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Next Seasons Needs/Team Future


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#21 frankgrimes

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Posted 28 January 2014 - 01:04 PM

High end talent, nothing more, nothing less.

 

We don't need depth or role players, we've got plenty of talented kids to give us depth.

 

We need another high quality top-6 forward and a high quality top-4 dman.  Neither is likely to be available in FA, but like last summer there may be someone available via trade.  Kenny missed out on Ryan, Seguin, Ericsson and Edler last summer.  If anyone of that level of quality is available again he needs to be prepared to let some of our assets go in order to get them.

 

Nill just robbed Chiarelli plain and simple I doubt the Wings could have offered would Dallas did.


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#22 jimmyemeryhunter

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Posted 28 January 2014 - 01:45 PM

High end talent, nothing more, nothing less.
 
We don't need depth or role players, we've got plenty of talented kids to give us depth.
 
We need another high quality top-6 forward and a high quality top-4 dman.  Neither is likely to be available in FA, but like last summer there may be someone available via trade.  Kenny missed out on Ryan, Seguin, Ericsson and Edler last summer.  If anyone of that level of quality is available again he needs to be prepared to let some of our assets go in order to get them.

I'm not saying we couldn't have packaged half the farm up to get one of those, but we don't have anyone comparable to Seguin in that age, Ericsson and Franzen are comparable this season in that neither have been healthy, but we couldn't have swapped given Louis age.
Had the kids we have up now been put on display last year, we could've put our hat on the edge of the ring, not entirely in it.

And once again.
Im slightly convinced that teams don't want to trade with us, because they wanna see if well fail.
Call it luck, but the teams we've built, they way we've drafted, and the amount of succes we've sustained over he last 2 decades honestly makes the rest of the league, (for the most part)look like they're amateurs.

#23 LeftWinger

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Posted 28 January 2014 - 02:16 PM

There is NO doubt Holland could have matched what Ottawa gave up for Ryan.

 

Nyquist is just as good as Silfverberg

 

Noesen hasn't stepped foot in the NHL for Anaheim thus far and could be compared to Ferraro.

 

Our 1st round pick will be very similar to Ottawa's in 2014.

 

Nyquist, Ferraro, 2014 1st for Bobby Ryan...

 

Holland needs to grow his balls soon or this team in going to be out for a bit...


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#24 kipwinger

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Posted 28 January 2014 - 02:17 PM

There is NO doubt Holland could have matched what Ottawa gave up for Ryan.

 

Nyquist is just as good as Silfverberg

 

Noesen hasn't stepped foot in the NHL for Anaheim thus far and could be compared to Ferraro.

 

Our 1st round pick will be very similar to Ottawa's in 2014.

 

Nyquist, Ferraro, 2014 1st for Bobby Ryan...

 

Holland needs to grow his balls soon or this team in going to be out for a bit...

 

Noesen hasn't stepped foot in the AHL as of yet, because of injury.  He's a Canadian junior stud who hasn't made waves in the AHL, like Frk in a way.

 

So yeah, I agree with you.  We could have matched that.


Edited by kipwinger, 28 January 2014 - 02:19 PM.

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Get off the high horse.  Not like she was 10."

 

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#25 LeftWinger

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Posted 28 January 2014 - 02:25 PM

I agree Jimmy, teams (other GM's) are notorious for asking way too much from Holland, then accepting very little in comparison from other GM's...

 

PERECT example...2008, Columbus wanted Val Filppula for Sergei Fedorov...accepted Theo "Ted" Ruth from Washington...who?  has yet to even attempt an appearance in the NHL...


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#26 LeftWinger

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Posted 28 January 2014 - 02:30 PM

Stefan Noesen is from Plano, Texas...

 

he has played only 2 games for the Norfolk Admirals in the AHL, after a very good career at Plymouth where his best season was 82 points in 63 games. Nyquist had just as impressive numbers at the U of Maine...

