Jump to content


Photo
* * - - - 1 votes

Dan Boyle's rights traded to the Islanders…..


  • Please log in to reply
148 replies to this topic

#81 DickieDunn

DickieDunn

    http://redwingsandotherthings.wordpress.com/

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,509 posts
  • Location:Belding

Posted 10 June 2014 - 05:13 PM

 

What we need is an offensive guy.  Our defense is almost entirely defense-first guys.  If the player is good enough offensively, we can risk having one guy who isn't amazing at defense.  Especially if Quincey and Kindl are gone.  We don't need defensive guys, we need someone to get the offense going from the back end, which has been our bread and butter for over a decade.  The team started going down once we started losing offensive d-men.

 

Balance is key, and an offensive guy who isn't necessarily the best at defense is fine under the current condition of the team.


 

Kronwall is balanced, but leans more towards being an offensive guy over defense.  Smith is mostly offense.  Kindl is supposed to be a puck mover.  Ericsson, Dekeyser, Lashoff are defensive d-men.


Oh this young man has had a very trying rookie season, with the litigation, the notoriety, his subsequent deportation to Canada and that country's refusal to accept him, well, I guess that's more than most 21-year-olds can handle... Ogie Ogilthorpe!


#82 frankgrimes

frankgrimes

    Hall-of-Famer

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,182 posts

Posted 11 June 2014 - 03:04 AM

Kronwall is balanced, but leans more towards being an offensive guy over defense.  Smith is mostly offense.  Kindl is supposed to be a puck mover.  Ericsson, Dekeyser, Lashoff are defensive d-men.

 

That's exactly my problem with the way Kronwall has been used since Lids retired. The guy is asked to run the PP instead of focusing on shutting down the other teams best players and  be physical force (i.e KRONWALLED). Yeah he is trying hard but it just isn't his strong side. The problem is save for Niskanen nobody will be available to fill that role and I don't think a soon to be 38 year old Boyle is going to be the answer to our problems.


kftx.jpg

 

The Offseason of truth ...

Welcome to hockeytown Jonas aka Lundquist 2 Gustavsson!

blank cheque for The Captain or Jim Star Nil please..


#83 number9

number9

    All The Best Players Wear A 9

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,729 posts
  • Location:Buffalo

Posted 11 June 2014 - 03:12 AM

 

That's exactly my problem with the way Kronwall has been used since Lids retired. The guy is asked to run the PP instead of focusing on shutting down the other teams best players and  be physical force (i.e KRONWALLED). Yeah he is trying hard but it just isn't his strong side. The problem is save for Niskanen nobody will be available to fill that role and I don't think a soon to be 38 year old Boyle is going to be the answer to our problems.

 

Seriously though. Kindl and Smith have yet to show offensive upside. Unless they suddenly show up next year, we are again dealing with Kronwall as our ONLY puck moving defender again. And yes Kronwall can move the puck, but like Frank said I'd rather he compliment a puck mover defensively than take on the entire responsibility himself.

 

If Kindl, Smith, Ouellet, Sproul, are not next years puck moving answer, then a stop gap puck mover like Boyle should be signed to the shortest deal possible.



#84 wings4thecup06

wings4thecup06

    1st Line Sniper

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 931 posts
  • Location:London, United Kingdom

Posted 11 June 2014 - 04:38 AM

 

Seriously though. Kindl and Smith have yet to show offensive upside. Unless they suddenly show up next year, we are again dealing with Kronwall as our ONLY puck moving defender again. And yes Kronwall can move the puck, but like Frank said I'd rather he compliment a puck mover defensively than take on the entire responsibility himself.

 

If Kindl, Smith, Ouellet, Sproul, are not next years puck moving answer, then a stop gap puck mover like Boyle should be signed to the shortest deal possible.

 

IMO, I think Smith has shown some pretty good upside offensively. He's scored some pretty decent goals, joined the rush and used his great skating to his advantage. Granted, he needs to learn more about when to pinch or not, but thats a learning process. 

 

I think the bad part is the fact that Babs consistently used Kindl on the second PP unit instead of Smith. 

