Would You Trade For Matt Greene's Rights?

[joshy207 156]

Counting the injured players Almquist is their 11th best d. I don't care about his AHL points he'd be destroyed in his own zone in the NHL. Marchenko Ouellet and Sproul are all ahead of him and Jensen has better NHL potential too.

Fair enough, I haven't seen any Griffins games or paid a whole lot of attention to them this year. Pick one, any one...

[Richdg 267]

Break it down by pairs. Kronwall and E and 1 pair. No issues here. Smith is an offensive Dman and a LHed shot. He needs a good stay at home RHed shot to pair with. This is where Greene fits so nicely. He is 30 6-3/230 RHed and from Michigan. getting him for say a 3 year 9 million contract would be great. Dekeyser is a developing LHed all around Dman. he needs a solid RHed partner. Keep Lashoff as the 7th. That leaves Kindl and Almqvist without a home and can be used as trade bait. That is where things get harder. Kindl and Almqvist are not enough for a top pair. We would have to add 1 or 2 more pieces to make it work. The who and how are the key.

[DickieDunn 2,571]

It would be nice to have a couple guys who shoot right but not a necessity. Kronwall Ericsson Dekeyser and maybe Smith should be a decent top 4. Marchenko and Kindl or Lashoff with the other as 7 is a good bottom 3.

[Shinzaki 72]

Sproul and Marchenko are both RH shots...Sproul has a cannon. Marchenko is a steady, puck moving, responsible DMan. Pair him with Smith or keep Smith with Dekeyser and let Marchenko play with Kindl on the third pairing. If Sproul is ready...get what you can for Lashoff and let Kindl and Sproul fight it out for the 6th spot

[Richdg 267]

Sproul and Marchenko are both RH shots...Sproul has a cannon. Marchenko is a steady, puck moving, responsible DMan. Pair him with Smith or keep Smith with Dekeyser and let Marchenko play with Kindl on the third pairing. If Sproul is ready...get what you can for Lashoff and let Kindl and Sproul fight it out for the 6th spot

Yes, but both are first year NA pros. Marchencko is older 22/23 but Sproul is just 20. They need more time to develop. Marchencko didn't even make it through 1 full year-yes the physical NA game does take time to adjust to. They both have 2 more years that they can play in the AHL. Let them.

It would be nice to have a couple guys who shoot right but not a necessity. Kronwall Ericsson Dekeyser and maybe Smith should be a decent top 4. Marchenko and Kindl or Lashoff with the other as 7 is a good bottom 3.

It is a very helpful. RHed Dman can naturally pass quicker and firmer-they don't have to turn and are passing with their fore hand. That gets the puck to the forwards faster and helps our scoring. Balance is always a good thing.

[Dabura 12,207]

The problem with all of this is that we need defensive help now, not in 2 years time.

That's what I'm saying. We shouldn't shy away from immediate gains just because we have quality kids on the farm. I don't necessarily think we should trade Kindl or Lashoff, I was just saying that's always an option if we're worried about a logjam or whatever.

What do you propose Holland does with Quincey then? He's a UFA, they either have to sign him or let him walk. I highly doubt he'll take a paycut or anything less than a multi-year deal (3-4 years)...

QuinC sux. True, he's improved, but he's playing for a contract.

Even if he'd be willing to take a pay cut and play severely reduced minutes, the pairings look problematic. I'd want Kronwall and Ericsson as the first pairing, DeKeyser and ? as the second, and Smith and ?₂ as the third. So, if we re-sign Quincey, he slots in right where he currently is (next to DeKeyser, on the second pairing) or - oh gawd - next to Smith. I guess Kronwall-DeKeyser / Ericsson-Smith / Quincey-? is a possibility, but...meh. (I'm not even considering bumping Ericsson down to the third pairing or putting him with DeKeyser.)

[Dabura 12,207]

I'd rather keep Kindl and hope he finally puts things together than sign any of those old farts.

And that is why you work for the Oilers.

