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Kesler traded to Anaheim


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#61 jimmyemeryhunter

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Posted 29 June 2014 - 12:28 AM

The scouts advise him. If you think Holland makes every decision on his own, you are sorely mistaken. He relies on the scouts and trusts them, and he pick players off the list they come up with together.


I never said he did..
I Never even implied it.

#62 kipwinger

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Posted 29 June 2014 - 12:35 AM

If Holland's scouts are responsible for the picks he made as GM, then' he's responsible for the pics that happened when he was the head of scouting under other GMs.  You know, guys like Fedorov, Osgood, Holmstrom, Lidstrom, Konstantinov, Primeau, Kozlov, Sillinger, Lapointe, Knuble, and McCarty.

 

What a bum. 


GMRwings:  "Well, in other civilized countries, 16 years old isn't considered underage.  For instance, I believe the age of consent is 16 in Canada.  There's some US states where it's 16 as well.  

 

Get off the high horse.  Not like she was 10."

 

"Some girls are 17 even though they look 25."

 

 


#63 rick zombo

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Posted 29 June 2014 - 12:44 AM

Some of you may disagree with his approach to trades and UFA signings. Fair enough. 

 

But one thing Holland can do as a GM is run a draft.

 

I think we should all, as intelligent Wings fans, be able to agree on this. 


"In Detroit, every day is a good day to win"

#64 Euro_Twins

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Posted 29 June 2014 - 12:47 AM

Some of you may disagree with his approach to trades and UFA signings. Fair enough. 

 

But one thing Holland can do as a GM is run a draft.

 

I think we should all, as intelligent Wings fans, be able to agree on this. 

 

woah woah woah!!! who are YOU to call ME intelligent? the nerve of some people, I swear...


If Holland's scouts are responsible for the picks he made as GM, then' he's responsible for the pics that happened when he was the head of scouting under other GMs.  You know, guys like Fedorov, Osgood, Holmstrom, Lidstrom, Konstantinov, Primeau, Kozlov, Sillinger, Lapointe, Knuble, and McCarty.

 

What a bum. 

 

my god, when you lay it all out there, coupled with all the guys that were drafted with him as a gm, it really goes to show, he has no idea what he is doing



#65 jimmyemeryhunter

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Posted 29 June 2014 - 12:52 AM

Some of you may disagree with his approach to trades and UFA signings. Fair enough. 
 
But one thing Holland can do as a GM is run a draft.
 
I think we should all, as intelligent Wings fans, be able to agree on this. 

Five minutes ago I'd have agreed with you.
But he's clown shoes in the draft.

#66 gcom007

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Posted 29 June 2014 - 12:53 AM

@gcom007
I dont necessarily disagree with your points, just the conclusion youre coming to.

Five years ago our core players were in the midst of the prime of the careers, and we had arguably the best defenseman ofall time on the back end..
Realistically, noone would be able to replace half of what Lidstrom did night in and out, and anyone that would come close would eat up HUGE chunk of our cap space.

It'd be nice to have brought in Big names sure, but we've been successful for so long and brought in so Many outside guys it depleted the farm team, which in the parity days IS A NECESSITY to stand a chance of having any kind of sustainable success..

Yeah kh had made a few absolutely abysmal choices, but he's a huge part of the reason we have a team that can basically roll our ahl team onto the ice and still be competitive, all while were stocking talent.

So were not THE destination for free agents anymore.
Free agency isnt what it once was because of the cap, why not take the extra year and millions of dollars to stay in a comfortable place.

don't get me wrong.
I Really, really, really want z to win a cup as captain, and datsyuk deserves at least a few more.
but there's still going to be a salary cap when they're gone, we need to keep the kids rolling through so were not handcuffed like Pittsburgh is with Crosby and malkin.
Or like chicago could be if the reports on Kane and toews are true.

And when z retires, weve got danny Dekeyser, Gustav nyquist, Tatar....there will be plenty of options to be C, not even mentioning the talent coming up.


At some point reasons need to stop being referred to as excuses by those who don't understand the explanation.

And for all your disheveled statements about holland preparing for datsyuk and z, youre telling him to go out and build a bridge when weve got half a room full of kids who build dams.

