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#21 wings4thecup06

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Posted 30 June 2014 - 04:55 PM

BUFFALO NEWS:  John Vogl reports Sabres GM Tim Murray isn’t concerned about spending to reach the cap floor. Murray also decided not to qualify the rights of RFA defenseman Jamie McBain, making him eligible for UFA status on July 1.


what time does it start on tuesday guys? Im 4-5 hrs in front of yous over here

 

5pm for us, just in time for the end of work, and then spending the entire evening watching and waiting! 


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#22 Andy Pred 48

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Posted 30 June 2014 - 04:55 PM

i still have a feeling that Kenny has a trade up his sleeve  :withstupid:


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#23 kipwinger

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Posted 30 June 2014 - 04:58 PM

 

Depends on your viewpoint on the whole thing.  I can see where getting a right handed, proven veteran for 2 years as a stop gap to the kids coming in is a smart move.  You don't tie up cap long-term and you give yourself flexibility for the next 2-3 UFA periods (what D may come available in the coming off-seasons?).  Also Boyle would do wonders as a mentor to Smith, etc.  I'm not saying this is my preference, but I can see the value in adding Boyle first and then going after a second d-man.  I would be happy if they got Boyle and Gilbert and add 2 right handed shots without breaking the bank.  Then they have money to add Iginla possibly (assuming the move out Kindl).


McBain could be a decent backup plan... I'm not too familiar with his style of play though.  Had a couple decent seasons with Carolina. (30 and 27 pts).

 

What could Boyle teach Smith that Kronwall can't?  Kronwall is the better player.  He's had more success.  Plays a gritty/offensive game (the way we'd like Smith to play).  And he's a lefty, like Smith.  Boyle and Smith have very little in common aside from the fact that neither are likely to score 20 pts. for the Red Wings next year (sorry, I had to).   

 

Like I've said before, you can justify it however you like, but adding mediocre players to a mediocre team just leaves you mediocre. 


GMRwings:  "Well, in other civilized countries, 16 years old isn't considered underage.  For instance, I believe the age of consent is 16 in Canada.  There's some US states where it's 16 as well.  

 

Get off the high horse.  Not like she was 10."

 

"Some girls are 17 even though they look 25."

 

 


#24 SwedeLundin77

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Posted 30 June 2014 - 04:58 PM

i still have a feeling that Kenny has a trade up his sleeve  :withstupid:

 

Honestly, the TSN guys are saying that Holland has had serious discussions with Buffalo re Tyler Myers.  24 years old, right handed shot, 6'8".  I think he'd fit in well here.



#25 ben_usmc

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Posted 30 June 2014 - 05:00 PM

i still have a feeling that Kenny has a trade up his sleeve  :withstupid:

Philly is going to sign Cleary this time, then KH will trade our 1st for Dan Cleary


 

Honestly, the TSN guys are saying that Holland has had serious discussions with Buffalo re Tyler Myers.  24 years old, right handed shot, 6'8".  I think he'd fit in well here.

Wasn't there talk of him coming during the trade deadline? I'd like to have Myers for sure. 


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#26 rick zombo

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Posted 30 June 2014 - 05:01 PM

 

What could Boyle teach Smith that Kronwall can't?  Kronwall is the better player.  He's had more success.  Plays a gritty/offensive game (the way we'd like Smith to play).  And he's a lefty, like Smith.  Boyle and Smith have very little in common aside from the fact that neither are likely to score 20 pts. for the Red Wings next year (sorry, I had to).   

 

Like I've said before, you can justify it however you like, but adding mediocre players to a mediocre team just leaves you mediocre. 

 

But a better mediocre team than last year’s with one of Boyle, Erhoff, Niskanen, or Gilbert IMO. 

 

Add in a pinch of not-freakishly-bad health, and this team could surprise. Maybe. 


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#27 Euro_Twins

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Posted 30 June 2014 - 05:01 PM

 
What could Boyle teach Smith that Kronwall can't?  Kronwall is the better player.  He's had more success.  Plays a gritty/offensive game (the way we'd like Smith to play).  And he's a lefty, like Smith.  Boyle and Smith have very little in common aside from the fact that neither are likely to score 20 pts. for the Red Wings next year (sorry, I had to).   
 
Like I've said before, you can justify it however you like, but adding mediocre players to a mediocre team just leaves you mediocre. 


Just because you want to be negative doesn't negate facts. Boyle has never ever gotten less than 20 points. Even in the lockout season. Might as well say Datsyuk will get less than 40

#28 Andy Pred 48

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Posted 30 June 2014 - 05:03 PM

if Kenny doesn't pick up a fwd then i think we can pencil in Mantha and id love to see the kid get a fair crack at it.


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#29 kipwinger

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Posted 30 June 2014 - 05:08 PM

George Malik @georgemalik 21m

.@Mjurgh I call July 1st the "great disappointment" because even if KH signed everybody, Wings fans would still be upset.

 

Of course I'm disappointed when the Wings don't get the exact players I want.  I'm convinced of my own good judgement in these matters lol.  But I'm fully capable of settling for others, provided they're not 92 years old and clearly declining. 

