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Would You Trade For Matt Greene's Rights?


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#21 DickieDunn

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Posted 17 April 2014 - 05:00 PM

I'd rather keep Kindl and hope he finally puts things together than sign any of those old farts.


Oh this young man has had a very trying rookie season, with the litigation, the notoriety, his subsequent deportation to Canada and that country's refusal to accept him, well, I guess that's more than most 21-year-olds can handle... Ogie Ogilthorpe!


#22 joshy207

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Posted 17 April 2014 - 05:53 PM

What do you propose Holland does with Quincey then?  He's a UFA, they either have to sign him or let him walk.  I highly doubt he'll take a paycut or anything less than a multi-year deal (3-4 years)...



#23 DickieDunn

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Posted 17 April 2014 - 06:09 PM

Let him walk and call up a rookie. Kindl and Lashoff can fight for the 6 spot or make a trade.

Oh this young man has had a very trying rookie season, with the litigation, the notoriety, his subsequent deportation to Canada and that country's refusal to accept him, well, I guess that's more than most 21-year-olds can handle... Ogie Ogilthorpe!


#24 joshy207

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Posted 17 April 2014 - 06:13 PM

That was supposed to have been a quoted response for Dabura.  I'm with you, Dickie, I'd let Quincey walk, pencil Almquist in the 7th spot, and explore the trade market using Kindl as part of a package for an upgrade.



#25 DickieDunn

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Posted 17 April 2014 - 07:22 PM

That was supposed to have been a quoted response for Dabura.  I'm with you, Dickie, I'd let Quincey walk, pencil Almquist in the 7th spot, and explore the trade market using Kindl as part of a package for an upgrade.

Counting the injured players Almquist is their 11th best d. I don't care about his AHL points he'd be destroyed in his own zone in the NHL. Marchenko Ouellet and Sproul are all ahead of him and Jensen has better NHL potential too.

Oh this young man has had a very trying rookie season, with the litigation, the notoriety, his subsequent deportation to Canada and that country's refusal to accept him, well, I guess that's more than most 21-year-olds can handle... Ogie Ogilthorpe!


#26 joshy207

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Posted 17 April 2014 - 07:36 PM

Counting the injured players Almquist is their 11th best d. I don't care about his AHL points he'd be destroyed in his own zone in the NHL. Marchenko Ouellet and Sproul are all ahead of him and Jensen has better NHL potential too.

 

Fair enough, I haven't seen any Griffins games or paid a whole lot of attention to them this year.  Pick one, any one...



#27 Richdg

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Posted 17 April 2014 - 08:09 PM

Break it down by pairs. Kronwall and E and 1 pair. No issues here. Smith is an offensive Dman and a LHed shot. He needs a good stay at home RHed shot to pair with. This is where Greene fits so nicely. He is 30 6-3/230 RHed and from Michigan. getting him for say a 3 year 9 million contract would be great. Dekeyser is a developing LHed all around Dman. he needs a solid RHed partner. Keep Lashoff as the 7th. That leaves Kindl and Almqvist without a home and can be used as trade bait. That is where things get harder. Kindl and Almqvist are not enough for a top pair. We would have to add 1 or 2 more pieces to make it work. The who and how are the key. 



#28 DickieDunn

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Posted 17 April 2014 - 09:17 PM

It would be nice to have a couple guys who shoot right but not a necessity. Kronwall Ericsson Dekeyser and maybe Smith should be a decent top 4. Marchenko and Kindl or Lashoff with the other as 7 is a good bottom 3.

Oh this young man has had a very trying rookie season, with the litigation, the notoriety, his subsequent deportation to Canada and that country's refusal to accept him, well, I guess that's more than most 21-year-olds can handle... Ogie Ogilthorpe!