 

Again, to be clear, bear in mind that I haven't once said that Holland failed because he didn't sign an elite defenseman. Sure, I think he should've tried to bring another higher level guy before Lidstrom left, and I say that knowing full well that it'd cost us a lot and it'd likely have compromised some of our offensive depth. I think if Holland had played the situation better, he would've been shopping for the high-end defenseman he wanted before Lidstrom retired, not after when our backs are against the wall and we have to deal with the loss of Stuart too. But whatever; it didn't happen and realistically that is a tougher thing to pull off. If it was just that, I wouldn't be upset, but as I said, what blows my mind is that he hasn't even brought in a guy that could fill a Stuart-sized hole.

 

Elite defenseman don't grow on trees, I get that, and it's ideal to not overpay for higher end guys if you can. But there are a lot more quality d-men out there that could fill in the hole Stuart left, and when you really think about just that hole being filled in the context of our current defense, it's not hard to see how much a guy like that would help, perhaps even dramatically. Even if we had to overpay a bit for an above-average mid-level defenseman, I think it would be well worth it, and again, it's something that Holland absolutely should've been able to have done at some point over the last three years.

 

But you know, even that wouldn't bother me quite so much if not for the fact that he seems to have forgotten that we lost three top four defensemen, and instead has spent more time signing old, typically washed up, mid-level scrubs that oftentimes have done nothing to help this team and have only burnt through cap space. And most would agree that they would've been overpaid had they even played, but when you consider that many didn't even play, my mind just goes numb when I turn to look at what he's done for the defense in the same span of time.

 

Bottom line, I'm really a lot less concerned with bringing in big names than most. It's always nice when you can find a high end guy who makes your team better, but it's foolish to think you're going to pull those deals off too often in the cap era. But if you can't find a way to plug holes with solid, dependable mid-level guys at least, you wind up in the sort of mess we've been in for awhile now.

 

You mention that he's the reason that we can roll teams that can be competitive with the Grand Rapids kids, but that clearly wasn't part of his plans in either of the last two years. We've stumbled into the playoffs the last couple of years largely based off the steam from GR call ups, but the team that Holland put together that was supposed to do the job either couldn't stay healthy or the players were so bad that they couldn't even beat a minor leaguer out for an NHL job on an injury-plagued team. Meanwhile, again, we're wasting valuable cap space on these guys Ken Holland signed to fill out the team, but we still don't want to overpay anyone who could actually contribute and fill a hole.

 

I don't know how involved Ken Holland is in our scouting program, but even so, it seems like the point your making illustrates that Holland doesn't have a good handle on the players he has. If these kids are good enough to beat out the guys he's signing and help the team make the playoffs, why are we wasting time and money signing guys that won't play when we could get these kids up and growing in the NHL, and at much cheaper prices than the mid-level scrubs they're winning spots from? I'll give him the benefit of the doubt when it comes to our scouting and drafting program, and it's why I've said that it'd be ideal to keep him in the organization if possible if we go in another direction at GM. But as said, I still think you have to stop and question our strategy with the kids and thus also with how we pursue outside talent via trade or free agency when you look at how the last couple of years have gone specifically. Maybe it's time to start thinking about building teams with AHLers that are ripe as opposed to waiting for them to be overripe, and use the extra cap space saved from using younger guys to be more aggressive in signing the mid-level talent that you know can make your team better and maintain a spot in the lineup.

 

But lastly, about the kids, I'm very optimistic, but I'm trying to be realistic too. Yes, we have half a room of kids with potential to build dams, but realistically speaking, if we're lucky, half of them will pan out to be solid NHLers, and only half of them will go full blown Ville Leino. It might sound negative or pessimistic, but realistically, it's pretty much inevitable. And as much as I'd like to be optimistic enough to believe Nyquist and Tatar could eventually fill the shoes of Z and Dats...and to be utterly and completely clear, I really like these guys, a lot, seriously, a lot...but if I'm being brutally honest with myself, I'd be shocked if they reached the levels of Z and Dats. They're real good players with a lot of potential and I hope they have long careers as Red Wings, but it's still way too early to expect them to become elite guys. It's possible, but I don't think either has the innate, almost supernatural talent of Dats, which truly was blatantly evident immediately, and Z is just an all around warrior of a player that few compare to. I'm not going to hold either player to the standards of Dats and Z at this point because it's simply not fair to them at all, and it's bound to lead to being unnecessarily disappointed in them. Furthermore, both Nyquist and Tatar completely disappeared in the playoffs, so clearly, they still have some learning to do and some important things to prove before we really get an idea of the level of players they'll be over the course of their careers. I'm not saying we should be worried, I'm just saying we should stay grounded and reasonable.

