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Next Seasons Needs/Team Future


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#921 greenrebellion

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Posted 28 April 2014 - 06:37 PM

The playoff streak is incredible and I, for one am glad they traded for Legrand to keep it alive.

I know everyone here wants to compete for the cup every year but with 29 other teams vying for the same thing it just is not realistic. The Wings need to go through their down years just like everyone else.

If they can "rebuild" on the fly and continue to make the playoffs throughout, all the better.

Edited by greenrebellion, 28 April 2014 - 06:38 PM.


#922 Shaman

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Posted 28 April 2014 - 07:01 PM

 

THE WINGS OWNERSHIP AND MANAGEMENT THINK THE STREAK SPECIAL.

 

Repeat that 3 times and I'll bang my head on the desk for luck.

And people who make mudpies thing they have value. It doesn't matter what they think, they are selling a product.

 

I go to multiple games a year, buy their merchandise, watch their broadcasts. I am their customer and their product is fast becoming s***.


Edited by Shaman, 28 April 2014 - 07:01 PM.

Feuer und Wasser kommt nicht zusammen
Kann man nicht binden sind nicht verwandt
In Funken versunken steh ich in Flammen
und bin im Wasser verbrannt
Im Wasser verbrannt

#923 Dabura

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Posted 28 April 2014 - 08:00 PM

(Spoiler alert:  I'm going to talk about James Wisniewski a lot in this post.  I'm not pining for him, or lamenting any past decisions.  I'm just using him as an example to explain why we should pursue Niskanen.  If your response to the post is, "Wisniewski suckz!" you missed the point).

 

I don't want to get into the weeds too much on this issue (that's what this summer is for), but I do think we should sign Matt Niskanen. Sure you'd have to overpay (a little) for him, but we've got the money and he fills a TON  of needs.  He's an up an coming young, right handed, top four, puck mover, who's very good on the pp.  He's also coming into the age were d-men finally hit their stride.  

 

All summer everyone will nitpick and find reasons to not like this move, just like they did back when we were all debating about whether to acquire Wisniewski a couple years ago.  They'll say the contract is bad, they'll say it's an overpayment, they'll put a microscope on each and every one of his shortcomings.  But at the end of the day, the amount you'll overpay will less than what you'll pay all the scrubs you'll bring in trying to find a cheap alternative. 

 

Think about it this way, using Wisniewski as an example.  Let's say he's getting paid a million more than he's worth (he'd be worth every penny of 4.5 million for his pts., aggressiveness, and pp shot alone).  Over the life of his contract you overpaid him by six million dollars.  How much did we pay Commodore, White, and Colaiacovo total?  A good bit more and got worse players.  At the very least the 51 extra points and physicality might have been nice this season.

 

I can dig it.

 

Personally, I'm just wary of any player whose breakout season also happens to be a contract season. I'm not saying you should hold it against the guy. I just think of the 5,000,000 players who've set the world on fire for a season, scored a big ass contract, then gone on to be big disappointments. I fear that's sort of what would happen with Quincey if we were to re-sign him. "Man, Quincey improved so much last season, but he seems to have gone right back to being dog s*** this year. Why?" Probably because he was playing for a contract. It doesn't necessarily reflect poorly on him, it's just how it so often goes with this kind of thing.

 

Also, I do wonder what we'd do about The Youth Below. Like I said, we've already got four defensemen who are going to be Wings for a long time. Niskanen would be a fifth. Maybe we trade Marchenko and Backman and Almqvist, but even then, we'd only have room for one of Ouellet/Sproul. Point being, if we're going to add someone who's going to be with us for a long time, we'd better be damn sure he's going to be damn good for us.

 

Of course, this might all be moot; I've heard he'll probably re-sign with the Pens.


Don't Toews me, bro!


#924 Internet.Unknown

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Posted 28 April 2014 - 08:10 PM

And people who make mudpies thing they have value. It doesn't matter what they think, they are selling a product.

