Next Seasons Needs/Team Future

[SimonSin 192]

I think the Wings should push really hard for Matt Niskanen. I made a thread about this a little while back and the guy is producing in the playoffs. He seems to be solid defensively and he can score. 27 years old, right handed shot. When he hits the market he's going to be that really hott chic at the club that every guy is after. He's definitely going to get 5-6 million a year. He would be a huge upgrade on the blue line.

[BadgerBob 297]

Troll time:

Danny Heatly + Derek Morris

3 year deals for each.

Book it.

Full NTC/NMC too of course

[nyqvististhefuture 1,002]

Go hard for Niskanen, trade for Pavelski. Let the kids keep on developing. That alone would make the Wings loads better. Sure Pavelski doesn't solve the size problem, but holy s*** the guy could score. Gives the Wings options to. IF Weiss doesn't pan out, boom second line center. A legit one to. If Weiss is healthy and plays like he can, put Pavelski on Pasha's Wing and enjoy the show.

Zero chance sj trades pavelski

I think the Wings should push really hard for Matt Niskanen. I made a thread about this a little while back and the guy is producing in the playoffs. He seems to be solid defensively and he can score. 27 years old, right handed shot. When he hits the market he's going to be that really hott chic at the club that every guy is after. He's definitely going to get 5-6 million a year. He would be a huge upgrade on the blue line.

Niskanen is highly overrated in my opinion .... To give him 5-6 mill per year ... More than kronwall is madness .... Yes he's had one really good year but he's not better than kronwall and we shouldn't go all crazy and offer him the moon

It helps his stats he's playing with Crosby malkin etc ...

If we're giving 5-8 million for a dman it better be for a real number 1 like a shea weber type

Edited May 1, 2014 by nyqvististhefuture

[kipwinger 8,521]

Go hard for Niskanen, trade for Pavelski. Let the kids keep on developing. That alone would make the Wings loads better. Sure Pavelski doesn't solve the size problem, but holy s*** the guy could score. Gives the Wings options to. IF Weiss doesn't pan out, boom second line center. A legit one to. If Weiss is healthy and plays like he can, put Pavelski on Pasha's Wing and enjoy the show.

If you're going to give up the assets necessary to get Joe Pavelski why wouldn't you just go after Kesler instead? In addition to all the thing you mentioned about Pavelski, Kelser's also cheaper, bigger, faster, grittier, better defensively, and would take less to get considering he's demanded a trade.

I'm starting to get the feeling the objections you had yesterday were less about his cap, injury proneness, or trade value, and more to do with the fact that you just don't like Ryan Kesler.

[anthonyn66 89]

Why do we think we're gonna get someone like Pavelski without giving up a ton?

Let's not forget that unlike us, San Jose has not lost a trade in a very long time...

[marcaractac 3,962]

If you're going to give up the assets necessary to get Joe Pavelski why wouldn't you just go after Kesler instead? In addition to all the thing you mentioned about Pavelski, Kelser's also cheaper, bigger, faster, grittier, better defensively, and would take less to get considering he's demanded a trade.

I'm starting to get the feeling the objections you had yesterday were less about his cap, injury proneness, or trade value, and more to do with the fact that you just don't like Ryan Kesler.

Nothing to do with that. I already said having Kesler here would be awesome. It is just not wise to trade someone like Smith to get him when the defense is something that needs to be fixed as well. Even signing Niskanen, if Smith is gone there is still too much uncertainty on the 3rd pairing.

I'm fine with either Kesler or Pavelski. Pavelski is just gonna score a hell of a lot more, and that is something the top 6 can use a little bit more. But if you see other things I have posted, I also thought that Brent Burns would probably be a better option for this team than either.

[rick zombo 3,739]

Why do we think we're gonna get someone like Pavelski without giving up a ton?

Let's not forget that unlike us, San Jose has not lost a trade not won anything of meaning in a very long time EVER

Since we've decided to get a cute little dig in at Holland, I just thought I'd edit your post a bit.

[marcaractac 3,962]

Why do we think we're gonna get someone like Pavelski without giving up a ton?

Let's not forget that unlike us, San Jose has not lost a trade in a very long time...

Nobody is saying we wouldn't have to give up a lot. But changes have to be made in San Jose, and Pavelski is the type of player this team has needed for quite some time. A guy who can put up 40 goals in a season. I'd imagine if the price is right, anyone is available in San Jose right now. Obviously Joe and Marleau will be their first choices to move. But how high can their demand be after years and years of not getting it done?

