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#21 toby91_ca

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Posted 03 July 2014 - 10:55 AM

I'm a bit more concerned about Z than D, even though he is a couple years younger.  I'm not overly confident of him being an effective player to the age of 40.  It's very rare that you have a player play until he is 40 anyway, but Z has struggled with back issues and it's gotten worse as he's aged over the past couple years.  We'll see how he recovers from his recent surgery though.



#22 RusDRW

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Posted 03 July 2014 - 11:02 AM

 

Niskanen is worth every penny of 5.75 million.  Even if he never improves his point production (and he probably will), you're still getting a 27 year old defenseman who can give you 40 pts., run a powerplay, log big minutes, AND is actually good at playing defense for under six million.  

 

Niskaanen got his 46 point playing top PP minutes with Malkin and Crosby in his contract year. The last time he scored similar point was his another contract year (36pts). They are going to pay him 6M. Career wise Quincey production is close to Niskanen's except for the last season. A lot of things depends on the team and how coach uses his players.


Sweet. This dude was brought here for one reason, to punch people in the head - every other thing that he can do, other Wings can do better. I like that we have a head-puncher. The league has other, better head-punchers, but this one is ours. Better than nothing. Good work, Kenny!

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#23 WingedWheel91

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Posted 03 July 2014 - 12:45 PM

I started the topic because I was annoyed of hearing about how bad we were when we didn't sign Boyle or Niskanen, or that no-one wants to play in Detroit anymore. To me, this represents an approach we as fans believe in that is simply unrealistic, because in the (hard) salary cap era - no team can/will compete for the Stanley Cup on a yearly basis. Not only does the hard cap hinder the money we can spend on free agents every summer, but the 7 year contract also limits free agency availability and allows the best players every year (who aren't ever elite) to receive inflated contracts because of the demand for them.

 

To be honest, I would rather have Quincey for 2 years at 4.25 Million than Niskanen for 7 years at 5.75 Million. Yes, Niskanen is a better Defenseman - but his contract is a representation of 1 decent year he had while playing the majority of his minutes with the top scorer in the NHL. When you consider he was on the 1st PP unit and took the place of Letang for most of the season, 46 points on a top 5 scoring team isn't really that fantastic.

 

Last year at this time (after losing in the 2nd round to the eventual Champs) we were ecstatic about the season we had and the kids who were coming up (we followed it up by adding 2 of the top 3 available free agents on July 1st) - this year injuries completely derail our season... yet we still make the playoffs... have even more kids develop in between... lose in the 1st round the best team in our conference... and the world is ending? What if we had gone for (arguments sake) 8-6 in the shootout instead of 5-9, we would have had the 5th most points in the conference and played a much easier first round opponent... What if we had won that series and then gotten back Ericsson, and a fully recovered Z? The outlook would be much different I'm sure...

 

For future reference - this is our lineup without Franzen, Weiss, Kindl and Quincey.

 

ZETTERBERG - DATSYUK - MANTHA

NYQUIST         - HELM        - JURCO

TATAR             - SHEAHAN - PULKKINEN

ABBY               - GLENNY    - MILLER

 

KRONWALL - SMITH

DEKEYSER - MARCHENKO

ERICSSON  - SPROUL

 

Please explain to me how we have nothing to be excited about?



#24 DeGraa55

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Posted 03 July 2014 - 11:17 PM

I started the topic because I was annoyed of hearing about how bad we were when we didn't sign Boyle or Niskanen, or that no-one wants to play in Detroit anymore. To me, this represents an approach we as fans believe in that is simply unrealistic, because in the (hard) salary cap era - no team can/will compete for the Stanley Cup on a yearly basis. Not only does the hard cap hinder the money we can spend on free agents every summer, but the 7 year contract also limits free agency availability and allows the best players every year (who aren't ever elite) to receive inflated contracts because of the demand for them.
 
To be honest, I would rather have Quincey for 2 years at 4.25 Million than Niskanen for 7 years at 5.75 Million. Yes, Niskanen is a better Defenseman - but his contract is a representation of 1 decent year he had while playing the majority of his minutes with the top scorer in the NHL. When you consider he was on the 1st PP unit and took the place of Letang for most of the season, 46 points on a top 5 scoring team isn't really that fantastic.
 
Last year at this time (after losing in the 2nd round to the eventual Champs) we were ecstatic about the season we had and the kids who were coming up (we followed it up by adding 2 of the top 3 available free agents on July 1st) - this year injuries completely derail our season... yet we still make the playoffs... have even more kids develop in between... lose in the 1st round the best team in our conference... and the world is ending? What if we had gone for (arguments sake) 8-6 in the shootout instead of 5-9, we would have had the 5th most points in the conference and played a much easier first round opponent... What if we had won that series and then gotten back Ericsson, and a fully recovered Z? The outlook would be much different I'm sure...
 
