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Next Seasons Needs/Team Future


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#301 dirtydangles

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Posted 12 February 2014 - 12:16 AM

 

If you can produce even one article I'll concede.  As for the opinions of fans, being a member of LGW has taught me nothing if it hasn't taught me that most "fans" are irrationally gossipy and prone to serious lapses in judgement and analytical reasoning.  Hell, there are currently a bunch of "fans" in another forum pontificating (poorly) on the principles of democracy, constitutionality, and representative governance.  Nothing about "the fans say so" is convincing to me.

http://hfboards.hock...d.php?t=1589003


Is there a kickstarter campaign for Jakub Kindl to never play another NHL game?


#302 VM1138

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Posted 12 February 2014 - 09:13 AM

Not to sound like a broken record, but our offensive corps is shaping up nicely. Sure, you can always use more firepower but barring a power forward acquisition, we should be okay for this year.

I would argue that we actually need TWO defenseman to win a Cup.

Kronwall is our only offensive defenseman. I know Kindl and Smith and Quincey are considered as such but in performance they aren't. So let's break our corps in half.

At the top, we have Kronwall, Ericsson and DeKeyser. One offensive talent, two defensive-minded players. Good enough to play defense but not really help the offense. Here is where an offensive D-man can help. Someone with a good stretch pass and who loves shooting. The mythical right handed point man for the powerplay. It's okay if he is a bit of a defensive liability because he would be paired with Ericsson or DeKeyser.

In the bottom half we have Smith, Quincey, Lashoff, Kindl. Lashed is a reliable defensive guy, but nothing more than a #7. Six if we need him. The rest aren't particularly good at anything, and make particularly bad decisions with the puck. Also, their passing is bad, which stems from boneheaded decision making. So our second acquisition needs to be a solid, smart stay at home guy. A #5 or #6. I bet this would be just as valuable an acquisition as a star defender, even if he only had 10 points a year.

Find those two guys, don't be shy about using our first or second picks in a weak draft, and this team suddenly operates very differently.
Check out my short e-book on the Red Wings' 1937 Stanley Cup championship entitled: "Nothing Could Keep 'Em Down." Please download it from my profile at Smashwords: https://www.smashwor...ile/view/victor

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#303 DickieDunn

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Posted 12 February 2014 - 09:26 AM

Swap Kindl and a pick or prospect for a top 4 guy and let Marchenko take Quincey's spot and I'll be happy. Ericsson and Dekeyser both do OK offensively for guys who don't get PP time. Last year Ericsson had as many or more points at even strength than guys who are considered offensive d men.

Edited by DickieDunn, 12 February 2014 - 09:28 AM.

Oh this young man has had a very trying rookie season, with the litigation, the notoriety, his subsequent deportation to Canada and that country's refusal to accept him, well, I guess that's more than most 21-year-olds can handle... Ogie Ogilthorpe!


#304 Richdg

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Posted 12 February 2014 - 03:45 PM

Bumpy, if you go back a few pages I did propose improving the D. I propsed: signing vanek, trading for hanzel or some other big C, signing Matt Greene for the 3rd pair, and trading for Petry to be the RHed pair for dekeyser. By doing that we improve our F corp and our D in the same off season. 2 UFA's and 2 trades, and a much much better team overall.



#305 Dabura

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Posted 12 February 2014 - 05:04 PM

Not to sound like a broken record, but our offensive corps is shaping up nicely. Sure, you can always use more firepower but barring a power forward acquisition, we should be okay for this year.

I would argue that we actually need TWO defenseman to win a Cup.

Kronwall is our only offensive defenseman. I know Kindl and Smith and Quincey are considered as such but in performance they aren't. So let's break our corps in half.

At the top, we have Kronwall, Ericsson and DeKeyser. One offensive talent, two defensive-minded players. Good enough to play defense but not really help the offense. Here is where an offensive D-man can help. Someone with a good stretch pass and who loves shooting. The mythical right handed point man for the powerplay. It's okay if he is a bit of a defensive liability because he would be paired with Ericsson or DeKeyser.

