The Franzen Hate.

[Shinzaki 72]

He's the Wings answer to Prince Fielder...a guy who just isn't playing up to his contact and doesn't seem to give a 3F about it. He is most definitely shying away from the slot in this series...I wonder if that concussion he took earlier this year is having an impact on his style of play.

[T.Low 1,011]

What?

I'm thinking his mom took his Playstation away so he's trying to play somewhere else...

[The Greek 323]

And now this has become debatable.

Sure, it's debatable when you take that one sentence and present it without any context. When you read the sentence, following the one you quoted, it becomes clear that I was saying Franzen's numbers don't tell the whole story (I.e. he's not as valuable as the stats say he is). I don't understand why you're quoting my post in such a way that makes it appear that I am defending franzen.

Edited April 25, 2014 by The Greek

[DRW Dominance 255]

i hate franzen....and i don't care about his cap hit...buy him out...he ain't gettin any better or tryin any harder.

you never know which guy is going to show up.

[DatsyukianDekes 2,428]

Last 3 years in the playoffs.

Dan Cleary - 30GP 16 Points

Franzen 24GP 8 Points

Let that soak in for abit.

[Motown4013 350]

Here are my feelings in a nut shell

Franzen, by far is the MOST frustrating player I have ever watched. He is lazy. He is streaky. He takes a month to get off on a line change. He doesn't use his size effectively. He lays on the ice to try and draw a penalty at least once a game. He makes poor decisions. He doesn't make his team mates better...... and, in fact, I think to some of them, he has been a deterrent to their progress.

I have accepted that......until the later part of this season. Coupled with all the reasons mentioned above, he is now actually a liability on the ice. He has never been a great two way player but much like his offensive contributions have diminished, I think his defensive deficiencies are negligent to this team. I don't understand why he wasn't demoted 4 months ago. You can't wait 25 games waiting for the "08 Franzen" to show up. Whoever that guy was, he's dead. I would gladly use our last compliance buy out this summer on him.

I'm not a psychiatrist but I really believe he is having some sort of mental health issue. All those rumours that swirled around about him could be very well true. If that is the case, I wish he would just disclose it and get on with things- it's no different than being diabetic in my mind. It's not a weakness and certainly not anything someone would wish for. If that's the problem, He has a medical issue that impacts his ability to play. I look at a guy like TooToo who came clean with his issues with alcohol and my respect level for the guy soared. Shane Corson and his issues with OCD and panic disorder also come to mind. In fact, if the Mule did disclose some type of anxiety disorder or depressive disorder, I may view him differently.

Whatever the issue is, I no longer respect as a player because of the way he has handled the entire situation. If there is something more and he was able to seek treatment for it, my perspective may very well change.

[evilmrt 636]

Didn't see this anywhere else.....Babs vents on Franzen to the media (mlive):

Babcock said Franzen is a good person and family man who tries to be a good teammate but doesn’t handle the media as well as he should.

“If you stepped right up and talked it makes it easier,” Babcock said. “When you don’t, things build and I think that puts more pressure on you. I don’t know why you’d do that.”

He drew a comparison to an ordinary job.

“You have a meeting and no one says anything; you walk out the door and talk behind each other’s back,” Babcock said. “If you just call each other out and have the hard meeting, then everyone can get on with progress.

“He’s a man; he’s got to deal with that himself.”

Franzen was a force in the playoffs between 2008 and 2010, with 31 goals (including nine game-winners), 59 points and a plus-29 rating in 51 games. Since 2011, he has seven goals, 11 points and a minus-9 rating in 31 postseason games.

“We need more out of the Mule,” Babcock said. “It’s simple.”

The tone here from Babs is a bit harsher than before. Reading through his professionalism, you'd almost think he was fed up with Franzen. Not a huge stretch of the imagination to see a buyout this summer.

[Z Winged Dangler 2,082]

Seems like the majority of the people here enjoy conclusion jumping.

I don't like Franzen either. He should be bought out after this season. I'd've said that about Weiss, but I'd sooner have Weiss over Franzen. Johan is a waste of salary and space. I'm just wondering what's with the inconsistencies in opinions I see.

"He sucks during the season! He's only good during the playoffs!"

"He sucks during the playoffs! He's only good during the season!"

I agree that all that really matters is the Cup, but a lot of people don't realize how stupid they sound. So yes, I agree that Franzen should be off the team, but he's a good reason why the team got to the playoffs in the first place.

Franzen is awesome for 20 games a year and is lazy garbage the rest. How's that?

[Salviaman 104]

Franzen deserves the hate

[unsaddleddonald 357]

The question with Mule is this:

Does he take us closer to being cup contender or farther away from it?

No denying what a talent and times unstoppable force he can be. BUT the constant guessing of which mule is going to show up takes its toll from the top down.

Wish he was always trying even if not successful. I think his anxiety issues + pressure have really done him in last few years.

