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Andy Pred 48

Next Seasons Needs/Team Future

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How do we have a chance in hell at Krug? Has someone floated a juicy rumor or something?

As for Boyle - we could do a lot worse, even if it's for two years (talking him down from three). It's not like we're hurting for cap space or we've got a stacked blue line.

"DAT MARCHENKO THO!"

Sure, give him a spot. Boyle and [one of the kids] don't have to be mutually exclusive. Indeed, I'd rather have a solid top-four guy and [one of the kids] than [two of the kids].

I think I'd prefer Niskanen, but Boyle could be a good option.

so is trading 4 players and a 1st for wheeler when his cap hit is 5.6 mil over the next 5 years..no thanks

I'm not saying that's a good idea. I just have no idea where you're coming from in pretty much everything you're saying. But whatever floats your boat.

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what do you guys think happens with the wings backup role?

I think monster finds a starting job somewhere and mraz stays in GR one more year....

if that's the case, who do you think we sign?

I'd love for brodeur to come but I don't see it happening so what about elliot?

Don't see him staying in St. Louis but would he want to sign as a backup?

I'd want kenny to sign a guy that pushes howie for the starting job and I think either of those guys are capable of that.

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Said it about Iginla, and now I've apparently got to say it about Boyle...

The guy's a loser. I don't want any more washed up losers on our team. Right now every guy we've got on the roster is a winner...Stanley Cup winners....Calder Cup winners.

We need more winners. Not old farts that can't get it done.

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Not a fan of Boyle at all. I keep seeing White all over again. He is small, old, and isn't very good defensively-we were 16th last year in D. I do agree that he does fit Hollands patch and plug approach of the last 5 years or so. Same thing if Alfie returns. Those type of moves = another year fighting to just make the PO's are an early exit. At what point is winning the SC going to become the goal again?

Edited by Richdg

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what do you guys think happens with the wings backup role?

I think monster finds a starting job somewhere and mraz stays in GR one more year....

if that's the case, who do you think we sign?

I'd love for brodeur to come but I don't see it happening so what about elliot?

Don't see him staying in St. Louis but would he want to sign as a backup?

I'd want kenny to sign a guy that pushes howie for the starting job and I think either of those guys are capable of that.

I wouldn't be opposed to grabbing Elliott, Emery or Johnson. I think the issue with those guys (outside of re-signing with their team, or another) is that Detroit clearly has a limited window for a back-up goalie next season. It's basically going to be one season, then Mrazek will be up and battling with Howie. I'm still of the mindset that I'd like to see Mrazek play the year in GR and get in a full season.

I think that leaves the Wings with two candidates for the back-up position - an older guy on his way out, or a younger-ish guy with something to prove. While they may not be popular options, I could see the Wings rolling the dice on someone like Nabokov or MacDonald. Alternatively, I wouldn't mind seeing someone like Greiss, Montoya or Peters for a season - all guys want to show they're capable NHL goalies.

My similarly related, but possibly insane suggestion is to give Thomas McCollum a one-year deal to prove he can play at the NHL level before he parts ways with Detroit. He had a pretty solid year in GR, and I think it'd be a nice to see him play a year behind Howard. I actually think he'd prove up to the task, despite his previous outings in Detroit.

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I wouldn't be opposed to grabbing Elliott, Emery or Johnson. I think the issue with those guys (outside of re-signing with their team, or another) is that Detroit clearly has a limited window for a back-up goalie next season. It's basically going to be one season, then Mrazek will be up and battling with Howie. I'm still of the mindset that I'd like to see Mrazek play the year in GR and get in a full season.

I think that leaves the Wings with two candidates for the back-up position - an older guy on his way out, or a younger-ish guy with something to prove. While they may not be popular options, I could see the Wings rolling the dice on someone like Nabokov or MacDonald. Alternatively, I wouldn't mind seeing someone like Greiss, Montoya or Peters for a season - all guys want to show they're capable NHL goalies.

My similarly related, but possibly insane suggestion is to give Thomas McCollum a one-year deal to prove he can play at the NHL level before he parts ways with Detroit. He had a pretty solid year in GR, and I think it'd be a nice to see him play a year behind Howard. I actually think he'd prove up to the task, despite his previous outings in Detroit.

If we signed Emery we'd get a backup goalie and the enforcer everyone seems to want. Win - win.

