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Next Seasons Needs/Team Future


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#1441 frankgrimes

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Posted 19 May 2014 - 09:52 AM

A lot of the Wings needs, are already kind of filled.  If we let these young guys grow, the holes in our roster will slowly melt away.  Tatar, Nyquist, Jurco, Sheahan, DeKeyser need to be untouchable right now.  They'll get better and better each year and the need for a goal scoring snipers, two way shutdown forwards and solid two way defensive men will go away without having to overpay for some name on the free agent market.

 

I think Holland will do what he's been doing, use cap space to lock up young guns and pick up some players that can fit into our system at a good price.  While in the past this strategy has annoyed me, we're no longer in the "win now" way of thinking, which is unfortunate for Datsyuk and Zetterberg, but its what's best for the long term success of the franchise.

 

I think if Holland stays the course, we'll be a strong Cup contender in 2-3 years.  The young guys have given me hope and showed a lot more quicker than I expected.  Granted it was only a couple hockey analysts, but hearing people mention Nyquist's name for the Hart is very promising.

 

The problem with that is you can fill most spots with good drafting and developing - which the Wings are obviously doing - but replacing Datsyuk and Zetterberg ? Oh boy that's a huge task we are talking about two allstars with an almost perfect 200ft game and on top of that Holland would have to do it with high picks not an easy task at all.

 

I love the way Tatar, Nyquist, Dekeyser, Sheahan and even Jurco are progressing but I'm not expecting either them to become stars and for sure not allstars. The good thing is, Chicago will soon have to raise Seabrook, Toews and Kane in the same year and they won't have enough cap to do it so I know a lot of people don't like him but I would welcome Toews with open arms on this team.


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#1442 DannyD

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Posted 19 May 2014 - 10:03 AM

Call me crazy but I don't think we need to trade the farm for a "sniper" especially when we have someone like Mantha who could step in this year or next year. Someone who could pot 35-40 goals would be awesome, don't get me wrong, but look at it in the grand scheme of things. We have 4 guys next year that are still relatively new to the team that could all score around 20 goals.

 

Goose 22-24 goals.

Tatar 21-22

Sheahan 18-20

Jurco 18-20

Pulks could probably be a 15-20 goal scorer in is first couple years if given PP time as well, imo.

 

I would much rather have balanced scoring and guys on three lines who can net us some goals rather than relying on one or two guys to get the job done, not to mention these kids are going to keep progressing and becoming better players. If we could add someone in FA than I'm all for it, but I don't see the need in trading away Goose or Tatar for a guy who MAYBE will net 10 more goals than them.

 

Now I would trade away Tats in a package for a top Dman, but that's a different story. 



#1443 Rivalred

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Posted 19 May 2014 - 10:26 AM

I can see nyquist putting up 70 points/year by then


Hope you don't live near a busy intersection, as you may end up running in traffic if he doesn't; basically don't get your hopes up.

If he continues what he did next season or two, then he is the real deal, until then, I for one am not expecting much out of him, as many others shouldn't either.

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#1444 DickieDunn

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Posted 19 May 2014 - 11:11 AM

If I can trade someone who could be a 30 goal scorer for someone who is a 30 goal scorer and is in his prime years, I'd do it in a hot second.


Oh this young man has had a very trying rookie season, with the litigation, the notoriety, his subsequent deportation to Canada and that country's refusal to accept him, well, I guess that's more than most 21-year-olds can handle... Ogie Ogilthorpe!


#1445 BadgerBob

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Posted 19 May 2014 - 11:25 AM

 

The problem with that is you can fill most spots with good drafting and developing - which the Wings are obviously doing - but replacing Datsyuk and Zetterberg ? Oh boy that's a huge task we are talking about two allstars with an almost perfect 200ft game and on top of that Holland would have to do it with high picks not an easy task at all.

 

I love the way Tatar, Nyquist, Dekeyser, Sheahan and even Jurco are progressing but I'm not expecting either them to become stars and for sure not allstars. The good thing is, Chicago will soon have to raise Seabrook, Toews and Kane in the same year and they won't have enough cap to do it so I know a lot of people don't like him but I would welcome Toews with open arms on this team.

 

No way Toews is the odd man out in that group.



#1446 Dabura

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Posted 19 May 2014 - 11:42 AM

The big thing for young forwards these days is value. Point totals are only half of that equation. Maybe Nyquist won't set the world on fire, but if he can produce like a $5M Daniel Alfredsson (in 2013-14) while on a modest early contract, that's a great value, which is hugely important. Elliotte Friedman touched on this:

 

 

Pittsburgh doesn't have young forwards on early deals like Bryan Bickell, Brandon Saad and Andrew Shaw, who played major roles in Chicago's recent win. That's who they've got to find, and no one would be surprised if they tested James Neal's value to see what's out there.

