Ekmanc 586 Report post Posted June 23, 2014 I don't understand why people always bring up Goose's ppg from last season, he hardly needs to be that incredibly efficient to be a good player for us. If he can score 25-35goals a season I'll be more than happy and that is hardly unlikely either. 3 krsmith17, T.Low and frankgrimes reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wings4thecup06 504 Report post Posted June 23, 2014 I don't understand why people always bring up Goose's ppg from last season, he hardly needs to be that incredibly efficient to be a good player for us. If he can score 25-35goals a season I'll be more than happy and that is hardly unlikely either. True. And do we really need a couple of high end goalscorers? If we can get 5-6 20 goal guys then we should be fine offensively IMO. Looking at Z, Datsyuk, Franzen, Gus, Tatar and one more…. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shaman 713 Report post Posted June 23, 2014 I don't understand why people always bring up Goose's ppg from last season, he hardly needs to be that incredibly efficient to be a good player for us. If he can score 25-35goals a season I'll be more than happy and that is hardly unlikely either. If he ever breaks 30 goals I will be ecstatic. It's a lot harder than people think it is, but I see him as a 20g 40a threat every year with a peak of 65-70 points. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ekmanc 586 Report post Posted June 23, 2014 If he ever breaks 30 goals I will be ecstatic. It's a lot harder than people think it is, but I see him as a 20g 40a threat every year with a peak of 65-70 points. Well I think he showed last year that he definitely has the potential to break 30 if he has a good season and yet weirdly enough this is something people hold against him. It's not a little pessimistic to think that a guy who just had a breakout season and who is just 24 won't ever get any better. 1 krsmith17 reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dirtydangles 1,328 Report post Posted June 23, 2014 As a good as Nyquist was last season let's put things into perspective here, O'Reilly is the more proven better player. Are people honestly expecting Goose to keep up that unreal stamkoslike PPG pace? I hope not, if so some of you will be disappointed. If Goose adds 20 more pounds and still produces at such a great pace, then we can revisit this debate but so far ROR is the better player. Guy also plays an almost perfect clean game 2 penalty minutes in a whole season? _Wow This. I would trade Nyquist for O'Reilly every day of the week. O'Reilly is taller and heavier than Nyquist O'Reilly is a C and Nyquist plays wing We desperately need top 6 young C's and have surplus of young (and old) wingers O'Reilly (91) is 2 years younger than Nyquist (89) They both put up similar goal totals I love Nyquist a lot - but if it took Nyquist + 1st to get O'Reilly I'd do it all day. 1 frankgrimes reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PavelValerievichDatsyuk 1,935 Report post Posted June 23, 2014 (edited) True. And do we really need a couple of high end goalscorers? If we can get 5-6 20 goal guys then we should be fine offensively IMO. Looking at Z, Datsyuk, Franzen, Gus, Tatar and one more…. Alfie, Hopefully Weiss as well Edited June 23, 2014 by PavelValerievichDatsyuk Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Euro_Twins 4,469 Report post Posted June 23, 2014 I'Reilly is one inch taller, and had the opportunity of playing in the nhl since he was 18. Nyquist was given an opportunity and seized it, now he needs to hone in on his skills a bit. If nyquist puts on 15 pounds, they virtually become the same player. I would trade any of our young guys except for jurco and nyquist for o'Reilly 1 krsmith17 reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PavelValerievichDatsyuk 1,935 Report post Posted June 23, 2014 (edited) Alfie, Hopefully Weiss as well Hell Sheahan even scored 9 goals in 42 games this season so he could score 20 in 82 as well. Jurco had 8 goals in 36 games so he could be a 20g man as well. Edited June 23, 2014 by PavelValerievichDatsyuk Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
VM1138 1,921 Report post Posted June 23, 2014 I still think Sheahan is a third liner. He had a good year, but all the kids did. I just remember the constant dreaming about Helm becoming more than a third liner, and I'm being more cautious with him. He's got talent, but so far I'm going to assume he'll just be a talented third liner. 1 krsmith17 reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shaman 713 Report post Posted June 23, 2014 I still think Sheahan is a third liner. He had a good year, but all the kids did. I just remember the constant dreaming about Helm becoming more than a third liner, and I'm being more cautious with him. He's got talent, but so far I'm going to assume he'll just be a talented third liner. I have this feeling as well, he's going to be an above average 3rd line center, but not good enough to be a 2nd line center. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
