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Hutts11

Myers close to become a wing?

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The problem is, Myers isn't necessarily a cornerstone d-man right now, he's just the best on a terrible team. He MIGHT be, or he might be a second pair D with a $5.5 mil cap hit until the end of the 18-19 season. Trading for him is a risk, and I don't think it's a good idea to trade a bunch for a risk when the Wings have so many good D prospects, and a top 4 that's pretty well set now. Further, unless Buffalo takes back Kindl, Quincey, or Ericsson, the trade wouldn't work cap wise.

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The problem is, Myers isn't necessarily a cornerstone d-man right now, he's just the best on a terrible team. He MIGHT be, or he might be a second pair D with a $5.5 mil cap hit until the end of the 18-19 season. Trading for him is a risk, and I don't think it's a good idea to trade a bunch for a risk when the Wings have so many good D prospects, and a top 4 that's pretty well set now. Further, unless Buffalo takes back Kindl, Quincey, or Ericsson, the trade wouldn't work cap wise.

When I say he's a cornerstone defenseman, I mean he's struck me as such when I've watched him play. He's not there yet, but that's because he's a 24-year-old defenseman who plays 24 minutes a night for the worst team ever. I believe, 100%, that he's got the goods to be a quality #1 or #2 on a playoff team. He just needs a better situation, and I believe the Wings would be a perfect fit in that regard. It would be risky, but, on the other hand, our top four leaves a whole lot to be desired and none of our prospects have proven anything at the NHL level yet (not that they've had the chance, but if we're talking about risk and uncertainty, Myers at least has a monster NHL season and a Calder Trophy and 24 minutes a night against the best of the best of the best on his resume. And a 6'8 frame and a RH shot. And undeniably great upside.) We've all been pining for That Defenseman. We've all been wondering if one of our D prospects can become a big-minute top-pairing defenseman. This is what we want. This is That Defenseman. This is that mythical unicorn, a young stud defenseman who shoots right and can be a legitimate #2 to Kronwall's #1 and wouldn't cost anywhere near "the farm." I love Tatar, but I believe that if we trade him and a 1st for Myers, we win that trade in the long run.

I'd meant to mention the cap concern in my previous post, but I guess I figured if we've been scouting him hard for quite some time now (and we have) then we'd be prepared to "find a way to make it work."

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I remember seeing or reading somewhere that the organization believes larkin and mantha is our future zetterburg and Datsyuk. Even going as far as mentioning that they will be looking for Larkin to eventually take the C. The kid oozes leadership. But it might have been McGuire that said it. So take it for what it's worth.

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Why not? Better than fools like Del Zotto or Green...

Give Buffalo what they want. They have no interest in Franzen or Weiss. Kenny can find other solutions for those two. Buffalo wants established Wingers with potential or high end offensive prospects. Myers is worth it. He can play a lot better than he actually is. Hard to develop for a young defenseman in this environment...

Detroit is no longer a top address for FA's and we're far away from being a contender. Time to react, even if we suck for one or two seasons. Pav and Z won't play forever...

- Trade Ericsson away...i have no idea what we'd get for him, but I don't think a 2nd Rounder is too much.

- Use the 2nd Rounder and add Tatar, Nyquist and Ferraro to get Myers

- As we now need Wingers, get Troy Brouwer and send Weiss back to Washington. Troy isn't the greatest fan of Coach Oates plus they have too many RW's and need Centers

- Add some more talent and bring in Evander Kane by flipping over Smith, Franzen, Andersson, McCollum and a future 2nd Rounder

- If Alfredsson returns - fine. Otherwise, sign Stempniak as a depth forward.

- Give our youth a chance. Even if we suck...as wrote before, I don't care. We need to do something...

