Alfie informs Wings he wants to return

[Nightfall 871]

mar, I fully understand the rebuilding process, I just wish we would do it or go for the cup. I don't mind if we have 2-3 losing seasons, get highly rated top draft choices and then begin the next 15 year run. Its the half a$$ patch and pug approach that bothers me. We are not getting better and we are not getting the young high end talent we need to get better.

When it comes to bad for long periods of time, I remember the 70's all to well. The RW's had no real plan. Very similar to what we are doing today.

Rebuilding through the draft really is the key. You are right that we don't have the next Dats and Zetterberg in the system right now. We have some solid talent, but nothing really elite. As for going for broke, I really don't believe that is the best way to run a team.

I will say that we are going to have some losing seasons down the road. We can't keep up this playoff streak forever. I would like them to make a couple moves, stay competitive, and get into the playoffs. This season, the #6 and #7 teams made it to the finals. Anything can happen come playoff time.

[e_prime 1,936]

So... Alfie or Iginla?

Choose one. Choose wisely.

EDIT: For the record, Dreger stated we have interest on TSN.

Edited June 25, 2014 by e_prime

[marcaractac 3,960]

So... Alfie or Iginla?

Choose one. Choose wisely.

Either would be a great fit for one season. If healthy I'd love to see Alfie back, but Iggy can provide pretty much the same in terms scoring and leadership. Both players looked underwhelming in the playoffs (with Alfie of course getting big time overplayed in Sochi), so regardless of which, my guess would be limited minutes during the season with no back to back games to keep them as fresh as possible for April. An Olympic-free year would definitely do Alfie wonders. It basically comes down to Alfie being familiar with the team/system Vs Iggy being a tougher player.

[e_prime 1,936]

I gotta go Iggy.

[GoWings1905 2,694]

So... Alfie or Iginla?

Choose one. Choose wisely.

EDIT: For the record, Dreger stated we have interest on TSN.

Iginla, for me. Younger, had a strong season in Boston and I think could still do some damage on Datsyuk's wing. That's why I think the Wings should, if nothing else, hold off on signing Alfie until free agency begins and they can assess other possible options. Alfie isn't going to play anywhere else.

[Datsyukian-Deke 722]

wings trade 1st pick for 2nd + 3rd

boyle signs july 1st.

alfie signs july 2nd.

holland goes on to say...now we can see where mantha fits into our plans during training camp.." i like our team"

cleary gets 2 way deal in august....fails to make wings lineup....ends up retiring.

book it.

I hope we get more than that if we trade our first pick. Remember last year our pick wasn't as high and we traded it for another first round pick and a second round pick.

[Detroit # 1 Fan 2,204]

So... Alfie or Iginla?

Choose one. Choose wisely.

EDIT: For the record, Dreger stated we have interest on TSN.

Iggy. Younger, more durable, bigger, tougher, better goal scorer. I don't see him leaving the B's to come here, though it'd be cool.

[Z and D for the C 712]

As long as it doesn't prevent signing a real top 6 winger, I'm all for it. He was pretty good last year.

[PavelValerievichDatsyuk 1,935]

mar, I fully understand the rebuilding process, I just wish we would do it or go for the cup. I don't mind if we have 2-3 losing seasons, get highly rated top draft choices and then begin the next 15 year run. Its the half a$$ patch and pug approach that bothers me. We are not getting better and we are not getting the young high end talent we need to get better.

When it comes to bad for long periods of time, I remember the 70's all to well. The RW's had no real plan. Very similar to what we are doing today.

It sounds like you think the only way to rebuild is to tank. There is many examples around the league to show that strategy doesn't always work.

This team is rebuilding and we're doing it while making the playoffs and keeping a competitive team. We are getting better as our young players are getting better. I don't know how you could have watched Nyquist, Tatar, Dekeyser, Jurco, Sheahan, etc. and not thought of them as "the young high end talent we need to get better."

[marcaractac 3,960]

I hope we get more than that if we trade our first pick. Remember last year our pick wasn't as high and we traded it for another first round pick and a second round pick.

Teams might not be so willing to help us after Holland turned those 2 picks into Mantha and Little Bert

[PavelValerievichDatsyuk 1,935]

So It's a little more complicated:

http://kuklaskorner.com/tmr/comments/no-jack-adams-for-mike-babcock-but-red-wings-coach-gm-make-intriguing-remar

"We'd love to have him. We'd love for him to get healthy, but at this point things haven't turned in the right direction for him. We'll see what happens."

Babcock said the goal is to have him in training camp, but he's not sure if he will come in under contract, if he comes in at all. He said the Red Wings do not think Alfredsson requires any surgery.

