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Next Seasons Needs/Team Future


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#2081 Shaman

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Posted 19 June 2014 - 04:31 PM

 

This really, isn't what I'd called being 'realistic' though. It's being negative and bringing a defeatist attitude when the draft, free agency and our roster for next season hasn't even formulated yet. 

 

If you're expecting the Wings to win the cup every year then you are setting yourself up for failure because it'll never happen. Yes all of us here want the Wings to do well, but surely being a realist would mean realising that the Wings won't win the cup every year?? I mean, winning one is hard to do, let alone two. 

 

You obviously disagree, but IMO this team is trending up. They're getting rid of excess baggage (aside from Clearly but that remains to be seen), are healthy, will most likely have their two best players back and ready to go (Z looked great in the two games he played against Boston, and there's no reason to suggest why a summer of rehab and conditioning shouldn't have him even better), we've got young guys coming up who are largely responsible for getting us in last season and have bright futures ahead, and we've got arguably our most exciting prospect for as long as I can remember (Mantha) turning pro and possibly challenging for a spot. So what's not to like? Rebuilding on the fly isn't exactly a painless process and we've seen that the last two years. But with the pieces we have, it definitely doesn't suggest we're going to suck. Too many people here I think are getting down on the Wings already even though the offseason really hasn't even started to get going yet. Am I the only one who's excited about the future of this team? 

Well first you strawmanned my position, I didn't say they had to be contenders every year, I said they had to be or they had to be making progress to that point. They have objectively regressed every year since 2008. Zetterberg and Datsyuk are both past their prime, the defense has been in steep decline, and Howard is Osgood 2.0, meaning he's as good as the team in front of him. You say we should wait for FA and the draft and etc. Look at the last 4 years as a guide, they do nothing in FA worth noting, nothing at the deadline, they retain older plugs and roleplayers while starting players like Nyquist and Jurco in the AHL. 


Feuer und Wasser kommt nicht zusammen
Kann man nicht binden sind nicht verwandt
In Funken versunken steh ich in Flammen
und bin im Wasser verbrannt
Im Wasser verbrannt

#2082 wings4thecup06

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Posted 19 June 2014 - 04:55 PM

Well first you strawmanned my position, I didn't say they had to be contenders every year, I said they had to be or they had to be making progress to that point. They have objectively regressed every year since 2008. Zetterberg and Datsyuk are both past their prime, the defense has been in steep decline, and Howard is Osgood 2.0, meaning he's as good as the team in front of him. You say we should wait for FA and the draft and etc. Look at the last 4 years as a guide, they do nothing in FA worth noting, nothing at the deadline, they retain older plugs and roleplayers while starting players like Nyquist and Jurco in the AHL. 

 

While some of that may be true, there's a couple things right now that I think work to change that. 

 

1. The emergence of several kids who carried us has (hopefully) shown KH that some of these guys can be slotted in and it's not all about veterans anymore

 

2. We've got a good amount of cap space for the first time in I can't remember

 

3. We've also got a gluttony of good, mid level prospects who we could potentially package to get something decent in return. 

 

While the recent history might suggest otherwise, I think KH will do something decent this offseason. 


temp 1

 


#2083 T.Low

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Posted 19 June 2014 - 07:04 PM

Ok...I'm officially ready for July 1, and beyond.

#2084 Detroit # 1 Fan

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Posted 19 June 2014 - 09:26 PM

Was just watching Insider Trading on TSN. According to Pierre Lebrun, Joe Thornton has given no indications of what he wants to do, but confirms that Holland has called San Jose to see what it would take. I know for one, I've hated dumbo Joe in the past, but that'd all be in the past if we could land him (depending on price of course.)
 
link to the story: http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=455266


Edited by Detroit # 1 Fan, 19 June 2014 - 10:07 PM.

#NOMOREKINDL


#2085 Shaman

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Posted 19 June 2014 - 09:30 PM

A pass first player who is on the wrong side of 30? That's Ken Holland music!


