Next Seasons Needs/Team Future

[rick zombo 3,739]

If Neal would stop his diving and cheap shots, I'd give up a lot to get him. He has 4 more years left on a deal with a very reasonable $5 mil cap hit. I think he's a d-bag, but the Wings have had plenty of d-bags on the roster.

I have to ask.

Considering who won't be back (Quincey, Bert, Legwand, Sammy, Tootoo) who on the Wings roster is a "d-bag"? And they most certainly don't have any Neal level douchey guys.

[DickieDunn 2,571]

I have to ask.

Considering who won't be back (Quincey, Bert, Legwand, Sammy, Tootoo) who on the Wings roster is a "d-bag"? And they most certainly don't have any Neal level douchey guys.

Konstantinov was one of the dirtiest players int he NHL. Shanahan, Chelios, Hull are all big names who had of ice personality issues. Probert was an alcoholic and drug addict who thought that his status enabled him to do pretty much whatever he wanted when you or I would have been in prison. There was that story about Tatar blaring loud music among other things at all hours in the condo he was subletting from Helm to the point where the other residents wanted him evicted.

Edited May 19, 2014 by DickieDunn

[rick zombo 3,739]

Konstantinov was one of the dirtiest players int he NHL. Shanahan, Chelios, Hull are all big names who had of ice personality issues. Probert was an alcoholic and drug addict who thought that his status enabled him to do pretty much whatever he wanted when you or I would have been in prison. There was that story about Tatar blaring loud music among other things at all hours in the condo he was subletting from Helm to the point where the other residents wanted him evicted.

Those guys are all former Wings.

Also, Tatar getting a noise complaint is nothing like Neal trying to turn guys noggins into overripe melons with a side of scrambled eggs. Just saying’.

I fuss by now you can tell that I want no part of Neal on the Red Wings.

[DatsyukianDekes 2,428]

Konstantinov was one of the dirtiest players int he NHL. Shanahan, Chelios, Hull are all big names who had of ice personality issues. Probert was an alcoholic and drug addict who thought that his status enabled him to do pretty much whatever he wanted when you or I would have been in prison. There was that story about Tatar blaring loud music among other things at all hours in the condo he was subletting from Helm to the point where the other residents wanted him evicted.

People complain to complain. Where I used to live in an apartment a lady complained because my alarm clock went off at 5AM, and I had to be at work at 6AM.

s***, I would have went next door and partied with Tatar if I was them.

[Dabura 12,207]

I'm assuming Neal would clean up his act. He's only 26. His soul can still be saved.

If Neal would stop his diving and cheap shots, I'd give up a lot to get him. He has 4 more years left on a deal with a very reasonable $5 mil cap hit. I think he's a d-bag, but the Wings have had plenty of d-bags on the roster.

What do you think it'd cost to get him?

[dirtydangles 1,328]

Neal is a very productive player and has the size too. However, we shouldn't be moving assets for wingers when we have an abundance of young wingers and Mantha on the way. We should actually be moving winger(s) for a future top 6 C. We just don't need Neal enough to cough up the assets for him (apparently they want multiple wingers for Crosby and Malkin). I WOULD however like to buy low on Letang if they are selling. Letang is the type of high end RD that we need and could come at a discount due to recent health problems and the need for change in Pitts - perfect storm for us. I don't buy the concern for the future that Letang may suffer more strokes because he will be monitored closely for the rest of his life and his stroke came from a PFO and not a clotting disorder or something genetic. All of his other risk factors for stroke such as cholesterol, lipids, bp, blood sugar etc will be lower than the average person as he is an athlete.

[Echolalia 2,961]

Even ignoring the moral issues behind Neal's behavior, the guy has been suspended what, three times already? He's compromising the team he plays for when he gets suspended, and everyone else is left to pick up the slack while Neal serves his punishment. The Wings have already been struggling to ice bodies without selfish and irresponsible actions taking people off the ice. Then add to that the fact that he's endangering others while he's at it.

He's incredibly talented, but his suspension history is making him unreliable. I think coaches like Babcock would go crazy having to deal with that kind of player.

[Rivalred 630]

Folks are pretty darn high on Mantha and he hsnt even played his first game in the AHL or NHL

[Richdg 267]

Dirty....letang. Some things. Last I saw, the media was saying the doctors think he had his stroke because he has a hole in his heart that never filled in when he grew up. That would be a potential long term thing. That being said, over the last 4 seasons, Letang has averaged .74 points per game. That is great! The bad is, he has missed over 1/3 of the games over the last 4 seasons. he is a modern day Coffey. great O, no doubt. But he doesn't really play D. He isn't physical either. All that being said, this is the guy that Holland will pick up........