 

I just don't understand Holland sometimes, but then again, wonder what Anaheim wanted from Detroit, IF Holland even showed interest.  I can imagine it was far greater than what was accepted from Ottawa...this is why the NHL needs an arbitrator again, so teams cannot rape other teams.  All trades and proposals need to be fair.


Edited by LeftWinger, 28 January 2014 - 02:31 PM.

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#27 jimmyemeryhunter

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Posted 28 January 2014 - 02:34 PM

I agree Jimmy, teams (other GM's) are notorious for asking way too much from Holland, then accepting very little in comparison from other GM's...
 
PERECT example...2008, Columbus wanted Val Filppula for Sergei Fedorov...accepted Theo "Ted" Ruth from Washington...who?  has yet to even attempt an appearance in the NHL...


Beautiful example man.
And I'm not entirely sure that silf is equal to Nyquist, but i guess agree to (maybe?) disagree.
Ha.
Another blue jackets example.
But supposedly our package we offered for Nash was insane, and included flip, Franzen And a first or second round pick, yet they sent him to ny for much less.
I do really like Artem Anisimov though, he reminds me of king from the kings, big fast, and pretty skilled. Both used on the 3rd line, but artem on dats wing would be pretty damn cool.

#28 LeftWinger

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Posted 28 January 2014 - 02:47 PM

I am not so sure about the Nash trade....

 

If we offered Flip, Franzen and a 1st (which we used to select Mantha) I think NYR paid much more in that Columbus got in return the aforementioned Anisimov, they also got Dubinsky, Erixon and the Rags 1st in which they chose Kerby Rychel.  I would take Anisimov, Dubinsky and Erixon over Flip and Franzen...

 

But I guess at the time, Flip and Franzen were probably considered better than the others...ironic is that usually a team asks for more from an inner-divisional team that others, now Columbus is in NYR division! :lol:

 

Also, Nash is being outscored by Dubinskyand nearly by Anisimov.  Delisle and Buchnevich are still nowhere around.  So Columbus really took NYR on that one! Grant it I think Nash was injured a bit this season...


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#29 jimmyemeryhunter

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Posted 28 January 2014 - 02:51 PM

I am not so sure about the Nash trade....
 
If we offered Flip, Franzen and a 1st (which we used to select Mantha) I think NYR paid much more in that Columbus got in return the aforementioned Anisimov, they also got Dubinsky, Erixon and the Rags 1st in which they chose Kerby Rychel.  I would take Anisimov, Dubinsky and Erixon over Flip and Franzen...
 
But I guess at the time, Flip and Franzen were probably considered better than the others...ironic is that usually a team asks for more from an inner-divisional team that others, now Columbus is in NYR division! :lol:
 
Also, Nash is being outscored by Dubinskyand nearly by Anisimov.  Delisle and Buchnevich are still nowhere around.  So Columbus really took NYR on that one! Grant it I think Nash was injured a bit this season...

The thing is that wasnt all we were offering, noone really knew what all else was involved in the deal, just that those three things were the base of it.

But it is funny, their excuse was to get him out of their division, yet ended up trading him into it after the realignment.

#30 LeftWinger

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Posted 28 January 2014 - 03:02 PM

speaking of Mantha, he has currently leap-frogged in to the #1 spot on the Wings prospects list, knocking Jarnkrok down to #4.  Jurco and Mrazek maintain the #2 and #3 spots. Riley Sheahan rounds out the top 5.

 

I think in the long run, we will all be happy that Holland did not trade that 2013 1st for Nash...