 

I go to multiple games a year, buy their merchandise, watch their broadcasts. I am their customer and their product is fast becoming s***.

 

Tell the Wings. Vote with your pocketbook. Write a letter. Hell, get on twitter and try to convince @DetroitRedWings that the streak is meaningless. You've got numerous options.



#925 Shaman

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Posted 28 April 2014 - 08:13 PM

 

Tell the Wings. Vote with your pocketbook. Write a letter. Hell, get on twitter and try to convince @DetroitRedWings that the streak is meaningless. You've got numerous options.

 

Or I can join a forum and talk about it.


Feuer und Wasser kommt nicht zusammen
Kann man nicht binden sind nicht verwandt
In Funken versunken steh ich in Flammen
und bin im Wasser verbrannt
Im Wasser verbrannt

#926 Internet.Unknown

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Posted 28 April 2014 - 08:15 PM

 

Or I can join a forum and talk about it.

 

Which does nothing to try to convince those in power that the streak is "meaningless."

 

You can shout it here again and again, but until Holland et. al hears and agrees, the Wings' philosophy isn't going to change.



#927 Shaman

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Posted 28 April 2014 - 10:04 PM

 

Which does nothing to try to convince those in power that the streak is "meaningless."

 

You can shout it here again and again, but until Holland et. al hears and agrees, the Wings' philosophy isn't going to change.

The problem is this literally applies to everything that is said on here.

 

Also you remind me a lot of Helen St James. This is not a good thing.


Feuer und Wasser kommt nicht zusammen
Kann man nicht binden sind nicht verwandt
In Funken versunken steh ich in Flammen
und bin im Wasser verbrannt
Im Wasser verbrannt

#928 FlashyG

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Posted 28 April 2014 - 10:31 PM

And people who make mudpies thing they have value. It doesn't matter what they think, they are selling a product.

 

I go to multiple games a year, buy their merchandise, watch their broadcasts. I am their customer and their product is fast becoming s***.

 

If you're unhappy with the product then stop buying it.

 

No team is going to change its direction because a small group of fans wants them too.


Edited by FlashyG, 28 April 2014 - 10:32 PM.


#929 Buppy

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Posted 28 April 2014 - 10:33 PM

The futility of the argument aside, it's a false dilema. Trying to win now and trying to build a contender are not mutually exclusive.



#930 drumnj

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Posted 28 April 2014 - 10:41 PM

Lots of talk throughout this thread of the needed right handed shooter who can rip it from the circle.

If only the Wings had someone who can blast it like this:


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#931 wings_fanatic

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Posted 28 April 2014 - 10:56 PM

I think it is clear that the brass is going to make a couple moves to improve this team in the off season. Lets be realistic, we have a good group put together and, with a couple key additions, we become an instant contender again. 

 

For those of you saying the streak is overrated, I would just like to say that I was born in 1991 and am therefore 23 years old... the same age as the Red Wings playoff streak. It is truly remarkable that I have never not seen the Red Wings in the playoffs. I think it says something about the organization. Yes we might not win the Cup every year, but the mere fact that we get in shows that this team is about winning. Zetty said it best... we have not gone deep enough in the playoffs for too many times in a row lately. The fact that he and Babs both basically said that we need a couple key additions tells me that Kenny will act. 

 

I am honored to call myself a true Red Wings fan because of the passion that the Red Wings and its players have always had for winning. My friend has a little brother that is 14 and he is a Leafs fan. We talked about how the Maple Leafs have missed the playoffs 8 out of the 14 years he has been alive (more then half of his life he has not watched his team in the playoffs). Meanwhile I am 23 and have always had my team to cheer for in the playoffs. Some Red Wings fans take that for granted, but we are such lucky fans and I have faith our team gets much better from here once again.



