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Wings will buy out Tootoo, not Franzen.


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#101 LeftWinger

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Posted 04 May 2014 - 10:24 PM

Son of a Wing, I never said that signing BOTH Hossa and Franzen would have been a bad idea (if they could have fit it under the cap) that meant NOT losing Hossa, but when Holland low-balled Hossa in order to keep Franzen and offer Hudler a contract, we ended up with "The Choice" which I hated from day 1.  Having the 2009 Franzen AND Hossa would have been great back then. Then when Franzen went into his decline, we still would have had Hossa and the useless Franzen would have been (and still been) an after thought.  If you read the quotes you found from me they ALL say Hossa AND Franzen, none of them say Ya! Franzen! Yippee! Sign Franzen only! PLUS ALL of them say BYE BYE Hudler! So no, I am not trying to convince myself.  I would have been fine with BOTH, but when the money wasn't there, the obvious choice was Hossa, but Holland chose the lessor talent and that is when I really became critical of Franzen.  He was chosen over Hossa to be our sniper...our 40 goal scorer.  I said it back then AFTER Hossa left that Franzen will never be our sniper and is never did become it.

 

Buppy - The offer for Hudler was there, Holland offered the then RFA somewhere around $3M-ish, and Hudler declined and opted for Russia, then the arbitrator ruled that Hudler would get $2.9M-ish IIRC. Look it up and get the facts instead of just attacking somebody. Just Google it.  "Holland offers RFA Hudler contract"  its right there. My cut and paste isn't working or I would paste the link and the quote, but Holland offered Hudler a 5 year $15M contract...so, no I am not just making things up.  If Holland had said see ya to Hudler, then he could have possibly added that $3M to a better offer for Hossa...

 

...so, in the end, after he lowballed Hossa, he paid Franzen $3.9M and was offering Hudler $3M...do the math, that's $6.9M together. MORE than enough to keep Hossa, he is making what, $5.2M in Chicago? He is still in the playoffs and has 2 Cups since he left...and we had Hudler and we have Franzen...pardon me if I'm just a bit upset. And pardon me if I don't have a little "I told you so" coming our right now.  I am glad most people are FINALLY turning on him now...just like they turned on Hudler.

 

I don't care how, but Franzen needs to be gone.  If not buyout then trade.  Will it happen? 99% not, but I will hope and hope until it does or until he retires...either way, one day he will be gone...and more than likely in more of a disgraceful manner than he is in now.


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#102 number9

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Posted 04 May 2014 - 10:44 PM

Son of a Wing, I never said that signing BOTH Hossa and Franzen would have been a bad idea (if they could have fit it under the cap) that meant NOT losing Hossa, but when Holland low-balled Hossa in order to keep Franzen and offer Hudler a contract, we ended up with "The Choice" which I hated from day 1.  Having the 2009 Franzen AND Hossa would have been great back then. Then when Franzen went into his decline, we still would have had Hossa and the useless Franzen would have been (and still been) an after thought.  If you read the quotes you found from me they ALL say Hossa AND Franzen, none of them say Ya! Franzen! Yippee! Sign Franzen only! PLUS ALL of them say BYE BYE Hudler! So no, I am not trying to convince myself.  I would have been fine with BOTH, but when the money wasn't there, the obvious choice was Hossa, but Holland chose the lessor talent and that is when I really became critical of Franzen.  He was chosen over Hossa to be our sniper...our 40 goal scorer.  I said it back then AFTER Hossa left that Franzen will never be our sniper and is never did become it.
 
Buppy - The offer for Hudler was there, Holland offered the then RFA somewhere around $3M-ish, and Hudler declined and opted for Russia, then the arbitrator ruled that Hudler would get $2.9M-ish IIRC. Look it up and get the facts instead of just attacking somebody. Just Google it.  "Holland offers RFA Hudler contract"  its right there. My cut and paste isn't working or I would paste the link and the quote, but Holland offered Hudler a 5 year $15M contract...so, no I am not just making things up.  If Holland had said see ya to Hudler, then he could have possibly added that $3M to a better offer for Hossa...
 