 

As for Malik...I loathe the guy.  He's the absolute definition of a company man.  I might put more stock in what he had to say if I hadn't spent the last 5 years reading him agree with every misstep Holland made, and then make excuses afterward as if Holland were a victim of fate and not a man who is clearly petrified by uncertainty.


GMRwings:  "Well, in other civilized countries, 16 years old isn't considered underage.  For instance, I believe the age of consent is 16 in Canada.  There's some US states where it's 16 as well.  

 

Get off the high horse.  Not like she was 10."

 

"Some girls are 17 even though they look 25."

 

 


#30 SwedeLundin77

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Posted 30 June 2014 - 05:08 PM

 

What could Boyle teach Smith that Kronwall can't?  Kronwall is the better player.  He's had more success.  Plays a gritty/offensive game (the way we'd like Smith to play).  And he's a lefty, like Smith.  Boyle and Smith have very little in common aside from the fact that neither are likely to score 20 pts. for the Red Wings next year (sorry, I had to).   

 

Like I've said before, you can justify it however you like, but adding mediocre players to a mediocre team just leaves you mediocre. 

 

Okay instead of just being negative in response, why not offer up what you think they should do?  

 

Boyle isn't mediocre, even at 38.  He had an off-year last year and still posted 36 points.  He is a known commodity.  Niskanen is not (not saying I wouldn't like Niskanen), but I can see the inherent risk in bringing him in for 7 years at 6 per.  Whereas bringing in Boyle for 2 around 5 million is much less of a risk.   Ehroff is another strong candidate but who knows what he'll ask for and what kind of term he'll want.  They are also gunning for a righty, so that makes things a little tougher to sort out.  Basically gives you Niskanen, Boyle, and Gilbert as the top right handed candidates.  I'm not so sure that Gilbert fits the top 4 d-man mold, but I could be wrong, I'm not super familiar with his style of play.  In the end, your assessment of Boyle is far off base, and like any veteran, he can teach the younger guys (like ANY veteran can) if they feel so inclined.  It's not a discredit to Kronwall, just an additional guy to play off of and get experience from.  You're entitled to your opinion, but when the facts say otherwise, it's hard to see things the same way.  We'll see.



#31 kipwinger

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Posted 30 June 2014 - 05:10 PM

 

But a better mediocre team than last year’s with one of Boyle, Erhoff, Niskanen, or Gilbert IMO. 

 

Add in a pinch of not-freakishly-bad health, and this team could surprise. Maybe. 

 

Loading your team up with aging vets, and playing them a ton of minutes, INCREASES the likelihood of injury.  It doesn't decrease it. 

 

I think Ken Holland is the only person on earth who thinks that injuries are the product of magic and not wear and tear. 


GMRwings:  "Well, in other civilized countries, 16 years old isn't considered underage.  For instance, I believe the age of consent is 16 in Canada.  There's some US states where it's 16 as well.  

 

Get off the high horse.  Not like she was 10."

 

"Some girls are 17 even though they look 25."

 

 


#32 PavelValerievichDatsyuk

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Posted 30 June 2014 - 05:13 PM

if Kenny doesn't pick up a fwd then i think we can pencil in Mantha and id love to see the kid get a fair crack at it.

Without signing anyone he'd have to beat out Jurco. Also, Alfie will probably sign and we'll have this. I think it's pretty certain Mantha will start in GR.

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#33 SwedeLundin77

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Posted 30 June 2014 - 05:15 PM

 

Loading your team up with aging vets, and playing them a ton of minutes, INCREASES the likelihood of injury.  It doesn't decrease it. 

 

I think Ken Holland is the only person on earth who thinks that injuries are the product of magic and not wear and tear. 

 

The only aging vet on that list is Boyle, and he's been surprisingly resilient (hasn't played less than 75 games since before the 08/09 season.  They have kids that are ready for spot duty here and there, so they could supplement toward the end of the season to give the vets a break (in this scenario - Boyle).  


Without signing anyone he'd have to beat out Jurco. Also, Alfie will probably sign and we'll have this. I think it's pretty certain Mantha will start in GR.

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I wouldn't say it's a certainty, he has a good chance to beat out someone, especially with how good he is.  I'm happy with Jurco, but he needs to get the minutes necessary and he is the last one in that lineup that can be sent down.



#34 kipwinger

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Posted 30 June 2014 - 05:18 PM

 

Okay instead of just being negative in response, why not offer up what you think they should do?  

 

Boyle isn't mediocre, even at 38.  He had an off-year last year and still posted 36 points.  He is a known commodity.  Niskanen is not (not saying I wouldn't like Niskanen), but I can see the inherent risk in bringing him in for 7 years at 6 per.  Whereas bringing in Boyle for 2 around 5 million is much less of a risk.   Ehroff is another strong candidate but who knows what he'll ask for and what kind of term he'll want.  They are also gunning for a righty, so that makes things a little tougher to sort out.  Basically gives you Niskanen, Boyle, and Gilbert as the top right handed candidates.  I'm not so sure that Gilbert fits the top 4 d-man mold, but I could be wrong, I'm not super familiar with his style of play.  In the end, your assessment of Boyle is far off base, and like any veteran, he can teach the younger guys (like ANY veteran can) if they feel so inclined.  It's not a discredit to Kronwall, just an additional guy to play off of and get experience from.  You're entitled to your opinion, but when the facts say otherwise, it's hard to see things the same way.  We'll see.