frankgrimes 1,836 Report post Posted June 24, 2014 (edited) Save for Danny D I would trade every young player for a top 6 center yes that includes Mantha Btw. Ritchie is now a top tweak which is just great one week before the draft, he will be gone before we draft damn. Hopefully its now Parking, Tuch or Preliminary but please NO undersized guy Edited June 24, 2014 by frankgrimes Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dominator2005 558 Report post Posted June 24, 2014 If I can score Kesler with only losing Helm our 1st and a couple of prospects (Pulks, Janmark for example) I am all in. You cannot pass on a prime Kesler....you just cant. Pens offer was a nice one; Sutter/Despres or Dumoulin/1st not sure if Bennett was offered or asked for... can't remember Our equal/better could be something like: Helm/Tatar/Almquist or Jensen or Bachman and maybe a draft pick... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Son of a Wing 1,644 Report post Posted June 24, 2014 Tyler Bertuzzi and Zach Nastasiuk have been selected for Team Canada's summer development camp. Made it over some decent other prospects. LINK 1 number9 reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Richdg 267 Report post Posted June 24, 2014 2 years ago when I first joined this fine forum I talked about we need to pick up O'Reilly during his holdout. Most thought I was crazy and that he wasn't worth it. Now everyone agrees he is a great player. Just think, we could have drafted him instead of Ferrero.......LOL 1 pick later....... Those that think a bunch of our old always injured forwards are going to score a bunch of goals are smoking some good sh!t! Please pass it around! Datsyuk, Z, Weiss, Franzen, helm, now Alfie again, can't stay healthy. That is going to make it tough for them to score a bunch of goals. As of today-still June so things can still change, we are going to struggle offensively in the 14/15 season scoring. Injuries will happen. All those rookies that played so well last year are heading to the dreaded soph. season. There will be struggles. Which ones and how much? No idea. But just becasue player X score Y in half a season don't bet on it doubling by playing the whole year. If Sheahan and Jurco can both get to 75 games played and 15 G each, I will be happy. If tatar gets to 20 that is good. Same with Nyquist. The other teams have seen them and they will game plan for them now. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dirtydangles 1,328 Report post Posted June 24, 2014 2 years ago when I first joined this fine forum I talked about we need to pick up O'Reilly during his holdout. Most thought I was crazy and that he wasn't worth it. Now everyone agrees he is a great player. Just think, we could have drafted him instead of Ferrero.......LOL 1 pick later....... Those that think a bunch of our old always injured forwards are going to score a bunch of goals are smoking some good s***! Please pass it around! Datsyuk, Z, Weiss, Franzen, helm, now Alfie again, can't stay healthy. That is going to make it tough for them to score a bunch of goals. As of today-still June so things can still change, we are going to struggle offensively in the 14/15 season scoring. Injuries will happen. All those rookies that played so well last year are heading to the dreaded soph. season. There will be struggles. Which ones and how much? No idea. But just becasue player X score Y in half a season don't bet on it doubling by playing the whole year. If Sheahan and Jurco can both get to 75 games played and 15 G each, I will be happy. If tatar gets to 20 that is good. Same with Nyquist. The other teams have seen them and they will game plan for them now. I think we should be looking to acquire a young top 6 C regardless of what our needs are at D. If something becomes available I think we need to pounce. The long term survival of our success depends on getting a young top C before Z and Dats are gone - otherwise we will be looking at lottery picks. I honestly think we could wait a year or two to let our D prospects develop and be just fine for the future on D. We don't NEED more dmen for the long term future of this team (we are set there with 4+ NHL dmen in GR). I think the actual need is at top 6 C. I agree that we can't go into every year with rose coloured glasses and assume that our forward corps stays healthy for the year and that we are a lock to make the playoffs with them. If I were Holland I would be leaning towards upgrading our forwards and obtaining some more durability. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Richdg 267 Report post Posted June 24, 2014 As long as we continue to make the PO's each year Holland isn't going to make bold moves. That is my humble opinion. Being in the top 53% is fine with him, that is becoming very clear. 1 dirtydangles reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest DeGraa55 Report post Posted June 24, 2014 I think we should be looking to acquire a young top 6 C regardless of what our needs are at D. If something becomes available I think we need to pounce. The long term survival of our success depends on getting a young top C before Z and Dats are gone - otherwise we will be looking at lottery picks. I honestly think we could wait a year or two to let our D prospects develop and be just fine for the future on D. We don't NEED more dmen for the long term future of this team (we are set there with 4+ NHL dmen in GR). I think the actual need is at top 6 C. I agree that we can't go into every year with rose coloured glasses and assume that our forward corps stays healthy for the year and that we are a lock to make the playoffs with them. If I were Holland I would be leaning towards upgrading our forwards and obtaining some more durability. I agree about the defense and top center been saying that for awhile now... And this year we got Kessler and spezza available and..... No interest from us?? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DickieDunn 2,571 Report post Posted June 24, 2014 As long as we continue to make the PO's each year Holland isn't going to make bold moves. That is my humble opinion. Being in the top 53% is fine with him, that is becoming very clear. Or he realizes you can't restock your team in free agency anymore and he doesn't want to trade most of their good prospects to get 2 or 3 guys. You're not going to get a good young player for Franzen Pulkinen and Ferraro or the other proposals thrown out around here. 3 wings4thecup06, Internet.Unknown and krsmith17 reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kipwinger 8,440 Report post Posted June 24, 2014 Or he realizes you can't restock your team in free agency anymore and he doesn't want to trade most of their good prospects to get 2 or 3 guys. You're not going to get a good young player for Franzen Pulkinen and Ferraro or the other proposals thrown out around here. I don't think anyone is talking about "building from free agency". We draft and develop well and should continue to do so. But I don't think you can argue that trades and/or free agency can be a source of significant parts of championship teams. It's worth noting that Carter, Richards, Gaborik, Williams, B. Richards, Nash, St. Louis, Brassard, and Puliot all played significant parts in their respective teams' cup runs and none were drafted or developed by those teams. I agree that you can't buy success. But I think it's a false dichotomy to suggest that the only choices are A) to draft and develop your own team with minimal additions from outside, or B) buy a team through free agency and pay no attention to drafting and developing. You can do both a little of both with great success. Recently KH has only shown a willingness to make peripheral moves through trade/FA (unless you consider signing a 41 year old on the downswing of his career a significant acquisition). And by his own admission his prospect pool doesn't have the first rate players to replace the ones he's currently losing to old age. 2 F.Michael and T.Low reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
VM1138 1,921 Report post Posted June 24, 2014 2 years ago when I first joined this fine forum I talked about we need to pick up O'Reilly during his holdout. Most thought I was crazy and that he wasn't worth it. Now everyone agrees he is a great player. Just think, we could have drafted him instead of Ferrero.......LOL 1 pick later....... Those that think a bunch of our old always injured forwards are going to score a bunch of goals are smoking some good s***! Please pass it around! Datsyuk, Z, Weiss, Franzen, helm, now Alfie again, can't stay healthy. That is going to make it tough for them to score a bunch of goals. As of today-still June so things can still change, we are going to struggle offensively in the 14/15 season scoring. Injuries will happen. All those rookies that played so well last year are heading to the dreaded soph. season. There will be struggles. Which ones and how much? No idea. But just becasue player X score Y in half a season don't bet on it doubling by playing the whole year. If Sheahan and Jurco can both get to 75 games played and 15 G each, I will be happy. If tatar gets to 20 that is good. Same with Nyquist. The other teams have seen them and they will game plan for them now.I think we should be looking to acquire a young top 6 C regardless of what our needs are at D. If something becomes available I think we need to pounce. The long term survival of our success depends on getting a young top C before Z and Dats are gone - otherwise we will be looking at lottery picks. I honestly think we could wait a year or two to let our D prospects develop and be just fine for the future on D. We don't NEED more dmen for the long term future of this team (we are set there with 4+ NHL dmen in GR). I think the actual need is at top 6 C. I agree that we can't go into every year with rose coloured glasses and assume that our forward corps stays healthy for the year and that we are a lock to make the playoffs with them. If I were Holland I would be leaning towards upgrading our forwards and obtaining some more durability. I disagree. In order to stay competitive we need a defenseman. We have several quality centers right now. Yes, they are aging but they're not dead yet. We do not have a quality defense. A young center is a must for the future, but defense is a must right now.Sent from my ADR6350 using Tapatalk 2Also, didn't Holland offer Nyquist, Tatar and a 1st for Kessler this year? He's willing to make the moves but there are two sides to every deal.Sent from my ADR6350 using Tapatalk 2 1 Ekmanc reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WingedWheel91 271 Report post Posted June 24, 2014 (edited) I guess this will go in the "Teams Future" section. TO FLA - Thomas Tatar, Xavier Ouellet, 2014 1st Round Pick (#15 overall) TO DET - Aaron Ekblad. There is no reason to assume we are going to acquire any "top 4" defenseman this summer because god knows we aren't overpaying for Boyle or Niskanen (and after that who cares). We also aren't getting Shea Weber, Keith Yandle, Mike Green or PK Subban through trade because this "isn't a video game". So - if the only way to improve our team is through drafting/player development, and we have accumulated several assets by doing so... why not trade what we have a surplus of and complete the youth movement. Tatar is a small, left handed shooting offensive minded winger. He can be replaced by Pulkinnen. Our Defense would look like this for the next few years: Kronwall - Ekblad Dekeyser - Sproul Ericsson - Marchenko How bright is that future? Edited June 24, 2014 by WingedWheel91 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
