• Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

Andy Pred 48

Next Seasons Needs/Team Future

Rate this topic

Recommended Posts

You know what this Wings in the playoffs reminded me of this year? The Habs in the playoffs last year. Experience is a big thing.

Yes we had a whole new level of inexperience in the playoffs that we're not used to. I just think all the injuries and how many games we've had where the team appeared completely out of gas has something to do with preparation. Too many guys thinking they can get away with not putting in the hard work in the off season, practice and weight room. I don't see anybody talk about any of our guys being a beast training wise like Stamkos and other elite players

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes we had a whole new level of inexperience in the playoffs that we're not used to. I just think all the injuries and how many games we've had where the team appeared completely out of gas has something to do with preparation. Too many guys thinking they can get away with not putting in the hard work in the off season, practice and weight room. I don't see anybody talk about any of our guys being a beast training wise like Stamkos and other elite players

I've wondered about this, because it does seem to be an issue. So many times this season we looked absolutely gassed halfway through the game, for no good reason. (Wasn't the switch to the Eastern Conference supposed to reduce wear and tear?) My guess is it's our style of play, our systems, our makeup. We preach skill and puck possession. We need to have the puck and force the other team to run around and chase the play. We're not doing that anymore, because we suck, so we end up doing a lot of running around and having to forecheck aggressively and all that physical stuff that the average team lives and breathes and embodies. (Blue collar, white collar.) We don't build our roster that way, we haven't really drafted that way, we don't use those systems. And now all of a sudden we're supposed to be a really tough, gritty, grinding, tight-checking team of "everydayers"? Not with the personnel we have. Not with most of our forwards being 5'11.

Then you compound that with our better players all being into their 30s, and our better younger players needing to learn how to pace themselves and such (adrenaline only gets you so far and can, in fact, work against you over the course of a full game), and the game just generally getting bigger, faster, stronger, younger. It's a concern. What is our identity moving forward? Can we face up to the fact that we're no longer ahead of the curve in believing puck possession is everything?

Edited by Dabura

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

not sure if any of you are following the WC but one guy that has stood out so far is a R/H D man

whom i believe is a UFA. Only played a few games over here in the A but he looks like he could

do a job for us, Vet D R/H shot 6' 203lb used on the PP and ave over 22min for the Czech side.

Ondrej Nemec.

Edited by Andy Pred 48

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Zetterberg-Datsyuk-Wheeler

Jurco-Sheahan-Burns

Mantha-Franzen-Pulkkinen

Abdelkader-Helm-Callahan

Glendening

Kronwall-Smith

DeKeyser-Niskanen

Ericsson-Marchenko

Kindl

So how are we acquiring a roster like this? Who do you give up for Burns and Wheeler??

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes we had a whole new level of inexperience in the playoffs that we're not used to. I just think all the injuries and how many games we've had where the team appeared completely out of gas has something to do with preparation. Too many guys thinking they can get away with not putting in the hard work in the off season, practice and weight room. I don't see anybody talk about any of our guys being a beast training wise like Stamkos and other elite players

Aren't some of our guys signed up for the Gary Roberts is gonna make you a man this summer camp?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So how are we acquiring a roster like this? Who do you give up for Burns and Wheeler??

I'm guessing he sent Weiss and Tatar to the Jets for Wheeler, plus Nyquist and Miller to the Sharks for Burns. (based solely on who he left out of his lineup)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So how are we acquiring a roster like this? Who do you give up for Burns and Wheeler??

It's looking like Tatar and Lashoff for Burns and then Weiss and Andersson for Wheeler. Sounds perfectly fair :w00t:

I'm guessing he sent Weiss and Tatar to the Jets for Wheeler, plus Nyquist and Miller to the Sharks for Burns. (based solely on who he left out of his lineup)

For some reason I didn't see Nyquist missing from that lineup. May as well give up on the kids cause we didn't beat the Bruins....the won't get any better.

Edited by Z Winged Dangler

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Here's 2 moves I would make: (I am trying to be reasonably unreasonable as I know these are far-fetched moves but they aren't impossible)

-Trade Nyquist, Tatar, Dekeyser and a 1st Round Pick for Shea Weber. (I know its a lot, but we have a handful of small skilled players and it seemed to kill us in the playoffs against a much bigger, more physical team. Plus after getting fleeced for Legwand, we aren't getting Weber for anything less)

-Sign Vanek

ZETTERBERG - DATSYUK - MANTHA

FRANZEN - HELM - VANEK

PULKKINEN - SHEAHAN - JURCO

ABDELKADER - GLEN/WEISS -MILLER

WEBER - KRONWALL

ERICSSON - SMITH

SPROUL - KINDL/LASHOFF

HOWARD

MRAZEK

Before everyone freaks out by explaining how much were giving up here, understand that Shea Weber is a top 2/3 Defenseman in the NHL - He shoots Right, is almost impossible to beat 1 on 1 and represents a physical presence we haven't seen since Brad Stuart departed. He would instantly QB both our powerplay and penalty kill and most importantly allow Ericsson to drop down the second unit. His cap hit is reasonable (considering Dion makes 7 Million annually) and brings tons of leadership to our younger players.

