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The Franzen Hate.


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#101 BuckeyeWingsfan80

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Posted 27 April 2014 - 09:44 AM

It's not hate if it's true.  No one is wishing injury or death (hopefully) - just that he goes away.


Don't take it from fans on LGW, take it from his peers. NHL players have spoken and they think Tootoo is the dirtiest player in the league.

Get a clue already.

#102 Red Crazy

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Posted 27 April 2014 - 10:02 AM

The big problem with Mule is he scores points in games that we already have won and he disappears in games that we need him in. The last 20 games of the reg season we needed him to be a leader and carry this team and he didn't show up. Same with the playoffs. If Franzen scored 30 goals in the first 6 games of the year and did nothing the rest of the year would it still be a good contract? nope. He needs to be traded. 



#103 Rivalred

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Posted 27 April 2014 - 10:04 AM

"Girls just want to have fun" song comes to mind when I hear about Franzen; old Mule hang been around for a while, Eyore on the other hand?
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#104 Euro_Twins

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Posted 27 April 2014 - 10:31 AM

I'm on board wearing the conductor hat on the franzen hate train now. He just seems not to be able to step up when it counts anymore. Use the buyout now while you still can and maybe we can get a young impact player with his money

#105 RedFlag85

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Posted 27 April 2014 - 10:44 AM

This playoff series was the last straw. Trade him if you can, buy him out if you can't.

Should be a no brainer. We'll see.

#106 number9

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Posted 27 April 2014 - 12:00 PM

41 pts in 54 gp for $4 mill is fine by me. Expecting Franzen to be our teams goal scoring X factor in most games is unrealistic IMO. He's a $4 million dollar player, not a $6 or a $7 million dollar player like Datsyuk and Zetterberg.

"But he could be so much better!"

No he can't. He's good for 50-60 pts a season and that's it. Expecting more bc of his brief 08-09 playoff streak is unfair.

#107 number9

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Posted 27 April 2014 - 12:10 PM

Filppula: on pace for 63 pts
Franzen: on pace for 62 pts

Fil costs about a million more than Franzen, so Tampa should buy him out right?

Franzen buy out a no brainer? U ppl live in a bizarre fantasy land
Hudler: on pace for 59 pts and he costs the same as Franzen. Calgary definitely going to buy him out too *rolls eyes*

#108 RedFlag85

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Posted 27 April 2014 - 12:20 PM

Fil is a Center, and a good bit younger than Franzen, plus, we let him walk, so I don't see why you're comparing the two.

Franzen is a lazy one dimensional player, and contrary to the Wings' system. I'd rather invest 4mil elswhere.

#109 GoWings1905

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Posted 27 April 2014 - 12:20 PM

41 pts in 54 gp for $4 mill is fine by me. Expecting Franzen to be our teams goal scoring X factor in most games is unrealistic IMO. He's a $4 million dollar player, not a $6 or a $7 million dollar player like Datsyuk and Zetterberg.

"But he could be so much better!"

No he can't. He's good for 50-60 pts a season and that's it. Expecting more bc of his brief 08-09 playoff streak is unfair.

One goal in 23 games, none in the playoffs. How can he possibly not do better than that? None of us expect him to be the Euro Twins. Franzen should be able to perform more consistently than he has, though. What else is he doing on the ice if he isn't scoring goals besides passing the puck up the middle to the wrong team?

Edited by GoWings1905, 27 April 2014 - 12:21 PM.

 
 
"To whom much is given, much is expected."
 
 

 

 

 

 


#110 Richdg

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Posted 27 April 2014 - 12:24 PM

Franzen or Lucic. Which would you rather have? Money is about the same, goals per year is about the same. Franzen can't be Lucic and that is who/what we need. But we get to watch Franzen for 6 more years! Ok maybe 2 more playing then pay for him for another 4. That 4 then becomes 8.



#111 darkmanx

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Posted 27 April 2014 - 12:26 PM

Filppula: on pace for 63 pts
Franzen: on pace for 62 pts

Fil costs about a million more than Franzen, so Tampa should buy him out right?

Franzen buy out a no brainer? U ppl live in a bizarre fantasy land
Hudler: on pace for 59 pts and he costs the same as Franzen. Calgary definitely going to buy him out too *rolls eyes*

 

Do you watch the games or do you look at the boxscores ?

 

Franzen made 3 bad turnovers yesterday, one of them cost us a goal the other two created odd man rushes the other way. Put Nyquist with Datsyuk and Zetterberg and he will outscore Franzen but play a complete game.



#112 Shinzaki

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Posted 27 April 2014 - 12:28 PM

Hockey isn't purely an exercise in statistics...you can't look at Franzen and say "he got us 41 pts...OK"    You have to look at the actual games.  He's shown NOTHING in the playoffs the last few years and his production in a major portion of the regular season was equally poor.   You simply cannot have a guy getting top six minutes sleepwalk through the majority of your games..   Send a message to the team about consistency of effort and dump him now...



#113 lomekian

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Posted 27 April 2014 - 12:49 PM

If you have all white collar workers, nothing gets done, despite a lot of conversation. If its all blue collar, there's plenty of sweat but often pointlessly.
 
