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Regner: Next year could be Babcock's last


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#121 Euro_Twins

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Posted 23 May 2014 - 03:44 PM

So, assuming you've had the same job since 2010 as well, have you received any raises since then? 
 
I am guessing that he has as well. 
 
Why are you arguing about this? It's not an unreasonable idea to think that he gets yearly raises.
 


I'm just assuming. Contracts like that are usually pretty set, hockey players don't get raises during their contract so I just assumed coaches don't either

#122 DickieDunn

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Posted 23 May 2014 - 05:41 PM

So, assuming you've had the same job since 2010 as well, have you received any raises since then? 
 
I am guessing that he has as well. 
 
Why are you arguing about this? It's not an unreasonable idea to think that he gets yearly raises.
 

I'm just assuming. Contracts like that are usually pretty set, hockey players don't get raises during their contract so I just assumed coaches don't either


Some contracts are set for the same every year some are front loaded and some are set for them to get a rase each year. That's why cap hit is average salary of the deal.

Oh this young man has had a very trying rookie season, with the litigation, the notoriety, his subsequent deportation to Canada and that country's refusal to accept him, well, I guess that's more than most 21-year-olds can handle... Ogie Ogilthorpe!


#123 decorideas

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Posted 05 June 2014 - 12:22 AM

Holland commented on some issues late Wed. evening at the conclusion of the Wings 3-day meeting. I don't have the link but check the Malik Report.

 

I have to admit I really don't get any good vibes from what he said. I sincerely hope I am totally off-target but I believe Holland and Babcock are at opposite ends of the direction spectrum and Babcock will not re-enlist after next year. He's done and as good as gone.

 

Holland said the Wings won't go after any "big names" in free agency but will listen to trade offers. Forget about a Top 4 D-man from the UFA market.  Holland said the only UFA that definitely "out" is Sammuelsson. Almost all the forwards for next year are set (11-12 players), but still no word on Alfie. Six of the D-men for next year are set. I'm guessing Quincey is heading for Free Agency and the Wings will go with Kronwall, Ericsson, DeKeyser, Kindl, Smith and Lashoff. The 7th (and maybe an 8th) D-man will come up from GR.

 

My gut tells me Babs wants one thing and Holland wants something different. Not sure who is at which end of the spectrum. If I had to guess I would lean toward the position that Babs wants experienced proven veterans and Holland wants to bring the Kids in and let them play. I wonder if getting Legwand was Babs' idea and Holland feels like he wasted resources for nothing.

 

For all I know it could be just the opposite, but something doesn't sit right with Holland's comments after this 3 day meeting compared to the remarks that we heard a few weeks ago. What do I know? Nothing, absolutely nothing. We'll wait and see.



#124 frankgrimes

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Posted 05 June 2014 - 01:09 AM

Thanks for the summary personally I'm already accepting the fact that this will be Babcocks last year and I don't blame him. This team went from the defacto class of the NHL to still contender, to behind the top pack to playoff contender..that's just not good enough for a proven winner like Babcock. He know hother teams ae going to pay him whatever he wants and he could coach some superstars in their prime sucks for us but this could be the road for him.

 

I STILL do not believe Holland will go into the next season with the current defense there is nof****** way,


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#125 puck9595

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Posted 05 June 2014 - 01:36 AM

Holland commented on some issues late Wed. evening at the conclusion of the Wings 3-day meeting. I don't have the link but check the Malik Report.

 

I have to admit I really don't get any good vibes from what he said. I sincerely hope I am totally off-target but I believe Holland and Babcock are at opposite ends of the direction spectrum and Babcock will not re-enlist after next year. He's done and as good as gone.

 

Holland said the Wings won't go after any "big names" in free agency but will listen to trade offers. Forget about a Top 4 D-man from the UFA market.  Holland said the only UFA that definitely "out" is Sammuelsson. Almost all the forwards for next year are set (11-12 players), but still no word on Alfie. Six of the D-men for next year are set. I'm guessing Quincey is heading for Free Agency and the Wings will go with Kronwall, Ericsson, DeKeyser, Kindl, Smith and Lashoff. The 7th (and maybe an 8th) D-man will come up from GR.