[Dabura 12,207]

Even ignoring the moral issues behind Neal's behavior, the guy has been suspended what, three times already? He's compromising the team he plays for when he gets suspended, and everyone else is left to pick up the slack while Neal serves his punishment. The Wings have already been struggling to ice bodies without selfish and irresponsible actions taking people off the ice. Then add to that the fact that he's endangering others while he's at it.

He's incredibly talented, but his suspension history is making him unreliable. I think coaches like Babcock would go crazy having to deal with that kind of player.

I have to believe that being a Penguin has something to do with it. Malkin's a thug. Orpik's an assassin. Crosby's no boy scout. Remember when Jokinen unloaded on one of our guys with a couple thousand crosschecks? It's the Penguin way. Regardless, I have to believe it'd be made exceedingly clear to Neal, probably in a private chat with Babs, that if he's going to continue with that stuff as a Red Wing, he's not going to play.

I suspect he's never really been tought how to use his size and mean streak effectively. I just get that impression when I watch him play. Babs could work on that with him. Maybe Chelios could share some honest words of wisdom. I dunno, I don't see it as a really big issue. We don't play that way, he's 26, he can change, problem solved, everyone comes away happy.

Neal is a very productive player and has the size too. However, we shouldn't be moving assets for wingers when we have an abundance of young wingers and Mantha on the way. We should actually be moving winger(s) for a future top 6 C. We just don't need Neal enough to cough up the assets for him (apparently they want multiple wingers for Crosby and Malkin). I WOULD however like to buy low on Letang if they are selling. Letang is the type of high end RD that we need and could come at a discount due to recent health problems and the need for change in Pitts - perfect storm for us. I don't buy the concern for the future that Letang may suffer more strokes because he will be monitored closely for the rest of his life and his stroke came from a PFO and not a clotting disorder or something genetic. All of his other risk factors for stroke such as cholesterol, lipids, bp, blood sugar etc will be lower than the average person as he is an athlete.

You'd say no to Neal because we have an abundance of young wingers on the way, but you'd say yes to Letang, even though we have an avalanche of young defensemen on the way? (Ouellet, Sproul, Marchenko, Backman, Jensen, Almqvist. Plus Smith and DeKeyser.)

I'd want Neal because he's a first-line 40-goal scorer in his prime who'd bring a couple dimensions to the fold that we're otherwise sorely lacking. Same basic idea as the Shanahan trade. We didn't need another winger, but this was Brendan Shanahan. If you can add a Shanahan or a Neal, you do it. Especially if you're a team of diminutive cream puff choir boys who had their collective ass handed to them a few months ago by a new rival team that they'll be seeing a whole lot of in the coming years, a rival team they'll most likely have to go through if they want to make a real run in the playoffs. We do need to start thinking about our future @ center, but adding Neal wouldn't bar us from acquiring a high-end centerman.

Personally, I don't see Letang getting moved. He's their #1 defenseman and they may be losing Niskanen and/or Orpik. Losing Neal would be a less serious blow, especially if they'd be getting a productive young top-six forward on an early contract (e.g. Nyquist, Tatar) in return.

[Datsyukian-Deke 722]

I don't know why people keep throwing these big names out there for possible trades. The chances that Holland trades picks and prospects for a big name instead of trying to sign people for free after July 1st is slim to none. The only way he would trade for a Neal, or any other comparable player would be if a deal fell in his lap he couldn't refuse and that doesn't happen in the NHL anymore. We will try to sign a few free agents and maybe make a small minor trade or two but I don't see any blockbuster trades in our future.

[Salviaman 104]

Remember when we traded for Robert Lang? Kyle Calder? Matthieu Schneider? Legwand was more useless than these guys. Holland hasn't landed a good trade for the team in a long tone.

[DickieDunn 2,571]

Konstantinov was one of the dirtiest players int he NHL. Shanahan, Chelios, Hull are all big names who had of ice personality issues. Probert was an alcoholic and drug addict who thought that his status enabled him to do pretty much whatever he wanted when you or I would have been in prison. There was that story about Tatar blaring loud music among other things at all hours in the condo he was subletting from Helm to the point where the other residents wanted him evicted.

Those guys are all former Wings.

Also, Tatar getting a noise complaint is nothing like Neal trying to turn guys noggins into overripe melons with a side of scrambled eggs. Just saying’.

I fuss by now you can tell that I want no part of Neal on the Red Wings.

Have had. Meaning past. And of you've lived in an apartment and had a first shift job and loud neighbors you'd see the issue. Some people just like to complain but not having consideration for neighbors speaks to a lack of maturity

[Dabura 12,207]

I don't know why people keep throwing these big names out there for possible trades. The chances that Holland trades picks and prospects for a big name instead of trying to sign people for free after July 1st is slim to none. The only way he would trade for a Neal, or any other comparable player would be if a deal fell in his lap he couldn't refuse and that doesn't happen in the NHL anymore. We will try to sign a few free agents and maybe make a small minor trade or two but I don't see any blockbuster trades in our future.