FORWARDS

Tomas Jurco ($0.709m) / Pavel Datsyuk ($7.500m) / Troy Brouwer ($3.667m)

Evander Kane ($5.250m) / Henrik Zetterberg ($6.083m) / Anthony Mantha ($0.894m)

Teemu Pulkkinen ($0.698m) / Darren Helm ($2.125m) / Lee Stempniak ($2.500m)

Justin Abdelkader ($1.800m) / Riley Sheahan ($0.950m) / Danny Cleary ($1.500m)

Drew Miller ($1.350m) / Luke Glendening ($0.628m) /

DEFENSEMEN

Niklas Kronwall ($4.750m) / Tyler Myers ($5.500m)

Danny DeKeyser ($1.500m) / Brian Lashoff ($0.725m)

Jakub Kindl ($2.400m) / Alexei Marchenko ($0.667m)

Kyle Quincey ($4.250m) /

GOALTENDERS

Jimmy Howard ($5.292m)

Jonas Gustavsson ($1.850m)

BUYOUTS

Carlo Colaiacovo ($0.000m)

Jordin Tootoo ($0.000m)

BONUS OVERAGE

$3,017,500

------

CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)

(estimations for 2014-15)

SALARY CAP: $69,000,000; CAP PAYROLL: $65,605,833; BONUSES: $1,542,500

CAP SPACE (23-man roster): $3,394,167

Aww the NHL 15 video game trading system is here again....

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I wouldn’t give up any first round picks for Myers. Not this year’s, not next’s.

Mantha and Larkin are untouchable IMO. They were both first round picks.

Image if Holland had traded one of those picks for Bouwmeester in 13.That was the first round pick they used to draft Mantha.

Or how about trading last spring’s first, used to draft Larkin, for someone at the 14 deadline?

This is why I’m glad Holland is our GM. He’s hanging on to these picks and using them to draft great prospects.

Sometimes I think if LGWs had their way, we’d have Tomas Vanek and empty cupboards.

So,, no to Myers unless Holland can grab him for cheap.

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- Use the 2nd Rounder and add Tatar, Nyquist and Ferraro to get Myers ...

tatar and nyquist for myers are you mad?

and ericcsson... our only defender capable of consistently staying at home and not pinching every shift....or shooting the puck the second he gets it

tatar and nyquist are the future. Maybe not tats as much as gus.... but nyquist is our next big player. Giving him up in a package no less for Myers would have me furious for the next 10 years.

Also, trading smith for evander kane who puts up tatar numbers (other then 30 goals, once) is also absurd. Or is that because he hits people?

Smith has all the tools to be our best defenseman when kronwall is gone....he looks like duncan keith some nights with his skating and passing; we just need to hope his hockey IQ increases

Edited by WingsallTheway

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I couldn't agree more zombo. Fans of all teams tend to be way too impatient with their prospects, but I hear it most on here, probably because people are getting fed up with our extremely patient general manager. Sure, Holland has made some questionable decisions over the years, but there is not a single GM in the league (past or present) that hasn't. The thing is, he makes a lot more great decisions than he does bad, and most of his great decisions are the trades and signings that he stays away from. We have one of the top prospect pools in the entire league, despite never picking in the top half of the draft for over two decades, thanks to our methodical GM. The team has a plan and direction and they don't stray from that. That plan is to continue to make the playoffs while at the same time build a contender. I am very confident that the plan is working perfectly and we will be a Cup contender once again, in 2 to 3 years. Achieving that without ever missing the playoffs and never being in position at the draft table to pick these "elite" players is damn impressive.

Thanks Kenneth Mark Holland! You truly will go down as one of the all time greats, and maybe then you will get the recognition you deserve...

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I couldn't agree more zombo. Fans of all teams tend to be way too impatient with their prospects, but I hear it most on here, probably because people are getting fed up with our extremely patient general manager. Sure, Holland has made some questionable decisions over the years, but there is not a single GM in the league (past or present) that hasn't. The thing is, he makes a lot more great decisions than he does bad, and most of his great decisions are the trades and signings that he stays away from. We have one of the top prospect pools in the entire league, despite never picking in the top half of the draft for over two decades, thanks to our methodical GM. The team has a plan and direction and they don't stray from that. That plan is to continue to make the playoffs while at the same time build a contender. I am very confident that the plan is working perfectly and we will be a Cup contender once again, in 2 to 3 years. Achieving that without ever missing the playoffs and never being in position at the draft table to pick these "elite" players is damn impressive.

Thanks Kenneth Mark Holland! You truly will go down as one of the all time greats, and maybe then you will get the recognition you deserve...