 

My gut tells me Babs wants one thing and Holland wants something different. Not sure who is at which end of the spectrum. If I had to guess I would lean toward the position that Babs wants experienced proven veterans and Holland wants to bring the Kids in and let them play. I wonder if getting Legwand was Babs' idea and Holland feels like he wasted resources for nothing.

 

For all I know it could be just the opposite, but something doesn't sit right with Holland's comments after this 3 day meeting compared to the remarks that we heard a few weeks ago. What do I know? Nothing, absolutely nothing. We'll wait and see.

 

From the malik article: Holland didn't really say much of anything which isn't unusual. 

 

And no he did not say that, the writer did, it makes a difference.



#126 Dabura

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Posted 05 June 2014 - 05:25 AM

Regner: Babcock has one year to live


Don't Toews me, bro!


#127 Euro_Twins

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Posted 05 June 2014 - 05:30 AM

Regner: Babcock has one year to live


The babpocalypse is Nye

#128 BottleOfSmoke

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Posted 05 June 2014 - 01:20 PM

The babpocalypse is Nye


I heard this in possessed Jonah Hill's voice

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#129 FireCaptain

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Posted 15 September 2014 - 09:00 PM

Well, this oughta get the tin foil hatters clucking again.

 

At least Holland is consistent, he low-balls the coach too.. haha

 

 

 

The first assumption is that money will not be an object, that the Red Wings will give Babcock all the money and all the term he wants and that if Babcock leaves, it will be for a better situation. There is no salary cap on what coaches can be paid, so that begs the question, why would a superstar coach such as Babcock not make $5 million a year? Joel Quenneville, who has won two Stanley Cups in the past four years, is believed to be the highest-paid coach in the NHL at about $2.5 million, which is ridiculously low because it’s less than the average player salary.

Babcock will almost certainly become the game’s highest paid coach, whether it’s with Detroit or someone else, but Red Wings GM Ken Holland doesn’t seem to be eager to be the one to set a precedent.

“That’s not the way I negotiate,” Holland said. “I use the word fair, but fair is different for lots of people. Otherwise you’d have coaches making $20 million. This is a business and I’m in charge of making business decisions and we all have responsibilities. That’s how the business runs. In the industry, when you’re charged with the responsibility of managing an operation, you try to make sure everyone is treated fair in the industry, fair in the organization.”

 

http://www.thehockey...k-negotiations/


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#130 frankgrimes

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Posted 15 September 2014 - 10:17 PM

not surprised he still believes everyone including coaches is lining up to be a Wing. If the wings lose Babcock well that would mean even less arguments to bring to players in. He will be the highest paid coach in hockey no matter what, if Holland low balls him Babs will move on and win some cups in steel town. You can bet Mario, Tannenbaum and a bunch of other teams would pay him 5 million per no matter what

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#131 kliq

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Posted 15 September 2014 - 11:16 PM

not surprised he still believes everyone including coaches is lining up to be a Wing. If the wings lose Babcock well that would mean even less arguments to bring to players in. He will be the highest paid coach in hockey no matter what, if Holland low balls him Babs will move on and win some cups in steel town. You can bet Mario, Tannenbaum and a bunch of other teams would pay him 5 million per no matter what

 

You think he should be paid double what the highest paid coach is getting?

 

Don't get me wrong, I love Babs, but that seems a bit ridiculous.



#132 frankgrimes

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Posted 16 September 2014 - 01:13 AM

If that's what it takes sure. Babcock has all the leverage here his salary doesn't count against the cap and his resume is unreal. I don't think Quenville is the highest paid coach, I think it's Carlyle

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#133 kliq

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Posted 16 September 2014 - 01:43 AM

If that's what it takes sure. Babcock has all the leverage here his salary doesn't count against the cap and his resume is unreal. I don't think Quenville is the highest paid coach, I think it's Carlyle

 

From what i've read, in 2013 Carlyle wasn't even top ten.

