Next Seasons Needs/Team Future

[kipwinger 8,518]

Just listened to the entire interview with Ken Daniels posted in the news feed above. Sounds like they'd like a d-man, but he says nothing's likely to happen up front if Alfie comes back.

[Jesusberg 1,256]

Just listened to the entire interview with Ken Daniels posted in the news feed above. Sounds like they'd like a d-man, but he says nothing's likely to happen up front if Alfie comes back.

Listening to the same interview, he also mentioned the whole Cleary signing process (compared it to Maltby's). Essentially, they're promising Dan a chance, not a spot. I'm against him getting any kind of contract, but I prefer this over him being given a spot for certain because of some verbal agreement.

[T.Low 1,011]

LOL you think Franzen Weiss and Anderson have value? Lol HAGAGAHAHA post of the year right there.

:-) believing is the key to sales ( and in this case, negotiation) I'm such a good salesman, every four years my boss sends me down to pick out whatever new truck I want.

You got to believe. :-)

Edited June 20, 2014 by T.Low

[joesuffP 1,746]

Thornton setting up Nyquist and Jurco? Young guys could benefit greatly from playing with Thronton. More so than a guy trying to prove he can still play in the NHL in Weiss

[joesuffP 1,746]

We need some guys with high hockey IQ. Young guys can learn so much from playing with a smart, effective veteran player. Add jumbo joe and get Jurco in the top six and we actually have a top 6 with a mix of speed, skill and size

Assuming we package Tatar and Sheahan (because nobody is taking Weiss and they'll want a centre) in a trade for Joe

Zetterberg-Datsyuk-Franzen

Nyquist-Thornton-Jurco

Alfredsson-Weiss-Helm

Abby-Glendening-Miller

Massive PP upgrade which is crucial if we plan on improving at all next season

Edited June 20, 2014 by joesuffP

[DickieDunn 2,571]

No, because, as I posted earlier, Weiss and Andy in package for Kesler to play on Datsyuks wing.

Tatar in a package for Dumbo Jumbo.

Kesler Datsyuk Franzen

Zetterberg Thorny Nyquist

Jurco Sheahan Pulkinen

Miller Glendening Abdelskater

It can happen, and it will on my PS4.

Fixed that for ya.

Forget about who you want to give up. Put yourself in the Sharks' GM chair and look at the roster. You're trading one of the better centers in the league to Detroit. You have several other teams wanting to trade with you. Who do you ask for? For me, it's Dekeyser, Nyquist/Jurco, and a first.

[T.Low 1,011]

f***ed that up for ya.

Fixed that for ya.

Of course you're going to ask for those guys, you'd be a moron not too.

But why should I give up guys I want, to get a player that you don't want?

If he's not going to work for you, why would he work for me?

I'll give you a Butterfield winner with unlimited potential, and a Florida Captain 1c to fill your center vacancy, and a future ( picks) for a guy you think cannot do it for you.

Who do you think they'll get for him? I'll bet you're surprised at what they accept.

Edited June 21, 2014 by T.Low

[DatsyukianDekes 2,428]

Are you guys assuming we are not going to re-sign alfie? Just curious if he has made a decision not to play another year?

[wings_fanatic 677]

Are you guys assuming we are not going to re-sign alfie? Just curious if he has made a decision not to play another year?

My gut tells me he is going to play again. If he was going to retire he would have known by now.

[T.Low 1,011]

Are you guys assuming we are not going to re-sign alfie? Just curious if he has made a decision not to play another year?

we've got to sign Alfie: I just traded away Franzen and Tatar in the Joe Thornton thread!

Edited June 21, 2014 by T.Low

[frankgrimes 1,836]

Are you guys assuming we are not going to re-sign alfie? Just curious if he has made a decision not to play another year?

I think he hangs them up. Take a page out of the Lidstrom book go away from the game not let the game go away from you or pull a Jagr..

[dirtydangles 1,328]

Can we just make one thing clear:

I Van or SJS are selling Kesler or Thornton they won't be going for anyone over 28. Both teams will want youth with solid potential. There is no way Weiss or Franzen go the other way considering both teams would be looking to get younger if they are giving up the best player in the trade.

[T.Low 1,011]

Can we just make one thing clear:

I Van or SJS are selling Kesler or Thornton they won't be going for anyone over 28. Both teams will want youth with solid potential. There is no way Weiss or Franzen go the other way considering both teams would be looking to get younger if they are giving up the best player in the trade.

Do you have a paypal account? :-) The Sedin's have a window just like D and Z.

[VM1138 1,921]

The more I think about Thornton the more excited I get. He could be the piece, If we improve the defense, that gets us into contention. Depending on who goes the other way.

[dirtydangles 1,328]

Realistically what is a fair trade for Thornton?

Tatar + Ouellet + 1st + Kindl (cap dump)?

Tatar + Ericsson/Smith?

[Dabura 12,207]

So, wait. Are the Oilers seriously considering trading Perron? I'd thought it was just a joke that had gathered some steam on the interwebz and the social mediaz. Maybe not?