For future reference - this is our lineup without Franzen, Weiss, Kindl and Quincey.
 
ZETTERBERG - DATSYUK - MANTHA
NYQUIST         - HELM        - JURCO
TATAR             - SHEAHAN - PULKKINEN
ABBY               - GLENNY    - MILLER
 
KRONWALL - SMITH
DEKEYSER - MARCHENKO
ERICSSON  - SPROUL
 
Please explain to me how we have nothing to be excited about?


So wait Weiss and Franzen have more years left the. Dat and they're not in the lineup but dat is?

Do people not know how to make a proper lineup?

It like expecting mantha to be on the team to start this year? WHEN HAS THAT EVER HAPPENED WITH HOLLAND? It's ok to hope but history and his track record sort of show it won't happen.

#25 DeGraa55

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Posted 03 July 2014 - 11:17 PM

I started the topic because I was annoyed of hearing about how bad we were when we didn't sign Boyle or Niskanen, or that no-one wants to play in Detroit anymore. To me, this represents an approach we as fans believe in that is simply unrealistic, because in the (hard) salary cap era - no team can/will compete for the Stanley Cup on a yearly basis. Not only does the hard cap hinder the money we can spend on free agents every summer, but the 7 year contract also limits free agency availability and allows the best players every year (who aren't ever elite) to receive inflated contracts because of the demand for them.
 
To be honest, I would rather have Quincey for 2 years at 4.25 Million than Niskanen for 7 years at 5.75 Million. Yes, Niskanen is a better Defenseman - but his contract is a representation of 1 decent year he had while playing the majority of his minutes with the top scorer in the NHL. When you consider he was on the 1st PP unit and took the place of Letang for most of the season, 46 points on a top 5 scoring team isn't really that fantastic.
 
Last year at this time (after losing in the 2nd round to the eventual Champs) we were ecstatic about the season we had and the kids who were coming up (we followed it up by adding 2 of the top 3 available free agents on July 1st) - this year injuries completely derail our season... yet we still make the playoffs... have even more kids develop in between... lose in the 1st round the best team in our conference... and the world is ending? What if we had gone for (arguments sake) 8-6 in the shootout instead of 5-9, we would have had the 5th most points in the conference and played a much easier first round opponent... What if we had won that series and then gotten back Ericsson, and a fully recovered Z? The outlook would be much different I'm sure...
 
For future reference - this is our lineup without Franzen, Weiss, Kindl and Quincey.
 
ZETTERBERG - DATSYUK - MANTHA
NYQUIST         - HELM        - JURCO
TATAR             - SHEAHAN - PULKKINEN
ABBY               - GLENNY    - MILLER
 
KRONWALL - SMITH
DEKEYSER - MARCHENKO
ERICSSON  - SPROUL
 
Please explain to me how we have nothing to be excited about?

So wait Weiss and Franzen have more years left the. Dat and they're not in the lineup but dat is?

Do people not know how to make a proper lineup?

It like expecting mantha to be on the team to start this year? WHEN HAS THAT EVER HAPPENED WITH HOLLAND? It's ok to hope but history and his track record sort of show it won't happen.

Also a fourth liner injury prone helm as a number 2 center is TERRIBLE he needs Minimal minutes.

Edited by DeGraa55, 03 July 2014 - 11:19 PM.


#26 frankgrimes

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Posted 04 July 2014 - 01:30 AM

Mantha on the first line in his first NHL season, way to kill his development. Also where are Weiss, Franzen and where is the 8,5 million dollar man Quincey ?

 

I'd rather see the best prospects on GR and experience success instead of maybe missing the playoffs here or at worst fight for a top 5 pick.

 

Also IF excuses don't help the case, did the Blues play the injury card after losing against the Blackhawks ? No and neither should this team, even healthy this hasn't been a good team last year and it clearly showed against Boston.


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#27 jthiel86

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Posted 04 July 2014 - 02:36 AM

Mantha on the first line in his first NHL season, way to kill his development. Also where are Weiss, Franzen and where is the 8,5 million dollar man Quincey ?

 

I'd rather see the best prospects on GR and experience success instead of maybe missing the playoffs here or at worst fight for a top 5 pick.

 

Also IF excuses don't help the case, did the Blues play the injury card after losing against the Blackhawks ? No and neither should this team, even healthy this hasn't been a good team last year and it clearly showed against Boston.

Actually we beat Boston in the regular season series, when healthy...soooooo..... While we may not be a great team, we were MUCH better when healthy.