 

I think one could argue that Babs should be the highest paid coach in the league, but double the salary of the #2 paid coach is going way too far IMO.



#134 DeGraa55

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Posted 16 September 2014 - 02:54 AM

He should be at like 3m maaaaaaybe 3.5m. 5m is too high lol

#135 frankgrimes

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Posted 16 September 2014 - 04:20 AM

He should be at like 3m maaaaaaybe 3.5m. 5m is too high lol

 

It was just an example maybe he ends up at 2,8, 3 or maybe 4,5 we will never know it. I mean all those sums are speculations although by reputable sources.

 

As for Carlyle I'm a bit shocked given how much pressure Toronto has and the big $ machine that is MLSE one would expect a huge contract.


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#136 krsmith17

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Posted 16 September 2014 - 05:53 AM

Say what you want about the way Holland negotiates contracts, but I think he is right in trying to get a "fair" contract. That goes for players and coaches. I'm quite okay with Holland not overpaying on free agents and trying to sign his own players and coaches to reasonable deals. I wish more GM's across the league would have this same mentality. If that were the case, we probably wouldn't even know of the term "lock-out"...

 

I'm well aware that the coaches salaries are not included in a teams salary cap but it can still effect the state of the league. So, Babcock gets paid $5M next season, is anyone so naïve to think that all other coaches negotiating new contracts won't demand a little (lot) more. Even though they may not be on the same level as Babs in terms of accomplishments, I don't think he is twice as good as every other coach in the league. What happens when coaches such as Darryl Sutter, Joel Quenneville, Claude Julien, Ken Hitchcock (who in my opinion are pretty darn close to Babcock) need a new deal? They also get double their previous contract, based on Babcock's new contract, and it just keeps escalating.

 

Same goes for free agent players, and that's why so many players in the league today are waaaay overpaid. There is a bidding war for mediocre players every single year and I love that Holland doesn't like to overpay and wants to get a "fair" contract. Ken Holland will never be the cause of an NHL lock-out and for that I appreciate what he is trying to do.

 

No man (player or coach) should be paid the sums of money these guys are making but that's another topic...



#137 The Secret

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Posted 16 September 2014 - 06:42 AM

 

You think he should be paid double what the highest paid coach is getting?

 

Don't get me wrong, I love Babs, but that seems a bit ridiculous.

2 stanley cups + 2 olympic golds + most wins as a wings coach + somehow managed to get last years limp penoose of a team into the playoffs for the 23rd year in a row + proven at every level and in  every way with every other team in the league watching for the slight chance Holland mucks things so they can swoop in to steal him away..... Give him his 5 Mill... make him the highest paid and be proud to have him.

 

You never let a proven player like Hossa slip away like we did and you should never let a proven #1 coach slip away either. We aren't exactly the preferred destination of free agents at this point in time and if you subtract Babcock its even less of a draw. Babcock + Health = Success and more players wanting to come to the new budding Detroit Red Wings!


Edited by The Secret, 16 September 2014 - 06:43 AM.


#138 frankgrimes

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Posted 16 September 2014 - 08:36 AM

Say what you want about the way Holland negotiates contracts, but I think heis right in trying to get a "fair" contract. That goes for players and coaches. I'm quite okay with Holland not overpaying on free agents and trying to sign his own players and coaches to reasonable deals. I wish more GM's across the league would have this same mentality. If that were the case, we probably wouldn't evenknow of the term "lock-out"...

I'm well aware that the coaches salaries are not included in a teams salary cap but it can still effect the state of the league. So, Babcock gets paid $5M next season, is anyone so naﶥ to think that all other coaches negotiating new contracts won't demand a little (lot) more. Even though they may not be on the same level as Babs in terms of accomplishments, I don't think he is twice as good asevery other coach in the league. What happens when coaches such as Darryl Sutter, Joel Quenneville, Claude Julien, Ken Hitchcock (who in my opinion are pretty darn close to Babcock) needa new deal? They also get double their previous contract, based on Babcock's new contract, and it just keeps escalating.
.