The Case for the Edmonton Oilers trading David Perron [David Staples, Edmonton Journal]

I would love to have David Perron on our team. And Nurse or Klefbom.

We're loaded with players the Oilers would love to have. Kick these mofoing tires, Kenny.

Edited June 21, 2014 by Dabura

[kipwinger 8,518]

Another question I've been asking myself when it comes to what we need/want this offseason is this: What kind of team are we, and what kind of team do we want to be?

It's clear that there's a lot of talent available this offseason. A whole lot of teams aren't happy with the outcomes of their seasons and are looking to shake up their rosters. But just because a guy is talented, or has played the right role in the past, doesn't mean he's a fit. For a few years now I've felt we were a team without an identity. Not skilled enough to be a skill team, not gritty enough to be a gritty team, and not big enough to be a power team. Now we've got some young talent coming along which displays some skill, and was drafted as such. Do we keep going in that direction and try to overwhelm teams with pure skill? Do we augment it with power? Do we augment it with grittiness?

Personally, I think we can't expect playoff success on pure skill. Teams keep us to the outside and block shots. And we don't have the core go completely over to power like a Boston or Anahiem (whose best players are huge). I think the smartest move is to go gritty. Replace just a little bit of high end skill for fast, tough, rough guys. Be like a better version of Montreal or Columbus. Which would preclude acquiring guys like Thornton or Perron. But that's just me.

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

Another question I've been asking myself when it comes to what we need/want this offseason is this: What kind of team are we, and what kind of team do we want to be?

It's clear that there's a lot of talent available this offseason. A whole lot of teams aren't happy with the outcomes of their seasons and are looking to shake up their rosters. But just because a guy is talented, or has played the right role in the past, doesn't mean he's a fit. For a few years now I've felt we were a team without an identity. Not skilled enough to be a skill team, not gritty enough to be a gritty team, and not big enough to be a power team. Now we've got some young talent coming along which displays some skill, and was drafted as such. Do we keep going in that direction and try to overwhelm teams with pure skill? Do we augment it with power? Do we augment it with grittiness?

Personally, I think we can't expect playoff success on pure skill. Teams keep us to the outside and block shots. And we don't have the core go completely over to power like a Boston or Anahiem (whose best players are huge). I think the smartest move is to go gritty. Replace just a little bit of high end skill for fast, tough, rough guys. Be like a better version of Montreal or Columbus. Which would preclude acquiring guys like Thornton or Perron. But that's just me.

Wholeheartedly agree about the lack of identity.

The Wings have been clinging to the puck possession game but no longer had enough talent on the roster to make that work effectively, especially on the blueline. But they aren't really built for any clear alternative.

[Datsyukian-Deke 722]

I've been thinking about what has been so frustrating for me these past few off seasons and I think we have been so spoiled in the past to get that big player or big blockbuster deal that we think it's necessary to get that or the offseason is a bust. I think we all crave Holland to just have one throw of the die and take a risk on a big trade deal. Every move he makes is so calculated and cautious and although that is great most of the time, you can't always be safe if you want to win a cup. You have to shake things up every once in a while.

[kipwinger 8,518]

Wholeheartedly agree about the lack of identity.

The Wings have been clinging to the puck possession game but no longer had enough talent on the roster to make that work effectively, especially on the blueline. But they aren't really built for any clear alternative.

And the thing is, we might be moving back toward that style (high skill) but I don't know if the league is the same anymore. I mean, I don't think we're much (if any) less skilled than the 2008 team up front. We lost Sammy, Filppula, and Hudler, but have gained Tatar, Nyquist, Jurco, Sheahan. It's pretty clear that our current defense is not nearly as skilled, and I think that's the point of KH wanting to address it this offseason. But even if he does, even if you could build the 2008 Wings all over again, would that team win now? I don't know the answer to that question. But it does seem like even the skill teams (NYR and Chicago) are a more even mix of skill and grit than our last Cup team. So it makes me wonder if the making over the back end (while totally necessary) will be enough if we don't get a little harder to play against, and a little bit physically tougher up front?

What got me started thinking about this was Ryan O'Reilly. I was wondering to myself whether I'd rather have O'Reilly or Nyquist. Same ages (roughly), both defensively responsible, both offensively capable (Nyquist perhaps even more so). But I view O'Reilly as being so much more difficult to play against because he's a physically tougher guy. I'm not saying that I think we should trade Nyquist for O'Reilly. Realistically it will never happen so why bother wishing. But I am saying that I don't think we'll find success again until we gain a little bit more physical toughness (in the O'Reilly, not Shawn Thornton) sense. And that may, at some point, have to come as the expense of Nyquist-like skill.

[T.Low 1,011]

Realistically what is a fair trade for Thornton?

Tatar + Ouellet + 1st + Kindl (cap dump)?

Tatar + Ericsson/Smith?

The Kesler to Pitt was supposedly done until Aquaman stepped in a nixed it.

Granted, it was Gillis, but he was willing to accept Brandon Sutter (3C), one of either young Dman Depres or Dumoulin, and a first. So how could he not take Weiss, one of our young D, and a pick?

Thornton can't be worth much more, if any.