#932 Dabura

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Posted 29 April 2014 - 02:52 AM

I think the streak is amazing. I think the streak is important. But I think you have to be careful not to place too much importance on the streak itself. Zetterberg himself said he'd trade a season or two of the streak for a deeper run one year. Point being, the streak isn't really about making the playoffs every year. It's about sustained excellence, being in the mix for the Cup every season, not just being glad because "Phew! We kept a streak alive. Thank goodness. Now we can rest a little easier." The Cup is all that matters. 23 straight seasons is important not because it's a ridiculous streak, but because it shows a commitment to winning. But the Wings have to make good on that. The commitment itself can't be fetishized. There has to be some actual winning. Just making the dance isn't good enough, even in a transitional year like this one. It's really interesting to see Zetterberg basically say as much.

 

Then again, I suppose it's possible that the whole sustained excellence and commitment to winning thing might not be doable without yearly playoff revenue. It's entirely possible that Mr. I has been able to spend like he has largely because of the streak itself.


Don't Toews me, bro!


#933 DeGraa55

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Posted 29 April 2014 - 03:45 AM

This off season can be the most exciting off season we have had in awhile as wings fan or one of the most disappointing.

Here is why. We have lots of cap space like 20m. IIRC. Not sure I that was before or after RFA are signed. So we have the ability to target a big name free agent or two. Even if they're signed for three or four year deals they'll be up when guys like nyquist are ready for a big payday.

We also have lots of pieces we COULD trade. Now I'm not saying trade any or all of these players BUT when your list of players on the roster include Howard, mrazek, Ericsson, Franzen, Weiss, helm Tatar nyquist etc etc or guys in the minors like sproul oullete marchenko pulkinnen etc etc we have pieces that could potentially be traded.

REMEMBER IM NOT SAYING TRADE ANY OR ALL. Just listing all guys that could be palaces and there's more besides them. So IF a star player or good player become available we have pieces that can be moved.


So those two things combined in my opinion mean we could have an AWESOME off season and one of the best in awhile. Or we could do the usual sign Alfie and monster and sit in our ass and do nothing just to disappoint me as well as he a first round knockout.

So there's reason to be excited for this offseason!!!! Don't let me down Kenny pleeeeeease don't!

#934 wings1110

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Posted 29 April 2014 - 06:57 AM

Wouldn't mind Steve Downie. 



#935 Dabura

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Posted 29 April 2014 - 07:46 AM

Thinking out loud...

 

Matt Niskanen and Tom Wilson. That, to me, would be a pretty fantastic offseason. I wouldn't expect Wilson to be an impact player right away, but I really, really like his upside. At the very least, he's big and he'll fight. I think we could get him without having to part with any of Nyquist/Tatar/Sheahan/Jurco, which would be huge. But, again, it really does look like we're gonna have to move at least two or three (!) of Ouellet, Sproul, Marchenko, Backman, Almqvist. So...Niskanen, Wilson, and - dare I dream? - a top-six winger?

 

What if - I dare dream! - we go balls to the walls for Simmonds? No, really, being serious this time. Could one of Nyquist/Tatar/Sheahan/Jurco (probably Nyquist in this case), one or two of Ouellet/Sproul/Marchenko/Backman/Almqvist (at least one of Ouellet and Sproul, probably) one or two of Abdelkader/Andersson/Smith/Kindl/Lashoff/Pulkkinen/Callahan/Ferraro and maybe a pick get us Wayne "Was a Wings fan as a kid" Simmonds? As someone who lives in Flyers territory, I can tell you there's pretty much no way in hell he gets moved this summer, or ever. But if we could somehow swing it, he would be manna from heaven. Imagine him on a line with Z and D. Imagine him as the net-front guy on our first power play unit.


Edited by Dabura, 29 April 2014 - 07:48 AM.

Don't Toews me, bro!


#936 BadgerBob

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Posted 29 April 2014 - 08:37 AM

Thinking out loud...