Feuer und Wasser kommt nicht zusammen
Kann man nicht binden sind nicht verwandt
In Funken versunken steh ich in Flammen
und bin im Wasser verbrannt
Im Wasser verbrannt

#2086 VM1138

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Posted 19 June 2014 - 09:32 PM

Oh come on. Jumbo Joe is still a force. He's still got game and will for a few years. He'd be great to have. We still need finishers but how could you turn down Thornton?
Check out my short e-book on the Red Wings' 1937 Stanley Cup championship entitled: "Nothing Could Keep 'Em Down." Please download it from my profile at Smashwords: https://www.smashwor...ile/view/victor

New e-book: The Spanish-American War: A Brief History. Relatively short, introductory read for casual history buffs and people who want to learn more about a forgotten war that changed America. Available at BN.com, Smashwords, Kobo, and Diesel E-Books right now. Same link as above.

#2087 kipwinger

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Posted 19 June 2014 - 09:34 PM

Of course he'd be looking at centers.  Our wingers are undersized and/or terrible and he's looking at centers.  We've only got about 25 of them on the roster right now.  Jesus. 


GMRwings:  "Well, in other civilized countries, 16 years old isn't considered underage.  For instance, I believe the age of consent is 16 in Canada.  There's some US states where it's 16 as well.  

 

Get off the high horse.  Not like she was 10."

 

"Some girls are 17 even though they look 25."

 

 


#2088 VM1138

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Posted 19 June 2014 - 09:34 PM

Especially if we lost some players due to trades we might end up needing an extra playmaker.
Check out my short e-book on the Red Wings' 1937 Stanley Cup championship entitled: "Nothing Could Keep 'Em Down." Please download it from my profile at Smashwords: https://www.smashwor...ile/view/victor

New e-book: The Spanish-American War: A Brief History. Relatively short, introductory read for casual history buffs and people who want to learn more about a forgotten war that changed America. Available at BN.com, Smashwords, Kobo, and Diesel E-Books right now. Same link as above.

#2089 DeGraa55

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Posted 19 June 2014 - 09:36 PM

Ya why get spezza when we can get Thornton LOL!!!

I like joe but we need help now and the future not just now.

#2090 LeftWinger

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Posted 19 June 2014 - 09:36 PM

diving Joe? I am not sure how I'd feel...just for laughs someone put up that .gif with the light sabres...


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#2091 kipwinger

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Posted 19 June 2014 - 09:38 PM

So, if we trade for Thornton does that mean Weiss goes to the wing?  And if so, does that mean one of Franzen or Nyquist becomes the top line winger?  And how does re-signing Alfie influence this?

 

Is there actually a plan or are we just grasping at straws here?


GMRwings:  "Well, in other civilized countries, 16 years old isn't considered underage.  For instance, I believe the age of consent is 16 in Canada.  There's some US states where it's 16 as well.  

 

Get off the high horse.  Not like she was 10."

 

"Some girls are 17 even though they look 25."

 

 


#2092 LeftWinger

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Posted 19 June 2014 - 09:39 PM

call it....Helm, Smith, 1st for Joe. Holland then signs Boyle and Seto July 1st.


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Nestrasil, yes...Cleary....No!

Dump Q and K Now!


#2093 VM1138

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Posted 19 June 2014 - 09:39 PM

Of course he'd be looking at centers.  Our wingers are undersized and/or terrible and he's looking at centers.  We've only got about 25 of them on the roster right now.  Jesus. 


We may not have so many after trading starts. Realistically we have Datsyuk, Weiss, Helm, Sheahan. Weiss can play wing and Helm may end up traded. Andersson just isn't good and can also be traded.

A middle of Datsyuk, Thornton, Weiss/Helm and Sheahan doesn't make anyone else excited? That's powerful and Cup worthy. We could still use a new winger but if we upgrade the defense we may not need one.
Check out my short e-book on the Red Wings' 1937 Stanley Cup championship entitled: "Nothing Could Keep 'Em Down." Please download it from my profile at Smashwords: https://www.smashwor...ile/view/victor

New e-book: The Spanish-American War: A Brief History. Relatively short, introductory read for casual history buffs and people who want to learn more about a forgotten war that changed America. Available at BN.com, Smashwords, Kobo, and Diesel E-Books right now. Same link as above.