 

for those interested here is the top 20 wings prospects:

 

1.  Mantha

2.  Mrazek

3.  Jurco

4.  Jarnkrok

5.  Sheahan

6.  Ouellet

7.  Sproul

8.  Backman

9.  Marchenko

10. Athanasiou

11. Glendening

12. Ferraro

13. Pulkkinen

14. Almqvist

15. Janmark

16. Callahan

17. Nastasiuk

18. Paterson

19. Frk

T-20. Jensen

T-20. Bertuzzi


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#31 Dabura

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Posted 28 January 2014 - 03:26 PM

If we can't bring in any big pieces, I'd be ok with this:

 

Henrik Zetterberg  Pavel Datsyuk  Tomas Jurco

Johan Franzen  Stephen Weiss  Gustav Nyquist

Tomas Tatar  Darren Helm  Daniel Alfredsson

Drew Miller  Riley Sheahan  Justin Abdelkader

 

Niklas Kronwall  Danny DeKeyser

Brendan Smith  Jonathan Ericsson

Xavier Ouellet  Brian Lashoff

 

Jimmy Howard

Jonas Gustavsson

 

That's far from ideal, though.

 

My concern lies with both our core and our youth. Our core boasts two of the best players in the world in Datsyuk and Zetterberg, but, honestly, that's sort of it - and they've both been showing signs of their age this season. I mean, Kronwall's great for us, but, objectively, he's a #2 on an elite team, and even on some non-elite teams. And he's getting older as well. I guess you could count Franzen as part of our core. And I guess our homegrown starting goalie counts. So, ok, it's Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Kronwall, Franzen, Howard. But even if these guys were all in their prime and at the top of their game, we'd be facing quite an uphill battle for the Cup.

 

As for our youth, well, we have some nice pieces now and in the pipeline, but I'd be lying if I said I know without a doubt that we've got two or three future franchise players who will be more than capable of taking over for the likes of Datsyuk, Zetterberg, and The Ghost of Nicklas Lidstrom. DeKeyser's pretty good. Nyquist is pretty good. Tatar is pretty good. Jurco does have great potential, but he's only 21. Ouellet and Sproul have a long way to go before they're top-pairing talents in the NHL. Jarnkrok may bloom into a lesser Zetterberg, four years from now. Mantha may be our new Franzen, eight years from now. Pulkkinen is the only pure sniper we have in the system (I guess you could count Mantha as well), and, though I think he's better than many seem to think, he's probably not a future force-to-be-reckoned-with at the NHL level. Callahan is a fourth-line agitator.

 

True, Datsyuk and Zetterberg were unassuming prospects once. But, let's be honest: we got incredibly lucky with them. And not just because of the potential they had, but because they were able to ease into the NHL on stacked Wings teams, learn from future Hall of Famers, and not have to carry the weight of the organization on their shoulders until they were more than ready (and even then, we still had Lidstrom).

 

We're the Detroit Red Wings. We do field deep teams, but, in all honesty, our "modern dynasty" teams ran on overwhelming star power. Of our last four Cup-winning teams, the '08 team had probably the weakest core. That core was Datsyuk in his prime, Zetterberg in his prime, Franzen in his prime, Lidstrom (always in his prime), Rafalski, Kronwall in his prime, Hasek-Osgood, and The Grind Line guys. God Almighty.

 

This idea that any team that makes the playoffs can win the Cup is pretty much a crock. Yeah, the Kings were an eighth seed, but the dirty truth is that they were a damn good team all along that just struggled to score in the regular season. I mean, they steamrolled the Canucks and Blues and won the SCF in six. That's not the work of your typical eighth seed.

 

But I digress.

 

I mostly agree with what you guys are saying. I think, above all, we need a top-pairing defenseman. Again: last time we won the Cup, we had Lidstrom, Rafalski, and Kronwall (in his prime) as our top three. Currently? Older Kronwall, Ericsson, and DeKeyser. Ouch.

 

I think a top-six scoring winger is less important, but still necessary, if only because our main guys haven't been able to stay healthy, pointing to age and fragility. Hell, we're in a death race with the Flyers for points and a wild card spot, we're facing them tonight, and Datsyuk, Zetterberg, and Franzen will all be out of the lineup. Further, we're not sure if our new second-line center will really pan out, which is a very serious issue because, beyond him, we don't have any other legitimate options for the role (not counting Zetterberg).

