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Next Seasons Needs/Team Future


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#1021 LeftWinger

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Posted 30 April 2014 - 04:05 PM

:lol: Holland overpays in trade yet tries to under pay the UFA's out there... I think he has it backwards.

 

That  being said, I would also take Kesler for Helm, Smith and 1st.  But as I mentioned in the other thread, what about throwing Edler in? What would have to be added to make that blockbuster?  I personally would throw Franzen in along with Almqvist.


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#1022 DeGraa55

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Posted 30 April 2014 - 04:11 PM

:lol: Holland overpays in trade yet tries to under pay the UFA's out there... I think he has it backwards.
 
That  being said, I would also take Kesler for Helm, Smith and 1st.  But as I mentioned in the other thread, what about throwing Edler in? What would have to be added to make that blockbuster?  I personally would throw Franzen in along with Almqvist.


Adding in Franzen for elder? No that wouldn't get it done. If any GM actually watches Franzen play they'd realize just how little worth he has.

#1023 marcaractac

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Posted 30 April 2014 - 04:36 PM

Am I the only one who thinks trading Helm, Smith and a 1st for Kesler is insane? With his style of play, i'll be shocked if he can play at the level he has (when healthy) for 4 or 5 years. If we're gonna be trading young NHL level players, Kesler is not the idea candidate. Trade for someone entering their prime, or stick with what they have and reassess at the deadline. We're finally rid of Cleary. We don't need another player whose body will start to break down on him in the next few years. Especially at that price. 

 

Edit: Also, with the improvement Smith showed over the course of just one full season, I think it would be crazy to give him up now. Also unlike Kesler, most of Helm's injuries have been freak injuries. We can't give up on him when he is finally healthy and is only now gonna get a healthy summer of training in. 


Edited by marcaractac, 30 April 2014 - 04:54 PM.


#1024 DeGraa55

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Posted 30 April 2014 - 05:05 PM

Am I the only one who thinks trading Helm, Smith and a 1st for Kesler is insane? With his style of play, i'll be shocked if he can play at the level he has (when healthy) for 4 or 5 years. If we're gonna be trading young NHL level players, Kesler is not the idea candidate. Trade for someone entering their prime, or stick with what they have and reassess at the deadline. We're finally rid of Cleary. We don't need another player whose body will start to break down on him in the next few years. Especially at that price. 
 
Edit: Also, with the improvement Smith showed over the course of just one full season, I think it would be crazy to give him up now. Also unlike Kesler, most of Helm's injuries have been freak injuries. We can't give up on him when he is finally healthy and is only now gonna get a healthy summer of training in. 


"Freak" injuries or not it's still a trend I don't see ending. But I do agree I don't want smith traded. He was our best five in five defenseman.

#1025 kipwinger

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Posted 30 April 2014 - 05:11 PM

Am I the only one who thinks trading Helm, Smith and a 1st for Kesler is insane? With his style of play, i'll be shocked if he can play at the level he has (when healthy) for 4 or 5 years. If we're gonna be trading young NHL level players, Kesler is not the idea candidate. Trade for someone entering their prime, or stick with what they have and reassess at the deadline. We're finally rid of Cleary. We don't need another player whose body will start to break down on him in the next few years. Especially at that price. 

 

Edit: Also, with the improvement Smith showed over the course of just one full season, I think it would be crazy to give him up now. Also unlike Kesler, most of Helm's injuries have been freak injuries. We can't give up on him when he is finally healthy and is only now gonna get a healthy summer of training in. 

 

It's not a matter of giving up on anyone.  It's a matter of changing the dynamic of the team because the same old thing just isn't working.  Also, Kesler is 29 and has played in 77 or more games 7 out of 10 years in the league, only dipping below that in the lockout year, his rookie year (when he likely didn't dress all 82 games), and one other time about six years ago.  He only missed 5 games this year...with a broken finger...suffered in the Olympics.  That's a higher rate of games played per season than Datsyuk or Zetterberg, nevermind Helm.  It's not like he's Vincent Lecavalier or anything.  He's also under contract for two more years at 5 million dollars...so he's not exactly breaking the bank. 

 

No matter how you cut it, we're a MUCH better team with Niskanen and Kesler rather than Helm, Smith and a 1st. And you're not giving up the world.  One (or all) of Sproul, Ouellet, Marchenko, and Backman projects as high or higher than Smith and Sheahan is probably already better than Helm. 

 

Plus, how do you not like the size and speed of a team with Kesler, Sheahan, Jurco, Abby, and Franzen (and in a year or so Mantha).  Just written down it's tougher to play against than the team we actually iced for the last five years or so.  Everybody always wants to get younger, faster, and harder to play against.  Here's how we can do it, and it will only cost Helm, Smith, and a 1st.  Hell it may even cost you less (but I'd gladly go this high). 