"He's going to continue to go and then we'll work something out," Babcock said. "He's not going anywhere else. He's coming to Detroit if he's coming. He's not under contract with us yet, but we know where he lives. He's gotta get fixed before we do anything."

[e_prime 1,936]

That's a level of complexity that I'd like to avoid if possible. We don't need a guy that isn't fully healthy and/or can easily break again. Weiss is already a HUGE question mark. Both Z and D had their issues this past year. Franzen and Helm are also regulars on the shelf.

It would be interesting to bring Alfie to camp with no contract. For better or worse... but knowing Holland, we will have the cap space to sign him before the season begins. The question will be... will there be a roster spot?

[marcaractac 3,960]

That's a level of complexity that I'd like to avoid if possible. We don't need a guy that isn't fully healthy and/or can easily break again. Weiss is already a HUGE question mark. Both Z and D had their issues this past year. Franzen and Helm are also regulars on the shelf.

It would be interesting to bring Alfie to camp with no contract. For better or worse... but knowing Holland, we will have the cap space to sign him before the season begins. The question will be... will there be a roster spot?

I'm getting the impression if Alfie gets healthy, wants to play, and there is cap space for him, he'll be back. I'm glad they aren't just jumping the gun and signing him and hoping for the best.

As far as other names you have mentioned, I think Weiss will have a big bounce back year.He seems very focused on conditioning this summer and if healthy he will be an important player. Hopefully Pasha can stay healthy. If the kids keep improving that will make things easier on him. I think Hank will have a big season now that he finally has his back fixed. Like Quincey said, it is the same type of surgery he has had, and health-wise he has been fine. The fact that Hank said he felt like a new man soon as he woke up from surgery is also very promising. I can see him having a big season without his back hindering him.

The emergence of the kids will also help Mule a lot. With depth that can score, there is less pressure on him. As long as he can play responsible in his own end when he isn't scoring, no harm. A cold streak doesn't necessarily make him a liability.

Now for Helm. When you look at the injuries he has had, it was more bad luck than anything. Sure he is a player who will miss a few games here and there because of his style. But things like his back, sliced tendons, groin issues after trying to come back after barely playing for almost 2 years. Not the types of things players have to deal with regularly. I think he will be fine this year. Kronwall used to have the same issues. A lot of bad luck. Dekeyser had a couple unfortunate injuries himself.

[number9 3,297]

I'm getting the impression if Alfie gets healthy, wants to play, and there is cap space for him, he'll be back. I'm glad they aren't just jumping the gun and signing him and hoping for the best.

As far as other names you have mentioned, I think Weiss will have a big bounce back year.He seems very focused on conditioning this summer and if healthy he will be an important player. Hopefully Pasha can stay healthy. If the kids keep improving that will make things easier on him. I think Hank will have a big season now that he finally has his back fixed. Like Quincey said, it is the same type of surgery he has had, and health-wise he has been fine. The fact that Hank said he felt like a new man soon as he woke up from surgery is also very promising. I can see him having a big season without his back hindering him.

The emergence of the kids will also help Mule a lot. With depth that can score, there is less pressure on him. As long as he can play responsible in his own end when he isn't scoring, no harm. A cold streak doesn't necessarily make him a liability.

Now for Helm. When you look at the injuries he has had, it was more bad luck than anything. Sure he is a player who will miss a few games here and there because of his style. But things like his back, sliced tendons, groin issues after trying to come back after barely playing for almost 2 years. Not the types of things players have to deal with regularly. I think he will be fine this year. Kronwall used to have the same issues. A lot of bad luck. Dekeyser had a couple unfortunate injuries himself.

You must be drunk. Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Franzen, and Helm WILL play a combined 4 games and Weiss is a joke. Unless we sign Vanek, Gaborik, Niskanen, and Callahan we will go out in the first round AGAIN and we'll be no better than Florida and Buffalo.

Holland smokes too much Cleary to do anything even close to intelligent.

Oh, also need to buyout Franzen, trade for Weber, and somehow acquire Ekblad. Can you get that through your noggan? Or are you too busy wearing your rose tinted spectacles?

[marcaractac 3,960]

You must be drunk. Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Franzen, and Helm WILL play a combined 4 games and Weiss is a joke. Unless we sign Vanek, Gaborik, Niskanen, and Callahan we will go out in the first round AGAIN and we'll be no better than Florida and Buffalo.

Holland smokes too much Cleary to do anything even close to intelligent.