[nawein 324]

I'd trade Quincey's rights for Greene's rights just to feel like we got something for Q. Beyond that though, no. And I hope we don't sign him. I could see us going after a guy like Willie Mitchell though to anchor the third pair.

[DickieDunn 2,571]

And that is why you work for the Oilers.

I don't think that any of those older guys are the answer, even in the short term. Boyle's play dropped off significantly this year, I've never been impressed with Zidlicky or Morris, and Timmonen is a small, 39-year-old left handed shooter. I don't want anyone over the age of 35 signed, period. Niskanen and maybe Gilbert on a shorter term deal are the only 2 I'd be really interested in, and I doubt Niskanen makes it to free agency. With Sproul, Ouellet, and Marchenko, plus the lower tier prospects coming and Kronwall, Ericsson, and Dekeyser not going anywhere, and Smith finally settling down and still having upside they don't need to go out and do a lot defensively.

Edited April 18, 2014 by DickieDunn

[wingedominance13 112]

I agree with Dickie, I do think a one year older vet, kindof like the Huskins/Commodore/Lilja mold, one who could be sent to the minors, wouldn't be a bad signing. That way if we call the kids up and they regress or wings get hit hard on D with injuries then there is at least some experience on the roster. So if that is Matt Greene then sweet, but I doubt he would want a one year deal.

[Shinzaki 72]

I don't really care if Sproul and Oulett are 21 and 20...if they can play at the NHL level, they should be here...if they need more time in GR, that's fine, but if Babcock and his staff think they're a better option than Kindl and Lashoff, bring them up and roll them out there. I think Marchenko..assuming his ankle is 100% is absolutely ready now and I would rather bring him up than overpay to keep Quincy..which given the thin FA market for Dmen is something we'd likely have to do.

BTW..I'm not a Quincey hater, I think he's been a decent 2nd/3rd pairing guy for much of his time here. I don't think the trade that brought him here was a bad one, yeah we gave up a number one for him, but we got a couple of years of play from a top 6 Dman . That's not a bad return. I just don't think Quincey is worth the $5 mil or so someone else will throw at him.

[Dabura 12,207]

I don't think that any of those older guys are the answer, even in the short term. Boyle's play dropped off significantly this year, I've never been impressed with Zidlicky or Morris, and Timmonen is a small, 39-year-old left handed shooter. I don't want anyone over the age of 35 signed, period. Niskanen and maybe Gilbert on a shorter term deal are the only 2 I'd be really interested in, and I doubt Niskanen makes it to free agency. With Sproul, Ouellet, and Marchenko, plus the lower tier prospects coming and Kronwall, Ericsson, and Dekeyser not going anywhere, and Smith finally settling down and still having upside they don't need to go out and do a lot defensively.

For me, it's really simple: I don't like our top four. Kronwall-Ericsson / DeKeyser-Smith = blah. Why roll with that, especially given our annual injury woes? If we can add Dan Boyle for a deal that makes sense (incredibly unlikely), I'm kinda thinking we should pull that trigger. Doesn't have to be Dan Boyle, of course, but you get what I'm saying. I don't want to just kind of float through Datsyuk's remaining years of service. I'd like to see us make an honest push for actual Cup contention within the next few years, rather than saying, "Well, Sproul and Ouellet and Marchenko are coming, and once they're here, WE SHALL BE INVINCIBLE. Maybe. I think." The kids are the future, and the future is just about here (talking about the blue line, not the forward corps), but I'm having trouble getting behind this whole wait-and-see-and-assume-the-best thing.

If we're gonna free up considerable cap space this summer, and if we're pretty sure we won't really be looking to bring in any new big-money top-sixers, and if Quincey's gone and Kindl and Lashoff aren't essential and Almqvist is probably getting moved, and if our D corps is far and away our biggest area of concern...then I'm pretty sure we could do worse than adding a veteran top-four defenseman.

"But this veteran guy is so old!"

And this kid guy is so young.

This is all kind of silly. We're splitting hairs.