#29 Shinzaki

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Posted 18 April 2014 - 06:53 AM

Sproul and Marchenko are both RH shots...Sproul has a cannon.  Marchenko is a steady, puck  moving, responsible DMan. Pair him with Smith or keep Smith with Dekeyser and let Marchenko play with Kindl on the third pairing.   If Sproul is ready...get what you can for Lashoff and let Kindl and Sproul fight it out for the 6th spot 



#30 Richdg

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Posted 18 April 2014 - 08:15 AM

Sproul and Marchenko are both RH shots...Sproul has a cannon.  Marchenko is a steady, puck  moving, responsible DMan. Pair him with Smith or keep Smith with Dekeyser and let Marchenko play with Kindl on the third pairing.   If Sproul is ready...get what you can for Lashoff and let Kindl and Sproul fight it out for the 6th spot 

Yes, but both are first year NA pros. Marchencko is older 22/23 but Sproul is just 20. They need more time to develop. Marchencko didn't even make it through 1 full year-yes the physical NA game does take time to adjust to. They both have 2 more years that they can play in the AHL. Let them.


It would be nice to have a couple guys who shoot right but not a necessity. Kronwall Ericsson Dekeyser and maybe Smith should be a decent top 4. Marchenko and Kindl or Lashoff with the other as 7 is a good bottom 3.

It is a very helpful. RHed Dman can naturally pass quicker and firmer-they don't have to turn and are passing with their fore hand. That gets the puck to the forwards faster and helps our scoring. Balance is always a good thing.



#31 Dabura

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Posted 18 April 2014 - 08:46 AM

The problem with all of this is that we need defensive help now, not in 2 years time.

 

That's what I'm saying. We shouldn't shy away from immediate gains just because we have quality kids on the farm. I don't necessarily think we should trade Kindl or Lashoff, I was just saying that's always an option if we're worried about a logjam or whatever.

 

What do you propose Holland does with Quincey then?  He's a UFA, they either have to sign him or let him walk.  I highly doubt he'll take a paycut or anything less than a multi-year deal (3-4 years)...

 

QuinC sux. True, he's improved, but he's playing for a contract.

 

Even if he'd be willing to take a pay cut and play severely reduced minutes, the pairings look problematic. I'd want Kronwall and Ericsson as the first pairing, DeKeyser and ? as the second, and Smith and ?2 as the third. So, if we re-sign Quincey, he slots in right where he currently is (next to DeKeyser, on the second pairing) or - oh gawd - next to Smith. I guess Kronwall-DeKeyser / Ericsson-Smith / Quincey-? is a possibility, but...meh. (I'm not even considering bumping Ericsson down to the third pairing or putting him with DeKeyser.)


Don't Toews me, bro!


#32 Dabura

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Posted 18 April 2014 - 08:58 AM

I'd rather keep Kindl and hope he finally puts things together than sign any of those old farts.

 

And that is why you work for the Oilers.


Don't Toews me, bro!


#33 nawein

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Posted 18 April 2014 - 09:30 AM

I'd trade Quincey's rights for Greene's rights just to feel like we got something for Q. Beyond that though, no. And I hope we don't sign him. I could see us going after a guy like Willie Mitchell though to anchor the third pair.

#34 DickieDunn

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Posted 18 April 2014 - 09:50 AM

 

And that is why you work for the Oilers.

 

I don't think that any of those older guys are the answer, even in the short term.  Boyle's play dropped off significantly this year, I've never been impressed with Zidlicky or Morris, and Timmonen is a small, 39-year-old left handed shooter.  I don't want anyone over the age of 35 signed, period.  Niskanen and maybe Gilbert on a shorter term deal are the only 2 I'd be really interested in, and I doubt Niskanen makes it to free agency.  With Sproul, Ouellet, and Marchenko, plus the lower tier prospects coming and Kronwall, Ericsson, and Dekeyser not going anywhere, and Smith finally settling down and still having upside they don't need to go out and do a lot defensively.


Edited by DickieDunn, 18 April 2014 - 09:50 AM.

Oh this young man has had a very trying rookie season, with the litigation, the notoriety, his subsequent deportation to Canada and that country's refusal to accept him, well, I guess that's more than most 21-year-olds can handle... Ogie Ogilthorpe!


#35 wingedominance13

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Posted 18 April 2014 - 10:15 AM

I agree with Dickie, I do think a one year older vet, kindof like the Huskins/Commodore/Lilja mold, one who could be sent to the minors, wouldn't be a bad signing. That way if we call the kids up and they regress or wings get hit hard on D with injuries then there is at least some experience on the roster. So if that is Matt Greene then sweet, but I doubt he would want a one year deal. 



