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Wings re-sign Cleary $1.5 mill + $1mill in game bonuses



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#461 haroldsnepsts

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Posted 12 July 2014 - 03:12 PM

Of course you missed the point about extrapolation and it not being baseless. Besides, speculation is part of being a fan. It's what happens after the GM puts out cryptic messages.

 

And Harold you really aren't sure whether Cleary's agent would bring that up?

After Holland indicates that he kinda sorta didn't really want to sign him, but loyalty yadda yadda...That's you're honest opinion?

 

There probably isn't a sports agent who wouldn't at the very least try and use that if their client wanted another deal (I know more 'speculation')

 

 

I just don't see why you're creating things to get mad at Cleary about.  There's plenty enough to be mad about as a Red Wings fan right now that is factually known. 



#462 roboturner

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Posted 12 July 2014 - 04:10 PM

 

 

I just don't see why you're creating things to get mad at Cleary about.  There's plenty enough to be mad about as a Red Wings fan right now that is factually known. 

I don't know. I guess because these are the things I'm upset about....  

 

I mean if I said he got resigned because he and Ken want to bond over their love of pokemon, then sure you would be right that I was just 'making s*** up' to be pissed about.

 

I really don't think I'm reaching nearly as much as you are suggesting I am. Not even close. In fact I didn't think I was reaching at all on most of those points I made.


This might be getting a little heated. Just know I don't hate any of you guys.

 

That doesn't mean that I respect ideas & opinions. Some ideas & opinions are ridiculous.

 

In fact, if you confront my ideas & opinions, that will lead to a discussion. (We're on a discussion board after all. Don't forget that!)

 

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#463 gcom007

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Posted 12 July 2014 - 04:33 PM

I'll make it short: The good (drafting, prospects) far outweighs the bad (arguably the missed FAs, signing of washed up Vets).
And, maybe most important for me, the Organisation is a classy one and Holland is a huge reason for that. I don't want to win a cup if we deal with things like Vancouver or Montreal or with having players who behave like assholes on the ice like Lucic.

 

Since getting a new GM automatically means we become a scummy, bottom-feeding team full of assholes...


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#464 number9

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Posted 12 July 2014 - 07:38 PM

I don't know. I guess because these are the things I'm upset about....  
 
I mean if I said he got resigned because he and Ken want to bond over their love of pokemon, then sure you would be right that I was just 'making s*** up' to be pissed about.
 
I really don't think I'm reaching nearly as much as you are suggesting I am. Not even close. In fact I didn't think I was reaching at all on most of those points I made.


Now speculating isn't reaching? Gimme a break

#465 themcityblues

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Posted 12 July 2014 - 08:21 PM

holy s*** 2.5 mil. i was expecting 1 mil.



#466 Barrie

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Posted 12 July 2014 - 09:24 PM

It's only a 1 year deal for $1.5 Million plus, so there's really no reason to get upset. I would think only rookies and guys still RFA's make less then $1.5 Million. We know if Cleary doesn't produce Babs will put him on the 4th line.

 

I don't mind seeing guys like Cleary given a chance to finish off their career with their head high, he's done a lot for the organization, instead of being kicked to the curb.


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#467 GoWings1905

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Posted 12 July 2014 - 09:40 PM

It's only a 1 year deal for $1.5 Million plus, so there's really no reason to get upset. I would think only rookies and guys still RFA's make less then $1.5 Million. We know if Cleary doesn't produce Babs will put him on the 4th line.

 

I don't mind seeing guys like Cleary given a chance to finish off their career with their head high, he's done a lot for the organization, instead of being kicked to the curb.

 

It has the potential and likelihood of being $2.5 million for a player that produced all of eight points last season. Tomas Jurco scored eight goals alone in about 15 fewer games than Cleary and was a big reason why the Red Wings made the playoffs at all. If your argument is that this deal is somehow a bargain for Cleary, I completely disagree. Brendan Morrow and Dany Heatley got less money than Cleary too, so there's two examples of (better) veteran players that were more affordable than Cleary. 

 

Cleary got his chance last season to go out with his head held high (a mistake a year ago too, no less) at the expense of the Red Wings MVP. There's plenty to be upset about. Hence, 24 pages of this thread and not many positive vibes going around. 


Edited by GoWings1905, 12 July 2014 - 09:46 PM.

 
 
"To whom much is given, much is expected."
 
 

 

 

 

 


#468 marcaractac

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Posted 12 July 2014 - 09:56 PM

 

It has the potential and likelihood of being $2.5 million for a player that produced all of eight points last season. Tomas Jurco scored eight goals alone in about 15 fewer games than Cleary and was a big reason why the Red Wings made the playoffs at all. So if your argument is that this deal is somehow a bargain for Cleary, I completely disagree. 

 

Cleary got his chance last season to go out with his head held high at the expense of the Red Wings MVP. There's plenty to be upset about. 

 

Cleary isn't blocking Jurco from playing in the NHL. Even without Cleary, it is pretty obvious he'll be in the AHL to start the season. Alfie returning would have us at 13 forwards not counting Cleary. Cleary and Andersson are gonna be in a dog fight to try to avoid being the 13th and 14th forwards. There are 12 other forwards VERY unlikely to give up a permanent spot to either. It is better to have Cleary taking up a healthy scratch than Jurco, don't you think? 