Oh, also need to buyout Franzen, trade for Weber, and somehow acquire Ekblad. Can you get that through your noggan? Or are you too busy wearing your rose tinted spectacles?

Dammit you're right. Maybe Holland can sign that Lebron feller? I hear he is free.

Edit: I'm sure Kindl and LAshoff can land us Weber. 2 players for one, how can they refuse?!

Edited June 25, 2014 by marcaractac

[number9 3,297]

Dammit you're right. Maybe Holland can sign that Lebron feller? I hear he is free.

Edit: I'm sure Kindl and LAshoff can land us Weber. 2 players for one, how can they refuse?!

Finally you're talking some sense

[FlashyG 1,799]

Iginla, for me. Younger, had a strong season in Boston and I think could still do some damage on Datsyuk's wing. That's why I think the Wings should, if nothing else, hold off on signing Alfie until free agency begins and they can assess other possible options. Alfie isn't going to play anywhere else.

Definitely Iginla, but the only reason Iginla is even considering leaving Boston is because they have a cap crisis on the horizon and they can't afford to commit to him for more than one year.

His hope is that if he can't sign there he can get a deal with another eastern conference team for multiple years.

Do we want to commit multiple years to him at around the 5.5 or higher he's seeking? I'd lean towards yes still but it makes it a much tougher call.

[thegerkin 189]

"We'd love to have him. We'd love for him to get healthy, but at this point things haven't turned in the right direction for him. We'll see what happens."

Babcock said the goal is to have him in training camp, but he's not sure if he will come in under contract, if he comes in at all. He said the Red Wings do not think Alfredsson requires any surgery.

"He's going to continue to go and then we'll work something out," Babcock said. "He's not going anywhere else. He's coming to Detroit if he's coming. He's not under contract with us yet, but we know where he lives. He's gotta get fixed before we do anything."

Haha

[e_prime 1,936]

I'm getting the impression if Alfie gets healthy, wants to play, and there is cap space for him, he'll be back. I'm glad they aren't just jumping the gun and signing him and hoping for the best.

As far as other names you have mentioned, I think Weiss will have a big bounce back year.He seems very focused on conditioning this summer and if healthy he will be an important player. Hopefully Pasha can stay healthy. If the kids keep improving that will make things easier on him. I think Hank will have a big season now that he finally has his back fixed. Like Quincey said, it is the same type of surgery he has had, and health-wise he has been fine. The fact that Hank said he felt like a new man soon as he woke up from surgery is also very promising. I can see him having a big season without his back hindering him.

The emergence of the kids will also help Mule a lot. With depth that can score, there is less pressure on him. As long as he can play responsible in his own end when he isn't scoring, no harm. A cold streak doesn't necessarily make him a liability.

Now for Helm. When you look at the injuries he has had, it was more bad luck than anything. Sure he is a player who will miss a few games here and there because of his style. But things like his back, sliced tendons, groin issues after trying to come back after barely playing for almost 2 years. Not the types of things players have to deal with regularly. I think he will be fine this year. Kronwall used to have the same issues. A lot of bad luck. Dekeyser had a couple unfortunate injuries himself.

Trust me... I WANT TO BELIEVE.

I certainly didn't want my post to come off as a "I don't like any of these guys, get 'em out, they're going to get injuried, we're going to fail." type post.

Definitely Iginla, but the only reason Iginla is even considering leaving Boston is because they have a cap crisis on the horizon and they can't afford to commit to him for more than one year.

His hope is that if he can't sign there he can get a deal with another eastern conference team for multiple years.

Do we want to commit multiple years to him at around the 5.5 or higher he's seeking? I'd lean towards yes still but it makes it a much tougher call.

Two or Three years of Iginla is still two or three years of top-flight, fit as f***, determined to win a cup, Jerome Iginla. Do I want that on this team? Absolutely.

Him, a healthy crew, and a top pairing D-man puts us right back in the fight.

Edited June 25, 2014 by e_prime

[wings4thecup06 504]

If we could get Iginla that would be great, as I think his style of play is definitely something we need to augment the talents on the roster.

I still maintain that it would be great to get Alfie back in the lineup because he does bring a hell of a lot of good to this team, and if he's playing a reduced role he'll be healthier and able to contribute more. I think that was his downfall last season, he got overworked at the olympics, and then had to play more as guys started dropping like flies in the second half.

Neither of these guys though will help us win the Cup right now, but what they would do is enable our kids to grow and learn at their own pace rather than being thrust straight in at the deep end ala Edmonton, which will pave the way for success a couple of years down the line.

[Richdg 267]

It sounds like you think the only way to rebuild is to tank. There is many examples around the league to show that strategy doesn't always work.