 

What do I suggest? I dunno. I think anyone who counts on free agency isn't with the times. The best UFAs re-sign, and the ones who don't are trouble and/or want much more than they're worth. Or they're like Suter and Parise and Clarkson and maybe Vanek: they know exactly where they want to go before they even hit the market. I mean, sure, maybe there's a guy who doesn't fall into any of those categories. But we can't count on That Guy existing and becoming a Red Wing.

 

As for big trades...it's an interesting situation. We have exceedingly few roster players who are both high-end and possibly tradable. Like, any team would probably love to have an Ericsson or DeKeyser, but Ericsson just signed an extension because he wants to retire as a Wing, and DeKeyser - who had been courted by all 30 organizations - chose the Wings. So, it'd be a horrible mistake to trade either of them, even for an incredible return. Datsyuk and Zetterberg and Kronwall are off-limits. Howard isn't going anywhere. Even if Holland wanted to trade Franzen, the contract and concussion issues and age - I don't see it happening. Nyquist won't be traded. Tatar won't be traded. Smith won't be traded. Helm won't be traded.

 

Beyond the roster, we have all of our picks and one of the better prospect pools in the league. But Holland is very, very, very, very big on the whole This Is How You Have to Do It in the Cap Era thing. (Or, at least, he gives that impression.) So, while I can maybe see him parting with our first-round pick (weak draft class), I have a hard time seeing him parting with any of our top prospects. Which is understandable. I mean, take Jarnkrok. He's probably our most promising prospect; GMs would be very interested in him. Trouble is, beyond "Iron Hook," we don't have any high-end centermen in the system. We would have to be getting, like, a Ryan O'Reilly in return. And, even then, what if Weiss doesn't pan out? What if Helm can't stay healthy? What if Datsyuk and/or Zetterberg really start to wear down?

 

Blah. I do have some ideas, but this post is already too long. I'll save it for a follow-up post.


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#32 LeftWinger

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Posted 28 January 2014 - 03:33 PM

so we all pretty much agree, we need that top pairing defenseman...but who do you target?  There aren't that many available via UFA, so it will have to be a trade...

 

Bogosian, Yandle, Erhoff, Edler, Visnovsky, Wisniewski...etc...

 

who do you target and who do you offer in return?


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#33 Opie

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Posted 28 January 2014 - 03:46 PM

 

I'm not sure whether or not you are suggesting that Dallas' system is better than Boston's, but....

 

Boston is 2nd in the East, whereas Dallas is not even in playoff position in the West (10th - only ahead of Winnipeg, Nashville, Calgary, and Edmonton). 

 

If I had to choose, I would take the restricted sniper getting fewer points and home ice in the playoffs over awesome sniper point totals and tee times when April rolls around.

 

My point was not to assign better or worse system, but to point out the fact that in a defensively responsible system like the Wings and B's have, a guy like Sequin is not going to be the same player as he would be in Dallas.

 

The type of game the stars play allows him to be a true sniper and scorer, whereas in Det or Bos he would have to cover in his own zone, something he has proven less than proficient at!

 

So people clamoring for a true sniper are going to be disappointed.


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#34 jimmyemeryhunter

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Posted 28 January 2014 - 03:52 PM

If we can't bring in any big pieces, I'd be ok with this:
 

Henrik Zetterberg  Pavel Datsyuk  Tomas Jurco

Johan Franzen  Stephen Weiss  Gustav Nyquist

Tomas Tatar  Darren Helm  Daniel Alfredsson

Drew Miller  Riley Sheahan  Justin Abdelkader

 

Niklas Kronwall  Danny DeKeyser

Brendan Smith  Jonathan Ericsson

Xavier Ouellet  Brian Lashoff

 

Jimmy Howard

Jonas Gustavsson

 

That's far from ideal, though.
 