In the bottom half we have Smith, Quincey, Lashoff, Kindl. Lashed is a reliable defensive guy, but nothing more than a #7. Six if we need him. The rest aren't particularly good at anything, and make particularly bad decisions with the puck. Also, their passing is bad, which stems from boneheaded decision making. So our second acquisition needs to be a solid, smart stay at home guy. A #5 or #6. I bet this would be just as valuable an acquisition as a star defender, even if he only had 10 points a year.

Find those two guys, don't be shy about using our first or second picks in a weak draft, and this team suddenly operates very differently.

 

This.

 

Swap Kindl and a pick or prospect for a top 4 guy and let Marchenko take Quincey's spot and I'll be happy. Ericsson and Dekeyser both do OK offensively for guys who don't get PP time. Last year Ericsson had as many or more points at even strength than guys who are considered offensive d men.

 

Nothing against Marchenko, but I feel like if we're gonna Go For It, we should Go For It. (And isn't DeKeyser getting PP time this season?)

 

If we play our cards a certain way, we could potentially be looking at $12-14M in cap space this summer. (And that's with Alfie returning.) That could, in theory, get us two top UFA defensemen. Like I've said, some of the better defensemen in this summer's class (assuming they all test the waters, which is, of course, most definitely not a given) are older guys at or nearing the end of their careers, so they'd probably be looking for relatively short deals, if not one-offs. Which would be good for us, because of the young talent we have in the pipeline.

 

In an awesome world, we get Boyle on a two-year deal at around $6.5M and Girardi on a four-year deal @ around $5M. It's almost certain that at least one of them won't even make it to free agency, but the point is that there's the possibility of significant improvement in our D corps between now and October, without even considering trade options.


Don't Toews me, bro!


#306 darkmanx

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Posted 12 February 2014 - 06:28 PM

Swap Kindl and a pick or prospect for a top 4 guy and let Marchenko take Quincey's spot and I'll be happy. Ericsson and Dekeyser both do OK offensively for guys who don't get PP time. Last year Ericsson had as many or more points at even strength than guys who are considered offensive d men.

100% agree. Give the kid more then 1 game to prove himself. I highly doubt he's worse then Quincey.



#307 frankgrimes

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Posted 12 February 2014 - 09:22 PM

I don't think any GM in his right mind would give up a top 4 guy for Kindl + a prospect (unless it's one we don't want to give up!) or a very good first round pick.

 

I'm honestly warming up to the idea of overpaying for Girardi if he hits UFA, the benefit is it would cost nothing only a bit of an overpayment but capspace is useless if you don't use it so.


Edited by frankgrimes, 12 February 2014 - 09:23 PM.

kftx.jpg

 

The Offseason of truth ...

Welcome to hockeytown Jonas aka Lundquist 2 Gustavsson!

blank cheque for The Captain or Jim Star Nil please..


#308 DickieDunn

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Posted 13 February 2014 - 08:24 AM

I don't think any GM in his right mind would give up a top 4 guy for Kindl + a prospect (unless it's one we don't want to give up!) or a very good first round pick.

 

I'm honestly warming up to the idea of overpaying for Girardi if he hits UFA, the benefit is it would cost nothing only a bit of an overpayment but capspace is useless if you don't use it so.

 

Any trade that brings back a good player is going to cost.  The Wings have more defense prospects than they have roster spots available.  Kronwall, Ericsson, and Dekeyers for sure are going to be around long term.  Smith might still get it and turn into a decent defenseman.  Kindl is probably gone, either in trade or as a free agent when his contract is up.  Lashoff is a decent 6/7 guy.  That only leaves 2 or 3 open spots for Sproul, Ouellet, Marchenko, Backman, and Jensen, all of whom look like legit prospects, any of the other guys who are farther out from the NHL.  If they can swap Sproul, who I think has the highest top end potential but also the highest chances of not coming close to that potential, and Kindl, or Kindl, Marchenko, and a 2nd for a defenseman to give the Wings two balanced pairs for the top 4, that's a good deal.  If Edler isn't traded at the deadline, they might be able to get him for Kindl and a pick.  I think he'd be a lot better here away for Tortorella.


