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The Franzen Hate.

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He averages a goal every 3 games. Does it matter if he scores them in bunches or exactly one every third game?

Yes, especially when Franzen scores one in the final 23 games of the season. He lived on the playoff beast fallback for years and now he doesn't score there either.

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Guest DeGraa55

He averages a goal every 3 games. Does it matter if he scores them in bunches or exactly one every third game?

YES!

When he isn't scoring he is doing NOTHING.

When vanek isn't scoring he still tries and outs pressure on the opposing team.

When dat and z aren't scoring they're playing great defensive, providing great leadership, and still out pressure in the opposing teams.

Abby, helm and glendening when they're not scoring they hitting, playing defense, being a thorn in the side etx etc.

When Franzen isn't scoring he BRINGS NOTHING. There's some things that are done with what's called and eyeball test. Franzen fails the eyeball test in every single way.

But at the end I the year he will get in 25 goals in 20 games. And just useless for the other 62.

People know how I feel about Franzen but with that said. This team is needs a couple shanahan like wingers and until that happens we won't win a cup. And the sad thing is we could win with this defense...adding a righty or two would be great to replace Quincey and kindl though.

If you're going to flash numbers at least get them right.

Tied for 133rd in goals

Tied for 108th in assists

Tied for 106th in FO win%

Tied for 121th in points

Tied for 241st in blocked shots

Tied for 286th in takeaways

Despite being at 335th in games played he put offensive numbers well within the 180 mark. His defensive numbers would probably be inside the 180 mark too if he had been healthy. These numbers paint the picture of a Top 3 forward since his offensive numbers would be inside the 90 mark had he played a full season. Isn't that just silly?

Well he's tied for 75th in the league in average goals per game so I'd say yes you can call him a goal scorer. You might ask: Who else is tied for 75th with him? Evander Kane and Milan Lucic among others. What other goal scorers are below him? Jagr, Lecavalier, Mackinnon, Voracek, Gaborik, Eric Staal, Hartnell, Ladd, Jussi Jokinen, Dustin Brown, Eriksson, and more.

And at his sticker price he's a pretty good bargain too. I sure love being silly.

Every single person you listed provides MORE than just goal scoring though.

Some of those guys actually hit, some actually playoff defense, some actually fight etc etc

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I don't really mind Franzen, but I'm not convinced his 20+ regular season goals and "great" cap hit are all that special. Nyquist, Tatar, Sheahan, Jurco, maybe Pulkkinen, maybe Mantha, maybe a UFA (I like Pouliot), maybe Alfredsson, maybe Weiss - each of those would be good for a healthy number of goals next season. As for the cap hit...I mean, sure, $4M isn't bad. But compared to cost-controlled kids who can put up the same kind of numbers?

I guess one thing I really like about him is that it's one less top-six spot that a kid who may not be quite ready to put up big numbers has to hold down. Like, the kid line - they were so dominant largely because they weren't going up against the opposition's better players. But I feel like that's reaching.

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Just out of curiosity how do you measure "he plays/doesn't play defense" because the Franzen I see is better than average defensively for a winger.

Actually I'm in the same boat because I think Franzen is pretty solid as far as defense goes. He's not gonna win a Selke, but he's responsible.

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Franzen has not been a top 6 forward since 2009. Maybe on this team he ranks as a top 6 guy (until this season when the kids take over,) but around the league he is not. I am not blindfully hateful, just not wearing rose glasses.

he was chosen to be "The Man" over Hossa, and at first I was on board (mad we lost Hossa, but still on board.) He quickly turned into a pud after his "serious contract" and hasn't gotten anywhere near the power forward he was in 08-09. Holland gambled on him and he turned to mush. 1000% positive if Holland had an inkling of what Franzen would turn into, he would have signed Hossa.

Edited by LeftWinger

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YES!

When he isn't scoring he is doing NOTHING.

When vanek isn't scoring he still tries and outs pressure on the opposing team.

