Next Seasons Needs/Team Future

[Bring Back The Bruise Bros 1,029]

Joe Thornton is an insanely good hockey player. For the record.

Also for the record: Steve Yzerman was a playoff choker who would obviously never lead his team to ultimate glory. Until he did. And then he did it again the very next year. And then he did it again four years later. And now he's a legend.

Yzerman played the game with integrity. Thornton is a diving, embellishing scumbag.

Sather is likely to overpay for him, anyway, if the rumors are true that he is indeed interested.

[wings4thecup06 504]

Maybe, before this board blows up. Has anyone considered the possibility that whenever a rumour gets out that a high quality player wants out (ala Thornton), KH a co would make the call anyway just to enquire what it would take and what the market is?

Because then if KH finds that SJ wants X, Y and Z for Joe, then he can call back Vancouver and be like, SJ will give me Thornton for less than you're asking, bring your price down!

just a thought.

[Shaman 713]

You're my boy!!

Welcome aboard the U.S.S. Positivity. I'll be your Captain. We're currently sailing though some choppy waters over the next two weeks of our voyage. Please keep your life-preservers handy.

Ahhh... the good old strawman. He's a sight for sore eyes on these forums.

He didn't strawman your position.

He clearly broke down your position into A) You wanna win the cup every year... and he said that isn't very realistic.

He then went on to say that in his opinion, B) he disagrees that the team is not taking steps towards that goal because he thinks the team is trending upwards not downwards. ...and then went on to give his opinion.

He's also gone on to state your overall position very plainly.

You're not as they say, "A glass half-full type of guy" ...and that's okay. Own it, FFS.

It's not as if you're not making salient points, Shamen.

You just have to understand that while everyone wants to win or contend for the Cup every year.

Not everyone is going to be as down or as pessimistic about the future as you seem to be.

...and that's okay too. ...just stop pretending that you're not Debbie Downer.

There might be a plan. Hell, maybe Holland finally has a plan A, B, and C. As for us, all of us here. Yeah. We're all grasping at straws. Desperately.

Finally, and this goes for ALL OF YOU!

Yes, we say we should wait for FA and the draft and etc. because well, YOU KIND OF HAVE TO!

THAT'S THE WAY THE LEAGUE WORKS!!!

...or would you rather us throw fifth rounders at Dan Boyle for no good reason.

Well my position isn't to win a cup every year, had you read my position you would have seen it was to either be a contender or be making tangible steps towards becoming a contender again,

[e_prime 1,936]

Yzerman played the game with integrity. Thornton is a diving, embellishing scumbag.

Sather is likely to overpay for him, anyway, if the rumors are true that he is indeed interested.

So not only will they take on Thornton's cap-hit after dumping Richards' through a buy-out. They'll probably have to send Brassard (maybe not the caliber player of Big Joe, but he's, as they say, "on the right side of thirty.") plus other pieces...because you know it's not going to be Brassard for Thornton straight up.

...and ultimately they'll be right back in the position they are right now... almost $54 up against the cap with 7 forwards, 4 d-men, and 2 d-men signed. If they keep themselves in that position they will not be able to re-sign Stralman, Boyle, or Pouliot. Certainly not all three.

Sather is an idiot. I swear to gawd! He needs to realize that they New Yawk Rangers made it to the Finals on the good fortunes of seeding, a Montreal team determined to beat Boston, just enough talent to beat a couple of dysfunctional teams from Pennsylvania team, and a player's personal loss turned into team motivation.

Thornton passing to Nash sounds great. Doesn't it. Until you realize there's no more depth after that.

Sather needs to maybe take a breath and realize that he needs talent around Henrik if he's going to get the Rags back to the Cup Final. Not just a star center in Joe Thornton.

I would be very surprised to see the New York Ranger back in the Cup Final next year.

On topic: Marleau would look pretty good in a Wings jersey. Would take him over Thornton.

A big bodied winger that's still pretty fast, a two-way player, and that can score... bringing him East might give him a boost.