 

I've already offered my alternative a thousand times.  If you can't get Niskanen (and now Ehrhoff) then let the kids play.  I'd rather miss the playoffs with Sproul than get murdered in the first round with Boyle.  At least one of those things helps us in the long term (the kid getting experience).  The other only gives a bunch of self congratulatory dummies another year to talk about "the streak" as if it's relevant. 

 

Also, Boyle didn't have an "off" year.  He's numbers are declining because he's old and losing his effectiveness.  If anything, they're probably artificially high considering his team is WAY better offensively than ours is.  If you think he's going to have some kind of a bounce back year on a team who didn't have a single 50 pt. player last year, I don't know what to tell you.  Joe Pavelski had almost as many goals as our points leader had points.  That's why Boyle's numbers were decent there, and that's why they'll suck here.


GMRwings:  "Well, in other civilized countries, 16 years old isn't considered underage.  For instance, I believe the age of consent is 16 in Canada.  There's some US states where it's 16 as well.  

 

Get off the high horse.  Not like she was 10."

 

"Some girls are 17 even though they look 25."

 

 


#35 LeftWinger

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Posted 30 June 2014 - 05:18 PM

I'd like Meyers as well....but it is gonna cost us Smith+....our 1st rounder is no longer in play, except next years (which hopefully stops being "The highest since 1991.")

 

Niskanen would be wonderful....but If we ended up trading for Myers and signing Boyle or Gilbert or  even Erhoff, I think that D would be tremendously better than last years... Even if he couldn't get any help up front via UFA ( I would love to see "Chicago to buy out Hossa.") I think Mantha should get a hue looksee and I mean, stay up for every single Pre-season game and show them he is ready to net 50 goals in a Wings sweater...


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#36 nawein

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Posted 30 June 2014 - 06:00 PM

 
What could Boyle teach Smith that Kronwall can't?  Kronwall is the better player.  He's had more success.  Plays a gritty/offensive game (the way we'd like Smith to play).  And he's a lefty, like Smith.  Boyle and Smith have very little in common aside from the fact that neither are likely to score 20 pts. for the Red Wings next year (sorry, I had to).   
 
Like I've said before, you can justify it however you like, but adding mediocre players to a mediocre team just leaves you mediocre. 


How and when to rush the puck, freewheel and create in the offensive zone. Surely you don't think Kronwall is better than Boyle at that.

#37 VM1138

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Posted 30 June 2014 - 06:19 PM

 

Also, Boyle didn't have an "off" year.  He's numbers are declining because he's old and losing his effectiveness.  If anything, they're probably artificially high considering his team is WAY better offensively than ours is.  If you think he's going to have some kind of a bounce back year on a team who didn't have a single 50 pt. player last year, I don't know what to tell you.  Joe Pavelski had almost as many goals as our points leader had points.  That's why Boyle's numbers were decent there, and that's why they'll suck here.

 

To be fair, none of our scorers played enough games to get over 50.  If you look on their pace, Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Alfredsson, Franzen, etc. all would have cleared 50 easy.


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#38 DeGraa55

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Posted 30 June 2014 - 06:22 PM

 
To be fair, none of our scorers played enough games to get over 50.  If you look on their pace, Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Alfredsson, Franzen, etc. all would have cleared 50 easy.


And they'll get healthier with age?

#39 Euro_Twins

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Posted 30 June 2014 - 06:22 PM

How and when to rush the puck, freewheel and create in the offensive zone. Surely you don't think Kronwall is better than Boyle at that.

 

he claimed kronwall could teach smith anything boyle could, and that smith and kronwall are very similar players. he then said smith and boyle were opposites (which contradicts the kronwall can teach smith anything boyle can argument) and followed up with a bold statement that boyle would get less than 20 points... it's like we've never had offensive dmen. Kronwall can put up 50 points on our "terrible" offensive team, but boyle can't put up 20 points. This is clearly a hate towards any potential moves Holland could make befoe we even see what happens and how it works out.



#40 kipwinger

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Posted 30 June 2014 - 06:22 PM

 

To be fair, none of our scorers played enough games to get over 50.  If you look on their pace, Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Alfredsson, Franzen, etc. all would have cleared 50 easy.

 

Better get used to it.  Those guys aren't going to get any healthier as their careers go on. 


GMRwings:  "Well, in other civilized countries, 16 years old isn't considered underage.  For instance, I believe the age of consent is 16 in Canada.  There's some US states where it's 16 as well.  

 

Get off the high horse.  Not like she was 10."

 

"Some girls are 17 even though they look 25."

 

 






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