[SimonSin 192]

Zero chance sj trades pavelski

Niskanen is highly overrated in my opinion .... To give him 5-6 mill per year ... More than kronwall is madness .... Yes he's had one really good year but he's not better than kronwall and we shouldn't go all crazy and offer him the moon

It helps his stats he's playing with Crosby malkin etc ...

If we're giving 5-8 million for a dman it better be for a real number 1 like a shea weber type

There's nobody out there like Shea Weber. Shea Weber's don't come around too often either. And 5 million is a big difference from 8 million. I think if the Wings could get Niskanen for around 5 million a year, they should do it. No matter how you look at it, he's going to get a raise and he's sort of what we need RIGHT NOW. I honestly don't watch too many Pens games so I couldn't tell you if he's overrated or not but he just seems like what we need. I could be wrong though.

[BadgerBob 297]

Why do we think we're gonna get someone like Pavelski without giving up a ton?

Let's not forget that unlike us, San Jose has not lost a trade in a very long time...

No way San Jose gives him up. Marleau and Thornton are 34. I think he's someone they're going to look to be the leader once those two are gone. The trade would have to be heavily in their favor for them to actually do it.

[marcaractac 3,962]

There's nobody out there like Shea Weber. Shea Weber's don't come around too often either. And 5 million is a big difference from 8 million. I think if the Wings could get Niskanen for around 5 million a year, they should do it. No matter how you look at it, he's going to get a raise and he's sort of what we need RIGHT NOW. I honestly don't watch too many Pens games so I couldn't tell you if he's overrated or not but he just seems like what we need. I could be wrong though.

He is the real deal. Look at the talent the Pens have on the back end, then look at his ice time. He has earned it. At his age, he is also only coming into his prime. Adding him would be as perfect a fit as adding Rafalski was back in 2007.

No way San Jose gives him up. Marleau and Thornton are 34. I think he's someone they're going to look to be the leader once those two are gone. The trade would have to be heavily in their favor for them to actually do it.

Crazier things have happened when GM's get desperate to keep their job.

[nyqvististhefuture 1,002]

There's nobody out there like Shea Weber. Shea Weber's don't come around too often either. And 5 million is a big difference from 8 million. I think if the Wings could get Niskanen for around 5 million a year, they should do it. No matter how you look at it, he's going to get a raise and he's sort of what we need RIGHT NOW. I honestly don't watch too many Pens games so I couldn't tell you if he's overrated or not but he just seems like what we need. I could be wrong though.

Just because it's what we need right now jump at anything and then regret the signing ... As hard as it is we gotta be patient and wait for the right time now that there's a salary cap

And with ouellet and marchenko getting ice time for sure next year and sproul backman and others I think the d situation might not be as bad as people think ... Sure I'd love an upgrade but I'm not willing to sacrifice the future for just anyone

We already did that for a player who had little impact and I don't expect to return

He is the real deal. Look at the talent the Pens have on the back end, then look at his ice time. He has earned it. At his age, he is also only coming into his prime. Adding him would be as perfect a fit as adding Rafalski was back in 2007.

Crazier things have happened when GM's get desperate to keep their job.

Can't compare niskanen to Rafalski geez ... Wait a few more years and see how niskanen does first , it's just one year basically

Jim carey also won the Vezina

Edited May 1, 2014 by nyqvististhefuture

[SimonSin 192]

He is the real deal. Look at the talent the Pens have on the back end, then look at his ice time. He has earned it. At his age, he is also only coming into his prime. Adding him would be as perfect a fit as adding Rafalski was back in 2007.

Crazier things have happened when GM's get desperate to keep their job.

I agree. I really hope Kenny pushes for him hard. He'll definitely be one of the most targeted guys come July 1st though.

[nyqvististhefuture 1,002]

Niskanen also got a lot more ice time because letang had a stroke And paul martin played like half a season and orpik isn't an offensive dman , only other d to play the full season is Maata and he's a rookie

Think that definetly helped niskanen get more pts dont see it happening again if letang plays all year and so do the other d's

[marcaractac 3,962]

We already did that for a player who had little impact and I don't expect to return

Can't compare niskanen to Rafalski geez ... Wait a few more years and see how niskanen does first , it's just one year basically

Jim carey also won the Vezina

I'm not comparing the 2 as players. I'm saying like Rafalski did at the time, he would fill a huge need if signed. He has also shown he is good for more than 1 year. This has just been his break out year. AND he can get it done in the playoffs. It would be insane to not sign him if given the chance. He is also good defensively. He will continue to get better, and would pretty much become the 2nd best dman on this team right off the bat.