#28 WingedWheel91

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Posted 04 July 2014 - 07:49 AM

Unfortunately, Mantha will only be making this team in a top 6 role... And based on all reports regarding his defensive inefficiencies - he will also be playing with our 2 best defensive forwards in that top 6 - But none of that matters because those line combinations were NOT my idea of who's pencilled into the lineup next year, it was my best way of displaying the potential depth this team has and what we can look forward to in the future. If you had read the first line before the names, it clearly states "for future reference, this is what our team looks like without Franzen, Weiss, Kindl and Quincey."



#29 wings4thecup06

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Posted 04 July 2014 - 08:24 AM

I still think it would be best for Mantha' long term future if he learned to become a pro in GR - even if for only half a season, just to get himself adjusted to playing against bigger, stronger competition. The Wings don't lose here. If he tears up the AHL in the first half of the season, then it's more experience for him and it'll show he's ready for the next  level, without having to shove him in at the deep end with the possibility of stunting his development. 

 

If he struggles, they can leave him there for longer to adapt and find his game. It's win-win IMO. For the record, it would be awesome to see Mantha start the year with the wings, but I think being in GR, even for a few months, would be beneficial.


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#30 Ekmanc

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Posted 04 July 2014 - 01:52 PM

Actually we beat Boston in the regular season series, when healthy...soooooo..... While we may not be a great team, we were MUCH better when healthy.

And that's why the regular season is the regular season... We beat the Kings too but wouldn't have stood a chance against them in the playoffs, we have a completely hollow defense



#31 DeGraa55

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Posted 04 July 2014 - 01:57 PM

And that's why the regular season is the regular season... We beat the Kings too but wouldn't have stood a chance against them in the playoffs, we have a completely hollow defense


Ya it's great when people think the regular season matters. Playoffs have been and always will be a different animal.

#32 PavelValerievichDatsyuk

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Posted 04 July 2014 - 03:51 PM

And that's why the regular season is the regular season... We beat the Kings too but wouldn't have stood a chance against them in the playoffs, we have a completely hollow defense

So teams don't try in the regular season? Or there level of play in the regular season isn't indicative of their level? So Edmonton could possibly win in the playoffs if they would just make it?

 

I don't buy that the "regular season is the regular season" What is there to back it up? There's always logic behind the discrepancies.

 

We beat the kings in the season because they had some real problems with offence during the season. They worked things out and also brought in Gaborik, which gave them a big boost in the playoffs.

 

We lost so handily to the Bruins in the playoffs because Z and Datsyuk were dealing with significant injuries, our youth disappeared with the playoff pressure due to inexperience, Ericsson injuries forced the Kindl and Lashoff, Weiss injured forced Legwand on the team unsettling the lineup even more since he played himself onto the 4th line.

 

I know, I know, no excuses - but come on - Those factors don't account for the difference between regular season results against the Bruins and playoff results?



#33 Ekmanc

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Posted 04 July 2014 - 04:01 PM

 

I don't buy that the "regular season is the regular season" What is there to back it up? There's always logic behind the discrepancies.

 

Well the fact that we beat the Bruins and Kings in the regular season but got crushed in the playoffs backs it up pretty solidly to me. Edmonton as you mention surely won the regular season series against some top team as well and they still wouldn't have a shot in hell in the playoffs. Surely you've seen enough hockey to see that the compete level goes up dramatically come playoff time, it is much harder to win and teams do play much harder than during a regular season game in the middle of january.

 

And btw in the last 4playoffs we have three first round exits and one second if I recall correctly so your talk about injuries doesn't really matter, we simply are not good enough right now, especially on defense and yet absolutely nothing is done to improve the team.


Edited by Ekmanc, 04 July 2014 - 04:10 PM.


#34 wings4thecup06

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Posted 05 July 2014 - 03:23 AM

Well the fact that we beat the Bruins and Kings in the regular season but got crushed in the playoffs backs it up pretty solidly to me. Edmonton as you mention surely won the regular season series against some top team as well and they still wouldn't have a shot in hell in the playoffs. Surely you've seen enough hockey to see that the compete level goes up dramatically come playoff time, it is much harder to win and teams do play much harder than during a regular season game in the middle of january.

 

And btw in the last 4playoffs we have three first round exits and one second if I recall correctly so your talk about injuries doesn't really matter, we simply are not good enough right now, especially on defense and yet absolutely nothing is done to improve the team.

 

I wouldn't say we got 'crushed' in the playoffs. In fact, we could have won 3 of those 5 games if not for some bad luck. Game 1 was as tight as could be, and we played the Bruins nose to nose. Games 2 and 3, granted, the Wings were outplayed. But game 4, with a 2-0 lead and playing well, that one should have been in the bag. And they played excellent in game 5 but just couldn't beat Rask. 

 

I'm not saying that the Wings were the better team than Boston, but to say they got crushed is a little inaccurate IMO. 