Well my position isn't to win a cup every year, had you read my position you would have seen it was to either be a contender or be making tangible steps towards becoming a contender again,

I'm pretty sure I pointed that out. Hence points my points A) and B) to mirror yours.

...but you read it the way you want to, bro.

Edited June 20, 2014 by e_prime

[Dabura 12,207]

Yzerman played the game with integrity. Thornton is a diving, embellishing scumbag.

Case in point.

[Richdg 267]

So we have a whole lot of nothing going on publicly atm. Everyone seems to be waiting for the first move to happen, which makes sense. That creates a baseline of value for other moves. I expect Spezza to move first and it will be to a WC team. Once that happens then you will see Kesler move to a EC team and maybe Thornton move. The only one of those 3 that we could realisticly be in on is Kesler.

After that who knows who will move and that is where things get real interesting to me. Now to this point we have all put out many thoughts and opinions on what we think will happen. Most of which mean nothing. But I will go back a few weeks to 3 peoples opinions that were voiced publicly: Babcock, Datsyuk, and Zetterberg. All 3 were/are unhappy with this team right now. All talked about adding talent that can help then win now. Holland has also said he wants to add a top 4 RHed Dman and a big top 6 F that can score. Now I don't think there is any reasonable RW fan that disagrees with those 2 needs. I think most of us also understand that getting those type of players are very expensive. But, and these are big questions: Will Holland act? Can he afford to not act?

The second question kinda answers the first. Can Holland as GM afford to sit and do nothing (its not a matter of making phone calls, its results) when his HOF coach and 2 HOF stars want him to act?

As has been stated many times the past month or so, we have plenty of cap room and plenty of prospects. We have the pieces to make deals. Now it all comes down to will. Does Holland have the will to make moves? Stay tuned.......

[Echolalia 2,961]

Maybe, before this board blows up. Has anyone considered the possibility that whenever a rumour gets out that a high quality player wants out (ala Thornton), KH a co would make the call anyway just to enquire what it would take and what the market is?

Because then if KH finds that SJ wants X, Y and Z for Joe, then he can call back Vancouver and be like, SJ will give me Thornton for less than you're asking, bring your price down!

just a thought.

Good post. Holland isn't doing his job if he isn't making calls.

[rick zombo 3,739]

FWIW, I'd take Marleau over J(D)umbo .

Late last night I was struck with the notion that Holland's is definitely going to make a big trade, and it might be borderline Crazy Cat Lady crazy. Like Mantha + Smith + 1st for someone like Marleau.

Just this vibe that I can't shake.

[DatsyukianDekes 2,428]

FWIW, I'd take Marleau over J(D)umbo .

Late last night I was struck with the notion that Holland's is definitely going to make a big trade, and it might be borderline Crazy Cat Lady crazy. Like Mantha + Smith + 1st for someone like Marleau.

Just this vibe that I can't shake.

Uhh... no. That is a huge overpayment.

[rick zombo 3,739]

Uhh... no. That is a huge overpayment.

Uhh....that's why I said "crazy".

[Jesusberg 1,256]

If it took Jarnkrok + a 2nd to land Legwand... sigh. I'll admit Joe has skill, but I'm sure most of us would be uncomfortable with the asking price/actual payment. Good to see Kenny kicking tires, though.

[kipwinger 8,518]

If it took Jarnkrok + a 2nd to land Legwand... sigh. I'll admit Joe has skill, but I'm sure most of us would be uncomfortable with the asking price/actual payment. Good to see Kenny kicking tires, though.

Jesus what a nightmare. I really hate dwelling on that trade because I realize we were over a barrel (sort of). But every time I see it written down on this site I want to puke. That package would go a long way toward landing Ryan Kesler right now, AND he'd be under contract.

Kudos to Poile on the MASSIVE trade rape.