...so, in the end, after he lowballed Hossa, he paid Franzen $3.9M and was offering Hudler $3M...do the math, that's $6.9M together. MORE than enough to keep Hossa, he is making what, $5.2M in Chicago? He is still in the playoffs and has 2 Cups since he left...and we had Hudler and we have Franzen...pardon me if I'm just a bit upset. And pardon me if I don't have a little "I told you so" coming our right now.  I am glad most people are FINALLY turning on him now...just like they turned on Hudler.
 
I don't care how, but Franzen needs to be gone.  If not buyout then trade.  Will it happen? 99% not, but I will hope and hope until it does or until he retires...either way, one day he will be gone...and more than likely in more of a disgraceful manner than he is in now.


"Hated the signing from day one"

"Franzen at any expense"

"Re-sign Franzen long term"

SOW did his HW. Quit back peddling.

#103 matthewdanna

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Posted 05 May 2014 - 12:27 AM

I hate Hossa. Always have, always will.



#104 LeftWinger

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Posted 05 May 2014 - 06:17 AM

...like I said BOTH long term would've been good at the time. Even then I preferred Hossa over Franzen. When Holland didn't sign both and chose Franzen, I was pissed. Nobody can say that's not the truth. I hated the choice from day one. No back peddling on that fact. Holland couldn't pay Hossa because he was holding money aside for Hudler. Whom I had also a hatred for, something else nobody can argue against.

 

 

Signing both at the time was the ideal situation, even though Franzen would've still turned into what he is now. I didn't hate him back then, but ALWAYS was in Hossa's court when it came to choosing one over the other. That's all. Facts are facts. I am just glad Franzen s*** the bed again so I can continue to say how much he sucks and sucks and sucks. Thanks guys for refueling the fire!

 

Buying out Tootoo instead of Franzen will be the worst decision Holland will make, Franzen will be hurt again next season and continue to play like garbage.


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#105 Z Winged Dangler

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Posted 05 May 2014 - 06:26 AM

Buyout Franzen you jackass Holland! Use a ordinary buyout on Tootoo if you must, but GD it all to hell! BUYOUT FRANZEN! You are stuck in the mud with him on your team!

I actually agree with that completely.  An ordinary buyout on Tootoo wouldn't cost too much and it's over 2 years I believe, and Franzen's streakiness is getting old and very frustrating.  He's a fan favorite for 15 games out of 82 and the other batch he's invisible trash.  I'm with you LeftWinger....buy them both out.  It'll give Holland money to go after a legit top 6 winger that wants to play 82 + playoffs every year.


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#106 DickieDunn

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Posted 05 May 2014 - 07:08 AM

Borg were offered contracts. Hossa wanted time to think and negotiate. Franzen was willing to sign. You don't sign him, you risk losing both. The only thing that makes Franzen's deal bad is the recap penalty which A) didn't exist at the time and B ) length is an issue with Hossa's deal too.

Edited by DickieDunn, 05 May 2014 - 07:09 AM.

Oh this young man has had a very trying rookie season, with the litigation, the notoriety, his subsequent deportation to Canada and that country's refusal to accept him, well, I guess that's more than most 21-year-olds can handle... Ogie Ogilthorpe!


#107 number9

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Posted 05 May 2014 - 10:10 AM

...like I said BOTH long term would've been good at the time. Even then I preferred Hossa over Franzen. When Holland didn't sign both and chose Franzen, I was pissed. Nobody can say that's not the truth. I hated the choice from day one. No back peddling on that fact. Holland couldn't pay Hossa because he was holding money aside for Hudler. Whom I had also a hatred for, something else nobody can argue against.
 
 
Signing both at the time was the ideal situation, even though Franzen would've still turned into what he is now. I didn't hate him back then, but ALWAYS was in Hossa's court when it came to choosing one over the other. That's all. Facts are facts. I am just glad Franzen s*** the bed again so I can continue to say how much he sucks and sucks and sucks. Thanks guys for refueling the fire!
 
Buying out Tootoo instead of Franzen will be the worst decision Holland will make, Franzen will be hurt again next season and continue to play like garbage.


So if Chi buys out Hossa and we sign him you'll be completely ok with Franzen again.....?

#108 Euro_Twins

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Posted 05 May 2014 - 10:22 AM

So if Chi buys out Hossa and we sign him you'll be completely ok with Franzen again.....?


He was also Pissed we lost Quincey at the time too... So whatever

#109 Bannedforlife

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Posted 05 May 2014 - 11:04 AM

Borg were offered contracts. Hossa wanted time to think and negotiate. Franzen was willing to sign. You don't sign him, you risk losing both. The only thing that makes Franzen's deal bad is the recap penalty which A) didn't exist at the time and B ) length is an issue with Hossa's deal too.

That's not how it happened. It was absolutely an A or B choice, and Holland went with B



#110 Jesusberg

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Posted 05 May 2014 - 11:08 AM

As much as the guy frustrates me, I don't see how you just replace his points - especially with the lack of offense being generated from the D. He's not a 1st line guy, but he's a solid top 6 forward. It just pains people to watch him float and cool off for the long stretches that he does. Buying out Tootoo is the right move, and it allows him to find a job elsewhere.



#111 Buppy

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Posted 05 May 2014 - 11:12 AM

...

 

Buppy - The offer for Hudler was there, Holland offered the then RFA somewhere around $3M-ish, and Hudler declined and opted for Russia, then the arbitrator ruled that Hudler would get $2.9M-ish IIRC. Look it up and get the facts instead of just attacking somebody. Just Google it.  "Holland offers RFA Hudler contract"  its right there. My cut and paste isn't working or I would paste the link and the quote, but Holland offered Hudler a 5 year $15M contract...so, no I am not just making things up.  If Holland had said see ya to Hudler, then he could have possibly added that $3M to a better offer for Hossa...

 

...

Like I said, even if the offer was real the cap space wasn't there. He could have offered Hudler $300M. No matter what, keeping Hossa would have meant losing someone else on the team (and Hudler wasn't, the first year). 

 

Fact is, Hossa has produced 28g and 72p over Franzen in 5 years. 5-6g, 14-15p per year for an extra $1.3M in cap and two extra years of length. Franzen is far, far closer to Hossa than you or many others would like to believe. 



#112 Euro_Twins

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Posted 05 May 2014 - 01:15 PM

Like I said, even if the offer was real the cap space wasn't there. He could have offered Hudler $300M. No matter what, keeping Hossa would have meant losing someone else on the team (and Hudler wasn't, the first year). 
 
Fact is, Hossa has produced 28g and 72p over Franzen in 5 years. 5-6g, 14-15p per year for an extra $1.3M in cap and two extra years of length. Franzen is far, far closer to Hossa than you or many others would like to believe. 


Yup a 15 points a year guy might cost about $1.5 million so it's pretty safe to say the cap hit is pretty similar in terms of production

#113 LeftWinger

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Posted 05 May 2014 - 04:43 PM

Hey Euro, please tell me where I was pissed we lost Quincey....please. I truly have no clue as to what you are talking about. 


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#114 Euro_Twins

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Posted 05 May 2014 - 07:42 PM

I may have jumped the gun a bit, but you definitely didn't sound happy about losing him

In this cap world, the kids are going to have to be here soon (or risk losing them like Quincey)



#115 mackel

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Posted 05 May 2014 - 08:10 PM

Like I said, even if the offer was real the cap space wasn't there. He could have offered Hudler $300M. No matter what, keeping Hossa would have meant losing someone else on the team (and Hudler wasn't, the first year). 
 