Wings fans endless bitching online everywhere about Franzen is often missing the point. He's always been a bit floaty, and always been streaky, and has always been massively vulnerable to losses of confidence. But when he was having his good streaks in a better team at a better time, no-one minded. 
 
He's not the man to be THE guy. He's best as A guy, and at his cap hit, that's what he should be. People screaming lazyness are being stupid. You can't be an elite athlete in any sport if you are lazy. The management have always spoke of his professionalism. 
 
He just doesn't have a high enough compete or confidence levels to maximise his talents, and because he occasionally goes on incredible runs of form, people equate his off periods with a lack of effort. 
 
Apart from his first season as a 4th line scrub, he's always been a reasonably defensively responsible perimeter player with the size and skill to surprise. But after those two great playoff series, fans see him as first line power forward and judge him by those expectations. But despite showing the ability from time to time, he isn't that player. And never has been.
 
He's a shy team first guy, who doesn't deal with being in the spotlight, but as a 3rd wheel on a line with a shooter and a passer (preferably one with speed and the other with serious intensity) he can thrive. 
 
He's frustrating, disappointing and still very good in a secondary role. It really doesn't help that every time we see him get real chemistry on a line, Babcock breaks that line up. Maybe the coach can see the drop off coming, but he doesn't work with Dats or Helm very well, but does ok with Legwand and Zetterburg, and  definitely has chemistry with Nyquist. So he barely gets to play with them......
 
There is no doubt that his injury problems, particularly the resultant shying away from contact for a while, are a concern, but the guy still put up 40ish points in 50ish games on a depleted team...and his PPG rate in the playoffs was as good as anyone not named D or Z. 
 
But he's the scapegoat because our kids give us hope for the future, and our higher paid players have all been injured, and the others have proved their mediocrity over time. The guy makes less than Weiss, less than Legwand, marginally more than Quincy and not a lot more than Sammy, and yet he's a disaster. 
 
Guy's salary/PPG since his new contract is as good as anyone not on an ELC in that time.  And yet we should pay him 20m to go away to a rival team for nothing, while not yet having a replacement, because we are worried about a PPG decline that hasn't yet happened on a team that has spent the last 15 years specialising on squeezing the last drops out of aging pros. If it all goes **** up in 2-3 years, I'm sure we can do a deal to LTIR him.

Franzen or Lucic. Which would you rather have? Money is about the same, goals per year is about the same. Franzen can't be Lucic and that is who/what we need. But we get to watch Franzen for 6 more years! Ok maybe 2 more playing then pay for him for another 4. That 4 then becomes 8.

 

Lucic costs 50% more and players like him are pretty hard to get hold of in the first place.


 

Do you watch the games or do you look at the boxscores ?

 

Franzen made 3 bad turnovers yesterday, one of them cost us a goal the other two created odd man rushes the other way. Put Nyquist with Datsyuk and Zetterberg and he will outscore Franzen but play a complete game.

 

He also came close with 2 good scoring chances and forced 2 really good saves from Rask. But of course no-one else's turnovers count.

 

No-one is saying he is perfect. It just makes no strategic sense to get rid of him at this point unless something else is happening for sure.

 

People trying to turn this into a black or white either/or need to look at the reality. 


Hockey isn't purely an exercise in statistics...you can't look at Franzen and say "he got us 41 pts...OK"    You have to look at the actual games.  He's shown NOTHING in the playoffs the last few years and his production in a major portion of the regular season was equally poor.   You simply cannot have a guy getting top six minutes sleepwalk through the majority of your games..   Send a message to the team about consistency of effort and dump him now...

 

Until we have someone to replace him, someone has to score those points. Dead wood leaves, cap goes up and worst case scenario we're stuck with and over-priced 3rd liner who occasionally goes on good runs.



#114 number9

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Posted 27 April 2014 - 12:56 PM

Fil is a Center, and a good bit younger than Franzen, plus, we let him walk, so I don't see why you're comparing the two.

Franzen is a lazy one dimensional player, and contrary to the Wings' system. I'd rather invest 4mil elswhere.


Would you buyout a 50-60 pt player at 4 million?

#115 darkmanx

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Posted 27 April 2014 - 01:00 PM

 

If you have all white collar workers, nothing gets done, despite a lot of conversation. If its all blue collar, there's plenty of sweat but often pointlessly.
 
Wings fans endless bitching online everywhere about Franzen is often missing the point. He's always been a bit floaty, and always been streaky, and has always been massively vulnerable to losses of confidence. But when he was having his good streaks in a better team at a better time, no-one minded. 
 
He's not the man to be THE guy. He's best as A guy, and at his cap hit, that's what he should be. People screaming lazyness are being stupid. You can't be an elite athlete in any sport if you are lazy. The management have always spoke of his professionalism. 
 
He just doesn't have a high enough compete or confidence levels to maximise his talents, and because he occasionally goes on incredible runs of form, people equate his off periods with a lack of effort. 
 
Apart from his first season as a 4th line scrub, he's always been a reasonably defensively responsible perimeter player with the size and skill to surprise. But after those two great playoff series, fans see him as first line power forward and judge him by those expectations. But despite showing the ability from time to time, he isn't that player. And never has been.
 