 

Long story short though, I like our kids, I really do, but we don't have any that you can be sure that you'll be able to build a team around, and we generally don't draft high enough to get the kind of players that are really worth taking those bigger bets on. If Holland wants to float in-between rebuilding mode and a tweaking mode, we need to do a better job of bringing in proven NHL talent that is at least good enough to crack the lineup on the regular and contribute to this team. Again, I'm not saying we need to sign or trade for superstars. Not at all. Obviously it's great to get those guys when you can, but at this point, we haven't even been able to successfully bring in outside mid-level talent! That's ultimately what does kill me about some of the Holland bashers, because they piss and moan about missing out on the big names when the real story and concern lies more in Holland's inability to recruit role players that can crack the lineup. And that's the worst part of this.

 

We still have a great core in Dats and Z. Kronwall is better suited to be a number two guys and loses some of his effectiveness in certain areas of his game having to be the number one guy, but even so, he's still a hell of defenseman. Jimmy at his worst is still capable of getting the job done if he gets a little bit better defense in front of him, and at his best, he's brilliant. If we'd do a better job of integrating our kids in a little sooner, trimming some of the washed-up veteran fat, and sucking it up and overpay if you have to a bit to bring in another solid top four defenseman, we'd be a lot closer to contender status. I've been saying it for years because I believe it fully: any team with Dats and Z in the lineup is a team capable of making the playoffs. I don't think we're nearly as far from being a contender as some think, but between the numerous bonehead moves Holland's made for forwards and his utter and complete lack of ability to bring in a proven NHL defenseman that solidifies our top four, the team just continues to slip deeper into a funk, and all the while the core guys are getting older and less-effective. It's just a real shame to me. 


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#67 kipwinger

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Posted 29 June 2014 - 12:56 AM

Well I definitely don't want to make it seem like Holland can't, and hasn't, made mistakes.  We know he does.  Particularly when it comes to player acquisition post 2005 lockout. 

 

But I'd agree with Rick in saying that despite his shortcomings, the draft is one area in which Holland has almost universally excelled. 


Edited by kipwinger, 29 June 2014 - 01:02 AM.

GMRwings:  "Well, in other civilized countries, 16 years old isn't considered underage.  For instance, I believe the age of consent is 16 in Canada.  There's some US states where it's 16 as well.  

 

Get off the high horse.  Not like she was 10."

 

"Some girls are 17 even though they look 25."

 

 


#68 Euro_Twins

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Posted 29 June 2014 - 12:58 AM

 

Again, to be clear, bear in mind that I haven't once said that Holland failed because he didn't sign an elite defenseman. Sure, I think he should've tried to bring another higher level guy before Lidstrom left, and I say that knowing full well that it'd cost us a lot and it'd likely have compromised some of our offensive depth. I think if Holland had played the situation better, he would've been shopping for the high-end defenseman he wanted before Lidstrom retired, not after when our backs are against the wall and we have to deal with the loss of Stuart too. But whatever; it didn't happen and realistically that is a tougher thing to pull off. If it was just that, I wouldn't be upset, but as I said, what blows my mind is that he hasn't even brought in a guy that could fill a Stuart-sized hole.

 

Elite defenseman don't grow on trees, I get that, and it's ideal to not overpay for higher end guys if you can. But there are a lot more quality d-men out there that could fill in the hole Stuart left, and when you really think about just that hole being filled in the context of our current defense, it's not hard to see how much a guy like that would help, perhaps even dramatically. Even if we had to overpay a bit for an above-average mid-level defenseman, I think it would be well worth it, and again, it's something that Holland absolutely should've been able to have done at some point over the last three years.

 

But you know, even that wouldn't bother me quite so much if not for the fact that he seems to have forgotten that we lost three top four defensemen, and instead has spent more time signing old, typically washed up, mid-level scrubs that oftentimes have done nothing to help this team and have only burnt through cap space. And most would agree that they would've been overpaid had they even played, but when you consider that many didn't even play, my mind just goes numb when I turn to look at what he's done for the defense in the same span of time.