Fact is, Hossa has produced 28g and 72p over Franzen in 5 years. 5-6g, 14-15p per year for an extra $1.3M in cap and two extra years of length. Franzen is far, far closer to Hossa than you or many others would like to believe. 


What seems to get lost when people look at the stat lines on the back of these players hockey cards is the context of the production.

Hossa is a game breaker, he can and often does for Chicago have a great shift... Make something happen, ie score, setup a goal, hold the puck down low, play hard defensively etc.

Franzen, he floats, gives the puck away, won't throw the body, and puts up points in bunches... Especially when a game is effectively either already won or lost.

Bottom line I'd rather have Hossa get a goal in a tight game than have Franzen who scores a goal to make the score 5-2 in a loss.

#116 Furled Brow

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Posted 05 May 2014 - 08:19 PM

Like I said, even if the offer was real the cap space wasn't there. He could have offered Hudler $300M. No matter what, keeping Hossa would have meant losing someone else on the team (and Hudler wasn't, the first year). 
 
Fact is, Hossa has produced 28g and 72p over Franzen in 5 years. 5-6g, 14-15p per year for an extra $1.3M in cap and two extra years of length. Franzen is far, far closer to Hossa than you or many others would like to believe. 


He also helped produce 2 cups. That's what matters most, rt? Franzen doesn't seem to impact the team as positively.

#117 LeftWinger

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Posted 05 May 2014 - 09:05 PM

lest we forget Franzen often leads the team in GWG...you know the games that he scores the 6th goal to go up 6-1 and then when they barely hang on to a 6-5 win.  Clutch....clutch I tell you. So glad Franzen in a Wing and we had Hudler for a bit....they are so much better than Hossa.  Heck, may as well buyout Zetterberg instead of Franzen, Franzen is the second coming of Fedorov, don't you all remember he had a 5 goal game one time.


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#118 Euro_Twins

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Posted 05 May 2014 - 09:32 PM

lest we forget Franzen often leads the team in GWG...you know the games that he scores the 6th goal to go up 6-1 and then when they barely hang on to a 6-5 win.  Clutch....clutch I tell you. So glad Franzen in a Wing and we had Hudler for a bit....they are so much better than Hossa.  Heck, may as well buyout Zetterberg instead of Franzen, Franzen is the second coming of Fedorov, don't you all remember he had a 5 goal game one time.

 

 

only you could spin leading a team in gwg into a bad thing...



#119 DeGraa55

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Posted 05 May 2014 - 09:45 PM

 
 
only you could spin leading a team in gwg into a bad thing...


Even though he has a point. Close games and he seems more invisible.

#120 Buppy

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Posted 05 May 2014 - 09:53 PM

What seems to get lost when people look at the stat lines on the back of these players hockey cards is the context of the production.

Hossa is a game breaker, he can and often does for Chicago have a great shift... Make something happen, ie score, setup a goal, hold the puck down low, play hard defensively etc.

Franzen, he floats, gives the puck away, won't throw the body, and puts up points in bunches... Especially when a game is effectively either already won or lost.

Bottom line I'd rather have Hossa get a goal in a tight game than have Franzen who scores a goal to make the score 5-2 in a loss.

 

Typical. Stats don't say what you want, so you resort to something less quantifiable.

 

Well, Franzen's advanced stats are also comparable to Hossa's. Giveaway numbers are similar (though Hossa does get far more takeaways), hits are similar. I won't dig through the numbers again (you could probably find something in my post history), but Franzen is not unusually streaky. No more prone to hot or cold streaks than other 25-35g scorers (including Hossa).

 

As far as tight games, I strongly suspect you're just talking out of your ass there, and you have idea what the real tendencies are. I would assume you're wrong, and both players have a fairly even distribution of game situations they've scored in. NHL.com has all the game logs though, so you're welcome to try to prove that point.







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