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Said it about Iginla, and now I've apparently got to say it about Boyle...

The guy's a loser. I don't want any more washed up losers on our team. Right now every guy we've got on the roster is a winner...Stanley Cup winners....Calder Cup winners.

We need more winners. Not old farts that can't get it done.

Not a fan of Boyle at all. I keep seeing White all over again. He is small, old, and isn't very good defensively-we were 16th last year in D. I do agree that he does fit Hollands patch and plug approach of the last 5 years or so. Same thing if Alfie returns. Those type of moves = another year fighting to just make the PO's are an early exit. At what point is winning the SC going to become the goal again?

I have to disagree. I think the secret ingredient in San Jose has been Jumbo Joe's "leadership". I think Boyle has proven to be up to the task over the past number of years in the post-season - 3 out of the past 4 he's been nearly a PPG guy from the back-end. I think it's worth the risk.

Moreover, comparing White and Boyle is kind of absurd. White has nowhere near the pedigree that Boyle does. Prior to coming to Detroit, White had never put up more than 30 points at the NHL level - Boyle did that this season in what was considered an off year for him. I have my reservations with the move - his age, pairing him with DeKeyser = soft pairing, pairing him with E = slower pairing, but I think he'll do a lot more good than harm.

I don't think Boyle would just be used as a "patch" to get into the playoffs here, but as someone who can help guys like Sproul and Marchenko transition to the NHL level. Say what you will about the guy at his current level of play, but he's played a long time on the PP, and I'm sure he could be of some help to the kids.

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Said it about Iginla, and now I've apparently got to say it about Boyle...

The guy's a loser. I don't want any more washed up losers on our team. Right now every guy we've got on the roster is a winner...Stanley Cup winners....Calder Cup winners.

We need more winners. Not old farts that can't get it done.

Hasek WAS a loser. Stuart WAS a loser.

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Said it about Iginla, and now I've apparently got to say it about Boyle...

The guy's a loser. I don't want any more washed up losers on our team. Right now every guy we've got on the roster is a winner...Stanley Cup winners....Calder Cup winners.

We need more winners. Not old farts that can't get it done.

Ray bourque was an old fart who couldn't get it done till he got traded

Every player is different I think just think for whatever reason San Jose chokes every year , wouldn't pin point a specific guy I think it's a collective thing

And boule won a cup in Tampa .... For 1-2 yrs max in detroit he's be good fit until ouellet sproul marchenko are ready for increased ice time

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Hasek WAS a loser. Stuart WAS a loser.

You got me. I thought all Red Wings entered the NHL having already won the Stanley Cup. But then you dropped this knowledge on me and WHAMMO, reality check.

Boyle, Iginla, Alfie, and everyone like them are losers. Yes they've had successful careers and blah, blah, blah, but I'd rather we give the spots to young guys and let them develop a winning culture by...ya know...winning (and perhaps losing) together like they did in GR, rather than give their roster spots to a bunch of old hacks who haven't ever won anything.

Realistically we're years from another Cup anyway. Lets use those years developing a new core of winners instead of washed up has-beens.

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2 years ago Boyle had 48 points, last year he had 20 points in 48 games, this year he had 36. The three lowest totals of his career, when he has played the full season (last year being the lockout). That is a negative slope for you stat geeks. He is clearly declining fast. At 5-11/190 and turns 38 this summer he is done or real close to it. SJ is a much better team than we are atm and IMHO he would really struggle trying to be a top 4 guy for us. His mins played per game have also been declining.

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2 years ago Boyle had 48 points, last year he had 20 points in 48 games, this year he had 36. The three lowest totals of his career, when he has played the full season (last year being the lockout). That is a negative slope for you stat geeks. He is clearly declining fast. At 5-11/190 and turns 38 this summer he is done or real close to it. SJ is a much better team than we are atm and IMHO he would really struggle trying to be a top 4 guy for us. His mins played per game have also been declining.

Oh for sure, because at 21:16 a game he would have really gotten lost in the shuffle with the other guys in Detroit's top 4 - DeKeyser (21:38), Ericsson (21:14) and Quincey (20:48). Fact is, the guy would be an asset. At 1-2 seasons, he's at worst a PP specialist and has experience to pass on to the younger kids.

