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Article on FAs and Red Wings


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#21 Shinzaki

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Posted 03 July 2014 - 09:04 PM

Amway?   Devellano?   Payback for lowballs...like players care about contracts you offered to other guys...in the past?. Really?



#22 number9

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Posted 04 July 2014 - 08:20 PM

Amway?   Devellano?   Payback for lowballs...like players care about contracts you offered to other guys...in the past?. Really?


I'm guessing no one wants to play with that no good Franzen of ours.

#23 Ekmanc

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Posted 04 July 2014 - 08:43 PM

I'm guessing no one wants to play with that no good Franzen of ours.

You guess wrong and also let's not turn this thread into another Franzén  hate-fest as well, we've had more than enough of those already.



#24 number9

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Posted 04 July 2014 - 08:48 PM

You guess wrong and also let's not turn this thread into another Franzén  hate-fest as well, we've had more than enough of those already.


Ur right, it's probably that no good GM of ours

#25 Euro_Twins

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Posted 06 July 2014 - 12:14 AM

Ur right, it's probably that no good GM of ours



It's probably Babcock. Maybe no one likes Zetterberg

#26 StayClassy

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Posted 06 July 2014 - 02:11 AM

I think its the lake


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#27 frankgrimes

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Posted 06 July 2014 - 06:06 AM

Here is another good one, using the teams uge burden of excellence as an imense pressure point http://www.wingingit...s-new-challenge

 


 

Christian Ehrhoff joins the Wings, becomes the piece which puts them over the top, wins the Conn Smythe and finally lifts the Stanley Cup. How many people get it before he does? What's the summer-long narrative that we're chewing up? There's a decent chance that it's all about how Ehrhoff came in as the savior who carried the Wings back to the greatness for which they're destined, but much more likely, the story is about how the genius Red Wings got just the right player and how great they are to be back on top. He'd always be the guy who overcame not being Nicklas Lidstrom to win an award less-impressively than The Perfect Human did back in 2002.

 

If that sounds a bit bleak, then I'm sorry. It's the challenge that Ken Holland has to face. It's his job as the GM to not only ice the best team he can, but to balance their present condition with their future potential and to sell this team to the ownership, to the players, and most-importantly to the fans.

Ken Holland can't afford to not know why players won't come here. He can't afford to fail in overcoming objections. No matter the litany of excuses which come, Ken Holland cannot make the Red Wings a team on an island in the NHL because Ken Holland is already trying to implement a strategy that has built-in disadvantages.


Edited by frankgrimes, 06 July 2014 - 06:07 AM.

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#28 AtomicPunk

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Posted 07 July 2014 - 03:14 PM

I'm not trying to turn this into a "City" topic but I think that is something that cannot totally been ruled out. We live here, we know better. But what has the national media done? Very superficial headlines, Anthony Bourdain's special about the crumbling city, for someone out of town and they only get headlines about Detroit and they hear "the biggest city ever to declare bankruptcy", Kwame trial, oldest building in the NHL things like that, makes the city look bad. I know there are people rebuilding the city block by block and we have a new mayor and a new arena planned and reasons to be optimistic, but to an outsider considering a move here with his family, he doesn't know how lush the suburbs are that he will be moving his family to, he doesn't know about the great golf course right down the street from his house, he just sees the thing on the news that says Detroit is bankrupt and the Big 3 need bailing out and like it or not, it puts a negative light on the city.

 

Like I said, we live here, we know better. But I recently turned down a promotion that would have put me in Oakland, CA. Because on the news and reality shows they showed a lot of violence and gang warfare there and I said, I don't think so. And this is coming from someone from DETROIT since 1983! Perception is sometimes stronger than reality.


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#29 LeftWinger

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Posted 07 July 2014 - 05:50 PM

Detroit is also the smallest big city in the country.  You are far likely to run into trouble in Miami, Chicago, LA, Oakland, New York, Houston, Atlanta, Jacksonville, Fort Lauderdale... Detroit is smaller and the areas are far easier to avoid.  If you like architecture Detroit is an awesome place to tour around.  Players know they aren't going to live in the city of Detroit, but is the 20-30 minute trip worth it? Are the jacked up roads worth it? The player parking at the Joe is NOT worth it, I've parked there, I know.  So the sooner the arena is up and the sooner the mayor gets this city turned around, the better.

 

Most importantly, the sooner our kids establish that they are up and coming and show they are our future Stanley Cup core, then we will see some influx of UFA's here. Too bad it won't be in time for Datsyuk, but there will soon be the next All-Star center here....so lets see.

 

I am just mad that all the improvements happening in the city is pushing the people who don'y give a s*** about their hoods out into the suburbs...I come back to the area every week to work and yes I see the people coming into my neighborhoods...its a sad thing that we cannot just somehow convince these people that nothing worth having is free and that keeping your neighborhood nice is a job worth doing...Inkster, Ecorse, River Rouge...ugh, they're like war zones and its creeping into Woodhaven, Brownstown and Flat Rock....sad, sad, sad...