[amato 3,210]

has iginla been discussed yet? I just read an article about how despite his desire to stay in boston, the B's may not be able to keep him again because of cap problems partially due to penalties thanks to iginla's bonus from last season (ironic ha)

anyway, what do you guys think of potentially adding him (assuming alfie retires and the B's can't sign him)? he'd give us a top 6 forward/right handed PP shot capable of scoring for a year, maybe more.

scored 30 goals last season. I imagine he'd probably get at least that, if not more, on pav's wing.

I'd be all for it, he'd be a nice bridge over to the younger guys we have projected to be top 6 forwards and we have a little cap space/wouldn't have to give up any assets

[wings4thecup06 504]

FWIW, I'd take Marleau over J(D)umbo .

Late last night I was struck with the notion that Holland's is definitely going to make a big trade, and it might be borderline Crazy Cat Lady crazy. Like Mantha + Smith + 1st for someone like Marleau.

Just this vibe that I can't shake.

I just don't see them trading Mantha anywhere for absolutely anything, outside of maybe Crosby. It'd be nuts. They've been talking all year long about how high they are on him especially after his performance this season.

Just go on youtube and watch the draft video where the Wings pick him and Mantha walks up to the stage, towers over Babs and shakes his hand. The smile and awe on Babs face is priceless. Its like he's thinking inside his own head 'now this is the kind of size we could use'. 6'4 dynamic snipers don't come along everyday.

has iginla been discussed yet? I just read an article about how despite his desire to stay in boston, the B's may not be able to keep him again because of cap problems partially due to penalties thanks to iginla's bonus from last season (ironic ha)

anyway, what do you guys think of potentially adding him (assuming alfie retires and the B's can't sign him)? he'd give us a top 6 forward/right handed PP shot capable of scoring for a year, maybe more.

scored 30 goals last season. I imagine he'd probably get at least that, if not more, on pav's wing.

I'd be all for it, he'd be a nice bridge over to the younger guys we have projected to be top 6 forwards and we have a little cap space/wouldn't have to give up any assets

I wanted Iginla in a Wings jersey for a long time, although it means I'll have to forgive him for all the s*** he gave several Wings in the playoffs while with Calgary a few years back. Would be a great add though, that's for sure. MIght make Alfie expendable though

[Guest DeGraa55]

Iginla wants to win...so why would he have interest in us?

[Shaman 713]

So not only will they take on Thornton's cap-hit after dumping Richards' through a buy-out. They'll probably have to send Brassard (maybe not the caliber player of Big Joe, but he's, as they say, "on the right side of thirty.") plus other pieces...because you know it's not going to be Brassard for Thornton straight up.

...and ultimately they'll be right back in the position they are right now... almost $54 up against the cap with 7 forwards, 4 d-men, and 2 d-men signed. If they keep themselves in that position they will not be able to re-sign Stralman, Boyle, or Pouliot. Certainly not all three.

Sather is an idiot. I swear to gawd! He needs to realize that they New Yawk Rangers made it to the Finals on the good fortunes of seeding, a Montreal team determined to beat Boston, just enough talent to beat a couple of dysfunctional teams from Pennsylvania team, and a player's personal loss turned into team motivation.

Thornton passing to Nash sounds great. Doesn't it. Until you realize there's no more depth after that.

Sather needs to maybe take a breath and realize that he needs talent around Henrik if he's going to get the Rags back to the Cup Final. Not just a star center in Joe Thornton.

I would be very surprised to see the New York Ranger back in the Cup Final next year.

On topic: Marleau would look pretty good in a Wings jersey. Would take him over Thornton.

A big bodied winger that's still pretty fast, a two-way player, and that can score... bringing him East might give him a boost.

I'm pretty sure I pointed that out. Hence points my points A) and B) to mirror yours.

...but you read it the way you want to, bro.

He strawmanned my position saying this:

If you're expecting the Wings to win the cup every year then you are setting yourself up for failure because it'll never happen.