 

A returning Alfie has more impact on where Jurco starts the season. If Alfie decides he can't play, Jurco will have his shot to win a roster spot. Just like Cleary. If Alfie comes back, Jurco will be the first call up. If he makes an immediate impact, he'll no doubt stick around. 

 

Cleary for one year is a low risk signing. Who cares what the salary is? The cap space was there, and Holland felt he owed him. That's a stand up move whether we agree with it or not. If Cleary is in the lineup, he has to earn his way there. He'll only take a job from a kid if he earns it. In the mean time, if he does in fact have a bounce back season, that is fantastic for us. If he struggles like last year, he won't play. It's really that simple. 

 

It's either give Cleary a contract or give Landon the spot. No offence to him, but nobody seems to high on him anymore. He is likely Emmerton 2.0. At least if Cleary can have a bounce back season, it gives the team a shot of having a playoff warrior on the team to do the dirty work. He was important to the team in the 2013 playoffs while having a rough, injured year. A healthy Cleary come playoff time could be a great thing. If not? It's just a one year contract that does nothing to hurt the team.



#469 PavelValerievichDatsyuk

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Posted 12 July 2014 - 11:24 PM

 

It has the potential and likelihood of being $2.5 million for a player that produced all of eight points last season. Tomas Jurco scored eight goals alone in about 15 fewer games than Cleary and was a big reason why the Red Wings made the playoffs at all. If your argument is that this deal is somehow a bargain for Cleary, I completely disagree. Brendan Morrow and Dany Heatley got less money than Cleary too, so there's two examples of (better) veteran players that were more affordable than Cleary. 

 

Cleary got his chance last season to go out with his head held high (a mistake a year ago too, no less) at the expense of the Red Wings MVP. There's plenty to be upset about. Hence, 24 pages of this thread and not many positive vibes going around. 

I don't like the signing, but I don't think money is really worth complaining about. Last year when Cleary signed at 1.75 mill it was definitely less than what he would have made elsewhere. It was also less than we offered him earlier (2 mill I think). He did this because we were against the cap by the time signed. 2.5 is partly paying for last year's salary I think. This year we are not going to be close to the cap and the 1.5 mill cap hit won't matter. The 1 mill bonus will count against next year's cap - a year when we'll have Mzasek, Mantha, Sproul, and maybe others at low caphit - so it won't matter.

 

The reason to get mad about this signing is because he showed himself as a very ineffective player last year and he takes a roster spot.

 

P.S. Holland said specifically that Cleary would have to beat someone out for a spot and would be a good insurance (paraphrase - I forget exact words.) I still feel like there's a good chance that doesn't play 10 games. If he does play more than 10 games then hopefully it is because the Dan Cleary of old is magically (or medically) back. I'm okay with those 2 scenarios.



#470 number9

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Posted 13 July 2014 - 12:36 AM

I don't like the signing, but I don't think money is really worth complaining about. Last year when Cleary signed at 1.75 mill it was definitely less than what he would have made elsewhere. It was also less than we offered him earlier (2 mill I think). He did this because we were against the cap by the time signed. 2.5 is partly paying for last year's salary I think. This year we are not going to be close to the cap and the 1.5 mill cap hit won't matter. The 1 mill bonus will count against next year's cap - a year when we'll have Mzasek, Mantha, Sproul, and maybe others at low caphit - so it won't matter.
 
The reason to get mad about this signing is because he showed himself as a very ineffective player last year and he takes a roster spot.
 
P.S. Holland said specifically that Cleary would have to beat someone out for a spot and would be a good insurance (paraphrase - I forget exact words.) I still feel like there's a good chance that doesn't play 10 games. If he does play more than 10 games then hopefully it is because the Dan Cleary of old is magically (or medically) back. I'm okay with those 2 scenarios.


Sammy, toots, and Bert are gone, what more do u want from poor Holland? Total tomfoolery?

#471 BottleOfSmoke

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Posted 13 July 2014 - 01:44 AM

Sammy, toots, and Bert are gone, what more do u want from poor Holland? Total tomfoolery?


Not only do I want Total Tomfoolery ™, but I demand Utter Shenanigans along with, dare I say, The Old Razzle Dazzle. "Real Fans" would expect nothing less.

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#472 derblaueClaus

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Posted 13 July 2014 - 03:15 AM

Since getting a new GM automatically means we become a scummy, bottom-feeding team full of assholes...


That is not what I said nor meant. I can understand that you're upset but stop turning my words around.

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#473 Bolgar

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Posted 13 July 2014 - 03:30 AM

 

Posted 19 May 2014 - 09:28 PM

Hope that he will crack the Wings roster next season. He seems to be mature enough this season.

But Holland can resign Cleary and Samuelsson, so I'll try to be patient

That's what I said two months ago in Mantha thread...

 

 

es. If Mantha doesn't make the team out of camp it's because Holland has offered contracts to Bertuzzi, Cleary, Sammy, Jason Williams, Maltby, and Hartigan.