Oh this young man has had a very trying rookie season, with the litigation, the notoriety, his subsequent deportation to Canada and that country's refusal to accept him, well, I guess that's more than most 21-year-olds can handle... Ogie Ogilthorpe!


#309 VM1138

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Posted 13 February 2014 - 08:31 AM

That's exactly why we should trade some prospects. It's up to Kenny to decide who but we have more than will ever see the ice. It sucks but we might as well get something for them.
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#310 DickieDunn

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Posted 13 February 2014 - 08:36 AM

That's also why I want Marchenko up next year.  He's big, can skate, and plays a defensively responsible game.  Get the kids up when they're ready so they're not trying to break in 3 rookies at once.


Oh this young man has had a very trying rookie season, with the litigation, the notoriety, his subsequent deportation to Canada and that country's refusal to accept him, well, I guess that's more than most 21-year-olds can handle... Ogie Ogilthorpe!


#311 number9

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Posted 13 February 2014 - 11:22 AM

That's exactly why we should trade some prospects. It's up to Kenny to decide who but we have more than will ever see the ice. It sucks but we might as well get something for them.


And with what cap space will we fit that player in? Trading involves us losing salary. The only way that happens is we trade Sammy and a pick for a bucket of pucks... That's not a trade Kenny's going to make

#312 DickieDunn

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Posted 13 February 2014 - 11:31 AM

And with what cap space will we fit that player in? Trading involves us losing salary. The only way that happens is we trade Sammy and a pick for a bucket of pucks... That's not a trade Kenny's going to make

Any big trade would probably need to be an offseason move, but it's certainly possible.


Oh this young man has had a very trying rookie season, with the litigation, the notoriety, his subsequent deportation to Canada and that country's refusal to accept him, well, I guess that's more than most 21-year-olds can handle... Ogie Ogilthorpe!


#313 Buppy

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Posted 13 February 2014 - 04:07 PM

No reason to trade anyone now (not counting Almquist), all our D have two more years of waiver exemption. The longer we wait, the better idea we'll have of what they'll be. Most likely they'll all go up in value too. After next season, or the 2016 trade deadline, is the time to start shopping. Max their value, but before the immediate pressure to move them.



#314 Dabura

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Posted 13 February 2014 - 04:09 PM

Also, teams can eat salary. Not that I think we should count on that happening.


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#315 Dabura

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Posted 13 February 2014 - 04:19 PM

That's also why I want Marchenko up next year.  He's big, can skate, and plays a defensively responsible game.  Get the kids up when they're ready so they're not trying to break in 3 rookies at once.

 

I wouldn't necessarily be opposed to Marchenko being a regular next season, but I wouldn't want him to be the only new face on the blue line. I really do think we need a top-four guy from outside the system, be it Girardi or Edler or whatever. This whole counting-on-rookies-to-be-the-difference thing isn't working so well for us this season.

 

Kronwall  Ericsson

DeKeyser  Girardi

Smith  Marchenko

Lashoff

 

Maybe something like that.


Don't Toews me, bro!


#316 Dabura

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Posted 13 February 2014 - 04:26 PM

This whole counting-on-rookies-to-be-the-difference thing isn't working so well for us this season.

 

I mean on the blue line.


Don't Toews me, bro!


#317 VM1138

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Posted 13 February 2014 - 04:30 PM

And with what cap space will we fit that player in? Trading involves us losing salary. The only way that happens is we trade Sammy and a pick for a bucket of pucks... That's not a trade Kenny's going to make


You'd have to package them with a roster player if it's a trade this season, but this summer cap space won't be an issue.
Check out my short e-book on the Red Wings' 1937 Stanley Cup championship entitled: "Nothing Could Keep 'Em Down." Please download it from my profile at Smashwords: https://www.smashwor...ile/view/victor

New e-book: The Spanish-American War: A Brief History. Relatively short, introductory read for casual history buffs and people who want to learn more about a forgotten war that changed America. Available at BN.com, Smashwords, Kobo, and Diesel E-Books right now. Same link as above.