#2094 Detroit # 1 Fan

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Posted 19 June 2014 - 09:41 PM

Certainly gives us something to talk about haha. I think a 2nd line of Nyquist-Thornton-Franzen would be great in theory, he's from St. Thomas so he'd essentially be coming home without having to go to Toronto and deal with that pressure cooker. By no means a done deal, but I'm intrigued.


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#2095 kipwinger

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Posted 19 June 2014 - 09:46 PM

We may not have so many after trading starts. Realistically we have Datsyuk, Weiss, Helm, Sheahan. Weiss can play wing and Helm may end up traded. Andersson just isn't good and can also be traded.

A middle of Datsyuk, Thornton, Weiss/Helm and Sheahan doesn't make anyone else excited? That's powerful and Cup worthy. We could still use a new winger but if we upgrade the defense we may not need one.

 

I mean, I don't want to sound overly pessimistic because those are all good centers.  But I was already excited at the thought of Dats, Weiss, Sheahan, Helm. 

 

But it doesn't make a bit of difference if their wingers have hammer hands (Abby) or weight 175 lbs. (Tatar, Nyquist) or are Franzen.  We've already got good centers.  I want wingers with size.

 

I will admit that Joe would probably make Franzen a superstar overnight.  And he'd be good for Mantha's development too.  Really good.  Mantha would score a zillion goals with Joe passing to him. 


GMRwings:  "Well, in other civilized countries, 16 years old isn't considered underage.  For instance, I believe the age of consent is 16 in Canada.  There's some US states where it's 16 as well.  

 

Get off the high horse.  Not like she was 10."

 

"Some girls are 17 even though they look 25."

 

 


#2096 VM1138

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Posted 19 June 2014 - 09:57 PM

Exactly. Holland may be thinking down the road a bit with this idea. Nyquist and Tatar are small, but Jurco isn't. He was the rawest talent last season, and I expect he will be much better this season.
And keep in mind our passing in the playoffs sucked. Maybe Tatar and Nyquist would have scored had they not had to carry the puck in from their own blue line all the time alone.
Check out my short e-book on the Red Wings' 1937 Stanley Cup championship entitled: "Nothing Could Keep 'Em Down." Please download it from my profile at Smashwords: https://www.smashwor...ile/view/victor

New e-book: The Spanish-American War: A Brief History. Relatively short, introductory read for casual history buffs and people who want to learn more about a forgotten war that changed America. Available at BN.com, Smashwords, Kobo, and Diesel E-Books right now. Same link as above.

#2097 Bring Back The Bruise Bros

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Posted 19 June 2014 - 09:57 PM

I'll never like Thornton. Don't want his diving ass here. Go choke somewhere else.
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RIP Bob Probert
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#2098 e_prime

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Posted 19 June 2014 - 10:04 PM

 

While some of that may be true, there's a couple things right now that I think work to change that. 

 

1. The emergence of several kids who carried us has (hopefully) shown KH that some of these guys can be slotted in and it's not all about veterans anymore

 

2. We've got a good amount of cap space for the first time in I can't remember

 

3. We've also got a gluttony of good, mid level prospects who we could potentially package to get something decent in return. 

 

While the recent history might suggest otherwise, I think KH will do something decent this offseason. 

:yahoo: You're my boy!!

Welcome aboard the U.S.S. Positivity.  I'll be your Captain.  We're currently sailing though some choppy waters over the next two weeks of our voyage.  Please keep your life-preservers handy.

 

Well first you strawmanned my position, I didn't say they had to be contenders every year, I said they had to be or they had to be making progress to that point. They have objectively regressed every year since 2008. Zetterberg and Datsyuk are both past their prime, the defense has been in steep decline, and Howard is Osgood 2.0, meaning he's as good as the team in front of him. You say we should wait for FA and the draft and etc. Look at the last 4 years as a guide, they do nothing in FA worth noting, nothing at the deadline, they retain older plugs and roleplayers while starting players like Nyquist and Jurco in the AHL. 

Ahhh... the good old strawman. He's a sight for sore eyes on these forums.  

