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What's best for Mantha?


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#21 VM1138

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Posted 06 July 2014 - 11:07 AM

Was Holland this high on Datsyuk and Zetterberg? He's implied he will be building our future forward core around Mantha. Everyone is amazed at this kid. The very fact we are seriously discussing whether he will be given a shot without playing minors says something is different about this kid. I doubt he will be better than our top 6 right now, but as soon as an injury hits give him his chance. He may struggle but with our staff it shouldn't stunt his development to be thrown into the heat of battle. Sent from my ADR6350 using Tapatalk 2
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#22 dat's sick

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Posted 06 July 2014 - 11:41 AM

I don't see a scenario where Mantha's development is hurt by spending a year in GR. 

 

And our team won't really be worse by having Alfie/Jurco on it instead of Mantha, as I assume those 3 pretty much our options for the same roster spot. 

 

Looking forward to seeing Mantha in training camp, I have a feeling he could struggle a bit with the transition to the pro game initially but I hope he can prove me wrong. 



#23 Datsyukian-Deke

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Posted 06 July 2014 - 12:45 PM

I think it's very important that this kid gets handed nothing. He needs to earn his spot. I think he needs to start on the 3rd line in GR and prove he can be in the top 6. Then prove he is capable of getting a call up. When he gets called up, he needs to start on the fourth line. The kid has been a hot shot his whole life and although I think he has a great attitude so far, I don't want him handed a spot and turn into a loafing Franzen that is good only when he wants to be.

#24 nawein

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Posted 06 July 2014 - 12:56 PM

I think it's very important that this kid gets handed nothing. He needs to earn his spot. I think he needs to start on the 3rd line in GR and prove he can be in the top 6. Then prove he is capable of getting a call up. When he gets called up, he needs to start on the fourth line. The kid has been a hot shot his whole life and although I think he has a great attitude so far, I don't want him handed a spot and turn into a loafing Franzen that is good only when he wants to be.


I agree he shouldn't be handed anything. BUT. I think he's already proven he should be top 6 in the AHL. He's not a fourth liner and would be woefully ineffective in that role. He's a scorer, let him score. I get the "overcoming all obstacle makes you better" and stuff but don't set him up to fail and hope he turns out in his favor. He shouldn't be handed anything but he should be put in a position to succeed.

#25 ShanahanMan

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Posted 06 July 2014 - 01:03 PM

Mantha has apparently been pretty underwhelming at the prospect tournament. Don't know if he's burnt out, or just not into it, but hasn't impressed much.

Seems like AA is the star of the show.


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#26 TheXym

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Posted 06 July 2014 - 02:03 PM

This isn't the prospect tournament going on, it's a rookie camp. Mantha and Bertuzzi played a lot more games in through the memorial cup playoffs than the other guys, and Mantha was put out for 90 second to 2 minute shifts regularly. I think some of it is residual fatigue from that.

Edited by TheXym, 06 July 2014 - 02:03 PM.

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#27 Epheisey

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Posted 06 July 2014 - 02:43 PM

He needs to spend a year with the Griffins, just to help him adjust to a high level of competition mentally. He may be talented enough to play in the big leagues already, but a young player can really start to over think his game when they go through a dry spell. THE WORST thing that could happen is he makes the Wings roster, scores 5 goals in the first 10 games, and then goes on a 15-20 game drought, and ends up back in GR. That could totally screw with his head, and really get him down on himself. A youngster used to scoring multiple times a game, to not being able to score over a span of a month or two could really hurt his confidence. He's never in his life been in a situation like that. He has probably never been on the ice and not been the best player or at least top 3. He needs a little time to get a reality check, just to get his expectations in line, before he ends up drowned by the fans who expect him to be scoring 40-50 goals a season, and can't handle the pressure.

 

Also, we have so many young players pushing for the NHL roster right now that we're going to see a couple of the youngsters that made an impact last season in GR as well to start the season. Which I think plays a part in him going to GR. Nyquist wasn't with the team to start the season because he had a 2 way contract. Chances are that even if Mantha is borderline capable of making the roster, he'll fall into that same situation. 



