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Datsyukian-Deke

2014 Offseason League Signings and Trades

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We met the worst matchup last year, if we got Pittsburgh it could have been a totally different outcome. Last year everyone wanted to match up against Pittsburgh because we had a chance to beat them, now all of a sudden we can't beat them with the exact same team and they have gotten worse?

Guess what ? Good teams overcome adversity and if you expect wo win the cap, you have to able to beat everyone, period.

IF's don't win you games or change the outcome, a good, hardworking well built team is what's going to win. IF's in my mind are a shorter term for excuse something we've been hearing since 2009 and then even more of it after King Lids retired. I'm for one sick of it and looking at the job Yzerman and Nil have been doing makes we wish, we could switch GMs, period.

Just to make one thing clear, I know Holland has done a lot of great things for this organisation but I also feel he lacks the fire and willingness to take the much needed risks and trade some guys for help on the backend. So why not become the VP of hockey operations and help a young but coming GM out with your experience ?

Edited by frankgrimes

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Frankly I don't care what's gone before anymore. The point is, we're starting a new season, with a roster that is good enough IMO to make the playoffs. Once you get in, who the hell knows what might happen.

You might take Cinderella to the ball but she ain't going home with you that night.

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I think this year we have to split Z and Dats up at least until Weiss settles in:

Weiss - Datsyuk - Mantha

Franzen - Zetterberg - Nyquist

Tatar - Sheahan - Jurco

Abdelkader - Helm - Glendening

Miller - Andersson

Our forward group is actually pretty good. However the D is just a disaster:

Kronwall - Smith

Dekeyser - Quincey

Ericsson - Marchenko/Kindl

Lashoff

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My hope is that we can trade for Green, Boychuk, Yandle, Myers, or Franson..... then I'll be okay and happier at least. We'll see if Holland can pull this disaster of a UFA period out of the dumps and do something positive, but I'm not holding my breath on that one.

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My hope is that we can trade for Green, Boychuk, Yandle, Myers, or Franson..... then I'll be okay and happier at least. We'll see if Holland can pull this disaster of a UFA period out of the dumps and do something positive, but I'm not holding my breath on that one.

I will only be happy if we get one of them and not give up Tatar/Nyquist/Jurco/Mantha but that will be very difficult. Oh and I don't want to lose our 1st rounder next year lol.

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I will only be happy if we get one of them and not give up Tatar/Nyquist/Jurco/Mantha but that will be very difficult. Oh and I don't want to lose our 1st rounder next year lol.

I’d trade next year’s first (which will surely be top 15) + Nyquist for Yandle in a heartbeat.

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Sign me up aboard the Myers train. I've always liked the guy. I don't have much more to add other than the obvious which has already been said (he's huge Dman RH shot). But are there any rumours out there that were actually going for him??

Nothing new. Just the old stuff.

Boychuk would be nice too. However Boston will not trade with us. I think.

Edited by arag

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Sign me up aboard the Myers train. I've always liked the guy. I don't have much more to add other than the obvious which has already been said (he's huge Dman RH shot). But are there any rumours out there that were actually going for him??

There have been rumors that Holland was/is talking to Buffalo about possibly acquiring him, but not sure how that stands now.... Mike Green seems to be the name now, most likely to move.

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If you hate Helen St. James as much as I do, do yourself a favor and read this. It takes hackery to an entirely new level. If I'm understanding this correctly, especially the last paragraph, her argument seems to be, "Wings fans shouldn't be upset about free agency because this year FAs had reasons to go elsewhere". Which, apparently, is totally different than every other year when free agents just sign willy nilly. Daniel Alfredsson leaves Ottawa after 17 years and it's "time for a change of scenery", but Dan Boyle signs with NYR and it's "couldn't be avoided, he and Martin St. Louis played together ten years ago".

She actually suggested that Niskanen signed in Washington because his former coach now coaches there. As if that's special. If that's all it takes to woo FAs can we hurry up and hire some former assistant coaches?

http://www.freep.com/article/20140703/SPORTS05/307030047/detroit-red-wings-optimism

Edited by kipwinger

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It's a long post, so I bolded the things I agree with, and italicized the things I don't. My main counterpoints are as follows: 1) The fact that we're not having losing seasons is not a good reason to avoid making smart personnel moves. Pittsburgh fired their GM and coach after 4 or 5 early playoff exits. We pat ours on the back and tell them they did a good job because at least they weren't as bad as Buffalo 2) Our standards as an organization should be higher than "competing in a weak conference". Holland used to say he wanted to challenge for the cup every year. Now he's content to scrape into the playoffs and "see what happens. 3) It's not either/or when it comes to letting kids play vs. acquiring pieces we need. We've got more kids than spots. Some of them can be used to acquire players that help us now. We can't give all of Quellet, Sproul, Marchenko, Backman, and Jenson spots. Not while keeping Knonwall, Ericsson, Smith, and Dekeyser. Likewise there's probably not enough room for all of Nyquist, Tatar, Jurco, Pulkkinen, Sheahan, Mantha with the roster we have. And IF you keep all those guys then there's definitely not room for all of Helm, Glendening, Miller, Abby. And all of that is assuming that Kindl is traded, Lashoff is traded, Andersson is traded.

