• Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

Alextricity

The Franzen Hate.

Rate this topic

Recommended Posts

I'm on board wearing the conductor hat on the franzen hate train now. He just seems not to be able to step up when it counts anymore. Use the buyout now while you still can and maybe we can get a young impact player with his money

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

41 pts in 54 gp for $4 mill is fine by me. Expecting Franzen to be our teams goal scoring X factor in most games is unrealistic IMO. He's a $4 million dollar player, not a $6 or a $7 million dollar player like Datsyuk and Zetterberg.

"But he could be so much better!"

No he can't. He's good for 50-60 pts a season and that's it. Expecting more bc of his brief 08-09 playoff streak is unfair.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Filppula: on pace for 63 pts

Franzen: on pace for 62 pts

Fil costs about a million more than Franzen, so Tampa should buy him out right?

Franzen buy out a no brainer? U ppl live in a bizarre fantasy land

Hudler: on pace for 59 pts and he costs the same as Franzen. Calgary definitely going to buy him out too *rolls eyes*

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

41 pts in 54 gp for $4 mill is fine by me. Expecting Franzen to be our teams goal scoring X factor in most games is unrealistic IMO. He's a $4 million dollar player, not a $6 or a $7 million dollar player like Datsyuk and Zetterberg.

"But he could be so much better!"

No he can't. He's good for 50-60 pts a season and that's it. Expecting more bc of his brief 08-09 playoff streak is unfair.

One goal in 23 games, none in the playoffs. How can he possibly not do better than that? None of us expect him to be the Euro Twins. Franzen should be able to perform more consistently than he has, though. What else is he doing on the ice if he isn't scoring goals besides passing the puck up the middle to the wrong team? Edited by GoWings1905

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Franzen or Lucic. Which would you rather have? Money is about the same, goals per year is about the same. Franzen can't be Lucic and that is who/what we need. But we get to watch Franzen for 6 more years! Ok maybe 2 more playing then pay for him for another 4. That 4 then becomes 8.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Filppula: on pace for 63 pts

Franzen: on pace for 62 pts

Fil costs about a million more than Franzen, so Tampa should buy him out right?

Franzen buy out a no brainer? U ppl live in a bizarre fantasy land

Hudler: on pace for 59 pts and he costs the same as Franzen. Calgary definitely going to buy him out too *rolls eyes*

Do you watch the games or do you look at the boxscores ?

Franzen made 3 bad turnovers yesterday, one of them cost us a goal the other two created odd man rushes the other way. Put Nyquist with Datsyuk and Zetterberg and he will outscore Franzen but play a complete game.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hockey isn't purely an exercise in statistics...you can't look at Franzen and say "he got us 41 pts...OK" You have to look at the actual games. He's shown NOTHING in the playoffs the last few years and his production in a major portion of the regular season was equally poor. You simply cannot have a guy getting top six minutes sleepwalk through the majority of your games.. Send a message to the team about consistency of effort and dump him now...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
If you have all white collar workers, nothing gets done, despite a lot of conversation. If its all blue collar, there's plenty of sweat but often pointlessly.
Wings fans endless bitching online everywhere about Franzen is often missing the point. He's always been a bit floaty, and always been streaky, and has always been massively vulnerable to losses of confidence. But when he was having his good streaks in a better team at a better time, no-one minded.
He's not the man to be THE guy. He's best as A guy, and at his cap hit, that's what he should be. People screaming lazyness are being stupid. You can't be an elite athlete in any sport if you are lazy. The management have always spoke of his professionalism.
He just doesn't have a high enough compete or confidence levels to maximise his talents, and because he occasionally goes on incredible runs of form, people equate his off periods with a lack of effort.
Apart from his first season as a 4th line scrub, he's always been a reasonably defensively responsible perimeter player with the size and skill to surprise. But after those two great playoff series, fans see him as first line power forward and judge him by those expectations. But despite showing the ability from time to time, he isn't that player. And never has been.
He's a shy team first guy, who doesn't deal with being in the spotlight, but as a 3rd wheel on a line with a shooter and a passer (preferably one with speed and the other with serious intensity) he can thrive.
He's frustrating, disappointing and still very good in a secondary role. It really doesn't help that every time we see him get real chemistry on a line, Babcock breaks that line up. Maybe the coach can see the drop off coming, but he doesn't work with Dats or Helm very well, but does ok with Legwand and Zetterburg, and definitely has chemistry with Nyquist. So he barely gets to play with them......
There is no doubt that his injury problems, particularly the resultant shying away from contact for a while, are a concern, but the guy still put up 40ish points in 50ish games on a depleted team...and his PPG rate in the playoffs was as good as anyone not named D or Z.
But he's the scapegoat because our kids give us hope for the future, and our higher paid players have all been injured, and the others have proved their mediocrity over time. The guy makes less than Weiss, less than Legwand, marginally more than Quincy and not a lot more than Sammy, and yet he's a disaster.
Guy's salary/PPG since his new contract is as good as anyone not on an ELC in that time. And yet we should pay him 20m to go away to a rival team for nothing, while not yet having a replacement, because we are worried about a PPG decline that hasn't yet happened on a team that has spent the last 15 years specialising on squeezing the last drops out of aging pros. If it all goes **** up in 2-3 years, I'm sure we can do a deal to LTIR him.