I don't disagree with any of this. But, the topic is Next Season's Needs/Team Future. I think we, like every other non-contender, need a top-four defenseman and a big scoring winger. We wouldn't get both in free agency, so the (admittedly completely unrealistic) thought is we'd land one in free agency and trade up for the other.

The one thing we have going for us on the let's-stupidly-hope-for-a-big-trade front is the future logjam on the back end. Ouellet, Sproul, Marchenko, Backman, Jensen, Almqvist. And Smith and DeKeyser. And Kindl and Lashoff. And maybe even Mitchell Wheaton, in a couple years. That's a whole lotta bodies. Also, as we all know, this UFA class is shaping up to be the worst in recent memory if not of all time - so, landing a big name will almost certainly require beating out half the league in a bidding war, which isn't exactly Holland's cup of tea these days. So, hurray for blockbuster trades and misplaced optimism!

[Richdg 267]

Dabura.....The idea that Chelios could teach Neal how to not be a D-bag is kinda funny. So is the moral outrage about having such players on the team BTW............

Yes Holland has been sub par the last few years in terms of going out and replacing stars. Not filling holes, which is what he tried to do. We truly need 2-3 top 6 forwards and 1 true top pair Dman. There are very few of either option in UFA anymore-a trend that will continue, and it takes 3-5 years for draft picks to develop if they ever do. Tht really only leaves one option left: trades. Holland does need to get off of his A$$ and make some deals. Not kick the tires, but nothing fight. That is not an option anymore. We need talent and we need now. Yes some deals will fail to work out, it happens. Some will work. As long as it is more of the later than the former, we are ahead.

[krsmith17 7,191]

UFA's - Sign - Vanek, Niskanen, Giguire

UFA's - Let Walk - Alfredsson, Samuelsson, Bertuzzi, Cleary, Legwand, Quincey, Gustavsson

* if we cannot sign Vanek, sign Alfredsson instead.

RFA's - Sign - Tatar, Sheahan, DeKeyser, Ferraro, Callahan, *Emmerton, *Nestrasil, *Almquist

RFA's - Let Walk - Parkes, Coetzee, Fournier, Nicastro

* if Emmerton and/or Nestrasil pass through waivers (they should), sign them both to two-way contracts.

Same goes for Almquist although I think he would opt to go back to Sweden.

Buyout - Tootoo

Trade - Andersson, Kindl (for draft picks)

Tatar - Datsyuk - Vanek

Nyquist - Zetterberg - Franzen

Helm - Weiss - Sheahan

Miller - Glendenning - Abdelkader

Ferraro, Callahan

Kronwall - Ericsson

DeKeyser - Niskanen

Smith - Ouellet

Lashoff

Howard

Giguire

Jurco - Janmark - Pulkkinen

Hoggan - Athanasiou - Mantha

Tvrdon - Nestrasil - Frk

Campbell - Emmerton - Nastasiuk

Aubry

Paetsch - Sproul

Backman - Marchenko

Evans - Jensen

Nedomlel

Mrazek

Paterson

Edited May 21, 2014 by krsmith17

[wings4thecup06 504]

Dirty....letang. Some things. Last I saw, the media was saying the doctors think he had his stroke because he has a hole in his heart that never filled in when he grew up. That would be a potential long term thing. That being said, over the last 4 seasons, Letang has averaged .74 points per game. That is great! The bad is, he has missed over 1/3 of the games over the last 4 seasons. he is a modern day Coffey. great O, no doubt. But he doesn't really play D. He isn't physical either. All that being said, this is the guy that Holland will pick up........

Not to get too technical, but the hole in the heart is very fixable by surgery these days. I don't know whether Letang did or is scheduled to have surgery, but I wouldn't be surprised if he did, because its a lifelong risk without some kind of treatment .

[LeftWinger 4,949]

I could see Holland going for Giguere because of his history with Babcock. Babs would have no problem throwing him in if (when) Jimmy takes a(nother) dump. Giggy would have to be ok with getting $2M or less to be a backup to start the season out.

Trades....hmmmm....plenty of wishes, but I agree Holland doesn't do too many in lieu of his tendencies to just sign UFA's that are nearing the end of their careers. BUT, I think if there is one trade to be made, Holland just may pull the trigger on a Ryan Kesler deal. Speaking of UFA's, I still would love to see Derek Morris here for 2 season's to take Q's spot. Trade Kindl and let Ouellet take that spot.