My concern lies with both our core and our youth. Our core boasts two of the best players in the world in Datsyuk and Zetterberg, but, honestly, that's sort of it - and they've both been showing signs of their age this season. I mean, Kronwall's great for us, but, objectively, he's a #2 on an elite team, and even on some non-elite teams. And he's getting older as well. I guess you could count Franzen as part of our core. And I guess our homegrown starting goalie counts. So, ok, it's Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Kronwall, Franzen, Howard. But even if these guys were all in their prime and at the top of their game, we'd be facing quite an uphill battle for the Cup.
 
As for our youth, well, we have some nice pieces now and in the pipeline, but I'd be lying if I said I know without a doubt that we've got two or three future franchise players who will be more than capable of taking over for the likes of Datsyuk, Zetterberg, and The Ghost of Nicklas Lidstrom. DeKeyser's pretty good. Nyquist is pretty good. Tatar is pretty good. Jurco does have great potential, but he's only 21. Ouellet and Sproul have a long way to go before they're top-pairing talents in the NHL. Jarnkrok may bloom into a lesser Zetterberg, four years from now. Mantha may be our new Franzen, eight years from now. Pulkkinen is the only pure sniper we have in the system (I guess you could count Mantha as well), and, though I think he's better than many seem to think, he's probably not a future force-to-be-reckoned-with at the NHL level. Callahan is a fourth-line agitator.
 
True, Datsyuk and Zetterberg were unassuming prospects once. But, let's be honest: we got incredibly lucky with them. And not just because of the potential they had, but because they were able to ease into the NHL on stacked Wings teams, learn from future Hall of Famers, and not have to carry the weight of the organization on their shoulders until they were more than ready (and even then, we still had Lidstrom).
 
We're the Detroit Red Wings. We do field deep teams, but, in all honesty, our "modern dynasty" teams ran on overwhelming star power. Of our last four Cup-winning teams, the '08 team had probably the weakest core. That core was Datsyuk in his prime, Zetterberg in his prime, Franzen in his prime, Lidstrom (always in his prime), Rafalski, Kronwall in his prime, Hasek-Osgood, and The Grind Line guys. God Almighty.
 
This idea that any team that makes the playoffs can win the Cup is pretty much a crock. Yeah, the Kings were an eighth seed, but the dirty truth is that they were a damn good team all along that just struggled to score in the regular season. I mean, they steamrolled the Canucks and Blues and won the SCF in six. That's not the work of your typical eighth seed.
 
But I digress.
 
I mostly agree with what you guys are saying. I think, above all, we need a top-pairing defenseman. Again: last time we won the Cup, we had Lidstrom, Rafalski, and Kronwall (in his prime) as our top three. Currently? Older Kronwall, Ericsson, and DeKeyser. Ouch.
 
I think a top-six scoring winger is less important, but still necessary, if only because our main guys haven't been able to stay healthy, pointing to age and fragility. Hell, we're in a death race with the Flyers for points and a wild card spot, we're facing them tonight, and Datsyuk, Zetterberg, and Franzen will all be out of the lineup. Further, we're not sure if our new second-line center will really pan out, which is a very serious issue because, beyond him, we don't have any other legitimate options for the role (not counting Zetterberg).
 
What do I suggest? I dunno. I think anyone who counts on free agency isn't with the times. The best UFAs re-sign, and the ones who don't are trouble and/or want much more than they're worth. Or they're like Suter and Parise and Clarkson and maybe Vanek: they know exactly where they want to go before they even hit the market. I mean, sure, maybe there's a guy who doesn't fall into any of those categories. But we can't count on That Guy existing and becoming a Red Wing.
 