I don't really care if Sproul and Oulett are 21 and 20...if they can play at the NHL level, they should be here...if they need more time in GR, that's fine, but if Babcock and his staff think they're a better option than Kindl and Lashoff, bring them up and roll them out there. I think Marchenko..assuming his ankle is 100% is absolutely ready now and I would rather bring him up than overpay to keep Quincy..which given the thin FA market for Dmen is something we'd likely have to do.

My point about Sproul and Ouellet being so young was simply that there's no rush. It's not like Nyquist where he's 24 and has absolutely nothing left to prove in the minors and he could be playing top-six minutes for us but instead we're going with Cleary. I get that everyone wants as many kids as we can possibly fit. But Sproul, Ouellet, Marchenko - we're very likely talking about sheltered third-pairing minutes (if that) next season. Which is fine, as long as we're not 1) counting on them being the difference between beating Boston in the first round and losing to Boston in the first round, and 2) saying NOPE. WE CAN'T SIGN ANY UFAs. NO TRADES EITHER. WE'VE GOT THESE KIDS AND THEY WILL DO JUST FINE BECAUSE THEY'RE KIDS. WE NEED MOAR KIDS. ADAM ALMQVIST? IS HE A KID? GET HIM ON THE ROSTER SO I CAN SHOOT HIM INTO MY VEINS.

I want another Cup with Z and D. A Dan Boyle could really help that cause next season. I don't get the life-or-death we-need-ryan-sproul-and-we-need-him-now movement. I get the we-need-an-elite-defenseman-and-we-need-him-now mindset.

[DickieDunn 2,571]

Look at the list of UFA d-men. It's bad. Like, waking up between Rosie O'Donnell and a 65 year old hooker bad. There are 14 pending UFAs who average more than 20 minutes a night, so play a top 4 role. 7 of them are 35 or older. Hainsey, Quincey, Orpik, Gilbert, Niskanen, Butler, and Benoit are the younger guys. I doubt Niskanen will hit the market. I don't think Orpik would either. Gilbert would be a fit if he's willing to sign short term, but I'd imagine he's going to be looking for 4 or 5 years and will get it. Of the older guys, I wouldn't be surprised if Markov went back to the KHL for a couple years before retirement. Boyle is slipping. Zidlicky doesn't impress me at all. Timmonen is 39 and doesn't really bring the dimensions the Wings lack. Mitchell is probably better suited as a 3rd pairing guy. The Wings could have signed Robidas last year and had no interest. I don't think an injury plagued season is going to change that.

If they go outside to upgrade the D, it will likely be through a trade.

[Shinzaki 72]

I don't think sgning any of the UFA's makes sense because you're going to have to...more than likely...pay more for them than they're worth. I don't think it makes any more sense to dismiss players as "kids" than it does to just hand them a job. That said... I'd much rather go into camp looking at Marchenko taking a spot on the 3rd pairing than paying Quincey or his 37 year old equivalent 5 million a year to deliver similar results. I'd much rather give Oulett or Sproul a shot at regular minutes than Brian Lashoff. Lashoff is what he is..an extra Dman. Kindl? I don't know what to think about him.

If a trade opens up for a top pairing Dman..great. I think the bidding starts with Anthony Mantha, another young forward like Tatar and maybe a draft pick. I don't see KH throwing those kinds of assets around when they have Dmen in the system that they think can mature into top 4 guys in the next couple of years

[DSM 114]

Dan Boyle

Marek Zidlicky

Kimmo Timonen

Derek Morris

I wouldn't mind if Holland added one of those four this summer. Rather than overpay longterm for someone like Niskanen, they could get one of those guys for 1-2 years which will leave some flexibility for Ouellet/Sproul/Marchenko as they get closer to loser waiver exemption. Zidlicky and Boyle would give them a proven RH PP quarterback and give the team a Dman that could post 35+ points not named Niklas Kronwall.

----------------

As for getting Matt Greene's rights, I don't see the need. Obviously it would only cost a conditional late round pick that LA would get if he signs here, but if Holland really wanted him it probably wouldn't be difficult to swing after July 1st.