 

Overall though yea we definitely need someone to step up and help give Kronner a break


temp 1

 


#85 anthonyn66

anthonyn66

    Wings fan in Leaf Nation

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • 329 posts
  • Location:Bandwagon Leaf Nation

Posted 11 June 2014 - 07:45 AM

 

IMO, I think Smith has shown some pretty good upside offensively. He's scored some pretty decent goals, joined the rush and used his great skating to his advantage. Granted, he needs to learn more about when to pinch or not, but thats a learning process. 

 

I think the bad part is the fact that Babs consistently used Kindl on the second PP unit instead of Smith. 

 

Overall though yea we definitely need someone to step up and help give Kronner a break

Kindl needs to go, especially if we're looking to bring in a RH offensive defenseman. He's the most expendable and has the least upside. There should be a team that would take him to help hit cap floor, flip him for a pick.

 

Smith has way more upside, and I would not be happy if he were traded for anything that wasn't great. He plays like Subban, a risky player but it pays off when his pushes work. Remember when Babcock talked to him on 24/7? He just needs to minimize his risk and up his conversion, and be paired with a guy like Ericsson or Kronwall.



#86 e_prime

e_prime

    1st Line All-Star

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,714 posts
  • Location:Brooklyn, NY

Posted 11 June 2014 - 07:51 AM

 

Seriously though. Kindl and Smith have yet to show offensive upside. Unless they suddenly show up next year, we are again dealing with Kronwall as our ONLY puck moving defender again. And yes Kronwall can move the puck, but like Frank said I'd rather he compliment a puck mover defensively than take on the entire responsibility himself.

 

If Kindl, Smith, Ouellet, Sproul, are not next years puck moving answer, then a stop gap puck mover like Boyle should be signed to the shortest deal possible.

I don't think Kindl is capable of "showing up."

The only place I want him to "show up" is on another team.

 

If he's not traded for a better d-man, I'm willing to give Smith some more time to grow.

I was patient with Ericsson, I can be patient with Smith.

Realistically, until he got bumped up to pair with Kronwall, he was being tasked with being more defensively responsible. While I think that's something he needs to learn to balance out his game, I just don't see how that was going to happen when he was constantly with Quincey.

 

 

IMO, I think Smith has shown some pretty good upside offensively. He's scored some pretty decent goals, joined the rush and used his great skating to his advantage. Granted, he needs to learn more about when to pinch or not, but thats a learning process. 

 

I think the bad part is the fact that Babs consistently used Kindl on the second PP unit instead of Smith.

 

Overall though yea we definitely need someone to step up and help give Kronner a break

Kindl has no business being on the PP.


Edited by e_prime, 11 June 2014 - 07:52 AM.

QUOTE
(AtomicPunk @ February 4, 2010 - 12:16AM)

Imma let you finish, and your cap numbers are all good and all that, but imma let Kenny figure it out. Kenny's cap numbers were the best cap numbers this year.

#87 DeGraa55

DeGraa55

    1st Line All-Star

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,712 posts

Posted 11 June 2014 - 08:33 AM

 
Seriously though. Kindl and Smith have yet to show offensive upside. Unless they suddenly show up next year, we are again dealing with Kronwall as our ONLY puck moving defender again. And yes Kronwall can move the puck, but like Frank said I'd rather he compliment a puck mover defensively than take on the entire responsibility himself.
 
If Kindl, Smith, Ouellet, Sproul, are not next years puck moving answer, then a stop gap puck mover like Boyle should be signed to the shortest deal possible.



Corsi stats prove smith is OUR BEST 5 on 5 buck mover and suggest that if he was given the same PP time as kronwall he would've had more points. He did have more 5 on 5 points.

#88 Rivalred

Rivalred

    Legend

  • HoF Booster
  • 7,302 posts

Posted 11 June 2014 - 09:03 AM

Corsi stats prove smith is OUR BEST 5 on 5 buck mover and suggest that if he was given the same PP time as kronwall he would've had more points. He did have more 5 on 5 points.


I am about to take Corsi stats outback and take a huge dump on it
D-Fence Avatar Win-O-Meter 8-1

#89 e_prime

e_prime

    1st Line All-Star

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,714 posts
  • Location:Brooklyn, NY

Posted 11 June 2014 - 09:16 AM

I am about to take Corsi stats outback and take a huge dump on it

I LOL'ed.


QUOTE
(AtomicPunk @ February 4, 2010 - 12:16AM)

Imma let you finish, and your cap numbers are all good and all that, but imma let Kenny figure it out. Kenny's cap numbers were the best cap numbers this year.