robb himself 143 Report post Posted June 24, 2014 (edited) I guess this will go in the "Teams Future" section. TO FLA - Thomas Tatar, Xavier Ouellet, 2014 1st Round Pick (#15 overall) TO DET - Aaron Ekblad. There is no reason to assume we are going to acquire any "top 4" defenseman this summer because god knows we aren't overpaying for Boyle or Niskanen (and after that who cares). We also aren't getting Shea Weber, Keith Yandle, Mike Green or PK Subban through trade because this "isn't a video game". So - if the only way to improve our team is through drafting/player development, and we have accumulated several assets by doing so... why not trade what we have a surplus of and complete the youth movement. Tatar is a small, left handed shooting offensive minded winger. He can be replaced by Pulkinnen. Our Defense would look like this for the next few years: Kronwall - Ekblad Dekeyser - Sproul Ericsson - Marchenko How bright is that future? Switch Tatar with Franzen and I am sold. Edited June 24, 2014 by robb himself Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DannyD 79 Report post Posted June 24, 2014 I guess this will go in the "Teams Future" section. TO FLA - Thomas Tatar, Xavier Ouellet, 2014 1st Round Pick (#15 overall) TO DET - Aaron Ekblad. There is no reason to assume we are going to acquire any "top 4" defenseman this summer because god knows we aren't overpaying for Boyle or Niskanen (and after that who cares). We also aren't getting Shea Weber, Keith Yandle, Mike Green or PK Subban through trade because this "isn't a video game". So - if the only way to improve our team is through drafting/player development, and we have accumulated several assets by doing so... why not trade what we have a surplus of and complete the youth movement. Tatar is a small, left handed shooting offensive minded winger. He can be replaced by Pulkinnen. Our Defense would look like this for the next few years: Kronwall - Ekblad Dekeyser - Sproul Ericsson - Marchenko How bright is that future? I have a feeling it would take more than that. Probably Tats + Jurco +1st and one D prospect or Tats + Ouellet + Bäckman +1st. If not more. If we could do the 2nd option though... I'd do it in a heartbeat. Florida gets a potential top 6 winger and two potential top 4 Dmen + a pick. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
number9 3,297 Report post Posted June 24, 2014 2 years ago when I first joined this fine forum I talked about we need to pick up O'Reilly during his holdout. Most thought I was crazy and that he wasn't worth it. Now everyone agrees he is a great player. Just think, we could have drafted him instead of Ferrero.......LOL 1 pick later....... Those that think a bunch of our old always injured forwards are going to score a bunch of goals are smoking some good s***! Please pass it around! Datsyuk, Z, Weiss, Franzen, helm, now Alfie again, can't stay healthy. That is going to make it tough for them to score a bunch of goals. As of today-still June so things can still change, we are going to struggle offensively in the 14/15 season scoring. Injuries will happen. All those rookies that played so well last year are heading to the dreaded soph. season. There will be struggles. Which ones and how much? No idea. But just becasue player X score Y in half a season don't bet on it doubling by playing the whole year. If Sheahan and Jurco can both get to 75 games played and 15 G each, I will be happy. If tatar gets to 20 that is good. Same with Nyquist. The other teams have seen them and they will game plan for them now. Why oh why did we not realize your infinite wisdom 2 years ago? Why? 5 Son of a Wing, wings4thecup06, kipwinger and 2 others reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dirtydangles 1,328 Report post Posted June 24, 2014 I guess this will go in the "Teams Future" section. TO FLA - Thomas Tatar, Xavier Ouellet, 2014 1st Round Pick (#15 overall) TO DET - Aaron Ekblad. There is no reason to assume we are going to acquire any "top 4" defenseman this summer because god knows we aren't overpaying for Boyle or Niskanen (and after that who cares). We also aren't getting Shea Weber, Keith Yandle, Mike Green or PK Subban through trade because this "isn't a video game". So - if the only way to improve our team is through drafting/player development, and we have accumulated several assets by doing so... why not trade what we have a surplus of and complete the youth movement. Tatar is a small, left handed shooting offensive minded winger. He can be replaced by Pulkinnen. Our Defense would look like this for the next few years: Kronwall - Ekblad Dekeyser - Sproul Ericsson - Marchenko How bright is that future? Problem is - FLA has said they are only willing to drop to #8 or something. We won't be able to move up it seems. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites