The Franzen Hate.

[number9 3,297]

Predates that, since you asked here is some reading:

http://blog.mlive.com/snapshots/2009/11/aftonbladet_red_wings_forward.html

http://kuklaskorner.com/tmr/comments/addressing-speculation-regarding-johan-franzens-ailment

Now there are many other news reports, blogs, opinions by the beat writers etc.... That can be listed. It is fact that Franzen has social anxiety disorder. It is also fact that when he was out in Nov/Dec it WAS NOT DO TO A CONCUSSION. That happened later. It is true that no one knows for sure what was wrong with Franzen. Even he admitted he was sure if it was sickness, injury, mental or whatever.....

Yes the story were he admitted it. Things like that don't go away. People learn to live with it, and from time to time fail and need to work on it again.

Yes people have talked about it with Franzen for years. hell last winter he was out, no one knew why-even he didn't. When asked if it was injury or sickness he answered "I don't know".

Did you even read those articles? They are about his "boyhood" social anxiety, not last year. In fact the first makes it sound like coming to Detroit helped him grow out of his childhood shyness. Malik also clearly states that he cannot confirm Franzens current mental state or if he missed time due to it, only that he had social anxiety as a kid.

Did you think we didn't or wouldn't read those links? They don't prove your point whatsoever.

Your stats were an absolute joke too, but we'll ignore that won't we DG...

LeftWinger, list 6 guys better than Franzen on each team.

[Z Winged Dangler 2,082]

If Franzen wants to play in a hockey market that won't rag on him for disappearing for stretches where he can do his own thing on his own time, then please offer him in a trade to Florida for Nick Bjugstad.

[number9 3,297]

If Franzen wants to play in a hockey market that won't rag on him for disappearing for stretches where he can do his own thing on his own time, then please offer him in a trade to Florida for Nick Bjugstad.

Keyword IF. This is 100% speculation by fans based on his mental state in Sweden almost 10 years ago. He even stated that Detroit was different when he came over and gained a lot of confidence.

[GoWings1905 2,694]

I meant name the 6 players on these "30 teams"... Not name the 30 teams...

The Red Wings do, or are very close to that point forward wise.

[Buppy 1,720]

The Red Wings do, or are very close to that point forward wise.

Sure, considering the complete set of positive integers, 2 is certainly very close to 6.

[Euro_Twins 4,475]

Sure, considering the complete set of positive integers, 2 is certainly very close to 6.

Weiss is top 6 when healthy, nyquist has potential to be a solid top 6 . and that's all I got lol

[Guest DeGraa55]

Weiss is top 6 when healthy, nyquist has potential to be a solid top 6 . and that's all I got lol

But will he be after all his injuries? Will he ever be healthy? Betting a Stanley cup on it isn't a smart move.

This team needs two more top six players. A 2nd line center and a 1st line winger to go with z and dat.

Now maybe Weiss is the 2nd c maybe not. But I'd like some insurance personally. Cause I'm leaning towards the not. Hope I'm wrong though.

[GoWings1905 2,694]

Sure, considering the complete set of positive integers, 2 is certainly very close to 6.

Nyquist, Tatar, Jurco is close. Plus Weiss possibly, Mantha is coming. The Wings have cap space too. It's not just about Franzen this season, but the likely steeper decline to follow in years to come. Lose the buyout after this summer and then you are just stuck with Franzen.

[DickieDunn 2,571]

krsmith17.....do I really need to name them? I answered 30 teams have 6 guys that are better....so 30 teams means ALL....hell I will even say 31 teams and add in there Grand Rapids.

OK, what forwards on Columbus, Calgary, Florida, and Phoenix are better than Franzen? We'll start with those 4 teams.

[Euro_Twins 4,475]

OK, what forwards on Columbus, Calgary, Florida, and Phoenix are better than Franzen? We'll start with those 4 teams.

Hudler lol

[Buppy 1,720]

Nyquist, Tatar, Jurco is close. Plus Weiss possibly, Mantha is coming. The Wings have cap space too. It's not just about Franzen this season, but the likely steeper decline to follow in years to come. Lose the buyout after this summer and then you are just stuck with Franzen.

You're reaching and also changing the scope of the argument. Nyquist is not as good as Franzen. Tatar is way behind. Jurco is no where near close. Mantha has yet to play a pro game. Weiss, who knows.

Maybe all those guys will be better within a few years, maybe we'll sign a better UFA or make a trade. But right now, we have two forwards who are better than Franzen.

Might as well say Datsyuk doesn't belong in the NHL because in 5 years we'll likely have 14 forwards better than him.

[Shinzaki 72]

Our goal isn't to be better than Columbus or any other non Cup winning team...our goal is to be a Cup winning team. Would Franzen be top six on any of the four remaining teams? No. Dump him now when you can...I'd take a run at Iginla or Stasny in FA to pair with Z and Pavel and roll the kid line out as my second line. At least they're going to grow and improve and actually...you know..try.

I guess you put Franzen on a third line with Weiss and Helm...but why bother? He's just going to pout....I can handle Blue Suede ...Blue Swede? No thanks

[Richdg 267]

Franzen was 6th in goals this year at forward for our team. So there is 5 guys right there. Ok Alfie is not tech. a RW atm. So 4 plus mantha, plus whoever we draft in a couple weeks, plus guys like Helm, Abby, Sheahan, and Jurco. I wonder how many goals Pulkinnen scores playing 18 mins per night with Datsyuk?

[Richdg 267]

DD.....really? Ok here you go:

Doan

Boedker

Hanzel

Ribeiro

Vermette

Vrbata

Backlund

Monahan

Anisimov

Dubinsky

Foligno

Jenner

Johansen

Umberger

Barkov

Bjugstad

That is 16 guys right there and I am sure I missed a couple. All bring more to the game than Franzen does.

[Buppy 1,720]

Franzen was 6th in goals this year at forward for our team. So there is 5 guys right there. Ok Alfie is not tech. a RW atm. So 4 plus mantha, plus whoever we draft in a couple weeks, plus guys like Helm, Abby, Sheahan, and Jurco. I wonder how many goals Pulkinnen scores playing 18 mins per night with Datsyuk?

So you're saying Datsyuk was our 4th best forward, and Zetterberg 5th? Or are they also behind Mantha, etc.?

Honestly, I'm starting to think you just have a retarded nephew and you're trying to make him feel like a genius...

[Dabura 12,207]

This thread needs more joy.

[jimmyemeryhunter 2,747]

This thread needs more joy.

<img src="http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/140996314/Joy2.JPG&imgrefurl=https://twitter.com/JoyVBehar&h=561&w=441&tbnid=qcxw1D-psfRWRM:&zoom=1&q=joy+behar&docid=V-CwS0bAEmuyAM&hl=en&ei=KDWIU_GeI9aeyATZpIHgDA&tbm=isch&client=ms-android-verizon&ved=0CD0QMygAMAA"/>

Franzen is a top six forward, on every team.

Hes just not as consistent as Wed like.

And to whoever said vanek contributes when he's not scoring, he's lazier than Franzen on the defensive side...

Not as bad as ovechkin, but still, not good.

Edited May 30, 2014 by jimmyemeryhunter

[krsmith17 7,191]

DeGraa55 - Who is betting our Stanley Cup hopes on Weiss being healthy? I'm certainly not. He would definitely help the team if he is healthy, which I think he will, but no one ever said healthy Weiss = Stanley Cup, there are definitely a LOT of other factors. "This team needs two more top six players"... I don't agree with that at all. But aren't you one of the people that are advocating that we trade / buy-out / destroy Franzen (one of our top three forwards)?...

GoWings1905 - In my opinion our top six forward depth goes as follows (if everyone on our current roster is healthy...) Zetterberg, Datsyuk, Franzen, Weiss, Nyquist, Tatar... A lot of people are going to have a little bit of a different order there, but there is no way Franzen is behind all of those guys, plus a guy that has only played 36 games in the league (Jurco), plus a guy that has never played a game of pro yet, let alone an NHL game (Mantha). Sure, I think Nyquist, Jurco and Mantha all have potential to be better, but at this point they are not. I think most sane people would agree that Franzen is 3rd or 4th at worst, ranked forward on our depth chart...

Richdg - What is wrong with you? I don't get your logic whatsoever... Franzen was our 6th ranked forward just because he ranked 6th in goals? Even though he missed a huge chunk of the season. Even so, he did rank 6th so wouldn't the make him a top 6 on our team? And why are you only looking at goals anyway? He ranked 4th in points at forward, despite missing so much of the season...

Those 16 guys are all better than Franzen are they? LOL ok... I give up...

[Richdg 267]

Ksmith, yes they are all better than Franzen. In fact what would happen if we offered franzen for anyone of those guys in a straight up 1 for 1 deal? Earthquakes from the other team laughing so hard.

Why do I talk about goals with Franzen? because that is all he brings to the table. Some scoring. he isn't fast, doesn't hit, doesn't fight, below average defensively, he isn't a leader, not a play maker, so what does he bring? NOTHING! Other than a few goals in the 12-15 game stretch were he actually cares and is motivated.

[krsmith17 7,191]

The only reason any of those trades probably wouldn't go through is because of the length of the contract, nothing to do with the ability of each player. If you took the contract factor out of the equation, Franzen would get half of those players in a player for player trade.

The fact that you only take his goals into account is beyond ridiculous. His assists don't matter whatsoever right? His playmaking ability is vastly underrated by many on here and fact is if he never played a game in a Wings jersey, he played his whole career with Florida (or whatever team), he is the exact player people on here would be talking about trading for.

There are 20+ GM's that would love to have a player like Franzen on their team. He IS a top 6 forward in this league (top 3 on many teams), and I believe he has another 2-3 years of pretty solid production left in him yet.

But seems you only like talking about goals, here's a stat for you, Franzen scored 0.3 goals per game last season. There were only two players on your list that scored more goals per game then Franzen, Doan (0.33) and Johansen (0.4).

[Guest DeGraa55]

DeGraa55 - Who is betting our Stanley Cup hopes on Weiss being healthy? I'm certainly not. He would definitely help the team if he is healthy, which I think he will, but no one ever said healthy Weiss = Stanley Cup, there are definitely a LOT of other factors. "This team needs two more top six players"... I don't agree with that at all. But aren't you one of the people that are advocating that we trade / buy-out / destroy Franzen (one of our top three forwards)?...

GoWings1905 - In my opinion our top six forward depth goes as follows (if everyone on our current roster is healthy...) Zetterberg, Datsyuk, Franzen, Weiss, Nyquist, Tatar... A lot of people are going to have a little bit of a different order there, but there is no way Franzen is behind all of those guys, plus a guy that has only played 36 games in the league (Jurco), plus a guy that has never played a game of pro yet, let alone an NHL game (Mantha). Sure, I think Nyquist, Jurco and Mantha all have potential to be better, but at this point they are not. I think most sane people would agree that Franzen is 3rd or 4th at worst, ranked forward on our depth chart...

Richdg - What is wrong with you? I don't get your logic whatsoever... Franzen was our 6th ranked forward just because he ranked 6th in goals? Even though he missed a huge chunk of the season. Even so, he did rank 6th so wouldn't the make him a top 6 on our team? And why are you only looking at goals anyway? He ranked 4th in points at forward, despite missing so much of the season...

Those 16 guys are all better than Franzen are they? LOL ok... I give up...

This team NEEDS a second line center. Maybe Weiss becomes that maybe not. This team also NEEDS a shanahan type winger. An elite scorer that can also be somewhat physical and fights.

There's no one protecting our stars and there's no one that's a major scoring threat.

Now mantha projects to be that elite scorer but that won't be for a bit yet until it's proven and we need someone now.

We also don't NEED a top 4 defenseman cause they're set. We need a 5 and/or 6.

[Richdg 267]

The only reason any of those trades probably wouldn't go through is because of the length of the contract, nothing to do with the ability of each player. If you took the contract factor out of the equation, Franzen would get half of those players in a player for player trade.

The fact that you only take his goals into account is beyond ridiculous. His assists don't matter whatsoever right? His playmaking ability is vastly underrated by many on here and fact is if he never played a game in a Wings jersey, he played his whole career with Florida (or whatever team), he is the exact player people on here would be talking about trading for.

There are 20+ GM's that would love to have a player like Franzen on their team. He IS a top 6 forward in this league (top 3 on many teams), and I believe he has another 2-3 years of pretty solid production left in him yet.

But seems you only like talking about goals, here's a stat for you, Franzen scored 0.3 goals per game last season. There were only two players on your list that scored more goals per game then Franzen, Doan (0.33) and Johansen (0.4).

In the real world, the contract is very much part of the value of a player. In Franzens case his sucks and will continue to do so for 6 more years.

As for talent, I suggest you watch teams other than the RW's once in a while. ALL of the guys I listed are better players today, and most will be in the future as well, than Franzen is today-who will only continue to decline going forward.

As for money, it isn't mine. But I do care about the cap and its impact to add or keep talent in the future. We have one more chance to walk away from Franzen's contract with 0 penalties. That is this summer with a buyout, which is what Holland should do. I doubt he does that would be bold and require some guts. Something he seems to have lost late in his career.

[Son of a Wing 1,644]

In the real world, the contract is very much part of the value of a player. In Franzens case his sucks and will continue to do so for 6 more years.

As for talent, I suggest you watch teams other than the RW's once in a while. ALL of the guys I listed are better players today, and most will be in the future as well, than Franzen is today-who will only continue to decline going forward.

As for money, it isn't mine. But I do care about the cap and its impact to add or keep talent in the future. We have one more chance to walk away from Franzen's contract with 0 penalties. That is this summer with a buyout, which is what Holland should do. I doubt he does that would be bold and require some guts. Something he seems to have lost late in his career.

[Z Winged Dangler 2,082]

Sure, considering the complete set of positive integers, 2 is certainly very close to 6.

Z, Dats, Nyquist, Tatar, Sheahan, Jurco. All guys I'd put out before Franzen if we were down 1 with a minute to go.

[decorideas 0]

I tend to agree that Franzen is not anywhere near his potential. But he has played at a 60 pt per 82 game production level the last 4 yrs. The last two years he missed about half the season due to injuries. I can't quite see buying him out and replacing his production for the same amount of money unless you want to give the money to Nyquist (which he certainly deserves), but we already have Nyquist and we're going to keep him.

Could one of the kids give us the same production for the amount of time Franzen plays? Possibly. I've heard great stuff about Sheahan and Jurco. But are they ready?

The question for me is...... how much do we really believe our young kids will give us going forward? I'm talking about Sheahan, Jurco, Andersson, Teemu Pulkkinen, Tatar and, of course Nyquist. These guys need new contracts and they won't play for peanuts anymore. If we want to keep them, and I think we should (not totally convinced on Andersson yet), then let's sign them now for at least 3 or 4 years and get rid of Franzen.