 

Bottom line, I'm really a lot less concerned with bringing in big names than most. It's always nice when you can find a high end guy who makes your team better, but it's foolish to think you're going to pull those deals off too often in the cap era. But if you can't find a way to plug holes with solid, dependable mid-level guys at least, you wind up in the sort of mess we've been in for awhile now.

 

You mention that he's the reason that we can roll teams that can be competitive with the Grand Rapids kids, but that clearly wasn't part of his plans in either of the last two years. We've stumbled into the playoffs the last couple of years largely based off the steam from GR call ups, but the team that Holland put together that was supposed to do the job either couldn't stay healthy or the players were so bad that they couldn't even beat a minor leaguer out for an NHL job on an injury-plagued team. Meanwhile, again, we're wasting valuable cap space on these guys Ken Holland signed to fill out the team, but we still don't want to overpay anyone who could actually contribute and fill a hole.

 

I don't know how involved Ken Holland is in our scouting program, but even so, it seems like the point your making illustrates that Holland doesn't have a good handle on the players he has. If these kids are good enough to beat out the guys he's signing and help the team make the playoffs, why are we wasting time and money signing guys that won't play when we could get these kids up and growing in the NHL, and at much cheaper prices than the mid-level scrubs they're winning spots from? I'll give him the benefit of the doubt when it comes to our scouting and drafting program, and it's why I've said that it'd be ideal to keep him in the organization if possible if we go in another direction at GM. But as said, I still think you have to stop and question our strategy with the kids and thus also with how we pursue outside talent via trade or free agency when you look at how the last couple of years have gone specifically. Maybe it's time to start thinking about building teams with AHLers that are ripe as opposed to waiting for them to be overripe, and use the extra cap space saved from using younger guys to be more aggressive in signing the mid-level talent that you know can make your team better and maintain a spot in the lineup.

 

But lastly, about the kids, I'm very optimistic, but I'm trying to be realistic too. Yes, we have half a room of kids with potential to build dams, but realistically speaking, if we're lucky, half of them will pan out to be solid NHLers, and only half of them will go full blown Ville Leino. It might sound negative or pessimistic, but realistically, it's pretty much inevitable. And as much as I'd like to be optimistic enough to believe Nyquist and Tatar could eventually fill the shoes of Z and Dats...and to be utterly and completely clear, I really like these guys, a lot, seriously, a lot...but if I'm being brutally honest with myself, I'd be shocked if they reached the levels of Z and Dats. They're real good players with a lot of potential and I hope they have long careers as Red Wings, but it's still way too early to expect them to become elite guys. It's possible, but I don't think either has the innate, almost supernatural talent of Dats, which truly was blatantly evident immediately, and Z is just an all around warrior of a player that few compare to. I'm not going to hold either player to the standards of Dats and Z at this point because it's simply not fair to them at all, and it's bound to lead to being unnecessarily disappointed in them. Furthermore, both Nyquist and Tatar completely disappeared in the playoffs, so clearly, they still have some learning to do and some important things to prove before we really get an idea of the level of players they'll be over the course of their careers. I'm not saying we should be worried, I'm just saying we should stay grounded and reasonable.

 

Long story short though, I like our kids, I really do, but we don't have any that you can be sure that you'll be able to build a team around, and we generally don't draft high enough to get the kind of players that are really worth taking those bigger bets on. If Holland wants to float in-between rebuilding mode and a tweaking mode, we need to do a better job of bringing in proven NHL talent that is at least good enough to crack the lineup on the regular and contribute to this team. Again, I'm not saying we need to sign or trade for superstars. Not at all. Obviously it's great to get those guys when you can, but at this point, we haven't even been able to successfully bring in outside mid-level talent! That's ultimately what does kill me about some of the Holland bashers, because they piss and moan about missing out on the big names when the real story and concern lies more in Holland's inability to recruit role players that can crack the lineup. And that's the worst part of this.

 

We still have a great core in Dats and Z. Kronwall is better suited to be a number two guys and loses some of his effectiveness in certain areas of his game having to be the number one guy, but even so, he's still a hell of defenseman. Jimmy at his worst is still capable of getting the job done if he gets a little bit better defense in front of him, and at his best, he's brilliant. If we'd do a better job of integrating our kids in a little sooner, trimming some of the washed-up veteran fat, and sucking it up and overpay if you have to a bit to bring in another solid top four defenseman, we'd be a lot closer to contender status. I've been saying it for years because I believe it fully: any team with Dats and Z in the lineup is a team capable of making the playoffs. I don't think we're nearly as far from being a contender as some think, but between the numerous bonehead moves Holland's made for forwards and his utter and complete lack of ability to bring in a proven NHL defenseman that solidifies our top four, the team just continues to slip deeper into a funk, and all the while the core guys are getting older and less-effective. It's just a real shame to me. 

 

:lol:



#69 jimmyemeryhunter

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Posted 29 June 2014 - 01:00 AM

Yeah.
I thought I'd jump on the sarcasm bandwagon
They draft well.

#70 Euro_Twins

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Posted 29 June 2014 - 01:01 AM

I never said he did..
I Never even implied it.

 

yeah, sorry. meant to quote DeGraa55



#71 number9

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Posted 29 June 2014 - 01:08 AM

I don't know what Red Wings drafting has to do with Kesler and the Ducks but yeah we draft well.

 

Unless Anaheim's young players really become elite this year, which could happen, I don't think Kesler puts them anywhere close to over the top.



#72 jimmyemeryhunter

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Posted 29 June 2014 - 01:19 AM

@gcom007
Im almost 100% positive he's aware how fast he lost 3/4 d men, and you're not giving him his due.
id take Ericsson over Stuart any day.
I'd take dd now over the last two years of rafalski.

He filled from within, which would've gotten praise had he landed an elite defender, unfortunately he couldnt pull it off.

And that's not being negative, its realistic.
Prospects don't always turn out like you thought, but I kind of believe those players have already played the way off the team, they went bad instead of turning overripe.

And Holland signed players.for depth.
It sucks those depth players were bert, and Cleary and it was unfortunate that nyq had to sit out to start, but we needed the the veteran presence whenever we could get it last year.
The only one I really full heartedly.didn't like was Sammy.

#73 gcom007

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Posted 29 June 2014 - 01:21 AM

Some of you may disagree with his approach to trades and UFA signings. Fair enough. 

 

But one thing Holland can do as a GM is run a draft.

 

I think we should all, as intelligent Wings fans, be able to agree on this. 

 

Absolutely. Again, as said, I think it's getting to the point where we need a fresh perspective from a GM. But if we can do so while keeping Holland in the organization, it's a win-win. Again, I don't know how intimately involved he is in all of the processes that go into drafting, but I can't take anything away from the success we've had drafting, and I'm more than willing to give him the benefit of the doubt on that front.

 

To be utterly and completely clear, I don't think the guy is an idiot at all. And to be honest, if he became the GM of another team, I wouldn't be shocked at all if he built a great program from the ground up. I don't doubt the guys hockey sense and I don't doubt the quality of his "craft" I suppose you could say. 

 

What I doubt is his ability to still effectively apply his craft at the GM position in Detroit. He's a loyal guy, and perhaps a sentimental guy, which in so many ways are great traits to have when you're talking about being a good human being. But I think it's become abundantly clear that these traits haven't served him so well in the cap era. I'm generally a loyal guy and somewhat sentimental as well, and there's a part of me that hates the idea of letting guys like Cleary go, or not giving Bert one more "one more last chance" at a Cup, but you've got to be realistic about what's best for the team and make some tough decisions. You've also got to get more comfortable with the idea of bringing in guys you're less familiar with, because again, clearly, the old guys have been mediocre at best and oftentimes total disasters.

 

That Holland is even entertaining the idea of bringing Cleary back after last year is colossally worrying to me, and I wasn't even one of the one's that worked up about it last year. Look it up; I was pretty neutral about it while the majority of people lost their s***. But the writing is no longer just on the wall, it's evolved into a Cloverfield monster that can speak, and it's hissing and screaming: "HANG THEM UP, DANNY BOY!"

 

Again, I respect the guy for his loyalty and I can relate to being sentimental, but his judgement just seems too clouded by these traits anymore when it comes to personnel decisions, and I can say that not even accounting for my frustration with his resistance to moving guys we developed like Flip to make room for say,f****** Marian Hossa (!!!), when you have the chance to sign him to a lifetime deal at a great cap hit. But no, we'll stand by our guys, lose some of them to free agency immediately because they're not as loyal to us, then continue to keep hoping for that elusive breakout year from others, and then we won't even move them at the deadline a few years later when it's obvious we're going to lose them to free agency...I'm sorry, that one just still burns so much.

 

Bottom line, again, I think Holland is an important part of this organization, and I'd like to see him stay a part of it on some level, but I think it's time for someone new to take over the GM role. Holland had a great run, and he probably would've been wise to stick to his "joke" and pass the torch when Lidstrom retired.


-Elliot...does not panic.

#74 gcom007

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Posted 29 June 2014 - 01:26 AM

 

:lol:

 

Being a history major in college for four years was just a terrible thing for me. We ended up writing 3-4 papers a week, all in the 10-20 page range. When you have to churn out that much writing constantly, you learn to just spew; it's a survival tactic. I finally quit being a history major when I realized I really didn't want to go to law school, but the damage was done. I no longer have a concise bone in my body when it comes to writing, and I have nof****** clue how to get over it!


-Elliot...does not panic.

#75 number9

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Posted 29 June 2014 - 01:31 AM

 

Being a history major in college for four years was just a terrible thing for me. We ended up writing 3-4 papers a week, all in the 10-20 page range. When you have to churn out that much writing constantly, you learn to just spew; it's a survival tactic. I finally quit being a history major when I realized I really didn't want to go to law school, but the damage was done. I no longer have a concise bone in my body when it comes to writing, and I have nof****** clue how to get over it!

 

The funny part is law school would have taught you to write concisely lol

 

Source: Law grad



#76 gcom007

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Posted 29 June 2014 - 01:56 AM

@gcom007
Im almost 100% positive he's aware how fast he lost 3/4 d men, and you're not giving him his due.
id take Ericsson over Stuart any day.
I'd take dd now over the last two years of rafalski.

He filled from within, which would've gotten praise had he landed an elite defender, unfortunately he couldnt pull it off.

And that's not being negative, its realistic.
Prospects don't always turn out like you thought, but I kind of believe those players have already played the way off the team, they went bad instead of turning overripe.

And Holland signed players.for depth.
It sucks those depth players were bert, and Cleary and it was unfortunate that nyq had to sit out to start, but we needed the the veteran presence whenever we could get it last year.
The only one I really full heartedly.didn't like was Sammy.

 

He would've gotten his praise if he'd just add another Stuart into the mix. You're not going to pull Lidstroms and Rafalski's out of your hat very often at all, but if you can't do that, you need more average core guys. I don't think you're really giving Rafalski his full due, even considering his fading performance in the last couple years, but DD is definitely a solid edition either way, and Ericsson has become better than many including myself expected. I think you might not be giving Stuart his full due either though when you say you'd take Ericsson over him any day, but my point isn't to compare. Like I said, I can easily reconcile the fact that we didn't land an elite defenseman to fill the hole left by Lidstrom. What I don't understand is why after failing to land some of the bigger names we were after, in three years since Rafalski retired and two years since Lidstrom and Stuart retired/left, why haven't we found a way to bring in another defenseman who at least solidifies our top four? Again, to be abundantly clear because I don't think people get this at all, I'm not talking about bring in an elite defenseman, I'm talking about bringing in a dependable mid-level defenseman that should cost around $4 million but you end up overpaying at closer to $5 million, or you have to trade a prospect you like.

 

Our defense isn't great by any means, but given that we lost Lidstrom, Rafalski and Stuart in the span of a year, it's utterly and completely shocking that we're not way worse, especially considering how many minutes some of those jokers ended up playing down the stretch.

 

Seriously, imagine how much better our defense would be with another top-four defenseman...

 

It might not seem like much, but take a second to really stop and think about the fact that we had to rely so much on Kindl, Lashoff and Quincey, and the fact that Smith and DD are still developing, and Kronwall ultimately is a reluctant number one, and Ericsson, while improved, is still a little bit of the classic Ericsson from time to time.

 

Having a solid veteran in the mix that easily cracks the top four doesn't automatically make us a contender or make the defense great, but it would make the whole situation a whole lot more solid to the point that if and when Howard gets back to playing like we know he can, we're really not going to be hurting as much from losing Lidstrom as we thought we might be.

 

But it doesn't matter, because Holland has been too busy signing old, broken, knee-skaters to play forward instead of finding a way to make a deal for a solid defenseman that would instantly make this team a lot better.