 

Matt Niskanen and Tom Wilson. That, to me, would be a pretty fantastic offseason. I wouldn't expect Wilson to be an impact player right away, but I really, really like his upside. At the very least, he's big and he'll fight. I think we could get him without having to part with any of Nyquist/Tatar/Sheahan/Jurco, which would be huge. But, again, it really does look like we're gonna have to move at least two or three (!) of Ouellet, Sproul, Marchenko, Backman, Almqvist. So...Niskanen, Wilson, and - dare I dream? - a top-six winger?

 

What if - I dare dream! - we go balls to the walls for Simmonds? No, really, being serious this time. Could one of Nyquist/Tatar/Sheahan/Jurco (probably Nyquist in this case), one or two of Ouellet/Sproul/Marchenko/Backman/Almqvist (at least one of Ouellet and Sproul, probably) one or two of Abdelkader/Andersson/Smith/Kindl/Lashoff/Pulkkinen/Callahan/Ferraro and maybe a pick get us Wayne "Was a Wings fan as a kid" Simmonds? As someone who lives in Flyers territory, I can tell you there's pretty much no way in hell he gets moved this summer, or ever. But if we could somehow swing it, he would be manna from heaven. Imagine him on a line with Z and D. Imagine him as the net-front guy on our first power play unit.

 

If we're going to give up that much, I'd rather it be fore someone better than Wayne Simmonds. Just my opinion.



#937 kipwinger

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Posted 29 April 2014 - 08:44 AM

Dabura, your posts are too long for me to respond to all your points.  So, a couple of things...

 

Niskanen having a career year in a contract year worries me too, but in addition to coinciding with a contract season his explosion also coincides with the average trajectory for defenseman development, as well as the Pens losing their top guy and giving Niskanen the opportunity to shine.  But again, dually noted on the correlation.

 

If they Pens can sign him after all the money they've spent the last couple of years I'll be blown away.

 

The whole post about fetishizing the streak was right on. 

 

Dream big with the Simmonds thing.  Ain't happening. 


GMRwings:  "Well, in other civilized countries, 16 years old isn't considered underage.  For instance, I believe the age of consent is 16 in Canada.  There's some US states where it's 16 as well.  

 

Get off the high horse.  Not like she was 10."

 

"Some girls are 17 even though they look 25."

 

 


#938 wings7

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Posted 29 April 2014 - 09:00 AM

Why I want Holland gone...He thinks this series was close.

 

“It was a learningicon1.png experience,” Holland said. “When you look at it, Game 5 was 3-2 (before a Boston empty-net goal), Game 4 went into overtime. Those were close games.”

From The Detroit News: http://www.detroitne...5#ixzz30HeHvCoW



#939 kipwinger

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Posted 29 April 2014 - 09:09 AM

Why I want Holland gone...He thinks this series was close.

 

“It was a learningicon1.png experience,” Holland said. “When you look at it, Game 5 was 3-2 (before a Boston empty-net goal), Game 4 went into overtime. Those were close games.”

From The Detroit News: http://www.detroitne...5#ixzz30HeHvCoW

 

I'm not going to try and talk you into liking Holland, you seem pretty dead set against it.  But those were close games (on the scoreboard).  Only problem is that despite their closeness, we had no realistic shot at winning any of them. 


GMRwings:  "Well, in other civilized countries, 16 years old isn't considered underage.  For instance, I believe the age of consent is 16 in Canada.  There's some US states where it's 16 as well.  

 

Get off the high horse.  Not like she was 10."

 

"Some girls are 17 even though they look 25."

 

 


#940 wings7

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Posted 29 April 2014 - 09:13 AM

 

I'm not going to try and talk you into liking Holland, you seem pretty dead set against it.  But those were close games (on the scoreboard).  Only problem is that despite their closeness, we had no realistic shot at winning any of them. 

 

He doesn't seem to have the same perspective and competitive nature that Nill, Scotty, Yzerman etc had.

 

Those games were close only via score, you're 100% right.

 

No one thought we were winning those games after the ice shifted in game 4 and really in game 5 it seemed like Boston was toying with us, playing just hard enough to win and move on.







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