However, while Greene Michigan native physical RH Dman, he isn't exactly what the Red Wings need. The Red Wings need a RH shot that can quarterback a powerplay, which Greene doesn't do. He's also slow, and has struggled with injuries playing in only 43 regular season games over the last two seasons. He was also a healthy scratch for 16 of LA's 23 games after the Olympic break and wasn't in LA's opening lineup for the playoffs.

If/when he's healthy, he'd be a #5-7 guy for the Wings. That still leaves the #4 spot as a revolving door if Smith and/or Kindl struggle next season.

[DSM 114]

Look at the list of UFA d-men. It's bad. Like, waking up between Rosie O'Donnell and a 65 year old hooker bad. There are 14 pending UFAs who average more than 20 minutes a night, so play a top 4 role. 7 of them are 35 or older. Hainsey, Quincey, Orpik, Gilbert, Niskanen, Butler, and Benoit are the younger guys. I doubt Niskanen will hit the market. I don't think Orpik would either. Gilbert would be a fit if he's willing to sign short term, but I'd imagine he's going to be looking for 4 or 5 years and will get it. Of the older guys, I wouldn't be surprised if Markov went back to the KHL for a couple years before retirement. Boyle is slipping. Zidlicky doesn't impress me at all. Timmonen is 39 and doesn't really bring the dimensions the Wings lack. Mitchell is probably better suited as a 3rd pairing guy. The Wings could have signed Robidas last year and had no interest. I don't think an injury plagued season is going to change that.

If they go outside to upgrade the D, it will likely be through a trade.

I wouldn't be so sure about that for atleast two reasons:

-#1. Niskanen is arguably the most valuable Dman destined for UFA status. MacDonald was a close 2nd or possibly 1B. After MacDonald signed his extension with Philly, I'm sure Niskanens agent has made him well aware what could be thrown at him on the open market.

-#2. Already tight at the cap and with Letangs raise kicking in, the Pens have just shy of $16M in cap space to fill seven roster spots. That includes Niskanen and Orpik's spots on the blueline as well as atleast one top-6 forward. They may have to choose between one of them to fill their needs.

[DickieDunn 2,571]

I wouldn't be so sure about that for atleast two reasons:

-#1. Niskanen is arguably the most valuable Dman destined for UFA status. MacDonald was a close 2nd or possibly 1B. After MacDonald signed his extension with Philly, I'm sure Niskanens agent has made him well aware what could be thrown at him on the open market.

-#2. Already tight at the cap and with Letangs raise kicking in, the Pens have just shy of $16M in cap space to fill seven roster spots. That includes Niskanen and Orpik's spots on the blueline as well as atleast one top-6 forward. They may have to choose between one of them to fill their needs.

This is true. I think Niskanen will get paid though, and if it's not by the Pens he's going to get BIG money on the market, far more than he's probably worth, and more than the Wings need to pay any D-man.

[DSM 114]

Break it down by pairs. Kronwall and E and 1 pair. No issues here. Smith is an offensive Dman and a LHed shot. He needs a good stay at home RHed shot to pair with. This is where Greene fits so nicely. He is 30 6-3/230 RHed and from Michigan. getting him for say a 3 year 9 million contract would be great. Dekeyser is a developing LHed all around Dman. he needs a solid RHed partner. Keep Lashoff as the 7th. That leaves Kindl and Almqvist without a home and can be used as trade bait. That is where things get harder. Kindl and Almqvist are not enough for a top pair. We would have to add 1 or 2 more pieces to make it work. The who and how are the key.

I have to kindly disagree with this... Holland would have to be completely inebriated to give that contract to a guy that has been severely limited by injuries recently, a healthy scratch for 20 games and pretty much his teams Bryan Lashoff (on the depth chart) when healthy this season. Matt Greene of 2012? Absolutely. All I would offer Matt Greene of 2014 is a prorated version of Mike Commodores last NHL contract. Somewhere in the neighborhood of $1M for a year. If he can stay healthy and/or stay in the line-up, then we can discuss a raise/extension.

In reality, Brooks Orpik could probably be had for close to that contract. He's a better, faster and MUCH more durable version of Matt Greene, while only three years older.