Franzen or Lucic. Which would you rather have? Money is about the same, goals per year is about the same. Franzen can't be Lucic and that is who/what we need. But we get to watch Franzen for 6 more years! Ok maybe 2 more playing then pay for him for another 4. That 4 then becomes 8.

Lucic costs 50% more and players like him are pretty hard to get hold of in the first place.


Do you watch the games or do you look at the boxscores ?

Franzen made 3 bad turnovers yesterday, one of them cost us a goal the other two created odd man rushes the other way. Put Nyquist with Datsyuk and Zetterberg and he will outscore Franzen but play a complete game.

He also came close with 2 good scoring chances and forced 2 really good saves from Rask. But of course no-one else's turnovers count.

No-one is saying he is perfect. It just makes no strategic sense to get rid of him at this point unless something else is happening for sure.

People trying to turn this into a black or white either/or need to look at the reality.


Hockey isn't purely an exercise in statistics...you can't look at Franzen and say "he got us 41 pts...OK" You have to look at the actual games. He's shown NOTHING in the playoffs the last few years and his production in a major portion of the regular season was equally poor. You simply cannot have a guy getting top six minutes sleepwalk through the majority of your games.. Send a message to the team about consistency of effort and dump him now...

Until we have someone to replace him, someone has to score those points. Dead wood leaves, cap goes up and worst case scenario we're stuck with and over-priced 3rd liner who occasionally goes on good runs.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Fil is a Center, and a good bit younger than Franzen, plus, we let him walk, so I don't see why you're comparing the two.

Franzen is a lazy one dimensional player, and contrary to the Wings' system. I'd rather invest 4mil elswhere.

Would you buyout a 50-60 pt player at 4 million?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
If you have all white collar workers, nothing gets done, despite a lot of conversation. If its all blue collar, there's plenty of sweat but often pointlessly.
Wings fans endless bitching online everywhere about Franzen is often missing the point. He's always been a bit floaty, and always been streaky, and has always been massively vulnerable to losses of confidence. But when he was having his good streaks in a better team at a better time, no-one minded.
He's not the man to be THE guy. He's best as A guy, and at his cap hit, that's what he should be. People screaming lazyness are being stupid. You can't be an elite athlete in any sport if you are lazy. The management have always spoke of his professionalism.
He just doesn't have a high enough compete or confidence levels to maximise his talents, and because he occasionally goes on incredible runs of form, people equate his off periods with a lack of effort.
Apart from his first season as a 4th line scrub, he's always been a reasonably defensively responsible perimeter player with the size and skill to surprise. But after those two great playoff series, fans see him as first line power forward and judge him by those expectations. But despite showing the ability from time to time, he isn't that player. And never has been.
He's a shy team first guy, who doesn't deal with being in the spotlight, but as a 3rd wheel on a line with a shooter and a passer (preferably one with speed and the other with serious intensity) he can thrive.
He's frustrating, disappointing and still very good in a secondary role. It really doesn't help that every time we see him get real chemistry on a line, Babcock breaks that line up. Maybe the coach can see the drop off coming, but he doesn't work with Dats or Helm very well, but does ok with Legwand and Zetterburg, and definitely has chemistry with Nyquist. So he barely gets to play with them......
There is no doubt that his injury problems, particularly the resultant shying away from contact for a while, are a concern, but the guy still put up 40ish points in 50ish games on a depleted team...and his PPG rate in the playoffs was as good as anyone not named D or Z.
But he's the scapegoat because our kids give us hope for the future, and our higher paid players have all been injured, and the others have proved their mediocrity over time. The guy makes less than Weiss, less than Legwand, marginally more than Quincy and not a lot more than Sammy, and yet he's a disaster.
Guy's salary/PPG since his new contract is as good as anyone not on an ELC in that time. And yet we should pay him 20m to go away to a rival team for nothing, while not yet having a replacement, because we are worried about a PPG decline that hasn't yet happened on a team that has spent the last 15 years specialising on squeezing the last drops out of aging pros. If it all goes **** up in 2-3 years, I'm sure we can do a deal to LTIR him.

