Canada can support 3 more teams in 20yrs

[PredsFanTheBayouState 263]

Houston needs to have a NHL team,so I can see some actually NHL hockey,I love our minor league team here,but we only have 8 teams in the league,so it gets tiring seeing the same team over and over

[hillbillywingsfan 792]

Houston needs to have a NHL team,so I can see some actually NHL hockey,I love our minor league team here,but we only have 8 teams in the league,so it gets tiring seeing the same team over and over

What minor league team?

[PredsFanTheBayouState 263]

What minor league team?

i wasn't talking about a minor league team in houston,since there is not one,was talking about the minor league team that we have in louisiana.

[Z Winged Dangler 2,082]

What's wrong with Saskatoon ? If you are a hockeyplayer you for sure expect to play in a hockey-climate. The thing with Pronger is purely on the Oilers, he made it known from the start that he nor his - at that time girlfriend - didn't want to go there and they drafted him anyway, so their fault not his.

Winnipeg has one - if not the smallest - building in the NHL and yet it's sold out every time, I could see something like this working for Saskatoon, Hamilton and obviously Quebec.

The thing with Vegas is, the BOG could be crazy enough to be in favor of such a stupid move. Hamilton, Quebec would for sure be slamdunks but Vegas a disaster waiting to happen.

I would rather live in Saskatoon than Toronto. I moved from Winnipeg to Toronto for work and can't wait for the day I get posted back. and being at Jets games are far more exciting than the Leafs and their suits.

[frankgrimes 1,836]

I would rather live in Saskatoon than Toronto. I moved from Winnipeg to Toronto for work and can't wait for the day I get posted back. and being at Jets games are far more exciting than the Leafs and their suits.

Easily understandable, the team is owned by two absolute horrible organizations the fans are massive but also feature a massive amount of roudy armchair GMs, people playing for the Leafs don't have lots of privacy whenever they decide to go out.

As for investing I fully agree, I would want to invest my money into a hockeytown not into some suit driven desert or non hockey-climate where teams can't even survive with revenue sharing.

[PavelValerievichDatsyuk 1,935]

You want to look at MSA (or other aggregate measures like CMA for Canda) population when talking about the ability to support a team. While the city of Buffalo has a population of 259,384, the two county MSA (only US) has over 1.1 million people.

I don't see Saskatoon getting a team in the near future- the CMA has ~260,000 and less than .5 million when combined with Regina. While the games might sell-out, the corporate money and television broadcast rights would likely be too small. Canadian teams also have to deal with the USD exchange rate.

If there is another expansion, I hope to see a Seattle team and a Quebec City team.

Okay, if you look at those numbers, Quebec City is already larger than Winnipeg.

Quebec City: 765,706

Winnipeg: 730,018

Hamilton: 721,053

Hamilton is low but, like I said, it is about an hour away from Kitchener (477,160), St. Catherines (392,184), Brantford (135,501) and Toronto (5,583,064). Without including Toronto, that's 1,725,898. I believe Hamilton would be the safest bet. And, yes, I agree - say no to Saskatoon.

At the end of the day, though, you do have to ignore the number and look at level to which Hockey is present in the culture of an area. If you only look at the numbers, why wasn't Atlanta (MSA: 5,522,942) a slam dunk and was is Florida struggling (Miami: 5,828,191)

If you go to Quebec City during the winter, there's outdoor rink on like every other block (slight exaggeration, but only slightly). The answer people always give back is: but they had team and it failed. From everything I've read, the financial problems were due to the fact that they couldn't get English media deals (and, therefore, english TV audiences) and couldn't get corporate backing for a new arena. Media is certainly very different than 1995. The Canadian sports media goes crazy over any Canadian team now and I'm sure CBC or TSN would be all over a deal. Hell, CBC even shows games in Punjabi so I'm sure they'd want to serve English Nordique fans. As for financial backing, the municipality is building them a rink and there's not even a team yet so clearly there's money to back them.

Also, the Canadian dollar argument isn't as meaningful as it used to be since the CAN dollar has been pretty high for quite a while.