Kronwall - Smith

Dekeyser - Ericsson

Morris - Ouellet

Marckenko

Looks nice to me. (pairings may be different of course)

[marcaractac 3,962]

Are people not watching these playoffs? Vanek is NOT the answer.

[krsmith17 7,191]

I am watching as much of the playoffs as possible and I only missed 1 or 2 Habs games so far, and yes I am aware that he has had a few not so great games of late, and he is being demoted to the 3rd or 4th line or something ridiculous... But that's not a bad thing for the top UFA winger this offseason, I hope he doesn't score another point in the last two or three games that Montreal have left. Maybe it would lower the number of teams that are interested (although I doubt it), because GM's across the league know what this guy is capable of, despite a bit of a funk in the playoffs, and by the way he still has 8 points in 13 games which isn't terrible. But, I know what you mean, who wants a top line right handed winger that is capable of coming in and scoring 30+ goals and 70+ points.....

[DickieDunn 2,571]

Vanek is going to get a ridiculous contract despite the fact that he has 2 seasons of 70+ points in his career and hasn't scored 30 goals since 10-11. He's on the back half of his career and his numbers won't get better. Someone (Philly? Minny?) Will still give him $50 mil over 7 years. I hope Holland laughs at him when he hears that number.

[krsmith17 7,191]

Yes, technically "he is on the back half of his career", but come on, the guy is 30 years old, and I am trying to put him in replace of a 41 year old. I think everyone would agree that Vanek is an upgrade to Alfredsson, no? And I did say, "if we cannot sign Vanek, we sign Alfredsson", meaning if the price tag is too high or he simply doesn't want to come here. And I agree that if he was looking for a 7 year, 50 mil contract, I wouldn't want Holland to go near it, however, I would offer him 3-4 years at a similar cap hit.

Also, you do realize that he racked up 68 points this past season, split between three different teams, three completely different systems... if that doesn't impress, I don't know what kind of player you're looking for. He was also "on pace" for well over 80 points in the shortened season the season before last. He could easily put up 70-80 points on Pavs wing, providing they BOTH stay healthy all year. He's a big body, that isn't afraid to go to the net, can tip pucks, make plays and isn't afraid to shoot the puck, and he's a right handed shot in his prime... What isn't there to like? Unless of course there is a massive bidding war, in which case, we resign Alfie...

[Dabura 12,207]

Vanek is going to get a ridiculous contract despite the fact that he has 2 seasons of 70+ points in his career and hasn't scored 30 goals since 10-11. He's on the back half of his career and his numbers won't get better.

This.

Vanek's a very good top-six forward, but, truth be told, he's basically Franzen. Would you want Franzen with a $7.5M cap hit for seven years? (And don't forget the NTC/NMC.)

Edited May 22, 2014 by Dabura

[DickieDunn 2,571]

Yes, technically "he is on the back half of his career", but come on, the guy is 30 years old, and I am trying to put him in replace of a 41 year old. I think everyone would agree that Vanek is an upgrade to Alfredsson, no? And I did say, "if we cannot sign Vanek, we sign Alfredsson", meaning if the price tag is too high or he simply doesn't want to come here. And I agree that if he was looking for a 7 year, 50 mil contract, I wouldn't want Holland to go near it, however, I would offer him 3-4 years at a similar cap hit.

Also, you do realize that he racked up 68 points this past season, split between three different teams, three completely different systems... if that doesn't impress, I don't know what kind of player you're looking for. He was also "on pace" for well over 80 points in the shortened season the season before last. He could easily put up 70-80 points on Pavs wing, providing they BOTH stay healthy all year. He's a big body, that isn't afraid to go to the net, can tip pucks, make plays and isn't afraid to shoot the puck, and he's a right handed shot in his prime... What isn't there to like? Unless of course there is a massive bidding war, in which case, we resign Alfie...

Do you want 34 year old Vanek playing less defense than he does now with a $7 mil cap hit for 45 or 50 points in a few years? People complain about Franzen at $4 mil.

[Guest DeGraa55]

This.

Vanek's a very good top-six forward, but, truth be told, he's basically Franzen. Would you want Franzen with a $7.5M cap hit for seven years? (And don't forget the NTC/NMC.)

What an insult to vanek. He will NEVER be as bad as Franzen.

I like vanek as many do but I'm pretty sure no one wants him at 7.5m. Now 5m? yes! 6m with a shorter deal maybe 4 years? Yes. But not 7.5m and long term like he will probably get. I fully expect him to get 6-8m range for 7 years. I like vanek and want him on this team but not for that price. And I HATE long term deals in older guys. Idc who it is any deal thats long term and for guys older than 34 or 35+ is bad. It can't bring anything good. And I have yet to see one case where it has.