- Vanek represents a Big + RH handed (very skilled) winger.

- Promoting Mantha (a very big, pure scoring RW) to the 1ST line with D AND Z is an upgrade over Cleary, Abdelkader, Alfreddson, or Holmstrom (all players who have recently played in this spot)

- Promoting Pulkkinen (a very skilled, very quick LW, with an unbelievable RH shot) to Tatars old spot on a line with Jurco and Sheahan is also an upgrade in my opinion.

What do you guys think? I know both of these moves probably don't happen - but isn't that what this thread is for considering the date?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So how are we acquiring a roster like this? Who do you give up for Burns and Wheeler??

It was more of an ideal world roster kind of situation, but we absolutely have the assets to make it happen. I suppose that I would trade Tater, Backman and our 2014 1st for Burns this year, call up Mantha, pulkkinen and marchenko, give all of our young players and Weiss a year to prove themselves, and then trade Nyquist, weiss, athanasiou and our 2015 1st for wheeler next summer.

Not sure why everyone got so offended, its not like that roster is impossible to achieve...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Here's 2 moves I would make: (I am trying to be reasonably unreasonable as I know these are far-fetched moves but they aren't impossible)

-Trade Nyquist, Tatar, Dekeyser and a 1st Round Pick for Shea Weber. (I know its a lot, but we have a handful of small skilled players and it seemed to kill us in the playoffs against a much bigger, more physical team. Plus after getting fleeced for Legwand, we aren't getting Weber for anything less)

-Sign Vanek

ZETTERBERG - DATSYUK - MANTHA

FRANZEN - HELM - VANEK

PULKKINEN - SHEAHAN - JURCO

ABDELKADER - GLEN/WEISS -MILLER

WEBER - KRONWALL

ERICSSON - SMITH

SPROUL - KINDL/LASHOFF

HOWARD

MRAZEK

Before everyone freaks out by explaining how much were giving up here, understand that Shea Weber is a top 2/3 Defenseman in the NHL - He shoots Right, is almost impossible to beat 1 on 1 and represents a physical presence we haven't seen since Brad Stuart departed. He would instantly QB both our powerplay and penalty kill and most importantly allow Ericsson to drop down the second unit. His cap hit is reasonable (considering Dion makes 7 Million annually) and brings tons of leadership to our younger players.

- Vanek represents a Big + RH handed (very skilled) winger.

- Promoting Mantha (a very big, pure scoring RW) to the 1ST line with D AND Z is an upgrade over Cleary, Abdelkader, Alfreddson, or Holmstrom (all players who have recently played in this spot)

- Promoting Pulkkinen (a very skilled, very quick LW, with an unbelievable RH shot) to Tatars old spot on a line with Jurco and Sheahan is also an upgrade in my opinion.

What do you guys think? I know both of these moves probably don't happen - but isn't that what this thread is for considering the date?

That is an awful idea. You just don't trade away Nyquist after the season he had. It baffles me that so many are willing to do so. Furthermore, by you trading away that many components of our team, we will go back to sucking when pav and hank retire in a few years. The only way I'd ever trade Nyquist and Tatar is for evgeni Malkin that would be it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Anyone can be traded in the right deal. While I like what the young guys bring, if you can upgrade you do it. As for Nyquist it is a very real possibility that he just had his career year as a goal scorer. He scored 28 goals in 57 games with an 18.3 shooting %, which is very very high. Most of your best goal scorers are in the 12-13% range. This year he averaged 2.6 shots per game. if you do the math for 75 games at the 12-13% mark, Nyquist drops down to 23-26 goals for the full season. Sometimes you need to move guys when they are hot, others you hold onto. Which is he? No one really knows, but never rule anything out.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Anyone can be traded in the right deal. While I like what the young guys bring, if you can upgrade you do it. As for Nyquist it is a very real possibility that he just had his career year as a goal scorer. He scored 28 goals in 57 games with an 18.3 shooting %, which is very very high. Most of your best goal scorers are in the 12-13% range. This year he averaged 2.6 shots per game. if you do the math for 75 games at the 12-13% mark, Nyquist drops down to 23-26 goals for the full season. Sometimes you need to move guys when they are hot, others you hold onto. Which is he? No one really knows, but never rule anything out.

