglland and he could be available.

Gazdic is the perfect 4th liner.

Z - Dats - Abdelkader

Jurco - She - Nyquist

Tatar - Weiss - Franzen

*Gazdic* - Helm - Callahan

LG

Kronwall - Smith

DeKe - *Niskanen/Boyle* (FA)

Ericsson - *McQuaid/Engelland*

Marchenko

Gazdic + McQuaid/Engelland I really love that thought well done.

Same goes for the addition of Niskanen

[Dabura 12,207]

Gazdic sucks.