Did you watch Vanek much in the playoffs? When that guy wasn't scoring he was a detriment. While my feelings on Franzen are mixed, I do think he's pretty good defensively and a better playmaker than he gets credit for. Edited by Wheelchairsuperhero

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For a team without the winged wheel on its uniform.

Ditto. But would he do it? Or would he quit and go home? Keep in mind, most of his time missed last year wasn't because of an injury, it was because of his mental/emotional issues. Hurt feelings, sense of not being worthy, or whatever his stuff is (and I am not making light of mental health issues), which seems to flare up when we need him the most.

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LOL, "most of his time missed last year wasn't because of an injury"... You're kidding right?... So I guess that concussion he had was just an excuse for his "mental illness" right? This "mental/emotional issue" that you speak of is completely rumor based and pure speculation by some half ass beat writer. Have you ever heard this out of Johan's mouth or even out of the coaches or general managers mouth? If so, I would love to see a link. I don't believe that Franzen has any more s*** going on in the way of "hurt feeling" or social anxiety or the sort, more than any of the other billions in the world. Everyone has their s*** and Franzen is no different, but to say that he would quit his job because of this is absurd.

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LOL, "most of his time missed last year wasn't because of an injury"... You're kidding right?... So I guess that concussion he had was just an excuse for his "mental illness" right? This "mental/emotional issue" that you speak of is completely rumor based and pure speculation by some half ass beat writer. Have you ever heard this out of Johan's mouth or even out of the coaches or general managers mouth? If so, I would love to see a link. I don't believe that Franzen has any more s*** going on in the way of "hurt feeling" or social anxiety or the sort, more than any of the other billions in the world. Everyone has their s*** and Franzen is no different, but to say that he would quit his job because of this is absurd.

Actually Rich's statement was true. Franzen missed far too many games when not injured. I also don't want to downplay how serious mental issues can be, but as a hockey players who's getting paid millions to play, you have to push through whatever you're going through and play.

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Again, if you're going to state that he missed time while not being injured as fact, a link would help. Every game Franzen missed was due to injury. He missed over 20 games to a concussion, so unless you're saying that being concussed was the mental issue he was facing.....

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Franzen has not been a top 6 forward since 2009. Maybe on this team he ranks as a top 6 guy (until this season when the kids take over,) but around the league he is not. I am not blindfully hateful, just not wearing rose glasses.

he was chosen to be "The Man" over Hossa, and at first I was on board (mad we lost Hossa, but still on board.) He quickly turned into a pud after his "serious contract" and hasn't gotten anywhere near the power forward he was in 08-09. Holland gambled on him and he turned to mush. 1000% positive if Holland had an inkling of what Franzen would turn into, he would have signed Hossa.

How many teams have 6 players better than Franzen?

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LOL, "most of his time missed last year wasn't because of an injury"... You're kidding right?... So I guess that concussion he had was just an excuse for his "mental illness" right? This "mental/emotional issue" that you speak of is completely rumor based and pure speculation by some half ass beat writer. Have you ever heard this out of Johan's mouth or even out of the coaches or general managers mouth? If so, I would love to see a link. I don't believe that Franzen has any more s*** going on in the way of "hurt feeling" or social anxiety or the sort, more than any of the other billions in the world. Everyone has their s*** and Franzen is no different, but to say that he would quit his job because of this is absurd.

To debate the value of Franzen is fine, but to come on here and deny that Franzen has anxiety issues that yes he has, Holland has, his teammates, and every writer that covers the RW's all talk about makes you look a little naive or very new to the RW's team. These issues have been going on for years and have been talked about by EVERYONE for years. This is not something new.

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LeftWinger, start naming... I would love to hear them lol.

Richdg, I've been a Wings fan probably longer than you've been in this world but whatever. For the THIRD time, I would love to see a reputable source that has said that Franzen has a mental health issue, meaning a quote directly from Franzen himself. I highly doubt there is one. In fact, I've read an interview with Franzen where he was asked that specific question and he denied it, laughed and asked where people come up with their information, but I cannot come up with a link either so I guess I'm just as bad as yourself...