#318 Dabura

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Posted 13 February 2014 - 04:44 PM

Sobering stuff:
 

Veterans bolstered by youngsters is a similar story along the Detroit blue line, but it's not working that well. Points-wise, Niklas Kronwall is having a good year, with 36 points in 56 games played. After that, the drop is severe; Brendan Smith sits in 2nd for scoring with just 13. Overall, the 17 goals for Detroit defensemen places the Wings' in 29th place for the category, ahead of only Montreal.

 

[Winging It In Motown]

 

So...*stands above dead horse, baseball bat in hand*...we need an offensive defenseman like whoa. So much so that I'm actually questioning how much I'd really want to add Girardi, given that he's primarily a shutdown type. He moves the puck, and that's what it really comes down to, puck movement. But, dayum, we could really use another point producer.


Don't Toews me, bro!


#319 dirtydangles

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Posted 13 February 2014 - 05:53 PM

Putting this out there. I've read that WPG is loaded on RD (Trouba, Bogosian, Buff) and lacking in top 4 LD with only Enstrom really. We are overloaded with LD and could maybe make something happen. If we target a guy like Bogosian without wanting to give up our valued forward prospects what do you guys think of swapping Smith+ or Dekeyser+ or Ericsson+ to WPG for Bogosian (give or take) to even out our D and their D? I know how much people love Smith and DD but Bogo is 23 and a stud. Would there be a deal around these players in any way? No way we are getting a top caliber dman for Kindl + 1st + spare parts but I'd throw Kindl into the above deal as a +.

 

Kronwall - Bogosian

Smith/Dekeyser/Ericsson

Lashoff - Marchenko

Almquist

 

That leaves the bottom pairing open in the future for Sproul, Ouellet, Backman to earn a spot (Lashoff and Almquist aren't a long term solutions). 

 

WPG solidifies top 4:

 

Enstrom - Buff

Ericsson/Dekeyser/Smith - Trouba

etc. 


Is there a kickstarter campaign for Jakub Kindl to never play another NHL game?


#320 Son of a Wing

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Posted 13 February 2014 - 06:05 PM

Putting this out there. I've read that WPG is loaded on RD (Trouba, Bogosian, Buff) and lacking in top 4 LD with only Enstrom really. We are overloaded with LD and could maybe make something happen. If we target a guy like Bogosian without wanting to give up our valued forward prospects what do you guys think of swapping Smith+ or Dekeyser+ or Ericsson+ to WPG for Bogosian (give or take) to even out our D and their D? I know how much people love Smith and DD but Bogo is 23 and a stud. Would there be a deal around these players in any way? No way we are getting a top caliber dman for Kindl + 1st + spare parts but I'd throw Kindl into the above deal as a +.

 

Kronwall - Bogosian

Smith/Dekeyser/Ericsson

Lashoff - Marchenko

Almquist

 

That leaves the bottom pairing open in the future for Sproul, Ouellet, Backman to earn a spot (Lashoff and Almquist aren't a long term solutions). 

 

WPG solidifies top 4:

 

Enstrom - Buff

Ericsson/Dekeyser/Smith - Trouba

etc. 

 

I think there's a deal that could be done here but it would never involve Dekeyser or Bogosian.

 

Dekeyser because he CHOSE to play here as a highly coveted FA. 0% chance we trade him just for that reason, let alone others.

 

Bogosian just signed a huge 7 year contract with a full NMC.  If they're trading anyone of value off the back-end it's Byfuglien or Stuart.  They've publicly stated Bogosian is a core/building block for them.

 

I would have interest in Byfuglien and/or Stuart for the right price.


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