He's a shy team first guy, who doesn't deal with being in the spotlight, but as a 3rd wheel on a line with a shooter and a passer (preferably one with speed and the other with serious intensity) he can thrive. 
 
He's frustrating, disappointing and still very good in a secondary role. It really doesn't help that every time we see him get real chemistry on a line, Babcock breaks that line up. Maybe the coach can see the drop off coming, but he doesn't work with Dats or Helm very well, but does ok with Legwand and Zetterburg, and  definitely has chemistry with Nyquist. So he barely gets to play with them......
 
There is no doubt that his injury problems, particularly the resultant shying away from contact for a while, are a concern, but the guy still put up 40ish points in 50ish games on a depleted team...and his PPG rate in the playoffs was as good as anyone not named D or Z. 
 
But he's the scapegoat because our kids give us hope for the future, and our higher paid players have all been injured, and the others have proved their mediocrity over time. The guy makes less than Weiss, less than Legwand, marginally more than Quincy and not a lot more than Sammy, and yet he's a disaster. 
 
Guy's salary/PPG since his new contract is as good as anyone not on an ELC in that time.  And yet we should pay him 20m to go away to a rival team for nothing, while not yet having a replacement, because we are worried about a PPG decline that hasn't yet happened on a team that has spent the last 15 years specialising on squeezing the last drops out of aging pros. If it all goes **** up in 2-3 years, I'm sure we can do a deal to LTIR him.

 

Lucic costs 50% more and players like him are pretty hard to get hold of in the first place.


 

He also came close with 2 good scoring chances and forced 2 really good saves from Rask. But of course no-one else's turnovers count.

 

No-one is saying he is perfect. It just makes no strategic sense to get rid of him at this point unless something else is happening for sure.

 

People trying to turn this into a black or white either/or need to look at the reality. 


 

Until we have someone to replace him, someone has to score those points. Dead wood leaves, cap goes up and worst case scenario we're stuck with and over-priced 3rd liner who occasionally goes on good runs.

 

 

Difference being, he was the reason a goal was scored on us in that game. Game might have been different if he actually tried to pass while skating instead of standing still.

 

I know i know, too much effort.



#116 number9

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Posted 27 April 2014 - 01:01 PM

One goal in 23 games, none in the playoffs. How can he possibly not do better than that? None of us expect him to be the Euro Twins. Franzen should be able to perform more consistently than he has, though. What else is he doing on the ice if he isn't scoring goals besides passing the puck up the middle to the wrong team?


Not one of the kids had a pt in the playoffs either, but they are cool and new unlike Franzen

#117 paulwoodsfan

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Posted 27 April 2014 - 01:05 PM

I think we should assume he will not be bought out. So the question, IMO, is what role should we ask him to fill? IMO we should put him back to what he was before his offensive breakout -- a checking-line guy (I prefer him at centre) who shadows the other team's big men (Getzlaf, Thornton et al) and kills penalties. He was very effective in that role and chipped in with the odd goal, including a series winner in OT when he was still a third- or fourth-liner. I think if he was returned to that role, he would not only excel in it, he would regain some of his lost confidence and he'd be worth most of the $4M he's going to collect each of the next six years. Any offence would be a bonus, but we'd stop relying on him to be a big scorer and put that mantle on younger players like Tatar, Nyquist and Mantha.



#118 number9

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Posted 27 April 2014 - 01:07 PM

 
Do you watch the games or do you look at the boxscores ?
 
Franzen made 3 bad turnovers yesterday, one of them cost us a goal the other two created odd man rushes the other way. Put Nyquist with Datsyuk and Zetterberg and he will outscore Franzen but play a complete game.


"Do u even watch the games bra?"

Everyone is quick to forget that Nyquist was invisible at the beginning of his season And pointless in these playoffs. I personally think Nyquist will be a great player one day, but that's just my amateur opinion. At this point in his career he's just as streaky as Franzen.

#119 nawein

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Posted 27 April 2014 - 01:09 PM

Not one of the kids had a pt in the playoffs either, but they are cool and new unlike Franzen


They also all make under 1 million and aren't 34 years old and declining.

Franzen can be an effective defensive forward good for 50 points a year but that's not what he's here for. He's here to be our goal scored and until he's gone people will get pissed when he doesn't score goals. The guy doesn't suck, he's just in the wrong role. Which is why I say we should trade him. Someone will give us something for him.

#120 Playmaker

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Posted 27 April 2014 - 01:10 PM

The thought of having to watch him for six more seasons....Ugh.  I've tried to look at the stats and think of the contract as a good value, but that damn lack of effort is so infuriating and frustrating, it's hard to tolerate any more.  I can forgive guys like Lashoff and Kindl who just don't have the talent, or even Cleary as you know he's giving an honest effort but his body is just so broken down, it can't do what he wants it to do.  

 

I have little hope that he'll be bought out and definitely won't be traded.  I think he just drags the whole team down.  Why would the coach need to have to talk to a long time veteran NHLer and ask him to do something?  That speaks volumes.  







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