As for big trades...it's an interesting situation. We have exceedingly few roster players who are both high-end and possibly tradable. Like, any team would probably love to have an Ericsson or DeKeyser, but Ericsson just signed an extension because he wants to retire as a Wing, and DeKeyser - who had been courted by all 30 organizations - chose the Wings. So, it'd be a horrible mistake to trade either of them, even for an incredible return. Datsyuk and Zetterberg and Kronwall are off-limits. Howard isn't going anywhere. Even if Holland wanted to trade Franzen, the contract and concussion issues and age - I don't see it happening. Nyquist won't be traded. Tatar won't be traded. Smith won't be traded. Helm won't be traded.
 
Beyond the roster, we have all of our picks and one of the better prospect pools in the league. But Holland is very, very, very, very big on the whole This Is How You Have to Do It in the Cap Era thing. (Or, at least, he gives that impression.) So, while I can maybe see him parting with our first-round pick (weak draft class), I have a hard time seeing him parting with any of our top prospects. Which is understandable. I mean, take Jarnkrok. He's probably our most promising prospect; GMs would be very interested in him. Trouble is, beyond "Iron Hook," we don't have any high-end centermen in the system. We would have to be getting, like, a Ryan O'Reilly in return. And, even then, what if Weiss doesn't pan out? What if Helm can't stay healthy? What if Datsyuk and/or Zetterberg really start to wear down?
 
Blah. I do have some ideas, but this post is already too long. I'll save it for a follow-up post.
Damn was that a read, ha.
I cant respond to all of it because it'd take years, seeing as I'm on my phone.
But.
We did get lucky with pav and z learning the wings way from the best, which is why I pray they keep jurco and sheahan up to learn from them, and why i hope like hell that theyll bring up mantha to let him get as much time in under pav z and kronwall as they can.

Pulk and jarnkrok are too far away from the big club to worry about, but they don't seem to be the replacements for d and z, but I think were changing philosophies.
It's like Holland gets that we need to be bigger, so instead of taking risks on the small skilled players he started taking risks on big bodies with upside.
In the nhl now, Jurco and sheahan show that.
Both big, jurco will be a dominant second line winger, possibly 1st.
And it may be jumping the gun but Sheahans ceiling looks high, I wouldn't say first line, but it doesn't look out of the question. Especially if they keep jurco sheahan and Tatar together forever, the chemistry is already there, now imagine them all in their prime after 3-4yrs playing together.

And mantha is just a freak, huge, with an amazing shot, good skill, and he can skate.

The rest of our prospects coming up aren't HUGE, but with the exception of one, maybe two, they're all 6'+ with bodies that can support 200-215 lbs and still be effective.

So we may not have any bona fide super stars coming through, so think of the team were working into as more of a St. Louis type team with more skill thrown into the top six.
Another good thing about this is we shouldn't be too dependant on a few players, wed be more balanced and deep from top to bottom.
I may be seeing more than there is in all this, but it seems to be the direction they've headed in the draft the past few years.
It makes a lot of sense if you think about it, but once again, I could have my standards set too high.

It also explains the teams lack of identity at the start of the season, they're caught in a retooling year where at the beginning of the year the team represented old principles, small skilled guys, and veteran dept.
Then when it wasnt working, and we started losing most the team to injuries they called up the plans we had in the works for the changes in the future.
Which would also explain the order of call ups.
And why other guys like callahan and ferraro haven't been brought up.
Glendenning replaced one, or both in the contingency plan for the fourth line for now.

#35 DickieDunn

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Posted 28 January 2014 - 04:36 PM

There is NO doubt Holland could have matched what Ottawa gave up for Ryan.
 
Nyquist is just as good as Silfverberg
 
Noesen hasn't stepped foot in the NHL for Anaheim thus far and could be compared to Ferraro.
 
Our 1st round pick will be very similar to Ottawa's in 2014.
 
Nyquist, Ferraro, 2014 1st for Bobby Ryan...
 
Holland needs to grow his balls soon or this team in going to be out for a bit...