This team is rebuilding and we're doing it while making the playoffs and keeping a competitive team. We are getting better as our young players are getting better. I don't know how you could have watched Nyquist, Tatar, Dekeyser, Jurco, Sheahan, etc. and not thought of them as "the young high end talent we need to get better."

No what I said is you have to get top talent. Of the last 20 teams that won the SC, 70% of them had 4 or more top 10 picks on their roster when they won the cup. That is the proven path to winning. You can do that 3 ways: draft, trade, or UFA. Very few make it to ufa anymore so that leaves 2 options: draft and/or trade. Hoilland doesn't seem to have the guts or desire (whatever it is) to make trades. That leaves one option: the draft. To get top 10 picks and the premium talent you have to not make the playoffs. Or have bad seasons.

We are done with a 20 year run or so. But we were really bad for a long time. It was when we started to draft well, with a purpose, and develop the young talent that we started to win. yes we have some luck along the way and did things others were not doing like scout/draft eastern euros/russians. But the team from 95 through 02 was loaded with guys that were top 10 picks for various teams. Yzerman doesn't come if we don't lose. same with lapointe and Premieau. Prems of course becomes Shanny another top 10 pick. Not to mention picks up like Murphy and Ward.

Now of course there are exceptions to every rule. Our 08 team was one of them. But that is also why that teams core players have only won one cup.

Edited June 25, 2014 by Richdg

[anthonyn66 89]

No problems with this signing. For him to want to come back with the role he played last year (PP and 3rd/4th line) is admirable and says everything about his character, especially considering he went from being captain the year before.

[wings4thecup06 504]

No what I said is you have to get top talent. Of the last 20 teams that won the SC, 70% of them had 4 or more top 10 picks on their roster when they won the cup. That is the proven path to winning. You can do that 3 ways: draft, trade, or UFA. Very few make it to ufa anymore so that leaves 2 options: draft and/or trade. Hoilland doesn't seem to have the guts or desire (whatever it is) to make trades. That leaves one option: the draft. To get top 10 picks and the premium talent you have to not make the playoffs. Or have bad seasons.

We are done with a 20 year run or so. But we were really bad for a long time. It was when we started to draft well, with a purpose, and develop the young talent that we started to win. yes we have some luck along the way and did things others were not doing like scout/draft eastern euros/russians. But the team from 95 through 02 was loaded with guys that were top 10 picks for various teams. Yzerman doesn't come if we don't lose. same with lapointe and Premieau. Prems of course becomes Shanny another top 10 pick. Not to mention picks up like Murphy and Ward.

Now of course there are exceptions to every rule. Our 08 team was one of them. But that is also why that teams core players have only won one cup.

It's not the fact that he doesn't have the guts nor desire, it's more the fact that the need isn't necessarily there right now to trade. I mean, why, if you had a bunch of really good prospects who are practically ready to contribute and have shown that they will form the basis of your core for the next decade potentially, would you then choose to trade a bunch of them away in a deal where you're not going to get full return on? It doesn't make sense, just to pacify a few fans and just to make this team marginally better, when really, what will make it better for longer is letting the young guys develop properly so that they are good and leaders of this team, and then having to knack to deal a for a few key pieces to put us over the top. Like we did in 02. Like we did in 08.

[Richdg 267]

It's not the fact that he doesn't have the guts nor desire, it's more the fact that the need isn't necessarily there right now to trade. I mean, why, if you had a bunch of really good prospects who are practically ready to contribute and have shown that they will form the basis of your core for the next decade potentially, would you then choose to trade a bunch of them away in a deal where you're not going to get full return on? It doesn't make sense, just to pacify a few fans and just to make this team marginally better, when really, what will make it better for longer is letting the young guys develop properly so that they are good and leaders of this team, and then having to knack to deal a for a few key pieces to put us over the top. Like we did in 02. Like we did in 08.

So, the need isn't there. Ok cool. Glad you agree with me that we need to miss the playoffs and draft in the top 10. That is the path we are on right now. There is not enough talent in this organization today to win a cup, and IMHO even to continue to make the playoffs. So we can do 2 things. Continue on this path a crash out, or pick up stars now. Stars cost talent to get. 2-3 mid level prospects to get one star.

[joesuffP 1,746]

The market isn't there to acquire "top line winger" or "top pairing puck moving defensemen". This board can't even put a name to these players they want so bad because it simply isn't feasible. I'm predicting we see a trade made in the future of a can't miss perfect deal and you will all be glad we didn't sell the farm for whatever's available