The thing is he doesn't stay away from them. The free agents go elsewhere.

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That's been repeated over and over again on here and I don't entirely believe in it. Sure, he tried to sign a few big name free agents last off season, but when the prices got to high, he got out, and rightfully so. A lot of these guys got massively overpaid and that's something this organization refuses to do, and I for one am quite okay with that. Holland doesn't want to get into a bidding war over a player with several other teams, only to handcuff the organization financially for years to come. He knows that there are a ton of guys within the organization that need to be resigned over the next couple seasons, some of which will be due for significant raises. Next year we have Nyquist and Smith who will be due for pretty decent raises, as well as Jurco who will be due for a moderate raise, and Andersson and Nestrasil too if they decide to stick with them. Then the following season we have Helm, Abdelkader, Sheahan and DeKeyser who will all get decent raises as well and Miller and Lashoff if they decide to keep them with the team going forward. All this, not even mentioning the ton of minor leaguers that will be due for raises.

There is this huge misconception that none of these players want to play here, but that isn't true either. There are 29 other teams in the league and we're not always going to hit a home run in free agency. Players that choose to go elsewhere, most are doing so for personal reasons, the same personal reasons that landed us the highly coveted DeKeyser. But Holland doesn't get credit for that one because he's a hometown boy... ridiculous. Also, just one short season ago, we landed the two top UFA's, but that is forgotten because one was old and the other hasn't panned out yet. Despite his age, Alfredsson was one of the top free agent signings last year and he put up solid numbers, and helped the team make a 23rd straight playoff appearance. Weiss hasn't done anything yet, but there is still a lot of time for him to turn that around, and I truly believe he will. So no, the free agents don`t always go elsewhere...

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That's been repeated over and over again on here and I don't entirely believe in it. Sure, he tried to sign a few big name free agents last off season, but when the prices got to high, he got out, and rightfully so. A lot of these guys got massively overpaid and that's something this organization refuses to do, and I for one am quite okay with that. Holland doesn't want to get into a bidding war over a player with several other teams, only to handcuff the organization financially for years to come. He knows that there are a ton of guys within the organization that need to be resigned over the next couple seasons, some of which will be due for significant raises. Next year we have Nyquist and Smith who will be due for pretty decent raises, as well as Jurco who will be due for a moderate raise, and Andersson and Nestrasil too if they decide to stick with them. Then the following season we have Helm, Abdelkader, Sheahan and DeKeyser who will all get decent raises as well and Miller and Lashoff if they decide to keep them with the team going forward. All this, not even mentioning the ton of minor leaguers that will be due for raises.

There is this huge misconception that none of these players want to play here, but that isn't true either. There are 29 other teams in the league and we're not always going to hit a home run in free agency. Players that choose to go elsewhere, most are doing so for personal reasons, the same personal reasons that landed us the highly coveted DeKeyser. But Holland doesn't get credit for that one because he's a hometown boy... ridiculous. Also, just one short season ago, we landed the two top UFA's, but that is forgotten because one was old and the other hasn't panned out yet. Despite his age, Alfredsson was one of the top free agent signings last year and he put up solid numbers, and helped the team make a 23rd straight playoff appearance. Weiss hasn't done anything yet, but there is still a lot of time for him to turn that around, and I truly believe he will. So no, the free agents don`t always go elsewhere...

His offers were pretty on par with what was taken by those players. It's not like they weren't in the same ball park. He struck out, but after he said he wouldn't try to sign all these big name guys he did exactly that. He lied, he said one thing, then did another. If he wouldn't have tried I would be more inclined to accept the trying to improve with youth argument. The team is injected with youth for the sole reason that no fa's wanted to come here and they had no choice.

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His offers were pretty on par with what was taken by those players. It's not like they weren't in the same ball park. He struck out, but after he said he wouldn't try to sign all these big name guys he did exactly that. He lied, he said one thing, then did another. If he wouldn't have tried I would be more inclined to accept the trying to improve with youth argument. The team is injected with youth for the sole reason that no fa's wanted to come here and they had no choice.