Niskanen also got a lot more ice time because letang had a stroke And paul martin played like half a season and orpik isn't an offensive dman , only other d to play the full season is Maata and he's a rookie

Think that definetly helped niskanen get more pts dont see it happening again if letang plays all year and so do the other d's

They are all back now, and Niskanen is still getting more than 20 minutes per game. Because he has earned it and is producing. He can play on the PP and the PK. He's good, he's young, and he's what the Wings need. a HUGE upgrade over Q. Get rid of Kindl and Lashoff, and then have 2 of the kids be the 6th and 7th dman. If/when the time comes the kids are better than any of the 5 dmen ahead of them, moves can be made to accommodate that. Signing Niskanen doesn't jeopardize the future, it gives this team more assets to deal with. Kronwall, Dekeyser, Ericsson, Smith, and Niskanen. Those are 5 dmen that many other teams would love to have if any of the kids were to steal their job. It's not like we'd have a bunch of untradable contracts on the back end handcuffing the team.

[nyqvististhefuture 1,002]

I'm not comparing the 2 as players. I'm saying like Rafalski did at the time, he would fill a huge need if signed. He has also shown he is good for more than 1 year. This has just been his break out year. AND he can get it done in the playoffs. It would be insane to not sign him if given the chance. He is also good defensively. He will continue to get better, and would pretty much become the 2nd best dman on this team right off the bat.

They are all back now, and Niskanen is still getting more than 20 minutes per game. Because he has earned it and is producing. He can play on the PP and the PK. He's good, he's young, and he's what the Wings need. a HUGE upgrade over Q. Get rid of Kindl and Lashoff, and then have 2 of the kids be the 6th and 7th dman. If/when the time comes the kids are better than any of the 5 dmen ahead of them, moves can be made to accommodate that. Signing Niskanen doesn't jeopardize the future, it gives this team more assets to deal with. Kronwall, Dekeyser, Ericsson, Smith, and Niskanen. Those are 5 dmen that many other teams would love to have if any of the kids were to steal their job. It's not like we'd have a bunch of untradable contracts on the back end handcuffing the team.

2nd best d? I think Ericsson is better ... His loss was evident vs boston .... And he's had ken good playoff round and as good as Columbus were there still inexperienced and have yet to win a series , I'll wait and see what happens with ny first

The pens defense is all back but let's not forget they missed a ton of games so there obviously not all there like was the case with zetterberg when he returned

I'm not saying niskanen is garbage I just think he's overrated and I wouldn't risk signing him to that contract he's gonna require in guess well have to agree to disagree on this one

I personally think ouellet and marchenko in the lineup makes us already better than having kindl and lashoff and I think down the road there better than smith ... That still leaves us space for backman and others down the road

Wouldn't risk a bad contract with term just because we need a veteran dman right now

As old as Boyle is I'd rather sign him to one or 2 yrs till the kids mature and take over ... I really think ouellet will end up being our vlasic

[marcaractac 3,962]

2nd best d? I think Ericsson is better ... His loss was evident vs boston .... And he's had ken good playoff round and as good as Columbus were there still inexperienced and have yet to win a series , I'll wait and see what happens with ny first

The pens defense is all back but let's not forget they missed a ton of games so there obviously not all there like was the case with zetterberg when he returned

I'm not saying niskanen is garbage I just think he's overrated and I wouldn't risk signing him to that contract he's gonna require in guess well have to agree to disagree on this one

I personally think ouellet and marchenko in the lineup makes us already better than having kindl and lashoff and I think down the road there better than smith ... That still leaves us space for backman and others down the road

Wouldn't risk a bad contract with term just because we need a veteran dman right now

As old as Boyle is I'd rather sign him to one or 2 yrs till the kids mature and take over ... I really think ouellet will end up being our vlasic

If you think Ouellet and Marchenko as the 3rd pairing is gonna solve all the problems, im afraid I have some bad news. That is too much to expect out of 2 kids who have less then 10 NHL games played between them. Dmen take longer to develop than forwards. If you think the growing pains have been bad with smith....

Niskanen is a guy who can be signed on a long term contract, and be no older than 35 when it expires. it would be the perfect signing for this team. He has the skill, Holland has the cap space. in no way is this not a great option.