 

 

Ok, there is my city view for the year. I still believe its the Front Office and players not liking Babcock.  Other than that, nothing has changed anywhere else...we need a change.  Holland needs to step aside, Babcock needs to move on.  A good start would be convincing Larionov to become asst. coach.


Edited by LeftWinger, 07 July 2014 - 05:51 PM.

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#30 GoWings1905

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Posted 07 July 2014 - 09:07 PM

People need to check http://capgeek.com/redwings/ Tatar and DeKeyser need to be signed this off season, and Smith, Nyquist, Jurco, and Andersson need to be signed next off season. It's not smart to be signing UFA's when 6 of your future core players need contracts in 12 months.


Then why waste over four million for two seasons on an unnecessary player? Holland was trying to sign other UFA's anyways. So was that not smart or is it just an excuse now since he failed?

Edited by GoWings1905, 07 July 2014 - 09:11 PM.

 
 
"To whom much is given, much is expected."
 
 

 

 

 

 


#31 Spongewingredpants

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Posted 08 July 2014 - 03:50 AM

i think this article here is very balanced and on the mark

 

http://bleacherrepor...troit-red-wings


My wish: A healthy roster

 

 


#32 kipwinger

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Posted 08 July 2014 - 08:37 AM

There are probably a lot of reasons why we didn't have any luck landing FAs this year, but I thought this was interesting.  A quote from Patrick Eaves about joining the Stars...

 

"He's got a real good thing going down there. I know they're a hard team to play against and yeah, they're making moves. They're going places and I want to be a part of it," Eaves said on Monday.

 

Seems like if you haven't been successful in the recent past, and you're doing things to address that, players pay attention.  I'm certainly not suggesting that you "do something just to do it" or that Patrick Eaves is the kind of FA you want.  But rather that guys want to win, and they recognize when a team is trending upward or downward. 


GMRwings:  "Well, in other civilized countries, 16 years old isn't considered underage.  For instance, I believe the age of consent is 16 in Canada.  There's some US states where it's 16 as well.  

 

Get off the high horse.  Not like she was 10."

 

"Some girls are 17 even though they look 25."

 

 


#33 frankgrimes

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Posted 08 July 2014 - 08:45 AM

There are probably a lot of reasons why we didn't have any luck landing FAs this year, but I thought this was interesting.  A quote from Patrick Eaves about joining the Stars...

 

"He's got a real good thing going down there. I know they're a hard team to play against and yeah, they're making moves. They're going places and I want to be a part of it," Eaves said on Monday.

 

Seems like if you haven't been successful in the recent past, and you're doing things to address that, players pay attention.  I'm certainly not suggesting that you "do something just to do it" or that Patrick Eaves is the kind of FA you want.  But rather that guys want to win, and they recognize when a team is trending upward or downward. 

 

Dallas Stars GM  [Jim Nil] on the acquisition off Jason Spezza

 

"Sometimes You gotta give up assets if you want to improve your team"

 

this is coming from someone who has fixed the Stars center depth in 2 years with Seguin and Spezza. Like I said players aren't stupid, they know what the teams around the league are doing and which ones are trying to get better.  I think players at least want to see  improvement and GMS who are willing to take risks


kftx.jpg

 

The Offseason of truth ...

Welcome to hockeytown Jonas aka Lundquist 2 Gustavsson!

blank cheque for The Captain or Jim Star Nil please..

<< Win it for Mr. Hockey !


#34 Richdg

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Posted 08 July 2014 - 08:58 AM

The city isn't the issue. It has been largely the same for decades. High crime, high unemployment, people leaving etc... Babcock isn't the issue either. Scotty was/is way harder to play for the Babcock ever was or will be. Scotty was the one who went public about trading away Yzerman if he doesn't start buying in to Scotty's way of doing things. Jimmy D was no pushover either. Always was tough on players at contract time.

Point is quit with the excuses. Either you do or not do. There is no try.



#35 kipwinger

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Posted 08 July 2014 - 09:12 AM

The city isn't the issue. It has been largely the same for decades. High crime, high unemployment, people leaving etc... Babcock isn't the issue either. Scotty was/is way harder to play for the Babcock ever was or will be. Scotty was the one who went public about trading away Yzerman if he doesn't start buying in to Scotty's way of doing things. Jimmy D was no pushover either. Always was tough on players at contract time.

Point is quit with the excuses. Either you do or not do. There is no try.

 

I'll agree with the first part, the city is not the issue...or at least is hasn't been for guys like Ivan Rodriguez, Magglio Ordonez, Carlos Guillen, Reggie Bush, Golden Tate, Chauncey Billups, etc. etc. etc.

