Jump to content


Photo
- - - - -

Would You Trade For Matt Greene's Rights?


  • Please log in to reply
52 replies to this topic

#41 DSM

DSM

    2nd Line Scorer

  • Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 650 posts

Posted 18 April 2014 - 02:54 PM

Look at the list of UFA d-men.  It's bad.  Like, waking up between Rosie O'Donnell and a 65 year old hooker bad.  There are 14 pending UFAs who average more than 20 minutes a night, so play a top 4 role.  7 of them are 35 or older.  Hainsey, Quincey, Orpik, Gilbert, Niskanen, Butler, and Benoit are the younger guys.  I doubt Niskanen will hit the market.  I don't think Orpik would either.  Gilbert would be a fit if he's willing to sign short term, but I'd imagine he's going to be looking for 4 or 5 years and will get it.  Of the older guys, I wouldn't be surprised if Markov went back to the KHL for a couple years before retirement.  Boyle is slipping.  Zidlicky doesn't impress me at all.  Timmonen is 39 and doesn't really bring the dimensions the Wings lack.  Mitchell is probably better suited as a 3rd pairing guy.  The Wings could have signed Robidas last year and had no interest.  I don't think an injury plagued season is going to change that.

 

If they go outside to upgrade the D, it will likely be through a trade.

 

I wouldn't be so sure about that for atleast two reasons:

-#1. Niskanen is arguably the most valuable Dman destined for UFA status. MacDonald was a close 2nd or possibly 1B. After MacDonald signed his extension with Philly, I'm sure Niskanens agent has made him well aware what could be thrown at him on the open market.

-#2. Already tight at the cap and with Letangs raise kicking in, the Pens have just shy of $16M in cap space to fill seven roster spots. That includes Niskanen and Orpik's spots on the blueline as well as atleast one top-6 forward. They may have to choose between one of them to fill their needs.



#42 DickieDunn

DickieDunn

    http://redwingsandotherthings.wordpress.com/

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,416 posts
  • Location:Belding

Posted 18 April 2014 - 03:10 PM

 

I wouldn't be so sure about that for atleast two reasons:

-#1. Niskanen is arguably the most valuable Dman destined for UFA status. MacDonald was a close 2nd or possibly 1B. After MacDonald signed his extension with Philly, I'm sure Niskanens agent has made him well aware what could be thrown at him on the open market.

-#2. Already tight at the cap and with Letangs raise kicking in, the Pens have just shy of $16M in cap space to fill seven roster spots. That includes Niskanen and Orpik's spots on the blueline as well as atleast one top-6 forward. They may have to choose between one of them to fill their needs.

 

This is true.  I think Niskanen will get paid though, and if it's not by the Pens he's going to get BIG money on the market, far more than he's probably worth, and more than the Wings need to pay any D-man.


  • DSM likes this

Oh this young man has had a very trying rookie season, with the litigation, the notoriety, his subsequent deportation to Canada and that country's refusal to accept him, well, I guess that's more than most 21-year-olds can handle... Ogie Ogilthorpe!


#43 DSM

DSM

    2nd Line Scorer

  • Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 650 posts

Posted 18 April 2014 - 03:22 PM

Break it down by pairs. Kronwall and E and 1 pair. No issues here. Smith is an offensive Dman and a LHed shot. He needs a good stay at home RHed shot to pair with. This is where Greene fits so nicely. He is 30 6-3/230 RHed and from Michigan. getting him for say a 3 year 9 million contract would be great. Dekeyser is a developing LHed all around Dman. he needs a solid RHed partner. Keep Lashoff as the 7th. That leaves Kindl and Almqvist without a home and can be used as trade bait. That is where things get harder. Kindl and Almqvist are not enough for a top pair. We would have to add 1 or 2 more pieces to make it work. The who and how are the key. 

 

I have to kindly disagree with this... Holland would have to be completely inebriated to give that contract to a guy that has been severely limited by injuries recently, a healthy scratch for 20 games and pretty much his teams Bryan Lashoff (on the depth chart) when healthy this season. Matt Greene of 2012? Absolutely. All I would offer Matt Greene of 2014 is a prorated version of Mike Commodores last NHL contract. Somewhere in the neighborhood of $1M for a year. If he can stay healthy and/or stay in the line-up, then we can discuss a raise/extension.

 

In reality, Brooks Orpik could probably be had for close to that contract. He's a better, faster and MUCH more durable version of Matt Greene, while only three years older.



#44 DSM

DSM

    2nd Line Scorer

  • Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 650 posts

Posted 18 April 2014 - 03:48 PM

 

This is true.  I think Niskanen will get paid though, and if it's not by the Pens he's going to get BIG money on the market, far more than he's probably worth, and more than the Wings need to pay any D-man.