Some Wings fans think Nyquist is as good as Silvferberg and Ferraro is as good as Noesen. That doesn't mean anyone else agrees. The fact is the kids that the Ducks got are bigger and younger with similar upside, and therefore are more attractive. The Wings would have had to add to that package to balance it out, possibly a lot more, and I'm not sure Ryan is worth much more.

Oh this young man has had a very trying rookie season, with the litigation, the notoriety, his subsequent deportation to Canada and that country's refusal to accept him, well, I guess that's more than most 21-year-olds can handle... Ogie Ogilthorpe!


#36 Opie

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Posted 28 January 2014 - 05:08 PM

I like Nyquist hope he stays a wing, but to say he is just as good as Silvferberg is a reach, and Noesen is looking to be potentially a very good NHLer, I am not so sure Ferraro is.

 

Red Wings glasses get in the way sometimes of how we view our prospects, and then to say that Holland has no balls because you think Nyquist, Ferraro and a pick get you Bobby Ryan is a stretch.


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#37 DickieDunn

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Posted 28 January 2014 - 06:09 PM

Beautiful example man.
And I'm not entirely sure that silf is equal to Nyquist, but i guess agree to (maybe?) disagree.
Ha.
Another blue jackets example.
But supposedly our package we offered for Nash was insane, and included flip, Franzen And a first or second round pick, yet they sent him to ny for much less.
I do really like Artem Anisimov though, he reminds me of king from the kings, big fast, and pretty skilled. Both used on the 3rd line, but artem on dats wing would be pretty damn cool.

 

 

The BJ's GM is on record as saying he'll never make a trade with Detroit.


Oh this young man has had a very trying rookie season, with the litigation, the notoriety, his subsequent deportation to Canada and that country's refusal to accept him, well, I guess that's more than most 21-year-olds can handle... Ogie Ogilthorpe!


#38 matt198913

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Posted 28 January 2014 - 06:36 PM

If I have to hear one more time that we need Westgarth or another goon with similar skill set I'm going to puke. If you want a guy who fights they will need to be able to provide some offense too, or at the very least not be a liability in the defensive zone. Lucic, Backes, Colborne, Callahan are top guys. Maybe a Dubinsky Andrew Shaw, Winik, Jordan Nolan, Trevor Lewis, Kasian, heck even Matt Hendricks would be acceptable fourth liners. Guys like Haley, Westgarth, Gillies, John Scott, should never see an NHL rink.
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#39 frankgrimes

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Posted 28 January 2014 - 06:59 PM

If I have to hear one more time that we need Westgarth or another goon with similar skill set I'm going to puke. If you want a guy who fights they will need to be able to provide some offense too, or at the very least not be a liability in the defensive zone. Lucic, Backes, Colborne, Callahan are top guys. Maybe a Dubinsky Andrew Shaw, Winik, Jordan Nolan, Trevor Lewis, Kasian, heck even Matt Hendricks would be acceptable fourth liners. Guys like Haley, Westgarth, Gillies, John Scott, should never see an NHL rink.


The job of forth liners is to

Shut down other players
Be physical
Hard on the for check
fight

If they can chip in a goal here and there fine, but that's not required from such a line. We are talking about guys with limited icetime and payroll here. Westgarth fits that bill sorry

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#40 DickieDunn

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Posted 28 January 2014 - 07:16 PM

The job of forth liners is to Shut down other players Be physical Hard on the for check fight If they can chip in a goal here and there fine, but that's not required from such a line. We are talking about guys with limited icetime and payroll here. Westgarth fits that bill sorry

 I don't care how good he is at fighting, if he can only be on the ice 5 minutes a game, he's worthless.  The days of every team carrying 2 or 3 cement handed goons are gone, and that type of player is being taken out of the league entirely.


Oh this young man has had a very trying rookie season, with the litigation, the notoriety, his subsequent deportation to Canada and that country's refusal to accept him, well, I guess that's more than most 21-year-olds can handle... Ogie Ogilthorpe!






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