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#35 Ekmanc

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Posted 05 July 2014 - 10:50 AM

 

I wouldn't say we got 'crushed' in the playoffs. In fact, we could have won 3 of those 5 games if not for some bad luck. Game 1 was as tight as could be, and we played the Bruins nose to nose. Games 2 and 3, granted, the Wings were outplayed. But game 4, with a 2-0 lead and playing well, that one should have been in the bag. And they played excellent in game 5 but just couldn't beat Rask. 

 

I'm not saying that the Wings were the better team than Boston, but to say they got crushed is a little inaccurate IMO. 

Well I disagree with this, I think Boston turned it on when they needed to and scored easy goals early in the games and then they just shut us down. Even if the score was close we were never actually close to winning after the first game we created no chances whatsoever.



#36 DeGraa55

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Posted 05 July 2014 - 01:09 PM

Unfortunately, Mantha will only be making this team in a top 6 role... And based on all reports regarding his defensive inefficiencies - he will also be playing with our 2 best defensive forwards in that top 6 - But none of that matters because those line combinations were NOT my idea of who's pencilled into the lineup next year, it was my best way of displaying the potential depth this team has and what we can look forward to in the future. If you had read the first line before the names, it clearly states "for future reference, this is what our team looks like without Franzen, Weiss, Kindl and Quincey."


Read what I said....FRANZEN AND WEISS HAVE MORE YEARS LEFT THEN DAT. So why is dat on theam but not them??!?!?!?!?? SMFH

 
I wouldn't say we got 'crushed' in the playoffs. In fact, we could have won 3 of those 5 games if not for some bad luck. Game 1 was as tight as could be, and we played the Bruins nose to nose. Games 2 and 3, granted, the Wings were outplayed. But game 4, with a 2-0 lead and playing well, that one should have been in the bag. And they played excellent in game 5 but just couldn't beat Rask. 
 
I'm not saying that the Wings were the better team than Boston, but to say they got crushed is a little inaccurate IMO. 


4 games to one is crushed.


Is like if we lost 4 games 1-0. Only four goals scored but a sweep I a sweep.

Now chicago? We cam say that was close...why? Because it was a SEVEN game series not five...

#37 ShanahanMan

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Posted 05 July 2014 - 01:31 PM

 
I wouldn't say we got 'crushed' in the playoffs. In fact, we could have won 3 of those 5 games if not for some bad luck. Game 1 was as tight as could be, and we played the Bruins nose to nose. Games 2 and 3, granted, the Wings were outplayed. But game 4, with a 2-0 lead and playing well, that one should have been in the bag. And they played excellent in game 5 but just couldn't beat Rask. 
 
I'm not saying that the Wings were the better team than Boston, but to say they got crushed is a little inaccurate IMO. 


No dude, there's no sugar coating this one. We got crushed. We got decimated. We got embarrassed. 5 goals in 5 games is straight up shut down.

The Bruins down right outplayed us in every single game and if it wasn't for a tremendous amount of posts and whiffed shots on open nets (ahem, Marchand), the score would have been a massacre.

Out of all the playoff series, including Tampa bay, I honestly would say ours was the most one sided. There was never a doubt in anyone's mind Boston would lose this.

If you can't see this for what it is, than your rose colored glasses are as bright as Holland's.


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#38 number9

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Posted 05 July 2014 - 02:36 PM

No dude, there's no sugar coating this one. We got crushed. We got decimated. We got embarrassed. 5 goals in 5 games is straight up shut down.

The Bruins down right outplayed us in every single game and if it wasn't for a tremendous amount of posts and whiffed shots on open nets (ahem, Marchand), the score would have been a massacre.

Out of all the playoff series, including Tampa bay, I honestly would say ours was the most one sided. There was never a doubt in anyone's mind Boston would lose this.

If you can't see this for what it is, than your rose colored glasses are as bright as Holland's.


The point is we lost. I don't care if it's 7 games against Chi or 5 against Bos, a loss is a loss. Saying it was close or saying we got crushed are both stupid. Many thigs could have gone differently.

#39 Zetts

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Posted 05 July 2014 - 03:40 PM

The point is we lost. I don't care if it's 7 games against Chi or 5 against Bos, a loss is a loss. Saying it was close or saying we got crushed are both stupid. Many thigs could have gone differently.

It does matter when you're evaluating the quality of your team in preparation for the next season though.  Barely losing an extremely hard fought series vs clearly never having a chance in a series suggest two very different things and likely different approaches for what you address in the off-season.



#40 wings4thecup06

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Posted 05 July 2014 - 03:46 PM

It does matter when you're evaluating the quality of your team in preparation for the next season though.  Barely losing an extremely hard fought series vs clearly never having a chance in a series suggest two very different things and likely different approaches for what you address in the off-season.

 

Exactly. Just my opinion that I thought we could have won 2 of the games. That was all. But it's done, the experience counts, and I'm looking forward to next season.


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