So you're criticizing him for not being able to get players here, yet upset because he tried without showing his hand? You're not going to publicly state, "I want Dan Boyle to sign here, we think he's going to improve our powerplay." What negotiating leverage would that give the team? Teams know Detroit is desperate for a RH defender, and they're asking for an arm and a leg in trade discussions. Kenny's not exactly playing from a position of strength.

Kenny did strike out, and that's why the youth movement is here... but what have those other FA's done? Stralman's played well, but you can argue that part of his success is in due part to Tampa's system. I'm kind of glad he struck out this off-season, to be honest. The previous one, we landed Alfie and Weiss (who's showing, for right now anyway, that signing FA's long term can be risky) who were two of the "bigger fish". Can't win every off season.

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His offers may have been "pretty on par" but there was something that didn't work whether it was money or term. And like I said, I'm quite happy we didn't land most of those that signed the huge contracts this past offseason. Most all of the players that would have helped us were massively overpaid, and even the one's that are working out for their new teams, doesn't necessarily mean they would have worked out here. Our biggest need in the offseason was on the back end and you can easily argue that has been our strong point so far this season, and it's only going to get better from here. Once the young guys get more time under their belt and we inject another one or two of our top prospects over the next year or two, we will be very strong on the back end.

I'd much rather the wait and see approach by Holland rather than the immediate gratification that most fans yearn for. That way is going to get you in a lot more trouble than the proven success of Holland and co. (see Paul Holmgren)

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I want one more Cup with Datsyuk. Larkin may or may not become a franchise player. Odds are, he won't - and even if he does, that's years and years down the road. He's two or three years away from going pro, and then he has to spend at least one season on the farm, and then maybe he gets a shot with the big club, and then maybe a couple years later we can say this kid is looking like a key part of the team (at which point Myers might very well be our #1 defenseman). As for next year's first - again, what are we hoping for? "We need to think of our future. We might have the chance to pick a very special player who could help us for the next 10+ years." Well, Myers fits that bill, and he has a track record at the NHL level. And it's not like Mantha's going anywhere.

Granted, our pipeline is definitely lacking in top-end centermen. And I know that Holland has to keep one eye on the distant future at all times. (I understand the long game. I know this season isn't really about winning the Cup.) But if we're not even going to consider moving Larkin (or Jurco or Sproul or, basically, anyone with good upside) for anyone, not even a stud defenseman with all the attributes we've been looking for...I don't understand that. If we had Myers and we were talking about maybe trading him to Buffalo for Dylan Larkin, I guarantee you none of us would be remotely on board with that.

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Teams know Detroit is desperate for a RH defender, and they're asking for an arm and a leg in trade discussions. Kenny's not exactly playing from a position of strength.

Everyone knew Garth Snow needed at least one top-four defenseman.

Just saying.

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Everyone knew Garth Snow needed at least one top-four defenseman.

Just saying.

I'd be more willing to trade a player with one year left on their contract to the islanders as opposed to a pittsburgh or detroit as theres more a chance that they would be willing to come back as a free agent.

Edited by WingsallTheway

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His offers may have been "pretty on par" but there was something that didn't work whether it was money or term. And like I said, I'm quite happy we didn't land most of those that signed the huge contracts this past offseason. Most all of the players that would have helped us were massively overpaid, and even the one's that are working out for their new teams, doesn't necessarily mean they would have worked out here. Our biggest need in the offseason was on the back end and you can easily argue that has been our strong point so far this season, and it's only going to get better from here. Once the young guys get more time under their belt and we inject another one or two of our top prospects over the next year or two, we will be very strong on the back end.

I'd much rather the wait and see approach by Holland rather than the immediate gratification that most fans yearn for. That way is going to get you in a lot more trouble than the proven success of Holland and co. (see Paul Holmgren)

I'm not arguing with what your opinion on what we need is, but on the argument that kenny wouldn't overpay and that is why no one was signed.