 

I agree. I think if he continues on the level he's been on this season, he'd be a great fit with the Wings. However, I don't think he'd deserve to make more than Kronwall on this team considering it's probably going to take a long term deal at over $5mil/year to get him.

 

On the other side of the coin, I do think there might also be a slight risk factor with signing him long term for big money. Up until this season he was pretty mediocre for the Penguins, and fell of the wagon after a couple of decent seasons in Dallas.

 

Question is... How much of his "break out" this season had to do with the multiple long term absences of Martin, Letang and Scuderi? Might Quincey or Kindl put up similar point and +/- totals if they are skating in front of a couple of .91+ SV% goalies, and are one of the teams only qualified options to skate behind and feed pucks to Crosbalkin and Co.?



#45 joshy207

joshy207

    Black Ace

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,446 posts
  • Location:Berkley, MI

Posted 18 April 2014 - 03:49 PM

I think we're better off auditioning what we have and keeping an eye on the waiver wire and trade market.  Some team is always looking to move a player who's being replaced by someone younger and cheaper.



#46 DSM

DSM

    2nd Line Scorer

  • Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 650 posts

Posted 18 April 2014 - 06:05 PM

^While I'm sure Sproul, Ouellet or Marchenko would probably be able to fill able to fill a 3rd pairing role for the big club, I can't see Ken Holland doing this.

 

With cap space to burn, history tells me that Kenny will likely either re-sign Quincey or bring in a UFA Dman that he thinks will help the team.

 

Almquist is another story. If you simply delete Quincey and add Amquist, the Wings "defensive" struggles from this season don't get any better. They lose a player who as of late has been one of their better "defensive" Dmen, and add one who won't add the same dimension.

 

I think the real question should be, when does Lashoff becomes expendable? His ceiling is pretty much a #6/7 guy. It's probably a safe assumption that in a more perfect season (less injuries, Kindl plays the way he did to justify a $2.4M cap hit, and Smith has less growing pains), Lashoff would've spent a large chunk of 13/14 as a healthy scratch.

 

Which brings me to Almquist... If the Red Wings go into training camp with an established top-6 (likely Kronwall, Ericsson, DeKeyser, Quincey/UFA, Smith and Kindl) and Amquist adds some strength in the offseason, would a strong camp and preseason make the team consider giving him the #7 spot instead over Lashoff? I have to think that if Almquist shows that he can still develop into a puck moving top-4 guy, it wouldn't be worth losing him over a guy that is pretty much Derek Meech v2.0.

 

With an impressive AHL resume, I can't see how Almquist would clear waivers next season. However, his lack of an NHL resume likely means he won't net more than a late round pick if they try to trade him.

 

Logic tells me that with three Dmen that are likely to be NHL regulars within the next couple seasons able to go up and down from GR, his easily buried cap hit and low upside, Lashoff has to have the same kind of expendability that Cory Emmerton has had the past three seasons.

 

I guess time will tell.



#47 DSM

DSM

    2nd Line Scorer

  • Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 650 posts

Posted 21 April 2014 - 12:36 PM

For the record, Greene was inserted into LA's lineup Las night and was -4 in 13:23 of ice time...

#48 haroldsnepsts

haroldsnepsts

    "Classy"

  • HoF Booster Mod
  • 16,912 posts

Posted 21 April 2014 - 12:52 PM

For the record, Greene was inserted into LA's lineup Las night and was -4 in 13:23 of ice time...

 

I didn't see the game so can't speak to specifics, but the Kings got shelled in the game without Greene as well.  I don't know that he's what's going wrong with LA right now.

 

That being said, my main concerns with acquiring Greene though would be his health and his lack of footspeed. 


  • DSM likes this

#49 DSM

DSM

    2nd Line Scorer

  • Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 650 posts

Posted 21 April 2014 - 01:20 PM

 

I didn't see the game so can't speak to specifics, but the Kings got shelled in the game without Greene as well.  I don't know that he's what's going wrong with LA right now.

 

That being said, my main concerns with acquiring Greene though would be his health and his lack of footspeed. 

 

I agree with both.

 

I fell asleep during the 1st intermission of the game, and while looking at some stats from it I remembered this thread.

 

FWIW, he was also sent to the box for a roughing minor to give the Sharks the PP that Thornton scored their 7th goal on.



#50 cnot19

cnot19

    2nd Line Scorer

  • Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 544 posts
  • Location:New Jersey

Posted 21 April 2014 - 03:44 PM

 

I agree with both.

 

I fell asleep during the 1st intermission of the game, and while looking at some stats from it I remembered this thread.