When I actually said

I am a realist, and I am also a person who wants Detroit to win a Cup every season, and as such any season where I don't feel they are either A) Contenders for the cup or B) Taking actual steps to become contenders, I will not be happy.

Now it's pretty clear that wanting the Wings to win a cup isn't the same as expecting them to. Also that expecting them to either contend or to be building in a tangible way to becoming a contender isn't the same as expecting them to win a cup every year. As such it's a strawman.

Edited June 20, 2014 by Shaman

[kipwinger 8,518]

Also that expecting them to either contend or to be building in a tangible to becoming a contender isn't the same as expecting them to win a cup every year.

I don't think this is unreasonable. If you're not competing and you're not trying to become competitive I'm not sure exactly what you ARE doing. Waiting around?

If life has taught me anything it's this...A) Sun-dried tomatoes are better than regular tomatoes, and B) fate is not kind to those who wait around for things to happen to them.

You make your own breaks.

[wings4thecup06 504]

I don't think this is unreasonable. If you're not competing and you're not trying to become competitive I'm not sure exactly what you ARE doing. Waiting around?

If life has taught me anything it's this...A) Sun-dried tomatoes are better than regular tomatoes, and B) fate is not kind to those who wait around for things to happen to them.

You make your own breaks.

Tell that to Guinness, who've marketed their beer for years over here with the slogan 'good things come to those who wait'

[kipwinger 8,518]

Tell that to Guinness, who've marketed their beer for years over here with the slogan 'good things come to those who wait'

Haha what do they know? They just sell beer. Did Michael Jackson make "Thriller" by waiting around? Did Steve overtake Johannes as the greatest Gutenberg while taking it easy? Did Hulk Hogan pick up and slam a GIANT by resting on his laurels?

Didn't think so.

[wings4thecup06 504]

Haha what do they know? They just sell beer. Did Michael Jackson make "Thriller" by waiting around? Did Steve overtake Johannes as the greatest Gutenberg while taking it easy? Did Hulk Hogan pick up and slam a GIANT by resting on his laurels?

Didn't think so.

Yup. I know. They do amazing adverts though

[T.Low 1,011]

A pass first player who is on the wrong side of 30? That's Ken Holland music!

He's an assist first machine. Dats 1C, Jumbo 2C, omg.

[T.Low 1,011]

So, if we trade for Thornton does that mean Weiss goes to the wing? And if so, does that mean one of Franzen or Nyquist becomes the top line winger? And how does re-signing Alfie influence this?

Is there actually a plan or are we just grasping at straws here?

No, because, as I posted earlier, Weiss and Andy in package for Kesler to play on Datsyuks wing.

Tatar in a package for Dumbo Jumbo.

Kesler Datsyuk Franzen

Zetterberg Thorny Nyquist

Jurco Sheahan Pulkinen

Miller Glendening Abdelskater

It can happen, and it will.

[kipwinger 8,518]

No, because, as I posted earlier, Weiss and Andy in package for Kesler to play on Datsyuks wing.

Tatar in a package for Dumbo Jumbo.

Kesler Datsyuk Franzen

Zetterberg Thorny Nyquist

Jurco Sheahan Pulkinen

Miller Glendening Abdelskater

It can happen, and it will.

I appreciate your certainty lol.

[T.Low 1,011]

It did, however, bring up a nagging question in my wee little mind:

Do we prefer to keep Franzen or Tatar?

Franzen and Andy for Kesler? Weiss centered package for Thornton?

Kesler Datsyuk Nyquist

Zetterberg Thornton Tatar

I'm certain this is an option. :-)

[Guest DeGraa55]

It did, however, bring up a nagging question in my wee little mind:

Do we prefer to keep Franzen or Tatar?

Franzen and Andy for Kesler? Weiss centered package for Thornton?

Kesler Datsyuk Nyquist

Zetterberg Thornton Tatar

I'm certain this is an option. :-)

LOL you think Franzen Weiss and Anderson have value? Lol HAGAGAHAHA post of the year right there.