We overpayed for Quincey, and we offered a giant contract to niskanen as well as every other somewhat decent dman. they didn't want to come here, we didn't sign anyone but it's not like that was kenny's intent

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I want one more Cup with Datsyuk. Larkin may or may not become a franchise player. Odds are, he won't - and even if he does, that's years and years down the road. He's two or three years away from going pro, and then he has to spend at least one season on the farm, and then maybe he gets a shot with the big club, and then maybe a couple years later we can say this kid is looking like a key part of the team (at which point Myers might very well be our #1 defenseman). As for next year's first - again, what are we hoping for? "We need to think of our future. We might have the chance to pick a very special player who could help us for the next 10+ years." Well, Myers fits that bill, and he has a track record at the NHL level. And it's not like Mantha's going anywhere.

Granted, our pipeline is definitely lacking in top-end centermen. And I know that Holland has to keep one eye on the distant future at all times. (I understand the long game. I know this season isn't really about winning the Cup.) But if we're not even going to consider moving Larkin (or Jurco or Sproul or, basically, anyone with good upside) for anyone, not even a stud defenseman with all the attributes we've been looking for...I don't understand that. If we had Myers and we were talking about maybe trading him to Buffalo for Dylan Larkin, I guarantee you none of us would be remotely on board with that.

So hoping that Larkin is going to be a legitimate top six center is frivolous, but hoping Myers can turn it around isn't? Myers might very well be our #1 defender, but Larkin may very well become a #1 center. What's the difference? Time? Myers does have a proven track record at the NHL level - one of regression after his first two years.

This team is most definitely lacking top-end centermen, and our current ones are long in the tooth. I'm all for beefing up the blueline, but not at the expense of moving a player from a position of weakness. I don't think Larkin is the next coming, but I do think that this team is going to need a center at that point much more than a defender. The great thing about having 4-5 potential NHL defenders is that we're going to get to see which ones stick, and which don't. This team doesn't have that luxury up front, and needs to keep the talent they have there.

I'm not anti-Myers at all - I think he's a solid defender, and he could turn things around... but that's just not worth the gamble of moving this team's best center prospect. If this team had some younger guys up the middle, or if Nyquist could convert to center, perhaps. Not right now, though.

Everyone knew Garth Snow needed at least one top-four defenseman.

Just saying.

Sure, and both guys were coming from teams in desperate need of cap space. Boston, in particular, dreaded moving Boychuk. Chicago and Boston moved two players out of necessity, to a team they don't believe to be a legitimate contender. Boston got two 2nd round picks from the Isles - I doubt two 2nd rounders from Detroit would fetch the same kind of player, but who knows. What I do know is that someone like Buffalo, a team in the same conference, isn't going to be doing Detroit any favors - they don't need to move Myers.

Edited by Jesusberg

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Euro_Twins, Holland absolutely did want to sign some of those top end free agents this past summer, but the price for Holland was too high on a few of them. You can't argue that. You don't actually believe that all of those players were so dead set against signing with the Wings, that no matter how much money and term Holland threw at them, they just would not sign. He could have thrown more money and term their way and some of them would have signed here but that just isn't Kenny's style. He's a very cautious GM and that's one of the reasons he is the best in the business. Do you honestly think we over paid for Quincey? I said from the beginning, that I thought it was a pretty fair contract, maybe slight over payment but I think he is earning every dollar so far this season. There are not many defensemen around the league that are as dependable, durable, and just all around solid for the price of Quincey. People can hate on them all they want, but he has played great.

Edited by krsmith17

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So hoping that Larkin is going to be a legitimate top six center is frivolous, but hoping Myers can turn it around isn't? Myers might very well be our #1 defender, but Larkin may very well become a #1 center. What's the difference? Time? Myers does have a proven track record at the NHL level - one of regression after his first two years.

This team is most definitely lacking top-end centermen, and our current ones are long in the tooth. I'm all for beefing up the blueline, but not at the expense of moving a player from a position of weakness. I don't think Larkin is the next coming, but I do think that this team is going to need a center at that point much more than a defender. The great thing about having 4-5 potential NHL defenders is that we're going to get to see which ones stick, and which don't. This team doesn't have that luxury up front, and needs to keep the talent they have there.

I'm not anti-Myers at all - I think he's a solid defender, and he could turn things around... but that's just not worth the gamble of moving this team's best center prospect. If this team had some younger guys up the middle, or if Nyquist could convert to center, perhaps. Not right now, though.