 

FWIW, he was also sent to the box for a roughing minor to give the Sharks the PP that Thornton scored their 7th goal on.

 

 

Just fyi That penalty wash't really his it should have been assessed to WIllie Mitchell. 


Get me a real fourth line Kenny!

#51 Richdg

Richdg

    1st Line All-Star

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,938 posts

Posted 21 April 2014 - 09:38 PM

The idea of signing Greene or Fayne-who is a better choice is a good idea. Adding a RHed stay at home guy to pair with Smith. We have the money and our young Dmen need time. Going with a BL of Dekeyser, Kronwall, E, Smith, Sproul and Oullett is not a good idea. There is no need to rush the last 2. They have 2 more full years they can play in GR. let them grow up and develop. Its not like smith and dekeyser don't have more work and developing to do on their own.



#52 DSM

DSM

    2nd Line Scorer

  • Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 650 posts

Posted 24 April 2014 - 04:38 PM

The idea of signing Greene or Fayne-who is a better choice is a good idea. Adding a RHed stay at home guy to pair with Smith. We have the money and our young Dmen need time. Going with a BL of Dekeyser, Kronwall, E, Smith, Sproul and Oullett is not a good idea. There is no need to rush the last 2. They have 2 more full years they can play in GR. let them grow up and develop. Its not like smith and dekeyser don't have more work and developing to do on their own.

 

I agree. I however think that the Red Wings should bring in TWO Dmen this summer on short term contracts. These two Dmen will have defined roles that will hopefully add stability to a blueline that is patched together with too many "question marks".

 

I mean, lets look at the Red Wings dmen this season and try to quantify wether they have a defined role or placement:

 

-Kronwall - #1 Dman, PP QB. Defined role.

-Ericsson - Proven to be able to play top line minutes. Plays well paired with Kronwall. Defined.

-DeKeyser - Already plays well in his own zone, kills penalties, PP. Cemented spot in second pairing and also played well on first pairing with Kronwall. Defined.

-Quincey - Seems like he has finally settled down his defensive game and has been decent with DeKeyser, but if re-signed can he continue that into next season, or will he go back to the way he played early this season and last season? Question Mark.

-Kindl - Regressed after locking down a top 4 spot last season. Can he return to that level of play, or will he continue to struggle to even hold onto a third pairing spot? Question Mark.

-Smith - Is lamented for penalties and turnovers, but seems to be playing better with Kronwall. Can his game settle down and mature to where he can be a top 4 guy? Question Mark.

-Lashoff - Can he become a regular 3rd pairing shut down type guy, or is he destined to always be a #7 plug? Question Mark.

 

That's just too many unknowns to me.

 

I think the Wings should let Quincey walk and target two veteran UFA's that play established roles:

 

- An established top 4 RH shot that can also play the point on the PP. (Dan Boyle, Marek Zidlicky or Tom Gilbert)

- An established big physical Dman that can play a shut down role on the 3rd pair. (Brooks Orpik, Willie Mitchell, Greene, Cory Sarich, etc.

 

Each could probably be had for 1-2 years, which would create some openings for when Sproul, Ouellet and Marchenko are ready to claim spots on the big club or run out of waiver exemption.

 

With five proven dmen, Smith and Kindl in the mix, and Sproul, Ouellet and Marchenko able to fill in if needed, I think Lashoff can easily be waived to get down to 23 men and play in GR if unclaimed.

 

That way you have Kindl and Smith battling to hammer down the last spot, or can rotate with the UFA 3rd pairing guy brought in.


Edited by DSM, 24 April 2014 - 04:39 PM.


#53 Son of a Wing

Son of a Wing

    London Lions Captain

  • Gold Booster
  • 1,756 posts
  • Location:London, Ontario

Posted 24 April 2014 - 04:46 PM

 

I didn't see the game so can't speak to specifics, but the Kings got shelled in the game without Greene as well.  I don't know that he's what's going wrong with LA right now.

 

That being said, my main concerns with acquiring Greene though would be his health and his lack of footspeed. 

 

This...  San Jose is absolutely skating circles around LA and Greene's severe lack of foot speed is the main reason he hasn't played much.  

 

He's worn down a lot over the recent years and would struggle to fill anything more than a 6/7th spot in the upcoming season.


"The leader must never close the gap between himself and the group. If he does, he is no longer what he must be. He must walk a tightrope between the consent he must win and the control he must exert."
Vince Lombardi
 
When asked who won, Babcock said, “Well it doesn’t really matter as long as you don’t lose. It’s like going bear hunting, you take a slow guy with you in case the bear is hungry.”





Similar Topics Collapse

0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users