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Wings will buy out Tootoo, not Franzen.


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#61 DeGraa55

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Posted 01 May 2014 - 05:00 PM

 
A clown?  :ninja:


Grow up? Just how pathetic how are you?

#62 marcaractac

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Posted 01 May 2014 - 05:02 PM

Grow up? Just how pathetic how are you?

 

Chill. It was a joke.



#63 GoWings1905

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Posted 01 May 2014 - 05:03 PM

 
Every player makes mistakes. Obviously some more noticeable than others. Datsyuk turned the puck over a few times in the series as well. Do we hate him now to? Face it. Hating on Mule is the hip thing to do right now. Cleary and Sammy haven't been playing, so there had to be someone else to blame for all the teams problems. Franzen worked hard in that series. But because he didn't score, he will be seen as lazy. There has been times in his career he has no doubt not worked hard. These playoffs were NOT one of them. 


Pav scored three goals in five games too. If Franzen was doing other things in the series, then OK, maybe I can overlook a very inopportune turnover. What other conclusion could people draw from Franzen if he isn't scoring? He doesn't kill penalties, isn't physical and doesn't set his teammates up for scoring chances either. Despite his whining to the media, Franzen's one job on this team is to put the puck in the net. One goal in 23 games -- there's an effort problem involved in that for a player that logs as many minutes as Franzen, yet contributes nothing else while being on the ice.

I've given Franzen the benefit of the doubt before, but he has been a bum in the playoffs for four years now. Playoff Franzen isn't suddenly going to reappear with age and an already questionable work ethic. Franzen gets all of this backlash because he earned it; not due to Cleary and Sammy no longer being around.
 
 
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#64 marcaractac

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Posted 01 May 2014 - 05:06 PM

Pav scored three goals in five games too. If Franzen was doing other things in the series, then OK, maybe I can overlook a very inopportune turnover. What other conclusion could people draw from Franzen if he isn't scoring? He doesn't kill penalties, isn't physical and doesn't set his teammates up for scoring chances either. Despite his whining to the media, Franzen's one job on this team is to put the puck in the net. One goal in 23 games -- there's an effort problem involved in that for a player that logs as many minutes as Franzen, yet contributes nothing else while being on the ice.

I've given Franzen the benefit of the doubt before, but he has been a bum in the playoffs for four years now. Playoff Franzen isn't suddenly going to reappear with age and an already questionable work ethic. Franzen gets all of this backlash because he earned it; not due to Cleary and Sammy no longer being around.

 

I'm not sticking up for Franzen by any means. I'd like to see him replaced. But until there is someone to replace him, we kind of need him. For depth. Also, he isn't solely here to put the puck in the net. He is also here to be responsible defensively. Outside of that unfortunate turnover, he has been. If Franzen was getting paid to be a danger to put the puck in every single night, he would be making more money than he is now. That I can guarantee you. 



#65 Bannedforlife

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Posted 01 May 2014 - 05:09 PM

 
A clown?  :ninja:

Hahaha classic!

#66 Detroit # 1 Fan

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Posted 01 May 2014 - 05:12 PM

I didn't honestly expect him to be bought out, but hoped. As long as he isn't on the team come the fall I'll be happy, I don't give a s*** about his cap hit, or his production. At the end of the day, he's a lazy guy who's a monster on the ice and is softer then Hudler. That little midget got in peoples faces and tried to play a heavy game despite being 5'8, Franzen can't be bothered to finish more then a check per game, even in the playoffs. Great he scores 8 goals in a 3 game span and then has 1 the next 25, I'd rather have a guy who scores less and brings some energy or ANYTHING else. Watching clips of Franzen from the Cup runs in 08 and 09, and even to a degree 10 and 11, he's a different guy. The last 3 years he might score goals, but watching him play makes me ill.


#NOMOREKINDL


#67 FlashyG

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Posted 01 May 2014 - 05:36 PM

Pav scored three goals in five games too. If Franzen was doing other things in the series, then OK, maybe I can overlook a very inopportune turnover. What other conclusion could people draw from Franzen if he isn't scoring? He doesn't kill penalties, isn't physical and doesn't set his teammates up for scoring chances either. Despite his whining to the media, Franzen's one job on this team is to put the puck in the net. One goal in 23 games -- there's an effort problem involved in that for a player that logs as many minutes as Franzen, yet contributes nothing else while being on the ice.

I've given Franzen the benefit of the doubt before, but he has been a bum in the playoffs for four years now. Playoff Franzen isn't suddenly going to reappear with age and an already questionable work ethic. Franzen gets all of this backlash because he earned it; not due to Cleary and Sammy no longer being around.

Franzen was the only player on the team I saw put Lucic on his backside, he led all forwards in blocked shots, he had twice as many takeaways than giveaways and set up all kinds of scoring chances that didn't get buried.

There was bad too, he took a lot of bad shots, the turnover's he had ended up in our net and he couldn't bury any of the chances he had, but he wasn't close to the worst forward for the Wings during that series.



#68 PavelValerievichDatsyuk

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Posted 01 May 2014 - 06:21 PM

Franzen had some very good stretches this year. I'm not a big fan of his or anything like that, but I think it's interesting that no one wants to give him any slack given that he was out for significant time with a concussion. He still put up 41 pts in 54 games.

 

I really don't want to start up the Hossa vs. Franzen debate, but I checked out the salary situations since others were bringing up Hossa name again. At the end of his deal in 2020-21, Hossa is going to be a 42 year old with a 5.2 million cap hit. Franzen will 40 at the end of his deal in 2019-20 with a 3.9 cap hit. Both of those deals will include a feeling of regret to some degree in the last couple of years. Draw your own conclusions for which one would be worse to be tied to.

 

Jagr is 42 and Selanne is 43, but its rare to as effective at that age as those two and both had a cap hit of 2 million. (yes, jagr's deal had some deferred bonuses or something)



#69 rking72

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Posted 01 May 2014 - 06:49 PM

Franzen had some very good stretches this year. I'm not a big fan of his or anything like that, but I think it's interesting that no one wants to give him any slack given that he was out for significant time with a concussion. He still put up 41 pts in 54 games.

 

I really don't want to start up the Hossa vs. Franzen debate, but I checked out the salary situations since others were bringing up Hossa name again. At the end of his deal in 2020-21, Hossa is going to be a 42 year old with a 5.2 million cap hit. Franzen will 40 at the end of his deal in 2019-20 with a 3.9 cap hit. Both of those deals will include a feeling of regret to some degree in the last couple of years. Draw your own conclusions for which one would be worse to be tied to.

 

Jagr is 42 and Selanne is 43, but its rare to as effective at that age as those two and both had a cap hit of 2 million. (yes, jagr's deal had some deferred bonuses or something)

I think the Hawks may buy Hossa out this off-season



#70 FlashyG

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Posted 01 May 2014 - 07:03 PM

I think the Hawks may buy Hossa out this off-season

 

They can't they already used both their compliance buyouts on Montador and Olesz.

 

They're certainly not going to use a regular buyout on him and find themselves paying him for the next 2 decades while playing with 5.5 million dollars missing from their cap space for 4 of those years



#71 GoWings1905

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Posted 01 May 2014 - 09:31 PM

Franzen had some very good stretches this year. I'm not a big fan of his or anything like that, but I think it's interesting that no one wants to give him any slack given that he was out for significant time with a concussion. He still put up 41 pts in 54 games.
 
I really don't want to start up the Hossa vs. Franzen debate, but I checked out the salary situations since others were bringing up Hossa name again. At the end of his deal in 2020-21, Hossa is going to be a 42 year old with a 5.2 million cap hit. Franzen will 40 at the end of his deal in 2019-20 with a 3.9 cap hit. Both of those deals will include a feeling of regret to some degree in the last couple of years. Draw your own conclusions for which one would be worse to be tied to.
 
Jagr is 42 and Selanne is 43, but its rare to as effective at that age as those two and both had a cap hit of 2 million. (yes, jagr's deal had some deferred bonuses or something)


You don't worry about what the players are going to be like at 40 or 42 with those long-term contracts. I will take Hossa being the far superior player going forward and when the deals were signed in 2009. I regret the Franzen signing in 2014, let alone what he might be doing six years from now.
 
 
"To whom much is given, much is expected."
 
 

 

 

 

 


#72 RedFlag85

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Posted 01 May 2014 - 09:32 PM

Good luck, 22! Love your competitive spirit.

This. A Warrior through, and through.

#73 Playmaker

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Posted 02 May 2014 - 11:25 AM

 

It is still 1.9 million dollars ownership would have to pay to a guy to not play in the NHL.

 

I get the frustration for Mule. I don't think he is nearly as bad as some make him out to be, however. In the end, the only issue with him is if the team is in a situation to depend on his scoring. If the top 6 is solidified, he is still a defensive forward who can put the puck in the net. As long as he plays responsible while he is cold, and we have plenty of other secondary scoring, having him around will be fine. I'd love to see him parking in front of the net on the pp. Back in 2008, doing that was what set him on fire scoring-wise to begin with. Maybe it is just a matter of going back to basics with him. Also a good way to have a role for him when his abilities do start to decline. If memory serves me right, he was more than adequate when it came to deflecting the puck in front of the net. 


 

Who does he play in place of then? Tootoo can't even crack the Griffins lineup. His only shot to play in the NHL is to play on a basement team who can use a guy like that to keep the fans entertained. Not a knock on Tootoo. I like the guy. There is just nowhere for him here.

This season, there was less of a place for him.  But last year, I think there was more of an opportunity to get him into the lineup.  I think Cleary played in every game in the shortened season (and not well in most of them).  Sammy got in some games, so did Bertuzzi.  I don't think him playing in place of any of those guys would have been a travesty.  I really hated the signing when it happened and never was a Tootoo fan, but at this point, I just feel bad that they guy signed a deal thinking he was going to get a good opportunity, and to me, he never really did.  Not sure if there was something behind the scenes that was going on or what, but the whole situation was just strange from the get go.



#74 FlashyG

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Posted 02 May 2014 - 04:11 PM

This season, there was less of a place for him.  But last year, I think there was more of an opportunity to get him into the lineup.  I think Cleary played in every game in the shortened season (and not well in most of them).  Sammy got in some games, so did Bertuzzi.  I don't think him playing in place of any of those guys would have been a travesty.  I really hated the signing when it happened and never was a Tootoo fan, but at this point, I just feel bad that they guy signed a deal thinking he was going to get a good opportunity, and to me, he never really did.  Not sure if there was something behind the scenes that was going on or what, but the whole situation was just strange from the get go.

 

Tootoo played almost every game last season. He had a chance to keep a spot in the line-up but he didn't seem to gel with Babcock's system. It shows even further now that he's struggling to crack the line-up under the same system in Grand Rapids.



#75 Echolalia

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Posted 02 May 2014 - 04:57 PM

 
Tootoo played almost every game last season. He had a chance to keep a spot in the line-up but he didn't seem to gel with Babcock's system. It shows even further now that he's struggling to crack the line-up under the same system in Grand Rapids.

Its all speculation on my end but I think it comes down to his run and gun style of play. Tootoo is about opportunistic hits, and that typically presents itself in the corners in the offensive zone. Tootoo goes for the big hit, and potentially takes himself out of the play (even if for a moment). The crowd is cheering cuz Toots is loose, but Babcock only sees the opposition breaking out of their zone, and Tootoo is behind the play. It's a 4 on 4, or 4 on 3 coming into our zone. I don't know what Babcock's role for Tootoo was, but I can only imagine that it involved playing with defense in mind. The players who typically persist on Babcock's fourth line (or anywhere in the lineup, really) are the ones who battle well along the boards and eat up time, but don't get lost on the play or caught deep when the puck is coming back into our zone. When they lose possession they back off and clog the neutral zone and backcheck hard, they don't go for the big hit when it takes them out of the play, and doesn't prevent the breakout either.
I don't know the exact reason why Tootoo couldn't maintain a spot in the lineup but I suspect it has to do with the above.