Sure, and both guys were coming from teams in desperate need of cap space. Boston, in particular, dreaded moving Boychuk. Chicago and Boston moved two players out of necessity, to a team they don't believe to be a legitimate contender. Boston got two 2nd round picks from the Isles - I doubt two 2nd rounders from Detroit would fetch the same kind of player, but who knows. What I do know is that someone like Buffalo, a team in the same conference, isn't going to be doing Detroit any favors - they don't need to move Myers.

I think both Larkin and Myers are overrated. I wouldn't lose my mind over a trade involving Larkin, but also wouldn't want it to be for Myers either. Can't understand why people like Myers so much. He's light years behind Weber, Chara, and every D-man his size. Quite honestly he'd be a whipping boy here with the game he brings coupled with his price tag and size.

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I usually agree with you number9, but explain how you see Larkin, an 18 year old, first round pick from just a few months ago, as being overrated... I'll admit, he is one of the few Wings prospects that I know very little about, I've never seen him play, but everything I've heard and read about the kid points to him being a damn good player. He should be one of a handful of prospects the Wings have in the system right now that is as close to untouchable as they come, especially playing a position the Wings are really lacking depth for the future. A few things I've read about the kid... "elite-level power forward", "high level of offensive ability", "speed and skill", "incredible skating", "great on-ice vision", "works hard", "responsible two-way game"... A few thing I've heard about the kid... "strong two-way center", "good shut-down center", "Helm-like speed with better scoring ability", "great hands", "guts, lots of skill, lots of speed", "great leadership ability". I'm also pretty sure the Wings brass see Larkin and Mantha pairing up as a top line duo in the future. He's putting up solid numbers with University of Michigan, 8 points (2 goals, 6 assists) in 9 games so far this season. I don't think he is or should be going anywhere.

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I usually agree with you number9, but explain how you see Larkin, an 18 year old, first round pick from just a few months ago, as being overrated... I'll admit, he is one of the few Wings prospects that I know very little about, I've never seen him play, but everything I've heard and read about the kid points to him being a damn good player. He should be one of a handful of prospects the Wings have in the system right now that is as close to untouchable as they come, especially playing a position the Wings are really lacking depth for the future. A few things I've read about the kid... "elite-level power forward", "high level of offensive ability", "speed and skill", "incredible skating", "great on-ice vision", "works hard", "responsible two-way game"... A few thing I've heard about the kid... "strong two-way center", "good shut-down center", "Helm-like speed with better scoring ability", "great hands", "guts, lots of skill, lots of speed", "great leadership ability". I'm also pretty sure the Wings brass see Larkin and Mantha pairing up as a top line duo in the future. He's putting up solid numbers with University of Michigan, 8 points (2 goals, 6 assists) in 9 games so far this season. I don't think he is or should be going anywhere.

He's not anything close to Mantha (yet). Grouping those two together is overrating Larkin. Mantha is the only true untouchable prospect in our system.

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He's not anything close to Mantha (yet). Grouping those two together is overrating Larkin. Mantha is the only true untouchable prospect in our system.

Grouping them together has more to do with Detroit's need for depth at C than anything - Mantha is clearly the superior player. I'd say it's more like mentioning the two players as being off limits for trades, not necessarily for the same reasons. I'm just talking about not giving up a player based on his relative value to this team. Outside of Larkin, the team has Janmark and Athanasiou if he winds up playing C.

Edited by Jesusberg

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How about waiting till Larkin makes it to the Grand Rapids and then compare him? So far he is nothing more than a highly touted prospect - the best pick # we've had since almost a decade - Mantha on the other side could be the soon answer to the Wings size, grit and scoring problems. Would love seeing him training with McKee

Edited by frankgrimes

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How about waiting till Larkin makes it to the Grand Rapids and then compare him? So far he is nothing more than a highly touted prospect - the best pick # we've had since almost a decade - Mantha on the other side could be the soon answer to the Wings size, grit and scoring problems. Would love seeing him training with McKee

Yeah. Teach him how to fight so he can smash those potential 30 goal hands off of some goon's forehead. Good plan.

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