Oh, and before the ill advised Quincey signing we also had about 14 million in cap space to do it.

Fact is, we've got more than enough assets to make our team competitive now without mortgaging the organization's future. So why not do it?

You make some good counter points sir, so I will respond in kind.

While yes it is perfectly acceptable to make personnel changes without having losing seasons, I think our club has direction for the next couple of years and is trending up - that being the maturity and addition to the lineup of young, high potential players which complement our core players and provide vital depth. I don't think we can sit here and blame KH for not being able to sign FA's. Nor trading for the likes of Kesler, Spezza. If they don;t want to come it doesn't matter what it costs. (but we've been over that a thousand times elsewhere).

The fact that the East is a weak conference right now is simply that. A fact. Obviously, that is something we can use to our advantage. But I don;t feel KH has become satisfied. Would everyone be bashing him if he'd been able to sign Niskanen? Last year he got the top 2 free agents on his list - what if Weiss hadn't been a bust and had potted 60 points? Lambast me for this all you will, but it's a different era now, and as teams are re-signing their key players before they hit free agency, you're going to have to give up a ton in a trade. I'm not adverse to trading for the right guy, if the price is right obviously. But I wonder right now if KH is holding onto his pieces until we are in the position where such an acquisition would put us over the top.

This feeds into the lack of roster spots point you make also. Not all of those guys are NHL ready right now. But maybe, by the time march rolls around, if this team is doing really well, then we can use a couple of those pieces to acquire that top 2 D man we so desperately need.

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If you hate Helen St. James as much as I do, do yourself a favor and read this. It takes hackery to an entirely new level. If I'm understanding this correctly, especially the last paragraph, her argument seems to be, "Wings fans shouldn't be upset about free agency because this year FAs had reasons to go elsewhere". Which, apparently, is totally different than every other year when free agents just sign willy nilly. Daniel Alfredsson leaves Ottawa after 17 years and it's "time for a change of scenery", but Dan Boyle signs with NYR and it's "couldn't be avoided, he and Martin St. Louis played together ten years ago".

She actually suggested that Niskanen signed in Washington because his former coach now coaches there. As if that's special. If that's all it takes to woo FAs can we hurry up and hire some former assistant coaches?

http://www.freep.com/article/20140703/SPORTS05/307030047/detroit-red-wings-optimism

I hate her journalism, but I do think there's some merit in the idea that players are signing contracts to teams that can provide familiarity. It was the main theme of the Suter and Parise sweepstakes, and they ended up together, in Minnesota, with family. The Sudin twins refuse to be separated. We recently saw two of the Staals united in Carolina. Weiss signs in Detroit, having been familiar with the area during his time with the Whalers. Dekeyser has been a Red Wing in his mind all throughout his hockey development, growing up in Michigan. This whole Niskanen thing seemed to play out similarly. Niskanen relied on Orpik to scout out Washington and the team and let him know what Orpik thought. It certainly doesn't hurt that his former coach was also in the system (Niskanen actually mentioned the familiarity of playing for his old asst coach and playing with Orpik as one of the reasons he went to Washington here: http://video.nhl.com/videocenter/console?catid=2&id=627797〈=en).

I don't think these things mattered so much in the past, because there was no cap and team contracts weren't equal. Now, if you want to get paid, the only teams that can afford an outrageous contract are bottom feeders, while the most competitive teams are tight against the cap. There's now a $ value for each player, and there isn't going to be much difference in contract amount offered between playoff teams (maybe a million or so, or year or two). If contracts are roughly equal, why not sign with the team where your old friends are playing, or that team that's near where you grew up?

Having said that, it's still an issue that the Wings organization needs to overcome. Erhoff signed with the Pens on a discount and short term presumably to be on a team that has a chance at the Cup, or play with Crosby/Malkin. Richards signed in Chicago, again, likely because of their odds of winning a Cup, and maybe playing alongside Kane/Toews etc. Holland needs to do something to the team to make players want to come here over going to places that can provide familiarity. The first step is moving the Wings from a fringe playoff team to one that is expected to go deep every year. I personally think that starts with a top 2 defensman ala Yandle (or someone at that level). We aren't going to get a top player in free agency. They can go anywhere and get the same money Holland can offer them, but also play in front of family or whatever elsewhere. This needs to happen via a trade (which I absolutely hate, because trades are such an inefficient way to acquire a player), or we can wait and see if one of our prospects develops into a franchise player. I guess the bottom line here is that Holland needs to change his game plan from expecting to get top talent in free agency every year to fill in the holes, and start actively working on making free agents want to come here.

Edited by Echolalia

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