 

(Side note: Like I've said, I think Neal to SJ looks realistic.)

 

Holland actually had the right idea when he re-signed Bertuzzi, Samuelsson, and Cleary. He thought he'd be getting pretty good value for these guys. Problem with that is, of course, you're counting on a best-case scenario in all three cases. The guys would pretty much have to produce to their ceilings for their deals to look really good, and that's not realistic, for a number of reasons.

 

This is why I'm ok with a youth movement @ forward. You need a nucles of overachievers, guys under the age of 28 who are putting up very good numbers relative to what they're getting paid and what's being expected of them. Like, if Sheahan is ready to be our second-line center (and the case could be made that he is), that's a 2C you don't have to pay $4-6M, and that's money you can give an elite player to fill an important hole on your roster (say, in your top four).

 

The guy I really want to see break out next season is Jurco. Remember how *valuable* Franzen was for us, pre-extension? We've been missing a player and value like that. We've been leaning too heavily on the guys who are "knowns" for us.

 

As for Nyquist, I think he just needs to add some bulk like Z did way back in the day.


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#1447 Dabura

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Posted 19 May 2014 - 11:55 AM

If I can trade someone who could be a 30 goal scorer for someone who is a 30 goal scorer and is in his prime years, I'd do it in a hot second.

 

There would have to be a catch, though. There's always a catch. Like, the guy in his prime is on a really ugly contract that his GM is all too eager to dump on someone.

 

I'm pro-trading potentials for knowns. I just don't think Bergevin gives us Pacioretty for Nyquist.


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#1448 Motown4013

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Posted 19 May 2014 - 12:12 PM

I don't see his points being that high . Dats and Z have been the only guys that have done that for us in the last ten years and even though Nyquist has major skill, he isn't Dats or Z.


I can't disagree more......he is the best young guy on this team. Heart of a lion, super hockey IQ, he plays well at both ends of the ice, quick on his skates. What's not to love about this kid? He is NOT Franzen because he works his butt off every shift. He led the league in points in the last month ......more than Crosy, OV, Perry or whomever. You said in a prior shift that we should trade him now because he isn't going to get better......what? Did he not get better, and Better and BETTER all year? This guy can easily have an 80 pt year. Yep, we should trade him now.
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#1449 Dabura

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Posted 19 May 2014 - 12:12 PM

I do wonder about Mantha's trade value. Could he be considered a major piece in a trade for an elite player? Would the aforementioned Habs be interested in him?

 

Not that I'm thinking we need to unload him.


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#1450 DickieDunn

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Posted 19 May 2014 - 12:37 PM

 

There would have to be a catch, though. There's always a catch. Like, the guy in his prime is on a really ugly contract that his GM is all too eager to dump on someone.

 

I'm pro-trading potentials for knowns. I just don't think Bergevin gives us Pacioretty for Nyquist.

 

Nyquist, no.  Mantha, maybe.  Granted, those types rarely get traded unless either they're partying too much, demand a trade, or something similar, but if you have a chance to get that type of player you do it.


Oh this young man has had a very trying rookie season, with the litigation, the notoriety, his subsequent deportation to Canada and that country's refusal to accept him, well, I guess that's more than most 21-year-olds can handle... Ogie Ogilthorpe!


#1451 Dabura

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Posted 19 May 2014 - 02:17 PM

Nyquist, no.  Mantha, maybe.  Granted, those types rarely get traded unless either they're partying too much, demand a trade, or something similar, but if you have a chance to get that type of player you do it.

 

Do you think we should try for James Neal? All signs seem to point to him being aggressively shopped this summer. Spezza's also an intriguing option, though he's no longer in his prime. Hossa's another old guy who almost certainly won't be bought out or shopped, but I'd expect Holland to kick the tires, as there's the mutual history and respect and he's still a pretty elite player. Kesler would probably cost a king's ransom, but I guess he's also a possibility.

 

Broken record, but I believe there are always options on the trade front, whether it's a top-four defenseman or a 30-goal-scorer in his prime. Maybe not so much with top goalies, but I believe Mrazek is going to be a star anyway.


Don't Toews me, bro!


#1452 DickieDunn

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Posted 19 May 2014 - 04:13 PM

If Neal would stop his diving and cheap shots, I'd give up a lot to get him.  He has 4 more years left on a deal with a very reasonable $5 mil cap hit.  I think he's a d-bag, but the Wings have had plenty of d-bags on the roster.


Oh this young man has had a very trying rookie season, with the litigation, the notoriety, his subsequent deportation to Canada and that country's refusal to accept him, well, I guess that's more than most 21-year-olds can handle... Ogie Ogilthorpe!