[DSM 114]

This is true. I think Niskanen will get paid though, and if it's not by the Pens he's going to get BIG money on the market, far more than he's probably worth, and more than the Wings need to pay any D-man.

I agree. I think if he continues on the level he's been on this season, he'd be a great fit with the Wings. However, I don't think he'd deserve to make more than Kronwall on this team considering it's probably going to take a long term deal at over $5mil/year to get him.

On the other side of the coin, I do think there might also be a slight risk factor with signing him long term for big money. Up until this season he was pretty mediocre for the Penguins, and fell of the wagon after a couple of decent seasons in Dallas.

Question is... How much of his "break out" this season had to do with the multiple long term absences of Martin, Letang and Scuderi? Might Quincey or Kindl put up similar point and +/- totals if they are skating in front of a couple of .91+ SV% goalies, and are one of the teams only qualified options to skate behind and feed pucks to Crosbalkin and Co.?

[joshy207 156]

I think we're better off auditioning what we have and keeping an eye on the waiver wire and trade market. Some team is always looking to move a player who's being replaced by someone younger and cheaper.

[DSM 114]

^While I'm sure Sproul, Ouellet or Marchenko would probably be able to fill able to fill a 3rd pairing role for the big club, I can't see Ken Holland doing this.

With cap space to burn, history tells me that Kenny will likely either re-sign Quincey or bring in a UFA Dman that he thinks will help the team.

Almquist is another story. If you simply delete Quincey and add Amquist, the Wings "defensive" struggles from this season don't get any better. They lose a player who as of late has been one of their better "defensive" Dmen, and add one who won't add the same dimension.

I think the real question should be, when does Lashoff becomes expendable? His ceiling is pretty much a #6/7 guy. It's probably a safe assumption that in a more perfect season (less injuries, Kindl plays the way he did to justify a $2.4M cap hit, and Smith has less growing pains), Lashoff would've spent a large chunk of 13/14 as a healthy scratch.

Which brings me to Almquist... If the Red Wings go into training camp with an established top-6 (likely Kronwall, Ericsson, DeKeyser, Quincey/UFA, Smith and Kindl) and Amquist adds some strength in the offseason, would a strong camp and preseason make the team consider giving him the #7 spot instead over Lashoff? I have to think that if Almquist shows that he can still develop into a puck moving top-4 guy, it wouldn't be worth losing him over a guy that is pretty much Derek Meech v2.0.

With an impressive AHL resume, I can't see how Almquist would clear waivers next season. However, his lack of an NHL resume likely means he won't net more than a late round pick if they try to trade him.

Logic tells me that with three Dmen that are likely to be NHL regulars within the next couple seasons able to go up and down from GR, his easily buried cap hit and low upside, Lashoff has to have the same kind of expendability that Cory Emmerton has had the past three seasons.

I guess time will tell.

[DSM 114]

For the record, Greene was inserted into LA's lineup Las night and was -4 in 13:23 of ice time...

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

For the record, Greene was inserted into LA's lineup Las night and was -4 in 13:23 of ice time...

I didn't see the game so can't speak to specifics, but the Kings got shelled in the game without Greene as well. I don't know that he's what's going wrong with LA right now.

That being said, my main concerns with acquiring Greene though would be his health and his lack of footspeed.

[DSM 114]

I didn't see the game so can't speak to specifics, but the Kings got shelled in the game without Greene as well. I don't know that he's what's going wrong with LA right now.

That being said, my main concerns with acquiring Greene though would be his health and his lack of footspeed.

I agree with both.

I fell asleep during the 1st intermission of the game, and while looking at some stats from it I remembered this thread.

FWIW, he was also sent to the box for a roughing minor to give the Sharks the PP that Thornton scored their 7th goal on.

[cnot19 191]

I agree with both.

I fell asleep during the 1st intermission of the game, and while looking at some stats from it I remembered this thread.

FWIW, he was also sent to the box for a roughing minor to give the Sharks the PP that Thornton scored their 7th goal on.

Just fyi That penalty wash't really his it should have been assessed to WIllie Mitchell.