These issues have been rumored for years and I've yet to hear anyone part of the Wings organization address it directly.

And as I said before, even if he is going through some s***, how is that any different from the rest of us? To suggest he would quit his job is ridiculous...

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I know he went through a lot of anxiety issues when he first came over to North America but to say he is suffering from mental health issues is beyond me... But the biggest beef I have is that you think he will call his career quits because of this and that you claim that he wasn't injured this past season... Crazy

Edited by krsmith17

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To debate the value of Franzen is fine, but to come on here and deny that Franzen has anxiety issues that yes he has, Holland has, his teammates, and every writer that covers the RW's all talk about makes you look a little naive or very new to the RW's team. These issues have been going on for years and have been talked about by EVERYONE for years. This is not something new.

Really? Everyone's been talking about it for years?

I'd wager that 95% of the people here hadn't even heard mention of it until this year, and even most of those that read the 2009 article the speculation is based on had probably forgotten about it.

The whole thing started because Franzen gave a cryptic answer when asked about his injury, and some dips*** writer dug up a 4+ year old translated interview of Franzen talking about the social anxiety he dealt with early in his career in Sweden. Your assertion that his issues are affecting his game or causing him to miss time is 100% speculation.

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I know he went through a lot of anxiety issues when he first came over to North America but to say he is suffering from mental health issues is beyond me... But the biggest beef I have is that you think he will call his career quits because of this and that you claim that he wasn't injured this past season... Crazy

Predates that, since you asked here is some reading:

http://blog.mlive.com/snapshots/2009/11/aftonbladet_red_wings_forward.html

http://kuklaskorner.com/tmr/comments/addressing-speculation-regarding-johan-franzens-ailment

Now there are many other news reports, blogs, opinions by the beat writers etc.... That can be listed. It is fact that Franzen has social anxiety disorder. It is also fact that when he was out in Nov/Dec it WAS NOT DO TO A CONCUSSION. That happened later. It is true that no one knows for sure what was wrong with Franzen. Even he admitted he was sure if it was sickness, injury, mental or whatever.....

Really? Everyone's been talking about it for years?

I'd wager that 95% of the people here hadn't even heard mention of it until this year, and even most of those that read the 2009 article the speculation is based on had probably forgotten about it.

The whole thing started because Franzen gave a cryptic answer when asked about his injury, and some dips*** writer dug up a 4+ year old translated interview of Franzen talking about the social anxiety he dealt with early in his career in Sweden. Your assertion that his issues are affecting his game or causing him to miss time is 100% speculation.

Yes the story were he admitted it. Things like that don't go away. People learn to live with it, and from time to time fail and need to work on it again.

Yes people have talked about it with Franzen for years. hell last winter he was out, no one knew why-even he didn't. When asked if it was injury or sickness he answered "I don't know".

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To debate the value of Franzen is fine, but to come on here and deny that Franzen has anxiety issues that yes he has, Holland has, his teammates, and every writer that covers the RW's all talk about makes you look a little naive or very new to the RW's team. These issues have been going on for years and have been talked about by EVERYONE for years. This is not something new.

There have been talks of him having these issues in the past, but not while he missed time this past season.

Here are a couple articles:

http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/2014/01/30/report-franzen-concussion-to-miss-olympics/

http://www.mlive.com/redwings/index.ssf/2014/01/red_wings_johan_franzen_withdr.html

http://redwings.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=696164

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nhl/wings/2014/01/10/johan-franzen-concussion-recovery/4407405/

Edited by Rick D

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Lol he missed 4 games last Novemeber due to "illness" and you're going to assume it was due to his "mental health"... No, it absolutely couldn't have been a flu or anything of the sort, it had to be something "mental"... I'm well aware of those articles, I've read both, but where does that 2009 article state why he was out due to "mental illness" in 2013-14?...

I've watched close to every single Franzen interview since he entered the league and he tends to be quite the smart ass when answering questions, so I would be willing to bet his answer of "I don't know" when asked about why he was out of the lineup was just another smart ass remark, in other words, "no comment"...

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