#76 themcityblues

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Posted 02 May 2014 - 10:20 PM

Pay a guy $4 mil over two seasons to play for you.  Said player brings exactly what everybody expected.  Play him for 11 games.  Send him down to the juniors.  Buy out his contract.

 

Similar retardedness with Samuelsson.  Why the hell is this guy even picking up the washed up baggage from these teams, paying them millions, playing them next to little, and then buying out their contracts?

 

This is Ken Holland.


Edited by themcityblues, 02 May 2014 - 10:43 PM.


#77 Krayzie_Bone

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Posted 03 May 2014 - 03:39 PM

People really thought Franzen was going to get bought out? More important IMO is not resigning cleary, alfredson, bertuzzi and obviously sammy.


Edited by Krayzie_Bone, 03 May 2014 - 03:41 PM.


#78 LeftWinger

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Posted 03 May 2014 - 06:16 PM

we all agree Franzen needs to go. We all know he won't be bought out or anything. Holland is gonna go to his death never admitting the mistake of re-signing him. Its too bad, because even on the 3rd line he is taking up a roster spot that someone better should be in.

 

I am still holding out hope for a trade, but that's all it is. Hope...


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#79 lomekian

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Posted 03 May 2014 - 07:39 PM

 

I'm not sticking up for Franzen by any means. I'd like to see him replaced. But until there is someone to replace him, we kind of need him. For depth. Also, he isn't solely here to put the puck in the net. He is also here to be responsible defensively. Outside of that unfortunate turnover, he has been. If Franzen was getting paid to be a danger to put the puck in every single night, he would be making more money than he is now. That I can guarantee you. 

This is pretty much exactly what I got taken apart for saying in the other thread, but with slightly more positivity. No point paying a guy 20m to go away when he can still contribute to some degree and we have no one ready to replace him yet. . His cap hit is representative of the player he is, and to date has been pretty good value. Franzen in beast mode all the time would be a 6-7m player, no problem.


Franzen was the only player on the team I saw put Lucic on his backside, he led all forwards in blocked shots, he had twice as many takeaways than giveaways and set up all kinds of scoring chances that didn't get buried.

There was bad too, he took a lot of bad shots, the turnover's he had ended up in our net and he couldn't bury any of the chances he had, but he wasn't close to the worst forward for the Wings during that series.

 

Ah yes....factual information! How dare some one use statistical analysis to counter gut feeling, emotional reactions and fan logic of visible effort = more contribution. People have even wanted Tootoo ahead of him because he hits and fights....and does almost nothing else. Sure, a skilled guy who works his ass off is better than one that doesn't, but a skilled guy with variable effort levels is often better than a no-skill guy that tries as hard as he can......


This. A Warrior through, and through.

Despite my earlier comment, I really wanted Tootoo to succeed here, but ultimately he's not good enough for a team aspiring to play any sort of possession game, either skill wise or tactically. His signing made a lot of sense, but it didn't work for either party, and if his time in Grand Rapids shows us anything, he really needs a change of scenery asap.



#80 Euro_Twins

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Posted 03 May 2014 - 07:56 PM

we all agree Franzen needs to go. We all know he won't be bought out or anything. Holland is gonna go to his death never admitting the mistake of re-signing him. Its too bad, because even on the 3rd line he is taking up a roster spot that someone better should be in.
 
I am still holding out hope for a trade, but that's all it is. Hope...


We get it. You don't like franzen. But as has been pointed out previously hossa was offered a contract first and wanted to hold out for More money. Franzen was the backup plan.





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