This isn't using Bert, Cleary and Samuelsson, taking up the spots of Nyquist, Tatar and Jurco because Kenny doesn't think they're ready. It's utilizing a veteran player who is going to help the PP in the short-term and possibly pass on some knowledge to a Sproul or Marchenko for the long-term. It's not like this team is hard up for cap space, and throwing both Sproul and Marchenko into the top 4 mix right now would be a mistake, in my opinion. This is a situation where bridging that gap between the vets and the kids is necessary.

Edited by Jesusberg

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Oh for sure, because at 21:16 a game he would have really gotten lost in the shuffle with the other guys in Detroit's top 4 - DeKeyser (21:38), Ericsson (21:14) and Quincey (20:48). Fact is, the guy would be an asset. At 1-2 seasons, he's at worst a PP specialist and has experience to pass on to the younger kids.

This isn't using Bert, Cleary and Samuelsson, taking up the spots of Nyquist, Tatar and Jurco because Kenny doesn't think they're ready. It's utilizing a veteran player who is going to help the PP in the short-term and possibly pass on some knowledge to a Sproul or Marchenko for the long-term. It's not like this team is hard up for cap space, and throwing both Sproul and Marchenko into the top 4 mix right now would be a mistake, in my opinion. This is a situation where bridging that gap between the vets and the kids is necessary.

Wasn't Alfie supposed to help on the PP with his "booming" shot? Good in theory, bad in practice.

Also, if you're not planning on winning for a couple of years anyway, and the money you spend on Boyle is likely to be wasted (or at best only have subsidiary effects), when why not use that money to "overpay" for a young guy like Niskanen and have him for the five or six years during his prime as opposed to the two or three years leading up to retirement (as is our norm).

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Dan Boyle is not the one missing piece. They also have several young D coming along, it's time to see what they can do. Barring another transaction signing Boyle fills the 7 d spots and prevents that from happening.

For the #2 goalie, when you have a set #1, you're limited to guys who have shown they can't be a #1, either because of youth or poor play. I don't think it matters who they sign, he won't be anything special. I don't think Gustavson will get a starting job though, he's hurt too much and wasn't that impressive

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Oh for sure, because at 21:16 a game he would have really gotten lost in the shuffle with the other guys in Detroit's top 4 - DeKeyser (21:38), Ericsson (21:14) and Quincey (20:48). Fact is, the guy would be an asset. At 1-2 seasons, he's at worst a PP specialist and has experience to pass on to the younger kids.

This isn't using Bert, Cleary and Samuelsson, taking up the spots of Nyquist, Tatar and Jurco because Kenny doesn't think they're ready. It's utilizing a veteran player who is going to help the PP in the short-term and possibly pass on some knowledge to a Sproul or Marchenko for the long-term. It's not like this team is hard up for cap space, and throwing both Sproul and Marchenko into the top 4 mix right now would be a mistake, in my opinion. This is a situation where bridging that gap between the vets and the kids is necessary.

If Boyle is in Detroit, that means Sproul and Marchenko are in GR. How is he supposed to teach them when they are all in different places? Doesn't work like that.

We need a true top 4 guy. No he isn't going to block any of the youth. 2 years from now-when Ouellet, Sproul, and Marchenko are out of minor league options, we have 2 Dmen in the mid/late 20's in Smith and Dekeyser, 2 guys in the mid/late 30's in Kronwall and Ericsson. That means we need 3 more Dmen at a minimum. There is plenty of room here long term.

Holland needs to stop with the band aid approach and get real players that we can keep for 7+ years and build a team around.

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If Boyle is in Detroit, that means Sproul and Marchenko are in GR. How is he supposed to teach them when they are all in different places? Doesn't work like that.

We need a true top 4 guy. No he isn't going to block any of the youth. 2 years from now-when Ouellet, Sproul, and Marchenko are out of minor league options, we have 2 Dmen in the mid/late 20's in Smith and Dekeyser, 2 guys in the mid/late 30's in Kronwall and Ericsson. That means we need 3 more Dmen at a minimum. There is plenty of room here long term.

Holland needs to stop with the band aid approach and get real players that we can keep for 7+ years and build a team around.