#90 krsmith17

krsmith17

    2nd Line Scorer

  • Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 516 posts
  • Location:Paradise, Newfoundland

Posted 11 June 2014 - 09:29 AM

You can say what you like about corsi stats, love em or hate em, they are somewhat accurate and are becoming more and more commonly used. I don't care too much for them, but then again I don't care too much for any stats really. Yes stats are important but I'd much prefer to just watch the game and base my opinion on players and teams based on the trusty ol eye ball test. And anyone that has watched Smith over the latter half of last season and has come to the conclussion that he is "useless" or "tradeable" or whatever, obviously haven't been watching the same Brendan Smith as me and the entire Red Wings brass. Everyone in the Red Wings organization are very high on Smith, and like myself, believe that he has the tools to be a top pairing guy in this league.



#91 e_prime

e_prime

    1st Line All-Star

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,714 posts
  • Location:Brooklyn, NY

Posted 11 June 2014 - 09:38 AM

If people think Smith is useless, they're clueless.  

 

...but I certainly think he's trade-able, just not a MUST TRADE NOW. (Like Kindl)

 

I'm also not a stats guy, but they're certainly important to measuring player worth, effectiveness, etc.

Marek and Wysh had their goalie guy on the other day (I can't recall his name.  Will edit later) and he was talking goal stats which is interesting, but at the same time IMMENSELY BORING to the layman, average fan, or pretty much anyone who isn't a scout or super-nerd.  (No offense to the super-nerds.  I'm one.  Just not for stats.)


QUOTE
(AtomicPunk @ February 4, 2010 - 12:16AM)

Imma let you finish, and your cap numbers are all good and all that, but imma let Kenny figure it out. Kenny's cap numbers were the best cap numbers this year.

#92 krsmith17

krsmith17

    2nd Line Scorer

  • Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 516 posts
  • Location:Paradise, Newfoundland

Posted 11 June 2014 - 09:53 AM

I agree with that. I don't believe ANY player is untradeable. I think Pittsburgh would trade Crosby with the right return but of course it would have to be massive over payment. And everyone knows Gretzky was traded, not once but twice... But I stand by my statement. I believe that if Smith was traded, it would be a huge mistake and people would be calling for Holland's head a few years down the road...



#93 DickieDunn

DickieDunn

    http://redwingsandotherthings.wordpress.com/

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,509 posts
  • Location:Belding

Posted 11 June 2014 - 09:55 AM

Kronwall has never been the shut down guy. That was Stuart's job, now it's Ericsson's. Smith puts up decent numbers for his role and who he's on the ice with.

Oh this young man has had a very trying rookie season, with the litigation, the notoriety, his subsequent deportation to Canada and that country's refusal to accept him, well, I guess that's more than most 21-year-olds can handle... Ogie Ogilthorpe!


#94 DeGraa55

DeGraa55

    1st Line All-Star

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,712 posts

Posted 11 June 2014 - 11:19 AM

I am about to take Corsi stats outback and take a huge dump on it


That's cute. Then just look at your stats on NHL.com. It still doesn't change the fact that smith had more points in 5on 5 play then kronwall or any ither defenseman with us. So that means he should be on the PP much more than he was.

#95 amato

amato

    1st Line All-Star

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,642 posts

Posted 11 June 2014 - 01:02 PM

kronner-smith

ericsson-niskinen

dekeyser-prospect

 

that sounds pretty solid to me, especially with continued growth of smith, dekeyser, & prospect..


Datsyukian

Dat·syu·ki·an [dat-soo-kee-uh n]

adjective

          1. When your moves are so amazing and beyond reason, the only way to describe them is "datsyukian."


#96 wings4thecup06

wings4thecup06

    1st Line Sniper

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 931 posts
  • Location:London, United Kingdom

Posted 11 June 2014 - 01:44 PM

I don't really get all the love for people crying out to acquire Niskanen. For starters the guy is going to want a monster contract that ultimately he isn't worth, and secondly I think we'd be better off going with a veteran (ala Boyle) and bringing up Ouellet. Better yet, trading Kindl. Free agency isn't the cure for everything. It's a very overpriced auction, and at the end of the day, it's not like there's a Ryan Suter out there for us to snap up. 