It'll have nothing to do with Mantha not quite being ready.

Holy s*** this rhetoric is getting old.

That's what I got in reply.

 

If it was some KHL team, people would think that this is either otkat (when a player illegally pays part of his salary to coach/manager to get roster spot), or blat (when a player is a friend or relative to coach/manager/someone who pays for the team).



#474 uk_redwing

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Posted 13 July 2014 - 05:41 AM

Mitch Callahan > Dan Cleary. I hope this is reflected in next season's roster.

 

That is all.


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#475 LAWings

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Posted 13 July 2014 - 08:54 AM

Maybe they'll resign Bert and Sammy too as insurance policies again.  Putting the band back to together...reminds me of this:

 



#476 roboturner

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Posted 13 July 2014 - 09:09 AM

Now speculating isn't reaching? Gimme a break

Where did I say that speculation isn't reaching?

 

Did you not understand the difference between blind speculation and extrapolation from existing facts?

In fact I didn't think anything I said was controversial & was being generous saying it was speculation in the first place.


Edited by roboturner, 13 July 2014 - 11:30 AM.

This might be getting a little heated. Just know I don't hate any of you guys.

 

That doesn't mean that I respect ideas & opinions. Some ideas & opinions are ridiculous.

 

In fact, if you confront my ideas & opinions, that will lead to a discussion. (We're on a discussion board after all. Don't forget that!)

 

  :bye1: :bye1: :bye1: :bye1: :bye1: :bye1: :bye1: :bye1:


#477 Playmaker

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Posted 13 July 2014 - 11:09 AM

Don't think I've seen this mentioned, but is there any possibility that perhaps this is something that the Ilitch family wanted?  They are known to be staunchly loyal to "their boys". 



#478 Echolalia

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Posted 13 July 2014 - 11:50 AM

Let him play his 10 games to receive his bonus, and if he doesn't impress and show he belongs in the top 12 in those 10 games, then scratch him for the rest of the season. Holland stays loyal to his word, Cleary gets the money he left on the table, and a fair chance to prove himself. If it doesn't work out, one of the youngsters plays for the remaining 72 games.
It still pisses me off, but I can deal with the above scenario.

#479 number9

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Posted 13 July 2014 - 12:47 PM

"Of course I can explain what's wrong with this, I just don't want to! I'll just say it's made up cuz i'm a mod" Well done harold, well done.

 

Sure it's speculation. But it isn't baseless. It's called extrapolation and its amazing the amount of info you can get by it. You should try it sometime!

Answer me this:

Do you really think he turned down a 3 year deal from Detroit because his heart was in Detroit? Does that make sense to you?

        - doesn't make sense to me

 

Did he turn down multi-year offers from multiple teams (or even 1 team) to come back? Or was it a tryout with one team with no guarantees?

        -Indications are it was the latter (I'll admit I'm not positive as its been claimed both ways, still alot of confusion about this)

 

Do you think this handshake deal has nothing to do with this signing?

        -Quotes from Holland strongly indicate it does

 

Do you really think his agent was just going to forget about said deal?

        -Wouldn't be much of an agent if he did. Of course he's going to reach out to the GM about it.

 

And please tell me what kind of positive leadership the guy is bringing to the table and (if there is any) how that outweighs his on ice performances.

        -If they need his locker room presence so bad then they could pay him to sit in the locker room. Pay him a million buck for a few years to be 'President of Team Morale'. No need to sign him to a playing contract.

 

 

I don't know. I guess because these are the things I'm upset about....  

 

I mean if I said he got resigned because he and Ken want to bond over their love of pokemon, then sure you would be right that I was just 'making s*** up' to be pissed about.

 

I really don't think I'm reaching nearly as much as you are suggesting I am. Not even close. In fact I didn't think I was reaching at all on most of those points I made.

 

 

Where did I say that speculation isn't reaching?

 

Did you not understand the difference between blind speculation and extrapolation from existing facts?

In fact I didn't think anything I said was controversial & was being generous saying it was speculation in the first place.

 

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#480 roboturner

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Posted 13 July 2014 - 02:18 PM

Where did I say that speculation isn't reaching?

 

Did you not understand the difference between blind speculation and extrapolation from existing facts?

In fact I didn't think anything I said was controversial & was being generous saying it was speculation in the first place.

Still don't understand the difference, do you?

 

Again, I was bending over backwards here. First he used the word speculating so I used the word speculating to answer him (and even explained that it wasn't mindless; that it comes from other known info. But hey, go ahead & just keep ignoring that!). Then he used reaching, so I used reaching to answer him. Simple as that.


Edited by roboturner, 13 July 2014 - 02:28 PM.

This might be getting a little heated. Just know I don't hate any of you guys.

 

That doesn't mean that I respect ideas & opinions. Some ideas & opinions are ridiculous.

 

In fact, if you confront my ideas & opinions, that will lead to a discussion. (We're on a discussion board after all. Don't forget that!)

 

  :bye1: :bye1: :bye1: :bye1: :bye1: :bye1: :bye1: :bye1:






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