 

On the subject of Babs I'll say this.  What happened in FA wasn't his fault.  He's not in charge of managing the roster.  I do, however, think that players don't look at him like they did at Bowman.  Sure, Scotty was a d*ck, but he coached a powerhouse team that realistically could win the cup every year.  Babs is a d*ck whose team isn't going to win s***.  So why deal with him?  Ken Hitchcock is notoriously difficult to play for, and he gets FAs because his team is a contender.  I think players would tolerate Babs if we could compete, but we can't, so they don't.  Not his fault, but it does play a part. 


GMRwings:  "Well, in other civilized countries, 16 years old isn't considered underage.  For instance, I believe the age of consent is 16 in Canada.  There's some US states where it's 16 as well.  

 

Get off the high horse.  Not like she was 10."

 

"Some girls are 17 even though they look 25."

 

 


#36 number9

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Posted 08 July 2014 - 09:18 AM

I don't know why the city even gets brought up. Bloomfield Hills is a great place to live.

#37 VM1138

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Posted 08 July 2014 - 10:07 AM

 

I'll agree with the first part, the city is not the issue...or at least is hasn't been for guys like Ivan Rodriguez, Magglio Ordonez, Carlos Guillen, Reggie Bush, Golden Tate, Chauncey Billups, etc. etc. etc.

 

On the subject of Babs I'll say this.  What happened in FA wasn't his fault.  He's not in charge of managing the roster.  I do, however, think that players don't look at him like they did at Bowman.  Sure, Scotty was a d*ck, but he coached a powerhouse team that realistically could win the cup every year.  Babs is a d*ck whose team isn't going to win s***.  So why deal with him?  Ken Hitchcock is notoriously difficult to play for, and he gets FAs because his team is a contender.  I think players would tolerate Babs if we could compete, but we can't, so they don't.  Not his fault, but it does play a part. 

 

Of course, the Tigers have been a strong contender for years now, hence those guys coming to Detroit.  And Billups...well, I don't follow basketball but didn't he suck when he came back?  Likely no one else wanted him and he wanted to go somewhere familiar.

 

The point everyone is making about the city isn't that no one wants to come here just because of that, but if your team is not a contender, there's no reason to choose Detroit over Tampa or Washington or any place with more living perks.  If Detroit were winning, we wouldn't have trouble attracting UFAs.  But since we're not really any better than the rest of the middling teams, the city of Detroit isn't going to be a selling point.


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#38 kipwinger

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Posted 08 July 2014 - 10:17 AM

 

Of course, the Tigers have been a strong contender for years now, hence those guys coming to Detroit.  And Billups...well, I don't follow basketball but didn't he suck when he came back?  Likely no one else wanted him and he wanted to go somewhere familiar.

 

The point everyone is making about the city isn't that no one wants to come here just because of that, but if your team is not a contender, there's no reason to choose Detroit over Tampa or Washington or any place with more living perks.  If Detroit were winning, we wouldn't have trouble attracting UFAs.  But since we're not really any better than the rest of the middling teams, the city of Detroit isn't going to be a selling point.

 

Every single person I mentioned came to those teams before they were contenders.  That's why I mentioned them.  And no, Billups didn't suck before coming to Detroit. 

 

I usually agree with you, but you're off base on this.  The Lions have never been a contender, the Pistons were one AFTER they signed Billups and traded for Hamilton and Wallace, and the Tigers were a contender after signing Guillen, Ordonez, and Rodriguez. 


GMRwings:  "Well, in other civilized countries, 16 years old isn't considered underage.  For instance, I believe the age of consent is 16 in Canada.  There's some US states where it's 16 as well.  

 

Get off the high horse.  Not like she was 10."

 

"Some girls are 17 even though they look 25."

 

 


#39 LeftWinger

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Posted 08 July 2014 - 10:48 AM

I agree Kip.  The Tigers couldn't attract crap until Pudge came here.  Then it seemed like the flood gates opened to more and better players coming and staying.  I guess all the Wings need is that ONE highly respected UFA to come in and on the doors for others...but re-signing #kfq, #f***cleay and mediocre goaltending is not going to help...


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#40 wings87

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Posted 08 July 2014 - 10:57 AM

 

I'll agree with the first part, the city is not the issue...or at least is hasn't been for guys like Ivan Rodriguez, Magglio Ordonez, Carlos Guillen, Reggie Bush, Golden Tate, Chauncey Billups, etc. etc. etc.

 

On the subject of Babs I'll say this.  What happened in FA wasn't his fault.  He's not in charge of managing the roster.  I do, however, think that players don't look at him like they did at Bowman.  Sure, Scotty was a d*ck, but he coached a powerhouse team that realistically could win the cup every year.  Babs is a d*ck whose team isn't going to win s***.  So why deal with him?  Ken Hitchcock is notoriously difficult to play for, and he gets FAs because his team is a contender.  I think players would tolerate Babs if we could compete, but we can't, so they don't.  Not his fault, but it does play a part. 

 

Definitely I agree with you, that if the team was better then most players wouldn't care who the coach was, although I would be weary of players that don't want to play for a tough coach like Babs or Hitchcock. 


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