When it comes down to it, we still need proven players to play with the kids. Also, Boyle is awful now. He is old and slow, and has been invisible in the playoffs. No thanks. Niskanen is young, talented, and hopefully the pens get knocked out so he remains hungry.

Edited May 1, 2014 by marcaractac

[wings_fanatic 677]

If you think Ouellet and Marchenko as the 3rd pairing is gonna solve all the problems, im afraid I have some bad news. That is too much to expect out of 2 kids who have less then 10 NHL games played between them. Dmen take longer to develop than forwards. If you think the growing pains have been bad with smith....

Niskanen is a guy who can be signed on a long term contract, and be no older than 35 when it expires. it would be the perfect signing for this team. He has the skill, Holland has the cap space. in no way is this not a great option.

When it comes down to it, we still need proven players to play with the kids. Also, Boyle is awful now. He is old and slow, and has been invisible in the playoffs. No thanks. Niskanen is young, talented, and hopefully the pens get knocked out so he remains hungry.

I think Boyle simply needs a change. The entire San Jose team does the same thing every year in the playoffs... and end up disapponting their fans. Niskanen, while he seems like he would be a good signing, has only had one good season. Just good. Not great. I remember we signed Ian White because he had a good season the year before with the Sharks. He had a good first season with us, largely because he played with Nick Lidstrom. The next year he could not even make the lineup. I would rather go with Danny Boyle, someone proven to be good over a number of seasons and quite frankly we need a little more veteran presence on our blue line. Kronners and Boyle would be 2 great leaders of the blue line for us and I feel our powerplay would be better with Boyle as well.

[Dabura 12,207]

He's okay, but, his defense is trash and the jets would be trading from a place of strength.

I'd want him more for the power forward side of his game, I think. He's not perfect, but, given our needs, he's pretty close (assuming a reasonable asking price). I feel like he needs a fresh start with a good organization, a good coach, a good team, a winning culture.

[marcaractac 3,962]

I think Boyle simply needs a change. The entire San Jose team does the same thing every year in the playoffs... and end up disapponting their fans. Niskanen, while he seems like he would be a good signing, has only had one good season. Just good. Not great. I remember we signed Ian White because he had a good season the year before with the Sharks. He had a good first season with us, largely because he played with Nick Lidstrom. The next year he could not even make the lineup. I would rather go with Danny Boyle, someone proven to be good over a number of seasons and quite frankly we need a little more veteran presence on our blue line. Kronners and Boyle would be 2 great leaders of the blue line for us and I feel our powerplay would be better with Boyle as well.

I don't think Boyle is in a situation where he needs change, he is just old. He has lost a step, and will be nothing close to what he used to be. Niskanen hasn't magically become a good player this season. He has been steadily improving each year. That isn't a sign of having a big year than disappearing again. That is a sign of things to come. He is right at the age where dmen tend to break out, and he will only get better. Pens can't afford him, so he is as good as gone. We needed a long term fix on the blueline for a few seasons now, and Suter has been the only option so far, but he chose Minny. Chances to get a guy like Niskanen without giving up assets doesn't come along very often. Holland absolutely has to make a legit attempt at luring him here.

If we can get him here, and trade for some along the lines of Kesler or Pavelski without having to give up a defensmen, suddenly this team is maybe a year away from being a serious contender again. I only think a year away because I figure there will have to be a deep run ending in heartbreak to come first so the kids can learn what it takes to win, ala Blackhawks in 2009.

Edited May 1, 2014 by marcaractac

[Dabura 12,207]

Broken record, but Niskanen would be a huge gamble. He's had a really good season, while playing for a contract, on the Pittsburgh Penguins, with Jacques Martin working his evil strategic voodoo. For that, Niskanen is going to score a massive contract. Just so incredibly massive you won't even believe it. And it'll probably be a team that needs to reach the cap floor. And everyone will probably be laughing at that GM in a year's time. And we'll probably want to laugh, but then we'll remember we have Franzen. But then we'll rationalize Franzen as a tremendous value.

[kipwinger 8,521]

Broken record, but Niskanen would be a huge gamble. He's had a really good season, while playing for a contract, on the Pittsburgh Penguins, with Jacques Martin working his evil strategic voodoo. For that, Niskanen is going to score a massive contract. Just so incredibly massive you won't even believe it. And it'll probably be a team that needs to reach the cap floor. And everyone will probably be laughing at that GM in a year's time. And we'll probably want to laugh, but then we'll remember we have Franzen. But then we'll rationalize Franzen as a tremendous value.