He didn't strawman your position. 

He clearly broke down your position into A) You wanna win the cup every year... and he said that isn't very realistic. 

He then went on to say that in his opinion, B) he disagrees that the team is not taking steps towards that goal because he thinks the team is trending upwards not downwards.  ...and then went on to give his opinion.

 

He's also gone on to state your overall position very plainly. 

You're not as they say, "A glass half-full type of guy"   ...and that's okay. Own it, FFS.

  It's not as if you're not making salient points, ShamAn*

You just have to understand that while everyone wants to win or contend for the Cup every year. 

Not everyone is going to be as down or as pessimistic about the future as you seem to be.

...and that's okay too.  ...just stop pretending that you're not Debbie Downer.

 

So, if we trade for Thornton does that mean Weiss goes to the wing?  And if so, does that mean one of Franzen or Nyquist becomes the top line winger?  And how does re-signing Alfie influence this?

 

Is there actually a plan or are we just grasping at straws here?

There might be a plan.  Hell, maybe Holland finally has a plan A, B, and C.  As for us, all of us here.  Yeah. We're all grasping at straws. Desperately.  :lol:

 

 

Finally, and this goes for ALL OF YOU!

Yes, we say we should wait for FA and the draft and etc. because well, YOU KIND OF HAVE TO! 

THAT'S THE WAY THE LEAGUE WORKS!!! 

 

...or would you rather us throw fifth rounders at Dan Boyle for no good reason.

 

 

 

EDIT:  Sorry, Shaman.  For a second I spelled your handle like you're a Scottish dance band from the nineties.


Edited by e_prime, 20 June 2014 - 07:45 AM.

QUOTE
(AtomicPunk @ February 4, 2010 - 12:16AM)

Imma let you finish, and your cap numbers are all good and all that, but imma let Kenny figure it out. Kenny's cap numbers were the best cap numbers this year.

#2099 BottleOfSmoke

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Posted 19 June 2014 - 10:58 PM

BOS you must be as drunk as i am right now, god i wish hockey would start again


In all honesty, I didn't remember making that post until I checked my notifications. :lol:

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#2100 kipwinger

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Posted 19 June 2014 - 11:00 PM

:yahoo: You're my boy!!

Welcome aboard the U.S.S. Positivity.  I'll be your Captain.  We're currently sailing though some choppy waters over the next two weeks of our voyage.  Please keep your life-preservers handy.

 

Ahhh... the good old strawman. He's a sight for sore eyes on these forums.  

He didn't strawman your position. 

He clearly broke down your position into A) You wanna win the cup every year... and he said that isn't very realistic. 

He then went on to say that in his opinion, B) he disagrees that the team is not taking steps towards that goal because he thinks the team is trending upwards not downwards.  ...and then went on to give his opinion.

 

He's also gone on to state your overall position very plainly. 

You're not as they say, "A glass half-full type of guy"   ...and that's okay. Own it, FFS.

  It's not as if you're not making salient points, Shamen. 

You just have to understand that while everyone wants to win or contend for the Cup every year. 

Not everyone is going to be as down or as pessimistic about the future as you seem to be.

...and that's okay too.  ...just stop pretending that you're not Debbie Downer.

 

There might be a plan.  Hell, maybe Holland finally has a plan A, B, and C.  As for us, all of us here.  Yeah. We're all grasping at straws. Desperately.  :lol:

 

 

Finally, and this goes for ALL OF YOU!

Yes, we say we should wait for FA and the draft and etc. because well, YOU KIND OF HAVE TO! 

THAT'S THE WAY THE LEAGUE WORKS!!! 

 

...or would you rather us throw fifth rounders at Dan Boyle for no good reason.

 

You're on a roll tonight buddy! 

Keep everyone on an even keel. Lord knows we need it.  And here's hoping you're rewarded for your faith. 


GMRwings:  "Well, in other civilized countries, 16 years old isn't considered underage.  For instance, I believe the age of consent is 16 in Canada.  There's some US states where it's 16 as well.  

 

Get off the high horse.  Not like she was 10."

 

"Some girls are 17 even though they look 25."

 

 






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