Edited by kipwinger, 30 April 2014 - 05:24 PM.

GMRwings:  "Well, in other civilized countries, 16 years old isn't considered underage.  For instance, I believe the age of consent is 16 in Canada.  There's some US states where it's 16 as well.  

 

Get off the high horse.  Not like she was 10."

 

"Some girls are 17 even though they look 25."

 

 


#1026 marcaractac

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Posted 30 April 2014 - 05:55 PM

 

It's not a matter of giving up on anyone.  It's a matter of changing the dynamic of the team because the same old thing just isn't working.  Also, Kesler is 29 and has played in 77 or more games 7 out of 10 years in the league, only dipping below that in the lockout year, his rookie year (when he likely didn't dress all 82 games), and one other time about six years ago.  He only missed 5 games this year...with a broken finger...suffered in the Olympics.  That's a higher rate of games played per season than Datsyuk or Zetterberg, nevermind Helm.  It's not like he's Vincent Lecavalier or anything.  He's also under contract for two more years at 5 million dollars...so he's not exactly breaking the bank. 

 

No matter how you cut it, we're a MUCH better team with Niskanen and Kesler rather than Helm, Smith and a 1st. And you're not giving up the world.  One (or all) of Sproul, Ouellet, Marchenko, and Backman projects as high or higher than Smith and Sheahan is probably already better than Helm. 

 

Plus, how do you not like the size and speed of a team with Kesler, Sheahan, Jurco, Abby, and Franzen (and in a year or so Mantha).  Just written down it's tougher to play against than the team we actually iced for the last five years or so.  Everybody always wants to get younger, faster, and harder to play against.  Here's how we can do it, and it will only cost Helm, Smith, and a 1st.  Hell it may even cost you less (but I'd gladly go this high). 

 

Don't get me wrong, I think Kesler is a great player. I just don't think Smith, Helm and a 1st is the right way to go about getting him. I get we have to give something up to get something back. I just think there are other ways of going about it. Plus, what if Kesler is traded before Niskanen decides where he wants to go? 

 

In the end, this team has needs up front and on the back end. I just don't think trading an improving defender with loads of potential (that he is starting to look like he may live up to) to fix the issues at forward is the right way to go about it when our defense is having problems as well. We need to bolster the blue line, not trade away one of its bright spots and add Niskanen. That will only improve the D so much. 


Edited by marcaractac, 30 April 2014 - 06:05 PM.


#1027 Buppy

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Posted 30 April 2014 - 06:05 PM

Am I the only one who thinks trading Helm, Smith and a 1st for Kesler is insane? With his style of play, i'll be shocked if he can play at the level he has (when healthy) for 4 or 5 years. If we're gonna be trading young NHL level players, Kesler is not the idea candidate. Trade for someone entering their prime, or stick with what they have and reassess at the deadline. We're finally rid of Cleary. We don't need another player whose body will start to break down on him in the next few years. Especially at that price. 

 

Edit: Also, with the improvement Smith showed over the course of just one full season, I think it would be crazy to give him up now. Also unlike Kesler, most of Helm's injuries have been freak injuries. We can't give up on him when he is finally healthy and is only now gonna get a healthy summer of training in. 

Probably not. Lot of people still value Helm too highly.

 

Helm is not that much younger, and has a much worse injury history. Their style isn't that much different either. If I had to pick between 4 years of Kesler and 6-7 years of Helm I'd go with Kesler every time.

 

I'm indifferent on Smith. I think he'll be a good player, but with everyone else we have I don't think losing him would hurt all that much.

 

The sticking point for me would be the 1st. If it had to be a first and this year I'd want to wait to see who's still available. There's a few kids I think would be more valuable that what Kesler offers over Helm. (Alternately, if we could do it with someone below Helm, I'd part with the first more easily.)



#1028 marcaractac

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Posted 30 April 2014 - 06:17 PM

Probably not. Lot of people still value Helm too highly.

 

Helm is not that much younger, and has a much worse injury history. Their style isn't that much different either. If I had to pick between 4 years of Kesler and 6-7 years of Helm I'd go with Kesler every time.

 

I'm indifferent on Smith. I think he'll be a good player, but with everyone else we have I don't think losing him would hurt all that much.

 

The sticking point for me would be the 1st. If it had to be a first and this year I'd want to wait to see who's still available. There's a few kids I think would be more valuable that what Kesler offers over Helm. (Alternately, if we could do it with someone below Helm, I'd part with the first more easily.)