[Nevermind 363]

What got me started thinking about this was Ryan O'Reilly. I was wondering to myself whether I'd rather have O'Reilly or Nyquist. Same ages (roughly), both defensively responsible, both offensively capable (Nyquist perhaps even more so). But I view O'Reilly as being so much more difficult to play against because he's a physically tougher guy. I'm not saying that I think we should trade Nyquist for O'Reilly. Realistically it will never happen so why bother wishing. But I am saying that I don't think we'll find success again until we gain a little bit more physical toughness (in the O'Reilly, not Shawn Thornton) sense. And that may, at some point, have to come as the expense of Nyquist-like skill.

O'Reilly is not a physical player. He had all of two penalty minutes and 22 credited hits last season. Even Nyqyist had 18 hits in about 25 fewer games.

That said, O'Reilly does have tremendous hustle and defensive instincts. But I doubt that's what you meant by "difficult to play against".

[kipwinger 8,518]

O'Reilly is not a physical player. He had all of two penalty minutes and 22 credited hits last season. Even Nyqyist had 18 hits in about 25 fewer games.

That said, O'Reilly does have tremendous hustle and defensive instincts. But I doubt that's what you meant by "difficult to play against".

That's exactly what I meant by difficult to play against actually lol. Not penalties, or fighting, or whatever. I mean guys who are hard to play against because they go balls to the walls, aren't timid, and can't be intimidated.

An example of that I'm talking about was in this years Montreal v. Boston series. Look at a guy like Dale Weise. He skated his ass off, worked hard, finished checks, and was generally hard for Boston to deal with. All this despite his not being a fighter or penalty taker. Another example is Dubinsky for Columbus. Or Helm for us. Remember Helm against Phoenix a couple years back? Jovanovski had no way of dealing with Helm's forecheck. It completely ruined his series. O'Reilly is hard to play against like that. So is Kesler. So is Umberger. These are the types of guys I'd be targeting. Not the Thorntons (Joe or Shawn), Perrons, Vaneks, Moulsons, etc. We've got the skill already. And we don't have the makeup to switch over to full on power (e.g. Boston, Anaheim, LA, San Jose). But we could be a better Montreal or Columbus (as I've already said).

Edited June 21, 2014 by kipwinger

[Nevermind 363]

That's exactly what I meant by difficult to play against actually lol. Not penalties, or fighting, or whatever. I mean guys who are hard to play against because they go balls to the walls, aren't timid, and can't be intimidated.

An example of that I'm talking about was in this years Montreal v. Boston series. Look at a guy like Dale Weise. He skated his ass off, worked hard, finished checks, and was generally hard for Boston to deal with. All this despite his not being a fighter or penalty taker. Another example is Dubinsky for Columbus. Or Helm for us. Remember Helm against Phoenix a couple years back? Jovanovski had no way of dealing with Helm's forecheck. It completely ruined his series. O'Reilly is hard to play against like that. So is Kesler. So is Umberger. These are the types of guys I'd be targeting. Not the Thorntons (Joe or Shawn), Perrons, Vaneks, Moulsons, etc. We've got the skill already. And we don't have the makeup to switch over to full on power (e.g. Boston, Anaheim, LA, San Jose). But we could be a better Montreal or Columbus (as I've already said).

Then I agree. Even though O'Reilly doesn't finish very many checks, he's definitely difficult to play against due his speed and hustle.

I originally thought you meant someone more like Dubinsky, actually. Someone who has a pest-like mentality to go along with a great defensive conscience.

Edited June 21, 2014 by Nevermind

[kipwinger 8,518]

Then I agree. Even though O'Reilly doesn't finish very many checks, he's definitely difficult to play against due his speed and hustle.

I originally thought you meant someone more like Dubinsky, actually. Someone who has a pest-like mentality to go along with a great defensive conscience.

I guess my whole point is that I don't believe when thinking of our team we should get into a false dichotomy of skill vs. power. There are other ways to become harder to play against than to try emulating Boston and/or Chicago. We don't have the core to be either of those teams. But we can be harder to play against if we've got size, we work hard, we skate fast, and our engines never stop running. And it so happens that there are guys out there who are available and who play that type of game. To me those guys would do a lot more to give this team an identity (and get it back to contention) than all the big named stars (Thornton, Vanek, Moulson, Richards, etc.) can because they compliment what we've already got on the roster rather than being redundant or opposite of our current lineup. Plus, guys like Kesler, Umberger, O'Reilly are the exact type of guys that Babs loves. They skate hard every shift, are HIGHLY competitive, play solid two way games, and are versatile.

That's how I'd make my personnel decisions this season. 1) Can the guy skate, 2) Does he work hard, 3) Is he a pain the in ass to play against. Any two of the guys I mentioned above plus Niskanen would go a LONG way right now. Of course that's just my opinion and I doubt it ever happens, but I'd love to see it.

Z-Dats-Kesler

Franzen-Weiss-O'Reilly

Tatar-Sheahan-Jurco

Miller-Glendening-Abby

Babcock would drool over that lineup.

Edited June 21, 2014 by kipwinger