Lucic costs 50% more and players like him are pretty hard to get hold of in the first place.

He also came close with 2 good scoring chances and forced 2 really good saves from Rask. But of course no-one else's turnovers count.

No-one is saying he is perfect. It just makes no strategic sense to get rid of him at this point unless something else is happening for sure.

People trying to turn this into a black or white either/or need to look at the reality.

Until we have someone to replace him, someone has to score those points. Dead wood leaves, cap goes up and worst case scenario we're stuck with and over-priced 3rd liner who occasionally goes on good runs.

Difference being, he was the reason a goal was scored on us in that game. Game might have been different if he actually tried to pass while skating instead of standing still.

I know i know, too much effort.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

One goal in 23 games, none in the playoffs. How can he possibly not do better than that? None of us expect him to be the Euro Twins. Franzen should be able to perform more consistently than he has, though. What else is he doing on the ice if he isn't scoring goals besides passing the puck up the middle to the wrong team?

Not one of the kids had a pt in the playoffs either, but they are cool and new unlike Franzen

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think we should assume he will not be bought out. So the question, IMO, is what role should we ask him to fill? IMO we should put him back to what he was before his offensive breakout -- a checking-line guy (I prefer him at centre) who shadows the other team's big men (Getzlaf, Thornton et al) and kills penalties. He was very effective in that role and chipped in with the odd goal, including a series winner in OT when he was still a third- or fourth-liner. I think if he was returned to that role, he would not only excel in it, he would regain some of his lost confidence and he'd be worth most of the $4M he's going to collect each of the next six years. Any offence would be a bonus, but we'd stop relying on him to be a big scorer and put that mantle on younger players like Tatar, Nyquist and Mantha.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Do you watch the games or do you look at the boxscores ?

Franzen made 3 bad turnovers yesterday, one of them cost us a goal the other two created odd man rushes the other way. Put Nyquist with Datsyuk and Zetterberg and he will outscore Franzen but play a complete game.

"Do u even watch the games bra?"

Everyone is quick to forget that Nyquist was invisible at the beginning of his season And pointless in these playoffs. I personally think Nyquist will be a great player one day, but that's just my amateur opinion. At this point in his career he's just as streaky as Franzen.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Not one of the kids had a pt in the playoffs either, but they are cool and new unlike Franzen

They also all make under 1 million and aren't 34 years old and declining.

Franzen can be an effective defensive forward good for 50 points a year but that's not what he's here for. He's here to be our goal scored and until he's gone people will get pissed when he doesn't score goals. The guy doesn't suck, he's just in the wrong role. Which is why I say we should trade him. Someone will give us something for him.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Playmaker

The thought of having to watch him for six more seasons....Ugh. I've tried to look at the stats and think of the contract as a good value, but that damn lack of effort is so infuriating and frustrating, it's hard to tolerate any more. I can forgive guys like Lashoff and Kindl who just don't have the talent, or even Cleary as you know he's giving an honest effort but his body is just so broken down, it can't do what he wants it to do.