And if you change his ice time stats to that of your best goal scorers (21 min/game) like you did his shooting percentage and do the math, he scores 32 because he'd have more shots each game. Don't just change the stats that support your point. It's getting old.

Edit: the 32 goals I got using his shots/minute rated to 21 min/game and the same number of games and shooting percentage that Rich used.

Edited by nawein

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ice time changes every year for every player. It is impossible to predict. yes if he was to play 20 mins per game he may get more shots. But that doesn't always hold true. The fact is Nyquist just performed better at the highest level than he ever did in college or the minors. Now some of that is the position change. Prior to this year with the RW's he was a C. For the RW's he played wing and was told to shot more. he did. However, history is filled in all sports with guys that had their best year-offensively in the first year.

BTW there is nothing wrong with a guy that scores 23-26 goals over the course of 75 games. We need more that can do it. We had 1 guy that scored 20+.

Holland has already talked about adding a top 4 RHed Dman and a top 6 scorer. teams don't give away those types of players. To get you have to give. Nyquist has what could be his highest trade value right now.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ice time changes every year for every player. It is impossible to predict. yes if he was to play 20 mins per game he may get more shots. But that doesn't always hold true. The fact is Nyquist just performed better at the highest level than he ever did in college or the minors. Now some of that is the position change. Prior to this year with the RW's he was a C. For the RW's he played wing and was told to shot more. he did. However, history is filled in all sports with guys that had their best year-offensively in the first year.

BTW there is nothing wrong with a guy that scores 23-26 goals over the course of 75 games. We need more that can do it. We had 1 guy that scored 20+.

Holland has already talked about adding a top 4 RHed Dman and a top 6 scorer. teams don't give away those types of players. To get you have to give. Nyquist has what could be his highest trade value right now.

Actually he has been playing rw even in grand rapids for some time and his been progressively getting better every year, he was on pace for 28 goals in 60 games in the ahl before coming to Detroit with 7 goals 21 points in 15 games. last year had 23, goals, 60 points in 58 games. Year before 22 goals, 58 points in 56 games. He clearly works hard and strives to be better every year and does what his coach asks of him, and is humble allowing him to better himself. I believe he can be a 30 goal 70 point guy in the nhl solely based on his ability to adapt and change his game, and the fact that he can score from anywhere and has awesome speed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest fat guy in a maltby jersey

it would be fantastic if nyquist was the centerpiece in a deal for weber.

what you suggested though (nyquist, tatar, dekeyser, 1st) isn't getting weber.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

0/10, not enough Hampus. Needs more Melen.

Any time I think of Hampus Melen I think of Hampus Lindholm and then I think of Elias Lindholm and then I think of Elias Lindholm's late cousin Calle Jarnkrok (RIP) and then I think of David Legwand and then I think of Stephen Weiss and it's at this point that I get mad at Valtteri Filppula because he doesn't remind me of anyone even though he was our second-line center for, like, 20 years though he does look kinda like Lauren Bush who I think has great legs and what were we talking about again oh yeah Hampus Lindholm. Hey, you know who Hampus Lindholm reminds me of?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

BTW nawin, you are arguing for something that doesn't happen for any RW not named Datsyuk or Zetterberg. The last time another RW forward played 20+ mins per game was 2002/03 and some guy named federov did it. Even Datsyuk and Z only get to the 20 min mark in about half of their seasons. A typical year has Z and D at about 20, then 3-5 more forwards in the 16-18 min range, which is fact Nyquist was at this year. he was 5th for us in TOI/game this season.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Anyone else feel like nyquist is this yers brunner? Trade him now while we still can!

Brunner played all year with Datsyuk or Zetty. Nyquist was good all season with Zetty and when Pav and Hank were BOTH out, Nyquist raised his game even more and single handedly took our team to the playoffs. Nyquist displayed that he is not only a good player, but also a smart player, a hard worker, a team first kind of guy and most importantly, a good leader. That is NOT the type of player you trade away and he is absolutely not even comparable to Brunner. My god some ppl...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Anyone else feel like nyquist is this yers brunner? Trade him now while we still can!

No..... I don't remember seeing Brunner do this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4f8__aC9R_Q

That is compete, effort, speed and high level of skill. Brunner didn't have half of that.

Edited by darkmanx

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now