Edited May 13, 2014 by PavelValerievichDatsyuk

[DickieDunn 2,571]

They're not generating the revenue; that doesn't mean the owner doesn't have money to invest like all the owners since the beginning of the league have. Remember when the Preds owner told the press they were never going to spend above the cap floor to get as much revenue sharing as possible? If they're not willing to invest in the team, why should anyone else?

If I were an investor looking to sink my money into a new NHL team, I'd invest in a Canadian team or not at all. The odds are in favor that a new Canadian team would do better than a new US team IMO.

So the owners should spend millions more than the team is making?

[cusimano_brothers 1,655]

All possible Canadian cities mentioned, with the most remote of chances of getting an NHL franchise, all suffer from the same "malady": an arena that would not meet the League's criteria for minimum size.

[PavelValerievichDatsyuk 1,935]

All possible Canadian cities mentioned, with the most remote of chances of getting an NHL franchise, all suffer from the same "malady": an arena that would not meet the League's criteria for minimum size.

Quebec City is currently building an NHL sized rink right beside the old Nordiques' Pepsi Colosseum. It will open in 2015.

Back when the owner of Blackberry was attempting to Buy the Coyotes and move them to Hamilton, it was said that Copps Colosseum (named something else now, think) could be expanded to NHL size.

[frankgrimes 1,836]

All possible Canadian cities mentioned, with the most remote of chances of getting an NHL franchise, all suffer from the same "malady": an arena that would not meet the League's criteria for minimum size.

I never understood this argument because a large arena does nothing if you can't fill it. So yes, Winnipeg has only 15.000 seats but it's sold out every game other teams have bigger arenas but fail to even reach the 12.000 mark.

[cusimano_brothers 1,655]

I never understood this argument because a large arena does nothing if you can't fill it. So yes, Winnipeg has only 15.000 seats but it's sold out every game other teams have bigger arenas but fail to even reach the 12.000 mark.

The League plays the tune, the franchises have to dance to it. If they say you're facility doesn't meet their "minimum seating capacity" criteria they have established, you will either modify the existing site or build anew.

Seattle = Uncle Gary's latest wet dream.

[DickieDunn 2,571]

All possible Canadian cities mentioned, with the most remote of chances of getting an NHL franchise, all suffer from the same "malady": an arena that would not meet the League's criteria for minimum size.

I never understood this argument because a large arena does nothing if you can't fill it. So yes, Winnipeg has only 15.000 seats but it's sold out every game other teams have bigger arenas but fail to even reach the 12.000 mark.

Winnipeg is capped at 15k. I'd your barn can hold 19k you have the potential to sell that many tickets even if you're not because your team sucks.

[frankgrimes 1,836]

The League plays the tune, the franchises have to dance to it. If they say you're facility doesn't meet their "minimum seating capacity" criteria they have established, you will either modify the existing site or build anew.

Seattle = Uncle Gary's latest wet dream.

Agreed and hopefully the final nail in his coffin. Seattle would be an absolute horrible idea, the league seems to like problem childs and non hockey places.

[Euro_Twins 4,475]

Winnipeg is capped at 15k. I'd your barn can hold 19k you have the potential to sell that many tickets even if you're not because your team sucks.

Ya but if you see a arena that holds 15,000 people full every night, or one that holds 19,000 at %75-%80 capacity every night l, as an investor who are you going to invest in? I would assume the one that is sold out every game

[Holmstrom96 347]

I would move a struggling US team to Hamilton and Quebeq. I wouldn't do any more expansion.

[frankgrimes 1,836]

Winnipeg is capped at 15k. I'd your barn can hold 19k you have the potential to sell that many tickets even if you're not because your team sucks.

Ya but if you see a arena that holds 15,000 people full every night, or one that holds 19,000 at %75-%80 capacity every night l, as an investor who are you going to invest in? I would assume the one that is sold out every game

Exactly and the thing is most of these high capacity by tax payers money built arenas aren't even at full 70 % capacity. Personally I'd tell them you guys have had enough time to build and invest into this franchise you didn't, so back t Canada we go.

As an investor you want to make money the right way and not by ripping tax payers off or try to build a hockey market somewhere where people couldn't care less!

[kipwinger 8,521]

As an investor you want to make money the right way and not by ripping tax payers off or try to build a hockey market somewhere where people couldn't care less!

You mean like Mike Illitch does?