Perhaps I should have specified, but I'm almost certain that this team is going to waive Lashoff and/or move Kindl. Lashoff is nothing special, and Kindl has basically shown his hand, and it's not pretty. He doesn't work here. My ideal defense next season runs something like, Kronwall-Smith, DeKeyser-Boyle, Ericsson-Sproul/Marchenko.

Would I like Niskanen instead of Boyle? For sure, but I also think he's going to be asking for a lot more money and term. At this point I think Boyle serves to shape the younger kids into top 4 guys. I'm not being smart here, but what are you guys' ideal scenario for the defense over the next two seasons? I'm actually curious.

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Wasn't Alfie supposed to help on the PP with his "booming" shot? Good in theory, bad in practice.

Also, if you're not planning on winning for a couple of years anyway, and the money you spend on Boyle is likely to be wasted (or at best only have subsidiary effects), when why not use that money to "overpay" for a young guy like Niskanen and have him for the five or six years during his prime as opposed to the two or three years leading up to retirement (as is our norm).

Alfie was pretty good on our PP

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Just finishing off last year. What a middle of the pack blah season it was.

We were 15th in O, 16th in D, and 15th in points. Our PP was 7th in goals scored, but we were only 12th in PK.

As we all know, we are losing: Legwand, Alfie, Bert, Cleary, Sammy, and Q. Combined they scored 40 goals for us last season. That "production" needs to be replaced. Of course we spent 16 million to get those great numbers!

Most if not all of those 40 goals can and should be replaced in house. If you take the numbers for Tatar, Jurco, Sheahan, Dekeyser, Smith, Glendening and spread their production over 80 games, you pick up another 25 goals. Weiss should be able to add 15+ goals. That keeps us even. But that is only middle of the pack. To be a solid top 10 O we will need to add another 25+ goals to our totals to do it. How important is being a top 10 team offensively? All 10 of the top 10 made the playoffs this year.

As for the D again we were middle of the pack. 16th. To become a top 10 D we need to shave off 20+ goals based on this years numbers. How important is being a top 10 D? 9 of the top10 made the PO's this year,-only NJ failed to do so. Of the 5 teams still in the PO's, 4 were top 10 D's, with Chicago being the 12 D.

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Perhaps I should have specified, but I'm almost certain that this team is going to waive Lashoff and/or move Kindl. Lashoff is nothing special, and Kindl has basically shown his hand, and it's not pretty. He doesn't work here. My ideal defense next season runs something like, Kronwall-Smith, DeKeyser-Boyle, Ericsson-Sproul/Marchenko.

Would I like Niskanen instead of Boyle? For sure, but I also think he's going to be asking for a lot more money and term. At this point I think Boyle serves to shape the younger kids into top 4 guys. I'm not being smart here, but what are you guys' ideal scenario for the defense over the next two seasons? I'm actually curious.

Kindl may get moved, but I think Lashoff will stay as the 7th. he is a decent 6/7th Dman and cheap. No need to move him. Just play him less. But again, Boyle just doesn't fit. yes I do see Holland making a move like him-thus my White reference from before.

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Right or wrong, don't ya just kinda see this happening? Like more than any other free agent defenceman, doesn't Boyle seem like the Holland thing to do?

But I think Holland is realizing that his tactics haven't borne the fruit he hoped they would, and so he may be looking to change tack.

Yes, Boyle is a classic Holland signing, but Holland seems to realize that those classic signings haven't paid off so well lately. I'm looking (hoping?) for him to make a big splashy move to shake things up. I think he's done with patching things and hoping for miracles.

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You got me. I thought all Red Wings entered the NHL having already won the Stanley Cup. But then you dropped this knowledge on me and WHAMMO, reality check.

Boyle, Iginla, Alfie, and everyone like them are losers. Yes they've had successful careers and blah, blah, blah, but I'd rather we give the spots to young guys and let them develop a winning culture by...ya know...winning (and perhaps losing) together like they did in GR, rather than give their roster spots to a bunch of old hacks who haven't ever won anything.

Realistically we're years from another Cup anyway. Lets use those years developing a new core of winners instead of washed up has-beens.

Yeah Rafalski was a loser too... Hell even Hull and Robitallie were losers.

Gimme break. Kip, ur not usually one to hold irrational bias but ur doing just that at the moment.

Sproul and Ouellet are still big ? And we have money to spend. Signing a Boyle wouldn't be a terrible loser decision.

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