I've always thought that he thrived in that 2nd fiddle role, most recently behind Hossa.

It's mentally taxing on him to be THE guy, IMO.

[unsaddleddonald 357]

Links regarding Franzen's anxiety issues:

http://kuklaskorner.com/tmr/comments/addressing-speculation-regarding-johan-franzens-ailment

http://blog.mlive.com/snapshots/2009/11/aftonbladet_red_wings_forward.html

[Internet.Unknown 422]

Links regarding Franzen's anxiety issues:

http://kuklaskorner.com/tmr/comments/addressing-speculation-regarding-johan-franzens-ailment

http://blog.mlive.com/snapshots/2009/11/aftonbladet_red_wings_forward.html

Wasn't this anxiety speculation addressed mid-season? I seem to remember Franzen and others denying it.

[Hack & Whack Rule! 160]

Franzen is lazy and he sucks!

Now that I've got that off my chest, I think he is lazy. Since he got his 300 year contract, I can't help but see it. I don't think I'm alone in this either. The fact that he is lazy because of his 300 year contract, is the reason he sucks. Finding the mesh a few times does not make up for the floating he does. It doesn't make up for the fact that in game 4 it looked like he was shooting the puck with a shovel. At least Cleary digs deep, and look at the pile of poop that gets thrown on him.

[fixxxer 11]

He's the Wings answer to Prince Fielder...a guy who just isn't playing up to his contact and doesn't seem to give a 3F about it. He is most definitely shying away from the slot in this series...I wonder if that concussion he took earlier this year is having an impact on his style of play.

His concussion didn't have any impact in his play Franzen was never one to go to the slot.

I've always thought that he thrived in that 2nd fiddle role, most recently behind Hossa.

It's mentally taxing on him to be THE guy, IMO.

Its part of sports IMO that attention will come your way its no secrete. Which is why this whole anxiety disorder that came up mid season doesn't make sense to me. I'm very skeptical.

[Richdg 267]

Hate? No. Honest dislike for his play? Yes. I don't hate anyone. But Franzen needs to go. I have been saying it for several years. He has amazing talent, but only uses it for 15 games per season. Anyone else performs like that at their jobs and they are fired. So why isn't he?

Franzen isn't a young player that can get better, he is 34. He also has mental issues, has had 3-4 concussions, and a very long term contract. We have 1 more chance to fix all of this. We have 1 buyout left, and it has to be used this summer. No we don't have cap issues this year. In fact we have cap floor issues if we do buy him out. But over the next 2-3 years we have several young guys that will be pushing for long term big money deals. Do we really want to risk getting to the point where we can't resign a Tatar, Jurco, Sheahan, Dekeyser etc.... becasue we are short of cash due to Franzen's 4 mil per season cap hit? Hell no! In fact is Franzen even going to be able to play in 2-3 years? Concussion effects build up over time.

It is time to cut bait. Using the buyout on Tootoo-who has 1 year left at 1.9 mil is a waste and does nothing for us long term. In both cases each player is going to get their money no matter what happens. Time to buy out Franzen and let him go back home to play in Sweden where he doesn't have to deal with the media/pressure/concussion issues anymore.

[lomekian 201]

The endless ragging on Franzen is dull and unproductive.

We all know what he is...an inconsistent, floaty, 25 goal - 50-60 point winger who can play at centre if need be. Despite apocalyptic predictions, his PPG production hasn't dropped off much in the reg season, though he is struggling in the playoffs. He has been the same player for 4 years or so after that major knee injury slowed him a touch.

His confidence/shyness issues have been hampering him on and off for his whole career. He was drafted as a 4th liner with upside, and his play alternates between the standard of all four lines. For 20 games a season he's a 3rd liner, for 35 he's a second liner, for 15 he's a first liner, and for the rest he's injured or invisible. He's always been super streaky. It all depends on when his streaks hit. In this series he's actually been getting chances and making some very good rushes, and with the level of finishing we've previously seen from him, he could easily have 3 or 4 goals, but he's been missing the net from decent situations. Admittedly this is mostly from the outside or hovering centrally out of traffic, but he has broken through multiple checks only to find himself isolated on occasions.

I feel given his obvious flaws, he has been misused. You need him to be with someone who plays with high intensity in attack, and someone else defensively responsible enough for him to be freed up OR you play him with someone like Zetterburg who alternates between centre and wing, and thus encourages Franzen to do the same.

Mule, apart from his 10 game bursts, can't anchor a line. but he's a defensively responsibly streaker points scorer, who is currently worth his contract, and whose less physically engaged style of play should lend him greater longevity than other comparative peers (and the lower intensity of his pre NHL career). I think by the time he no longer represents value, either the cap hit will be unimportant, or he'll be on LTIR.