Edited by wings4thecup06, 11 June 2014 - 01:45 PM.

temp 1

 


#97 Son of a Wing

Son of a Wing

    London Lions Captain

  • Gold Booster
  • 1,818 posts
  • Location:London, Ontario

Posted 11 June 2014 - 01:54 PM

Corsi stats prove smith is OUR BEST 5 on 5 buck mover and suggest that if he was given the same PP time as kronwall he would've had more points. He did have more 5 on 5 points.

 

Corsi may be a factor in analyzing production/success but it is by no means some super stat that you use alone to prove anything.  It's highly subjective and flawed (like many stats) but good for complimentary analysis.

 

That's cute. Then just look at your stats on NHL.com. It still doesn't change the fact that smith had more points in 5on 5 play then kronwall or any ither defenseman with us. So that means he should be on the PP much more than he was.

 

No it doesn't...  


"The leader must never close the gap between himself and the group. If he does, he is no longer what he must be. He must walk a tightrope between the consent he must win and the control he must exert."
Vince Lombardi
 
When asked who won, Babcock said, “Well it doesn’t really matter as long as you don’t lose. It’s like going bear hunting, you take a slow guy with you in case the bear is hungry.”

#98 frankgrimes

frankgrimes

    Hall-of-Famer

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,182 posts

Posted 11 June 2014 - 02:10 PM

Free agency just like Trade Deadline is a weapon the GMs have in order to improve their team. You can't build a winner solely with draft picks you can't build a winner on UFA either so the perfect balance is key here. Is Niskanen the next Suter ? No way but he certainly is a guy that could help the Wings defense out a lot more than let's say a guy like boy could. Nobody - except our scouts, Blashhill - knows if the GR defenders are ready or not.

 

As for overpaying well that's the nature of UFA, these players have the choice on where they want to play it's basically for most of them their last big contract so yes overpayment is part of it. I would be fine with 5 mill per for 6 - 7 years for Niskanen.


kftx.jpg

 

The Offseason of truth ...

Welcome to hockeytown Jonas aka Lundquist 2 Gustavsson!

blank cheque for The Captain or Jim Star Nil please..


#99 kipwinger

kipwinger

    Hall-of-Famer

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,997 posts
  • Location:Mt. Pleasant, MI

Posted 11 June 2014 - 04:14 PM

Corsi stats prove smith is OUR BEST 5 on 5 buck mover and suggest that if he was given the same PP time as kronwall he would've had more points. He did have more 5 on 5 points.

 

Mike Green has a higher Corsi than Ryan Suter, is he "better" too? 

 

Also, both Dekeyser and Kronwall had more non-powerplay points.  Kronwall has 24 five on five points and Dekeyser had 18 five on five and 1 shorthanded point.  So that's false too. 


Edited by kipwinger, 11 June 2014 - 04:27 PM.

GMRwings:  "Well, in other civilized countries, 16 years old isn't considered underage.  For instance, I believe the age of consent is 16 in Canada.  There's some US states where it's 16 as well.  

 

Get off the high horse.  Not like she was 10."

 

"Some girls are 17 even though they look 25."

 

 


#100 VM1138

VM1138

    Legend

  • Moderator
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,564 posts
  • Location:Michigan

Posted 11 June 2014 - 04:42 PM

Kronwall is balanced, but leans more towards being an offensive guy over defense.  Smith is mostly offense.  Kindl is supposed to be a puck mover.  Ericsson, Dekeyser, Lashoff are defensive d-men.

 

Smith hasn't been used as an offensive defenseman, and Kindl hasn't provided anything.  I know that on paper they're supposed to be X, but in reality they're not.  We need someone who is a bonafide offensive defenseman.

 

And to all the people who think Boyle is our salvation, he wouldn't really change the dynamic of our defense all that much. He'd just replace Quincey.  Maybe he wouldn't be as bad, but he doesn't necessarily make us GOOD, and that, after all, is the whole point.


Check out my short e-book on the Red Wings' 1937 Stanley Cup championship entitled: "Nothing Could Keep 'Em Down." Please download it from my profile at Smashwords: https://www.smashwor...ile/view/victor

New e-book: The Spanish-American War: A Brief History. Relatively short, introductory read for casual history buffs and people who want to learn more about a forgotten war that changed America. Available at BN.com, Smashwords, Kobo, and Diesel E-Books right now. Same link as above.





Similar Topics Collapse

0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users