#36 Shinzaki

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Posted 18 April 2014 - 10:32 AM

I don't really care if Sproul and Oulett are 21 and 20...if they can play at the NHL level, they should be here...if they need more time in GR, that's fine, but if  Babcock and his staff think they're a better option than Kindl and Lashoff, bring them up and roll them out there.  I think Marchenko..assuming his ankle is 100%  is absolutely ready now and I would rather bring him up than overpay to keep Quincy..which given the thin FA market for Dmen is something we'd likely have to do.

 

BTW..I'm not a Quincey hater, I think he's been a decent 2nd/3rd pairing guy for much of his time here. I don't think the trade that brought him here was  a bad one, yeah we gave up a number one for him, but we got a couple of years of play from a top 6 Dman .  That's not a bad return.  I just don't think Quincey is worth the $5 mil or so someone else will throw at him.



#37 Dabura

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Posted 18 April 2014 - 01:22 PM

I don't think that any of those older guys are the answer, even in the short term.  Boyle's play dropped off significantly this year, I've never been impressed with Zidlicky or Morris, and Timmonen is a small, 39-year-old left handed shooter.  I don't want anyone over the age of 35 signed, period.  Niskanen and maybe Gilbert on a shorter term deal are the only 2 I'd be really interested in, and I doubt Niskanen makes it to free agency.  With Sproul, Ouellet, and Marchenko, plus the lower tier prospects coming and Kronwall, Ericsson, and Dekeyser not going anywhere, and Smith finally settling down and still having upside they don't need to go out and do a lot defensively.

 

For me, it's really simple: I don't like our top four. Kronwall-Ericsson / DeKeyser-Smith = blah. Why roll with that, especially given our annual injury woes? If we can add Dan Boyle for a deal that makes sense (incredibly unlikely), I'm kinda thinking we should pull that trigger. Doesn't have to be Dan Boyle, of course, but you get what I'm saying. I don't want to just kind of float through Datsyuk's remaining years of service. I'd like to see us make an honest push for actual Cup contention within the next few years, rather than saying, "Well, Sproul and Ouellet and Marchenko are coming, and once they're here, WE SHALL BE INVINCIBLE. Maybe. I think." The kids are the future, and the future is just about here (talking about the blue line, not the forward corps), but I'm having trouble getting behind this whole wait-and-see-and-assume-the-best thing.

 

If we're gonna free up considerable cap space this summer, and if we're pretty sure we won't really be looking to bring in any new big-money top-sixers, and if Quincey's gone and Kindl and Lashoff aren't essential and Almqvist is probably getting moved, and if our D corps is far and away our biggest area of concern...then I'm pretty sure we could do worse than adding a veteran top-four defenseman.

 

"But this veteran guy is so old!"

 

And this kid guy is so young.

 

This is all kind of silly. We're splitting hairs.

 

I don't really care if Sproul and Oulett are 21 and 20...if they can play at the NHL level, they should be here...if they need more time in GR, that's fine, but if  Babcock and his staff think they're a better option than Kindl and Lashoff, bring them up and roll them out there.  I think Marchenko..assuming his ankle is 100%  is absolutely ready now and I would rather bring him up than overpay to keep Quincy..which given the thin FA market for Dmen is something we'd likely have to do.

 

My point about Sproul and Ouellet being so young was simply that there's no rush. It's not like Nyquist where he's 24 and has absolutely nothing left to prove in the minors and he could be playing top-six minutes for us but instead we're going with Cleary. I get that everyone wants as many kids as we can possibly fit. But Sproul, Ouellet, Marchenko - we're very likely talking about sheltered third-pairing minutes (if that) next season. Which is fine, as long as we're not 1) counting on them being the difference between beating Boston in the first round and losing to Boston in the first round, and 2) saying NOPE. WE CAN'T SIGN ANY UFAs. NO TRADES EITHER. WE'VE GOT THESE KIDS AND THEY WILL DO JUST FINE BECAUSE THEY'RE KIDS. WE NEED MOAR KIDS. ADAM ALMQVIST? IS HE A KID? GET HIM ON THE ROSTER SO I CAN SHOOT HIM INTO MY VEINS.