#28 krsmith17

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Posted 06 July 2014 - 02:46 PM

"Top prospect Anthony Mantha didn't figure in the scoring but he didn't disappoint either. Mantha was one of the speediest - as well as one of the best - on the ice and is also among the biggest at 6-5." - Brendan Savage.


Edited by krsmith17, 06 July 2014 - 02:48 PM.


#29 jimmyemeryhunter

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Posted 06 July 2014 - 02:54 PM

He didn't score ten goals.
Trade him.
He's useless.

I'm joking, of course.

But I'd like to see what he does in preseason

Edited by jimmyemeryhunter, 06 July 2014 - 02:57 PM.


#30 Dave

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Posted 06 July 2014 - 03:11 PM

Was Holland this high on Datsyuk and Zetterberg? He's implied he will be building our future forward core around Mantha. Everyone is amazed at this kid. The very fact we are seriously discussing whether he will be given a shot without playing minors says something is different about this kid. I doubt he will be better than our top 6 right now, but as soon as an injury hits give him his chance. He may struggle but with our staff it shouldn't stunt his development to be thrown into the heat of battle. Sent from my ADR6350 using Tapatalk 2

 

I believe Datsyuk was ranked 12th among Detroit's prospects. No one really saw his potential. The fact that he made the team in 2002 was pretty crazy. I think Hull really helped his development and saw his true potential.



#31 Andy Pred 48

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Posted 06 July 2014 - 04:43 PM

he'll be on the roster before xmas. If Kenny pulls off  a deal for a top D then we'll lose a top guy going the other way, so he would be in the line up from the off if that is the case.


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#32 Shinzaki

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Posted 06 July 2014 - 04:48 PM

See what he does in camp...if he can hang in on the top 6....give him the spot.  If he can't, he's the man in GR...with Athanasiou and possibly Teemu, Jurco and Nosek.



#33 Datsyukian-Deke

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Posted 06 July 2014 - 04:50 PM

 
I believe Datsyuk was ranked 12th among Detroit's prospects. No one really saw his potential. The fact that he made the team in 2002 was pretty crazy. I think Hull really helped his development and saw his true potential.


Yea this is what makes the Mantha situation so unique. I can't remember there being this much excitement over a prospect before. Datsyuk and Zetterberg were still relatively unknown when they cracked the lineup. Mantha's size, strength, and scoring ability are certainly something to get excited about.

Cue the "just cuz he can score in the Q doesn't mean it translates to the NHL" argument.

#34 anthonyn66

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Posted 06 July 2014 - 05:38 PM

Side note

 

Blashill sounds exactly like Babcock in interviews..



#35 frankgrimes

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Posted 06 July 2014 - 09:02 PM

This will be his first year as a pro, so let him experience success in GR and give him the for sure coming call up. Just don't rush the kid and let him develop at his own pace.


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#36 DickieDunn

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Posted 07 July 2014 - 07:08 AM

They were pretty excited about both Zetterberg and Datsyuk. Zetterberg was the only non NHL player on Sweden's Olympic team.

Oh this young man has had a very trying rookie season, with the litigation, the notoriety, his subsequent deportation to Canada and that country's refusal to accept him, well, I guess that's more than most 21-year-olds can handle... Ogie Ogilthorpe!


#37 Richdg

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Posted 07 July 2014 - 08:18 AM

Doesn't matter what we think. It is entirely up to Mantha and Holland/Babcock. The later 2 have clearly said he has to earn a spot. Now it is up to Mantha. I think he will earn a spot. 2 reasons: 1. he is that talented 2. we are that thin/weak of a team. We had 1 guy score 20+ goals this year. mantha will do that this year plus. it is the other parts of his game that are the questions: strength, stamina, defense etc....



#38 Echolalia

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Posted 07 July 2014 - 08:44 AM

Doesn't matter what we think. It is entirely up to Mantha and Holland/Babcock. The later 2 have clearly said he has to earn a spot. Now it is up to Mantha. I think he will earn a spot. 2 reasons: 1. he is that talented 2. we are that thin/weak of a team. We had 1 guy score 20+ goals this year. mantha will do that this year plus. it is the other parts of his game that are the questions: strength, stamina, defense etc....

