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Kesler traded to Anaheim


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#81 Playmaker

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Posted 29 June 2014 - 11:19 AM

In Holland's defense, he did get someone to replace Brad Stuart.  Kyle Quincey.  Yes, it turned out to be a horrible trade, but at the time Quincey had put together a few solid years with the Kings and Avs and it didn't seem out of the question he could be a #4 type defenseman. 



#82 Playmaker

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Posted 29 June 2014 - 12:04 PM

Also, Ken Holland did have a plan to replace Lidstrom.  It was signing Ryan Suter.   The fact that he and Parise were going to tag team at the last minute and make themselves a package deal took everyone off guard.  They really didn't have the room to sign them both and from my recollection, Minnesota wasn't even considered to be in the mix originally.  That seemed to have come out of no where and surprised most of the hockey pundits.  Should he be blamed for putting all his eggs in one basket.  Probably.  But, after Suter was signed, there wasn't much left on the Free Agent heap after that.  He was kind of stuck.  They didn't have much in the way of young players or draft picks to part with to get anyone of quality.  While it's easy to say he should have "planned ahead", Lidstrom was talking about returning to Sweden for at least 5 years before he ultimately did.  It also wouldn't have surprised anyone if Nick had played another 2 or 3 years.  At what point do you bring in a replacement for him?  Then if he doesn't leave you have cap issues. 

 

As I said before,  when Holland was signing all the "old guys" before he was considered a genius.  They were crafty veterans, not worthless old guys.  Holland could be accused of going to that well too often and not realizing that it isn't as effective when those guys have to play more prominent roles instead of being depth guys.  But, trying to strike that balance and keep under the cap probably isn't as easy as it sounds. 

 

I do agree that the blind loyalty has to stop at some point.  I will go postal for sure if Cleary gets any kind of a contract to return as a player.  I got the Samuelsson signing at the time, in that he had experience on the point and was RH and he was somewhat serviceable in VAN and FLA, but the 2 years at 3 million+NTC was insanity. 

 

I realize a lot of the under 30 fans are totally spoiled rotten and don't remember a time when the Wings weren't good and that it's inconceivable that they aren't challenging for the Cup every year.  That Holland was able to keep this team competitive and  re-tool and get a Cup in 2008 is quite the accomplishment.  Teams like the Red Wings, the New England Patriots, the San Antonio Spurs, the St. Louis Cardinals, that are able to be competitive year after year for extended periods are the exception not the rule.  It's those teams that are able to find diamonds in the rough, the late round draft picks, the other teams rejects, etc.  The system is set up to discourage dynasties and encourage parity.



#83 DickieDunn

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Posted 29 June 2014 - 12:37 PM

Yeah, after Suter it was a bunch of second pairing guys that year, most of whom got upwards of $5 mil per.

 

As far as Cleary goes, as long as it's a 2-way deal and he spends 95% of the season in GR except for a call up for a few games, that's fine.  If they lose a kid on waivers because they want to keep Dand M-F-ing Cleary, I'm going to be pissed.


Oh this young man has had a very trying rookie season, with the litigation, the notoriety, his subsequent deportation to Canada and that country's refusal to accept him, well, I guess that's more than most 21-year-olds can handle... Ogie Ogilthorpe!


#84 wings4thecup06

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Posted 29 June 2014 - 01:41 PM

Yeah, after Suter it was a bunch of second pairing guys that year, most of whom got upwards of $5 mil per.

 

As far as Cleary goes, as long as it's a 2-way deal and he spends 95% of the season in GR except for a call up for a few games, that's fine.  If they lose a kid on waivers because they want to keep Dand M-F-ing Cleary, I'm going to be pissed.

 

Same. I won't go postal if Cleary's re-signed, as long as it's a two way deal.


temp 1

 


#85 DeGraa55

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Posted 29 June 2014 - 03:24 PM

Well I definitely don't want to make it seem like Holland can't, and hasn't, made mistakes.  We know he does.  Particularly when it comes to player acquisition post 2005 lockout. 
 
But I'd agree with Rick in saying that despite his shortcomings, the draft is one area in which Holland has almost universally excelled. 


I agree even when he still done boneheaded stuff in the draft it come from good things.

Example....getting an extra third last year(good move). Then follows up by a TERRIBLE move by drafting a guy we could've got in round 5 6 or 7 in bertuzzi.

But yes I agree the scouts AND holland and anyone else involved have done a great job of drafting players.

#86 DickieDunn

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Posted 29 June 2014 - 05:46 PM

I agree even when he still done boneheaded stuff in the draft it come from good things.

Example....getting an extra third last year(good move). Then follows up by a TERRIBLE move by drafting a guy we could've got in round 5 6 or 7 in bertuzzi.

But yes I agree the scouts AND holland and anyone else involved have done a great job of drafting players.

 

How do you know he wouldn't have been picked before then had they waited?  They obviously liked him and had him targeted, and he's shown enough this last year to make it a legit pick.  34 points in 29 games is a nice step up from the previous year.


Oh this young man has had a very trying rookie season, with the litigation, the notoriety, his subsequent deportation to Canada and that country's refusal to accept him, well, I guess that's more than most 21-year-olds can handle... Ogie Ogilthorpe!


#87 DeGraa55

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Posted 29 June 2014 - 06:23 PM

 
How do you know he wouldn't have been picked before then had they waited?  They obviously liked him and had him targeted, and he's shown enough this last year to make it a legit pick.  34 points in 29 games is a nice step up from the previous year.


You're right I just go by what the experts had him rated at. I don't remember exactly but I believe the highest I saw was like 260 or so. So ya....

#88 Playmaker

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Posted 29 June 2014 - 06:28 PM

Keeping Cleary around is like keeping your fat clothes after you lost weight.  You think you won't want them or need them, but they're there just in case.  Even though they are old totally worn out, you keep them thinking that one day you might need them and don't want to spend the money on something good and new.







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