 

That is the sort of thing that just kills me about Holland.

 

And I liked Bert more than most at his price, and as said, part of me even was fine with signing Cleary last year. I don't dislike these guys completely. But would I rather roll with a few more kids and spend a little bit more to bring in veterans that I know will be able to crack the lineup when healthy? Absolutely. We still end up overpaying for the veteran scrubs we keep scraping from the bottom of a long dry well, so why not role with a few more cheaper kids and  pay a bit more money to sign better mid-level vets/role players? Holland talks like he doesn't want to overpay guys, but his actions say he just doesn't want to overpay guys he's never employed before. He's proven that he's perfectly willing to overpay former Wings that want to come back to pad their retirement savings after being abandoned by the teams they left us for.


-Elliot...does not panic.

#77 gcom007

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Posted 29 June 2014 - 02:10 AM

 

The funny part is law school would have taught you to write concisely lol

 

Source: Law grad

 

Ha. I still sometimes question my decision. I was doubling in history and economics with a minor in PR and doing 18 credit loads year round essentially, given the 9 credit loads I took in the spring and summer terms. I think I ultimately made the right choice for me when it comes to skipping law school, but I went from one extreme to another academically, largely out of frustration and exhaustion, not to mention a dismal economic outlook. Enter idealism and the whole "do what you love" thing. Now I have...a music degree...that I don't use in the I.T. jobs that pay most of my bills.

 

Life.


-Elliot...does not panic.

#78 number9

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Posted 29 June 2014 - 02:33 AM

 

Ha. I still sometimes question my decision. I was doubling in history and economics with a minor in PR and doing 18 credit loads year round essentially, given the 9 credit loads I took in the spring and summer terms. I think I ultimately made the right choice for me when it comes to skipping law school, but I went from one extreme to another academically, largely out of frustration and exhaustion, not to mention a dismal economic outlook. Enter idealism and the whole "do what you love" thing. Now I have...a music degree...that I don't use in the I.T. jobs that pay most of my bills.

 

Life.

 

 

Don't worry, there are so many attorneys these days that most most can't find work.

 

I saw Kesler at a Tigers game once with Chris Conner. He's indeed 6'2" and hits a lot, but he looked all of 180 lbs when I saw him. Skinny as a rail. He's a hot head who could learn from Kronwall. He'll be perfect for the Ducks.



#79 wings4thecup06

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Posted 29 June 2014 - 04:41 AM

See I don't even think that we do need a fresh approach at GM. I think this is actually been the plan all along possibly, since about 2011. We didn't get Suter, and we drafted 4 defensemen who could be the cornerstones of our blue line for years to come in that draft and by that point we had guys like Nyquist, Tatar and co rising through the system. KH knew the way to get back to the top after losing Lids and Rafalski and missing out on Suter wasn't to trade the future for now now now, it was to quietly build up the prospects we had into great NHL players who could then step in when they were ready and compliment a solid core. In the meantime, he patched up the holes with depth players to keep us competitive so that if/when the kids came in, they'd be entered into a winning environment. 

 

This is my theory that I'm going with here. I reckon they saw that they had some really good kids down the road in 2 years or so that might be able to have an impact, so they're simply sticking with the plan. Which is also why I don't think they'll make a big trade for that number 1 D man. They don't need it. Sproul, Ouellet and Marchenko will fill the void either this season or next, so why give up assets for a short term benefit that really isn't going to get you a cup, when you could have a much better blue line in 3 years? It really is all about the long game here, and I think we'll be pretty happy with the results when it comes to fruition. 


temp 1

 


#80 DickieDunn

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Posted 29 June 2014 - 09:27 AM

The scouts don't have final say in the pick.
Ken holland does.
Also.
A lot of the scouts are ken holland hires.

The scouts advise him. If you think Holland makes every decision on his own, you are sorely mistaken. He relies on the scouts and trusts them, and he pick players off the list they come up with together.


Exactly. He uses the people he hires properly, something a lot of bosses don't do.

I just think it's funny that his detractors blame him for everything they don't like because he has the final say (which he doesn't in the end, he has bosses too) but the good things happen because of everyone else.

Oh this young man has had a very trying rookie season, with the litigation, the notoriety, his subsequent deportation to Canada and that country's refusal to accept him, well, I guess that's more than most 21-year-olds can handle... Ogie Ogilthorpe!






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