I don't see it happening this year.  Dominating in the QMJHL isn't equal to dominating in the AHL, and neither necessarily translate to success in the NHL.  The Wings are also saturated with forwards, and I just don't see Babcock and Holland trusting Mantha with a full-time roster spot after observing him for a couple scrimmages over players who have already demonstrated competency at the NHL level throughout the previous season(s). 

BUT what is exciting is the potential for this kid is really high.  I was looking at the QMJHL stats from last year, and two other names besides Mantha popped out at me.  Jonathon Drouin, who actually had a higher ppg than Mantha, but only played in 46 games, and Nikolaj Ehlers, who was the only rookie in the top 20 in scoring, and was actually 4th league-wide with 104 points in 63 games.  Drouin was drafted by the Lightning 3rd overall in the 2013 draft.  Ehlers was drafed by the Jets 9th overall in 2014.  Meanwhile, the Red Wings drafted Mantha 20th overall, and this kid is putting up similar numbers as these other top draft picks whom he's playing against.  These other two kids are also under 6 feet, while Mantha is already around 6'5". So if I had to bet on who would be most likely to continue to succeed in bigger and tougher leagues, I would go with Mantha.



#39 Richdg

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Posted 07 July 2014 - 09:13 AM

I don't see it happening this year.  Dominating in the QMJHL isn't equal to dominating in the AHL, and neither necessarily translate to success in the NHL.  The Wings are also saturated with forwards, and I just don't see Babcock and Holland trusting Mantha with a full-time roster spot after observing him for a couple scrimmages over players who have already demonstrated competency at the NHL level throughout the previous season(s). 

BUT what is exciting is the potential for this kid is really high.  I was looking at the QMJHL stats from last year, and two other names besides Mantha popped out at me.  Jonathon Drouin, who actually had a higher ppg than Mantha, but only played in 46 games, and Nikolaj Ehlers, who was the only rookie in the top 20 in scoring, and was actually 4th league-wide with 104 points in 63 games.  Drouin was drafted by the Lightning 3rd overall in the 2013 draft.  Ehlers was drafed by the Jets 9th overall in 2014.  Meanwhile, the Red Wings drafted Mantha 20th overall, and this kid is putting up similar numbers as these other top draft picks whom he's playing against.  These other two kids are also under 6 feet, while Mantha is already around 6'5". So if I had to bet on who would be most likely to continue to succeed in bigger and tougher leagues, I would go with Mantha.

Agreed about the juniors vs pros thing, but and this is huge: Mantha puts the puck into the net. Our other young forwards are not great goal scorers. None of them have ever been big time goal scorers at any level, which goes back to my talent point. Mantha is head and shoulders more talented than most of our other prospects. But and I said this before: it is up to him to win the job. I think he will.



#40 haroldsnepsts

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Posted 07 July 2014 - 09:33 AM

I don't see it happening this year.  Dominating in the QMJHL isn't equal to dominating in the AHL, and neither necessarily translate to success in the NHL.  The Wings are also saturated with forwards, and I just don't see Babcock and Holland trusting Mantha with a full-time roster spot after observing him for a couple scrimmages over players who have already demonstrated competency at the NHL level throughout the previous season(s). 

BUT what is exciting is the potential for this kid is really high.  I was looking at the QMJHL stats from last year, and two other names besides Mantha popped out at me.  Jonathon Drouin, who actually had a higher ppg than Mantha, but only played in 46 games, and Nikolaj Ehlers, who was the only rookie in the top 20 in scoring, and was actually 4th league-wide with 104 points in 63 games.  Drouin was drafted by the Lightning 3rd overall in the 2013 draft.  Ehlers was drafed by the Jets 9th overall in 2014.  Meanwhile, the Red Wings drafted Mantha 20th overall, and this kid is putting up similar numbers as these other top draft picks whom he's playing against.  These other two kids are also under 6 feet, while Mantha is already around 6'5". So if I had to bet on who would be most likely to continue to succeed in bigger and tougher leagues, I would go with Mantha.

 

Agreed . There's a lot to be excited about with Mantha but we'll know a lot more when he gets some games in the AHL.  

 

at 6'5" 205 lbs in the QMJHL he was a men among boys, playing with other mostly smaller 18, 19 and 20 year olds.  







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