Yeah, wouldn't want to marginally overpay for a good young talent (Erhoff, Wisniewski, Niskanen) when there are bargains everywhere you look (Commodore, White, Colaiacovo).

We've been down this road before. Just overpay for Niskanen by a million dollars if necessary (5.5 for 5 years) and let him grow into it. Either that or we can A) do nothing to our defense (which seems to be working great so far, ugh) or B) sign some marginal journeyman or aging vet and hope they produce over their heads (which I'm sure will totally work this time too, double ugh).

[nyqvististhefuture 1,002]

If you think Ouellet and Marchenko as the 3rd pairing is gonna solve all the problems, im afraid I have some bad news. That is too much to expect out of 2 kids who have less then 10 NHL games played between them. Dmen take longer to develop than forwards. If you think the growing pains have been bad with smith....

Niskanen is a guy who can be signed on a long term contract, and be no older than 35 when it expires. it would be the perfect signing for this team. He has the skill, Holland has the cap space. in no way is this not a great option.

When it comes down to it, we still need proven players to play with the kids. Also, Boyle is awful now. He is old and slow, and has been invisible in the playoffs. No thanks. Niskanen is young, talented, and hopefully the pens get knocked out so he remains hungry.

Lmao what are you brad Barrett? ( wrestling joke) marchenko played with men in Russia though and was an all star in his first ahl season so I don't think he's your typical rookie ... Same with ouellet who's smart and knows how to play and makes the right moves .... Vlasic played at a young age as well but he was good

I agree it takes defensemen longer to develop but I do think those 2 would be an upgrade over lashoff kindl

It can be a not grade option if niskanen is a bust .... If you tell me you'd be so high on niskanen if he had a 20 pt season this year and was a ufa I'd say you'd be lieing

I'm not willing to take a chance on a guy who had a career year ... I'd need more good seasons to take sign a guy longterm

Again guess well agree to disagree on this one

Yeah, wouldn't want to marginally overpay for a good young talent (Erhoff, Wisniewski, Niskanen) when there are bargains everywhere you look (Commodore, White, Colaiacovo).

We've been down this road before. Just overpay for Niskanen by a million dollars if necessary (5.5 for 5 years) and let him grow into it. Either that or we can A) do nothing to our defense (which seems to be working great so far, ugh) or B) sign some marginal journeyman or aging vet and hope they produce over their heads (which I'm sure will totally work this time too, double ugh).

Or he can be a complete disaster and people can come here and ***** at holland for making such a stupid move

[marcaractac 3,962]

Yeah, wouldn't want to marginally overpay for a good young talent (Erhoff, Wisniewski, Niskanen) when there are bargains everywhere you look (Commodore, White, Colaiacovo).

We've been down this road before. Just overpay for Niskanen by a million dollars if necessary (5.5 for 5 years) and let him grow into it. Either that or we can A) do nothing to our defense (which seems to be working great so far, ugh) or B) sign some marginal journeyman or aging vet and hope they produce over their heads (which I'm sure will totally work this time too, double ugh).

The planets have aligned for Holland to upgrade the blueline through UFA. In the past, there were cap worries. Now, there is not. No more excuses. Holland needs to make it so unless Niskanen flat out does not want to play in Detroit, that he will come here. He needs to be willing to match any contract for him within reason.

Edit: I'm not gonna quote you cause im too lazy. I agree Ouellet and Marchenko would likely be an improvement over kindl and lashoff (but who wouldn't?), it is a MUCH bigger risk going into the season with a rookie 3rd pairing than it would be to sign Niskanen. We need to vastly improve the D, not potentially marginally improve it.

Edited May 1, 2014 by marcaractac

[Bannedforlife 403]

Broken record, but Niskanen would be a huge gamble. He's had a really good season, while playing for a contract, on the Pittsburgh Penguins, with Jacques Martin working his evil strategic voodoo. For that, Niskanen is going to score a massive contract. Just so incredibly massive you won't even believe it. And it'll probably be a team that needs to reach the cap floor. And everyone will probably be laughing at that GM in a year's time. And we'll probably want to laugh, but then we'll remember we have Franzen. But then we'll rationalize Franzen as a tremendous value.

For the record, we're dangerously close to being a salary floor team ourselves.