 

I just think if we were to move Smith, it would have to be for an established dman. Trading a dman to fix our problems up front is just shifting problems around. I agree Helm in a package for Kesler would be fair. Luckily Kesler has wheels to. I do think there is a trade there that works out better for both teams as far as landing Kesler goes.



#1029 BottleOfSmoke

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Posted 30 April 2014 - 06:21 PM

I keep coming in this thread to type something sarcastic like we need groins made out of mithril and we need our fans to stop being whiny ******* but then I just meh and go eat some ice cream.

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#1030 darkmanx

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Posted 30 April 2014 - 06:22 PM

Needs? Top 4 dman and a winger that can play with Datsyuk and Zetterberg. Abby should not see a lick of time in the top 6, we need a finisher.



#1031 marcaractac

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Posted 30 April 2014 - 06:25 PM

I keep coming in this thread to type something sarcastic like we need groins made out of mithril and we need our fans to stop being whiny ******* but then I just meh and go eat some ice cream.

 

Hire Gary Robers to lead the training staff! lol



#1032 marcaractac

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Posted 30 April 2014 - 07:23 PM

A lot of peopel are concerned about what happens post Datsyuk and Zetterberg (and rightfully so). I'm bored out of my mind at work and have been doing a lot of thinking about players like Nyquist, and how many say he can never be that kind of player. 

 

When it comes down to it, it was 4 and 5 years for Hank and Dats in the NHL before they started to emerge as the players they have become. In my opinion, if any the youth in the system right now have a great worth ethic and are as dedicated as Hank and Pasha always have been, I have no doubt tone or two of them could emerge to be leaders of this team down the road. Sure there will continue to be growing pains, and sure there are other needs this team has. But this foolishness of the Wings becoming the next Calgary Flames is silly, IMO.

 

Hank and Pasha became the players they did because they worked their asses off. To to this day they continue to work on things to improve themselves as players. They don't settle for anything. They are also the leaders of the team, and are who the kids are learning from. It's how the Wings have always done things, and will continue to do so. 

 

We don;t need the kids to become the next Datsyuk and Zetterberg. We need the kids to become the first Nyquist's, Jurco's, Tatar's, etc.I by no means think they are all gonna become world class players. But there is a culture within the organization of working hard and earning everything that comes to them. Nothing is handed to anybody. That is likely why Jarnkrok is no longer here. 

 

There will always need to be pieces added along the way. Just as it has been in the past ala Stuart and Rafalski. Even when they won it all in 2008, it was the result of a 3 year process. They didn't mortgage the future to win back then, and they won't do it now. Patience is key, and this team will be fine. 



#1033 Internet.Unknown

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Posted 30 April 2014 - 07:29 PM

 

I don't think Holland has done anything for the team. I think it's been other people and Holland getting more credit than he deserves. Bowman was still here with Holland even when we won in 08. Since Bowman left, everything has fallen to s***.

 

I've suggested as much in the past and been ridiculed. Be ready ...



#1034 marcaractac

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Posted 30 April 2014 - 07:44 PM

 

I've suggested as much in the past and been ridiculed. Be ready ...

 

I don't think being frustrated with some things Holland have done is wrong. But people are looking at the mistakes he did make and are judging his ability to do his job based solely on that. All while ignoring all the good he has done. News flash: he has still done plenty of good. 



#1035 Internet.Unknown

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Posted 30 April 2014 - 07:45 PM

 

I don't think being frustrated with some things Holland have done is wrong. But people are looking at the mistakes he did make and are judging his ability to do his job based solely on that. All while ignoring all the good he has done. News flash: he has still done plenty of good. 

Waah! Quit ridiculing me.

 

Kidding. :)



#1036 marcaractac

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Posted 30 April 2014 - 07:49 PM

Waah! Quit ridiculing me.

 

Kidding. :)

 

Nahhh No ridicule from me. I always try to see things from the positive side :)



#1037 BottleOfSmoke

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Posted 30 April 2014 - 08:20 PM

I'm bored out of my mind at work and have been doing a lot of thinking about players like Nyquist 


Come meh and eat ice cream with me. The Detroit Red Whats? Hah!

*cries*

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#1038 marcaractac

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Posted 30 April 2014 - 08:28 PM

Come meh and eat ice cream with me. The Detroit Red Whats? Hah!

*cries*

 

Are you going through butt patting withdraw?



#1039 BottleOfSmoke

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Posted 30 April 2014 - 09:11 PM

 
Are you going through butt patting withdraw?


Future needs: more butts to pat

:(

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#1040 marcaractac

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Posted 30 April 2014 - 11:51 PM

So.... how about Pavelski? You gotta think changes are coming in SJ. Same results with 2 different coaches. Proof is there that the players just can't get it done.







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