 

I want another Cup with Z and D. A Dan Boyle could really help that cause next season. I don't get the life-or-death we-need-ryan-sproul-and-we-need-him-now movement. I get the we-need-an-elite-defenseman-and-we-need-him-now mindset.


Don't Toews me, bro!


#38 DickieDunn

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Posted 18 April 2014 - 01:33 PM

Look at the list of UFA d-men.  It's bad.  Like, waking up between Rosie O'Donnell and a 65 year old hooker bad.  There are 14 pending UFAs who average more than 20 minutes a night, so play a top 4 role.  7 of them are 35 or older.  Hainsey, Quincey, Orpik, Gilbert, Niskanen, Butler, and Benoit are the younger guys.  I doubt Niskanen will hit the market.  I don't think Orpik would either.  Gilbert would be a fit if he's willing to sign short term, but I'd imagine he's going to be looking for 4 or 5 years and will get it.  Of the older guys, I wouldn't be surprised if Markov went back to the KHL for a couple years before retirement.  Boyle is slipping.  Zidlicky doesn't impress me at all.  Timmonen is 39 and doesn't really bring the dimensions the Wings lack.  Mitchell is probably better suited as a 3rd pairing guy.  The Wings could have signed Robidas last year and had no interest.  I don't think an injury plagued season is going to change that.

 

If they go outside to upgrade the D, it will likely be through a trade.


Oh this young man has had a very trying rookie season, with the litigation, the notoriety, his subsequent deportation to Canada and that country's refusal to accept him, well, I guess that's more than most 21-year-olds can handle... Ogie Ogilthorpe!


#39 Shinzaki

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Posted 18 April 2014 - 02:08 PM

I don't think sgning any of the UFA's makes sense because you're going to have to...more than likely...pay more for them than they're worth.  I don't think it makes any more  sense to dismiss players as "kids" than it does to just hand them a job.  That said... I'd much rather go into camp looking at Marchenko taking a spot on the 3rd pairing than paying Quincey or his 37 year old equivalent 5 million a year to deliver similar results.   I'd much rather give Oulett  or Sproul a shot at regular minutes than Brian Lashoff.  Lashoff is what he is..an extra Dman.   Kindl?   I don't know what to think about him. 

 

If a trade opens up for a top pairing Dman..great.  I think the bidding starts with Anthony Mantha, another young forward like Tatar and maybe a draft pick.    I don't see KH throwing those kinds of assets around when they have Dmen in the system that they think can mature into top 4 guys in the next couple of years



#40 DSM

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Posted 18 April 2014 - 02:32 PM

 

Dan Boyle


Marek Zidlicky

 

Kimmo Timonen

 

Derek Morris

 

I wouldn't mind if Holland added one of those four this summer. Rather than overpay longterm for someone like Niskanen, they could get one of those guys for 1-2 years which will leave some flexibility for Ouellet/Sproul/Marchenko as they get closer to loser waiver exemption. Zidlicky and Boyle would give them a proven RH PP quarterback and give the team a Dman that could post 35+ points not named Niklas Kronwall.

 

----------------

 

As for getting Matt Greene's rights, I don't see the need. Obviously it would only cost a conditional late round pick that LA would get if he signs here, but if Holland really wanted him it probably wouldn't be difficult to swing after July 1st.

 

However, while Greene Michigan native physical RH Dman, he isn't exactly what the Red Wings need. The Red Wings need a RH shot that can quarterback a powerplay, which Greene doesn't do. He's also slow, and has struggled with injuries playing in only 43 regular season games over the last two seasons. He was also a healthy scratch for 16 of LA's 23 games after the Olympic break and wasn't in LA's opening lineup for the playoffs.

 

If/when he's healthy, he'd be a #5-7 guy for the Wings. That still leaves the #4 spot as a revolving door if Smith and/or Kindl struggle next season.







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