I have little hope that he'll be bought out and definitely won't be traded. I think he just drags the whole team down. Why would the coach need to have to talk to a long time veteran NHLer and ask him to do something? That speaks volumes.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hockey isn't purely an exercise in statistics...you can't look at Franzen and say "he got us 41 pts...OK" You have to look at the actual games. He's shown NOTHING in the playoffs the last few years and his production in a major portion of the regular season was equally poor. You simply cannot have a guy getting top six minutes sleepwalk through the majority of your games.. Send a message to the team about consistency of effort and dump him now...

So which $4 million consistent scorer should we grab?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

They also all make under 1 million and aren't 34 years old and declining.

Franzen can be an effective defensive forward good for 50 points a year but that's not what he's here for. He's here to be our goal scored and until he's gone people will get pissed when he doesn't score goals. The guy doesn't suck, he's just in the wrong role. Which is why I say we should trade him. Someone will give us something for him.

For a guy who's here to be THE goal scorer, he certainly isn't paid like one. Maybe it's just the fans who want him to be that guy, and the wings know exactly what he is: a $4 million 2nd line scorer

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I laugh every time Franzen loses the puck with no pressure on him or can't catch a pass because I think back of all the times he was touted by announcers as having some of the "softest hands" in the league.

Dude must use a lot of Jurgens because he definitely can't handle the puck.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

For a guy who's here to be THE goal scorer, he certainly isn't paid like one. Maybe it's just the fans who want him to be that guy, and the wings know exactly what he is: a $4 million 2nd line scorer

The Wings didn't hand him an 11 year contract because they wanted to lock up a 2nd liner for the next decade. Especially one who doesn't score in the playoffs. They may know exactly what he is now, but it's not what they hoped he'd be in 2009.

It is why Franzen is likely staying here though. He'll put up his points assuming he stays healthy. He just isn't THE guy and never will be. So the Wings can keep him for some second line scoring during the regular season but need to find a goal scorer who plays like he gives a s*** and will put up points in the playoffs.

I'm guessing it'll be at least a couple more seasons until he becomes so intolerable that Holland will buy him out or make a trade.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The Wings didn't hand him an 11 year contract because they wanted to lock up a 2nd liner for the next decade. Especially one who doesn't score in the playoffs. They may know exactly what he is now, but it's not what they hoped he'd be in 2009.

It is why Franzen is likely staying here though. He'll put up his points assuming he stays healthy. He just isn't THE guy and never will be. So the Wings can keep him for some second line scoring during the regular season but need to find a goal scorer who plays like he gives a s*** and will put up points in the playoffs.

I'm guessing it'll be at least a couple more seasons until he becomes so intolerable that Holland will buy him out or make a trade.

Here's the problem, intolerable? Really? You act like he actively shoots us in the foot when he's not scoring. He doesn't. He's a reliable defensive presence. Everyone just expects him to score every game, then he doesn't and fans get frustrated. Yup we have 2nd liner locked up on a long contract. He's never getting bought out barring a huge drop in overall scoring

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Not one of the kids had a pt in the playoffs either, but they are cool and new unlike Franzen

If they perform like that for four years running in the playoffs, I will be all over them too. Franzen is a veteran; the kids were playing in their first series against the best team in hockey. Major difference between the two.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hockey isn't purely an exercise in statistics...you can't look at Franzen and say "he got us 41 pts...OK" You have to look at the actual games. He's shown NOTHING in the playoffs the last few years and his production in a major portionof the regular season was equally poor. You simply cannot have a guy getting top six minutes sleepwalk through the majority of your games.. Send a message to the team about consistency of effort and dump him now...

So which $4 million consistent scorer should we grab?

His goals come in an increasingly smaller amount of games. Don't get caught up on 30 goals a year. If you count them by games its probably like 15.

He's fine if we use him as a third liner but Babcock won't. So get rid of him. I think we need to re-evaluate the roles of players. All of our frustrations come from players who are forced into the wrong roles. Franzen is not a top 6 scorer. He is occasional secondary scoring forward. Abdelkader is not a top line power forward, and hence frustration there.

Holland and Babcock need to recalibrate the lineup based on roles players can actually play and go from there.

Sent from my ADR6350 using Tapatalk 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now