I wouldn't be upset if we trade him for decent value, but buying him out is a waste of resources in the short and medium term. At worst he'll be an over-priced top level third liner. I can live with that. There are certainly bigger fish to fry.

Edited April 26, 2014 by lomekian

[Richdg 267]

The endless ragging on Franzen is dull and unproductive.

We all know what he is...an inconsistent, floaty, 25 goal - 50-60 point winger who can play at centre if need be. Despite apocalyptic predictions, his PPG production hasn't dropped off much in the reg season, though he is struggling in the playoffs. He has been the same player for 4 years or so after that major knee injury slowed him a touch.

His confidence/shyness issues have been hampering him on and off for his whole career. He was drafted as a 4th liner with upside, and his play alternates between the standard of all four lines. For 20 games a season he's a 3rd liner, for 35 he's a second liner, for 15 he's a first liner, and for the rest he's injured or invisible. He's always been super streaky. It all depends on when his streaks hit. In this series he's actually been getting chances and making some very good rushes, and with the level of finishing we've previously seen from him, he could easily have 3 or 4 goals, but he's been missing the net from decent situations. Admittedly this is mostly from the outside or hovering centrally out of traffic, but he has broken through multiple checks only to find himself isolated on occasions.

I feel given his obvious flaws, he has been misused. You need him to be with someone who plays with high intensity in attack, and someone else defensively responsible enough for him to be freed up OR you play him with someone like Zetterburg who alternates between centre and wing, and thus encourages Franzen to do the same.

Mule, apart from his 10 game bursts, can't anchor a line. but he's a defensively responsibly streaker points scorer, who is currently worth his contract, and whose less physically engaged style of play should lend him greater longevity than other comparative peers (and the lower intensity of his pre NHL career). I think by the time he no longer represents value, either the cap hit will be unimportant, or he'll be on LTIR.

I wouldn't be upset if we trade him for decent value, but buying him out is a waste of resources in the short and medium term. At worst he'll be an over-priced top level third liner. I can live with that. There are certainly bigger fish to fry.

Just an idea: UPGRADE over him. He isn't what we need-as you pointed out. There are only so many roster spots and if he can't be the player we need then replace him. That is how the real world works. Don't try, do or don't do. If you do, great we will keep you around. if not, then bring in the next guy. Pretty simple.

[Mors 201]

http://kuklaskorner.com/a2y/comments/franzens-inevitable-exit

Interesting.

[evilmrt 636]

http://kuklaskorner.com/a2y/comments/franzens-inevitable-exit

Interesting.

Yeah, thats exactly what I was getting at with the same comments from Babs in the mlive article. If we assume that Babs's tone reflects, at least to some degree, the attitude of the front office.....Franzen is gone unless he makes a huge change starting today.

[GoWings1905 2,694]

I can see Babs wanting Franzen gone and Holland ultimately nixing the plan this summer. Holland has a lot of trouble letting players go that have been with the organization. He will just say Franzen provides good value for the contract, knows the system, can perform better when healthy a full season, etc.

It's time for Franzen to be done here. If he's lazy now, imagine how ugly it will get as he continues to age. This season has proven the Wings youth at forward can play in the NHL. Franzen may have been less expendable a year ago, but he's definitely not anymore.

[Detroit # 1 Fan 2,204]

http://kuklaskorner.com/a2y/comments/franzens-inevitable-exit

Interesting.

I hope this is true, but until I see the TSN article "Wings to use compliance buyout on Johan Franzen" I won't believe it.

[wings_fanatic 677]

I hope this is true, but until I see the TSN article "Wings to use compliance buyout on Johan Franzen" I won't believe it.

He does have a reasonable contract cap hit wise. Obviously the length sucks, but cap hit wise it is not too bad. So before just buying him out, I would try to make up a package of him and w.e else to make a trade to get something, like maybe Stewart from Buffalo. If there are no takers, then by all means yes buy him out.

[Detroit # 1 Fan 2,204]

He does have a reasonable contract cap hit wise. Obviously the length sucks, but cap hit wise it is not too bad. So before just buying him out, I would try to make up a package of him and w.e else to make a trade to get something, like maybe Stewart from Buffalo. If there are no takers, then by all means yes buy him out.

Very true. I've gotta imagine at his cap # someone will be interested in him. At the end of the day, he should be done as a Wing, either via trade or buyout.

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

Very true. I've gotta imagine at his cap # someone will be interested in him. At the end of the day, he should be done as a Wing, either via trade or buyout.

I can't remember all the ins and outs of the new CBA, but the Wings can pick up part of his salary in a trade, can't they?

There might be a situation where that makes more financial sense than a full buyout.

Again, though I don't know enough about the CBA rules regarding buyouts and eating salary to be sure.

[VM1138 1,921]

I don't see us using the buyout on him. His cap hit isn't bad and I'm sure some team would like to take him. He'd be traded.

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