[WorkingOvertime 536]

The Canadian sports media goes crazy over any Canadian team now and I'm sure CBC or TSN would be all over a deal. Hell, CBC even shows games in Punjabi so I'm sure they'd want to serve English Nordique fans. As for financial backing, the municipality is building them a rink and there's not even a team yet so clearly there's money to back them.

Also, the Canadian dollar argument isn't as meaningful as it used to be since the CAN dollar has been pretty high for quite a while.

The problem with expansion in Canada from the NHL point of view is that the media and citizens are already into hockey. That is, the NHL wants teams in new areas (like Seattle) where the television market is large and they can get new fans watching hockey, buying merchandise, etc. As I said before, I would like a team in Quebec City.

[frankgrimes 1,836]

The problem with expansion in Canada from the NHL point of view is that the media and citizens are already into hockey. That is, the NHL wants teams in new areas (like Seattle) where the television market is large and they can get new fans watching hockey, buying merchandise, etc. As I said before, I would like a team in Quebec City.

I understand that but the problem is:

not enough people - including media - are willing to get into hockey or embrase it = less merchandise sale than say in Canada. Seattle only wants the NHL as an after thought and we all know how that turned out. Dallas at least has some fans showing up when the team does well = competing in the playoffs.

but the truth is, some markets aren't just made for hockey no matter how big their population is.

Canadian teams should boycott revenue sharing till the NHL front office is giving them more teams, Seattle would start with no fans at all, in a non hockey market AND with the NHL being an after thought to me that's a disaster waiting to happen.

[evilmrt 636]

I understand that but the problem is:

not enough people - including media - are willing to get into hockey or embrase it = less merchandise sale than say in Canada. Seattle only wants the NHL as an after thought and we all know how that turned out. Dallas at least has some fans showing up when the team does well = competing in the playoffs.

but the truth is, some markets aren't just made for hockey no matter how big their population is.

Canadian teams should boycott revenue sharing till the NHL front office is giving them more teams, Seattle would start with no fans at all, in a non hockey market AND with the NHL being an after thought to me that's a disaster waiting to happen.

I would agree but with one additional point... The Seattle area is one of the most likely US metros that could potentially be converted to a hockey city (to some degree). Washington already has a lot of junior hockey, and they have a natural rival right across the border. Some very concerted grassroots efforts, and media presence, I think they'd be in very good shape after ten years, a solid hockey city. You don't have such potential in other scenarios in the US.

This would probably take better league leadership than they currently have now, though.

[frankgrimes 1,836]

I would agree but with one additional point... The Seattle area is one of the most likely US metros that could potentially be converted to a hockey city (to some degree). Washington already has a lot of junior hockey, and they have a natural rival right across the border. Some very concerted grassroots efforts, and media presence, I think they'd be in very good shape after ten years, a solid hockey city. You don't have such potential in other scenarios in the US.

This would probably take better league leadership than they currently have now, though.

That's a very good point and I agree if there's a us city which could pull it off it might be Seattle especially if Paul Allen invests as a majority owner but it would still be far from a slamdunk like Quebec and the return of the Nordics

[DickieDunn 2,571]

I don't like sticking teams back where they failed once. It's like getting back with an ex-girlfriend.

[frankgrimes 1,836]

I don't like sticking teams back where they failed once. It's like getting back with an ex-girlfriend.

Winnipeg comes to mind and sometimes getting back a former ex gf turns out to be the best decision ever. Giving Quebec back what belongs to them is only fair and easier than trying to build another fanbase almost from scratch

[cusimano_brothers 1,655]

The name (as of right now) is the New Quebec City Amphitheatre. From the look of it's webcam, it either hasn't been updated in awhile or there is still snow in Quebec City.

[PredsFanTheBayouState 263]

Winnipeg comes to mind and sometimes getting back a former ex gf turns out to be the best decision ever. Giving Quebec back what belongs to them is only fair and easier than trying to build another fanbase almost from scratch

if the NHL dosen't wanna give Quebec a hockey team again,they don't have to.The NHL may started in Canada,but they don't own the league and can't tell them where to put teams or move teams to,that is for the nhl to decide

Edited May 15, 2014 by PredsFanTheBayouState