Over 6 million this summer are saying otherwise but whatever Babcock is the best coach in hockey and he is trying to keep a rapidly declining team in the playoffs, all while his GM didn't help him out the last few years.

This is an original six team so run it like one who cares if other coaches demand more? In fact this whole thing is really simple Holland had 2 weeks to get it done or Babcock is gone because other teams will line up for his services and pony up the amount of cash he wants.

Personally I'm sick of terms like fair contact, hockey deal and kicking the tires he is paid to get the job done, period. If the wings lose Babcock they also fall further down the top ufas list! This negotiation should be damn easy give him a blank cheque and be proud to have Babcock!

Edited by frankgrimes, 16 September 2014 - 08:42 AM.

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#139 Dabura

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Posted 16 September 2014 - 09:01 AM

This team went from the defacto class of the NHL to still contender, to behind the top pack to playoff contender..that's just not good enough for a proven winner like Babcock.

 

This is why I'm inclined to think he stays on for at least a couple more years.

 

Mike Babcock is an alpha male. And he has an ego. (He wants to be the "biggest swinging **** in the room, any room.") And he believes in "Leaving No Doubt" that you are as good at your job as you'd have people believe you are. And, at this stage in his career, he wants a challenge that's going to push him to learn some new things and become an even better coach and hockey mind and person. And, finally, he believes in being a Good Man and doing The Right Thing and facing things head-on, head held high, "No big deal, I got this, because if I don't got this, well, that's just unacceptable. Because I'm Mike Babcock, and I'd like to think I'm a Good Man." Further, he's coached Lidstrom, and also Datsyuk in Datsyuk's prime, winning a Cup with them.

 

All of this, taken together, says to me that he's going to want to guide the Wings back to contention and win another Cup with them in two or three years. Heading to Toronto or Pittsburgh would be easy, expected. A lesser coach might do that. A lesser man might do that. Power, money, media fellatio - all tempting. But is that why Mike Babcock's in this business? Not saying he doesn't want those things, but I feel like he'd want that golden ticket to Willy Wonka's factory only after he's "Left No Doubt" and helped coach a team that everyone had written off back to the top of the mountain. That way, there's no "Oh, that Mike Babcock. He's a great coach, sure, but you have to admit he's overrated. He gets Anaheim to Game 7 of the SCF, but he can't get the job done. He realizes this was a miracle run for the Ducks that he's not going to be able to replicate and he jumps ship to perennial contender Detroit. Any coach could've won a couple Cups with those Wings teams, and, actually, he only managed to win one. And those Olympic gold medals? Any person with half a brain could've coached those Canada teams to gold. Then, when things got really hard in Detroit and Lidstrom was nowhere to be found, he jumped ship again. This is a guy who, while certainly brilliant, knows how to pick his spots to enhance his aura. I don't rate him much higher than Dan Bylsma, tbh. If Bylsma had coached those Olympic teams, he'd have one Cup and a couple gold medals, same as Babcock. Scotty Bowman was - and is - a living legend. That's a man who'd really earned the right to pick a role of his choosing in an organization of his choosing. Babcock isn't necessarily the best coach in the league right now, let alone a Scotty Bowman. And no one knows that better than Babcock. That's why he left Detroit instead of sticking it out and trying to prove beyond any doubt that, like some crazy SEAL Ninja Jedi Master, you could dump him in the middle of the ocean and when you get home that night he'll be making love with your woman in your bed, because he's just that damn good."


Edited by Dabura, 16 September 2014 - 10:26 AM.

Don't Toews me, bro!


#140 krsmith17

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Posted 16 September 2014 - 09:18 AM

Lol, well said Dabura. On top of all that is how well he is treated by the Red Wings, the classiest organization in the NHL, probably all of sports. Why would he be so quick to leave that? I don't think he really has any intension in leaving, he's just got to play a little hardball to get what he along with Kenny thinks is the right deal.

Also, with all the talent in the pipeline, coming up over the next few years, that may be another enticing reason to stay in Detroit. I'm willing to bet he can see the brightness at the end of the tunnel that most fans can't seem to see. I just don't see him signing with another team, he'll be resigned for another 4 years.







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