#1453 rick zombo

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Posted 19 May 2014 - 04:25 PM

If Neal would stop his diving and cheap shots, I'd give up a lot to get him.  He has 4 more years left on a deal with a very reasonable $5 mil cap hit.  I think he's a d-bag, but the Wings have had plenty of d-bags on the roster.


I have to ask.

Considering who won't be back (Quincey, Bert, Legwand, Sammy, Tootoo) who on the Wings roster is a "d-bag"? And they most certainly don't have any Neal level douchey guys.
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#1454 DickieDunn

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Posted 19 May 2014 - 04:35 PM

I have to ask.

Considering who won't be back (Quincey, Bert, Legwand, Sammy, Tootoo) who on the Wings roster is a "d-bag"? And they most certainly don't have any Neal level douchey guys.

 

Konstantinov was one of the dirtiest players int he NHL.  Shanahan, Chelios, Hull are all big names who had of ice personality issues.  Probert was an alcoholic and drug addict who thought that his status enabled him to do pretty much whatever he wanted when you or I would have been in prison.  There was that story about Tatar blaring loud music among other things at all hours in the condo he was subletting from Helm to the point where the other residents wanted him evicted.


Edited by DickieDunn, 19 May 2014 - 04:36 PM.

Oh this young man has had a very trying rookie season, with the litigation, the notoriety, his subsequent deportation to Canada and that country's refusal to accept him, well, I guess that's more than most 21-year-olds can handle... Ogie Ogilthorpe!


#1455 rick zombo

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Posted 19 May 2014 - 05:42 PM

 

Konstantinov was one of the dirtiest players int he NHL.  Shanahan, Chelios, Hull are all big names who had of ice personality issues.  Probert was an alcoholic and drug addict who thought that his status enabled him to do pretty much whatever he wanted when you or I would have been in prison.  There was that story about Tatar blaring loud music among other things at all hours in the condo he was subletting from Helm to the point where the other residents wanted him evicted.

 

Those guys are all former Wings.

 

Also, Tatar getting a noise complaint is nothing like Neal trying to turn guys noggins into overripe melons with a side of scrambled eggs. Just saying’. 

 

I fuss by now you can tell that I want no part of Neal on the Red Wings. 


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#1456 darkmanx

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Posted 19 May 2014 - 06:09 PM

 

Konstantinov was one of the dirtiest players int he NHL.  Shanahan, Chelios, Hull are all big names who had of ice personality issues.  Probert was an alcoholic and drug addict who thought that his status enabled him to do pretty much whatever he wanted when you or I would have been in prison.  There was that story about Tatar blaring loud music among other things at all hours in the condo he was subletting from Helm to the point where the other residents wanted him evicted.

 

People complain to complain. Where I used to live in an apartment a lady complained because my alarm clock went off at 5AM, and I had to be at work at 6AM.

 

s***, I would have went next door and partied with Tatar if I was them.



#1457 Dabura

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Posted 19 May 2014 - 07:58 PM

I'm assuming Neal would clean up his act. He's only 26. His soul can still be saved.


If Neal would stop his diving and cheap shots, I'd give up a lot to get him.  He has 4 more years left on a deal with a very reasonable $5 mil cap hit.  I think he's a d-bag, but the Wings have had plenty of d-bags on the roster.

 

What do you think it'd cost to get him?


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#1458 dirtydangles

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Posted 19 May 2014 - 08:01 PM

Neal is a very productive player and has the size too. However, we shouldn't be moving assets for wingers when we have an abundance of young wingers and Mantha on the way. We should actually be moving winger(s) for a future top 6 C. We just don't need Neal enough to cough up the assets for him (apparently they want multiple wingers for Crosby and Malkin). I WOULD however like to buy low on Letang if they are selling. Letang is the type of high end RD that we need and could come at a discount due to recent health problems and the need for change in Pitts - perfect storm for us. I don't buy the concern for the future that Letang may suffer more strokes because he will be monitored closely for the rest of his life and his stroke came from a PFO and not a clotting disorder or something genetic. All of his other risk factors for stroke such as cholesterol, lipids, bp, blood sugar etc will be lower than the average person as he is an athlete.  


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#1459 Echolalia

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Posted 19 May 2014 - 08:06 PM

Even ignoring the moral issues behind Neal's behavior, the guy has been suspended what, three times already? He's compromising the team he plays for when he gets suspended, and everyone else is left to pick up the slack while Neal serves his punishment. The Wings have already been struggling to ice bodies without selfish and irresponsible actions taking people off the ice. Then add to that the fact that he's endangering others while he's at it.
He's incredibly talented, but his suspension history is making him unreliable. I think coaches like Babcock would go crazy having to deal with that kind of player.

#1460 Rivalred

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Posted 19 May 2014 - 08:17 PM

Folks are pretty darn high on Mantha and he hsnt even played his first game in the AHL or NHL
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