Red Wings & the Media

[frankgrimes 1,836]

My problem with bloggers is this:

In this day and age almost everyone - including me - could create his own blog (all you need is wordpress and some basic css knowledge) dedicated to the Wings but expecting PR/Management access ? I really think that's pushing it. Blogs can be very good, if the bloggert knows how to provide his information. Sadly there are also a lot of bad ones, especially the fanboy or I'll rant about everything ones.

Journalists on the other hand should be held to a much higher standard and should be required to fullfill it. Some of them are really going over the line (ie. phoning Reimers mum, calling Seguin out for the ***** joke, running Richards and Carter out of Philadelphia.and of course Cox famous rant about Kessel), if I were the GM I'd be phoning their boss and telling him in a very non candid way about the consequences if another article like this gets published. A good of friend of mine is studying PR and they are told to NOT cross the line.

Helen St. James for sure has information but I 've stopped reading her stuff because it's always "they Wings are great, Holland is doing the right thing..." Ansar Khan at least questions some of the moves and provides just as good - if not even better - articles.

BUT something has to be done about the Wings video portal:

It is horrible: it is so uncessary hard to find stuff such as interviews, there is no structure at all. Take a page out of the blueshirtsunited Rangers site it is well structured, looks different and very easy to navigate and find stuff. Why aren't the Wings doing something similar ? Give the fans an option to rewatch pressers, GM conferences and development analysis from our coaching stuff. That to me is worth more than useless breakfasts and other stuff.

[kipwinger 8,518]

The media plays an important role as an independent check on any organization that it's covering. They're always disparaged, and 90% of the time they deserve it, but when they're doing their job everybody is thankful. I'm sure, if they tried, everyone here can think of a time in which the public was introduced to some (very important) piece of information because a journalist was out there doing his or her job. So this senseless media bashing is exactly that.

Having said that, I do think that there's some merit to this article. If only to point out the utter ineptness of the local sports media, in particular. Put aside the bloggers (I know, it's just opinion), or free agency preferences (I know, they're subjective), and all the recent stuff. Set it aside. And even then the recent loss of Tom Renney and hiring of Tony Granato got me thinking...do any of you recall seeing a single article about the decline of our powerplay? Anybody remember that ever being a question asked of Babs or Holland? This is just one example, I know, but our powerplay has been getting worse each year for a while now. One of the justifications for signing Quincey, Sammy, and Alfie was that these guys would help on the powerplay. The Detroit sports media regurgitated that fact ad nauseam. And then...no results, and nobody asked a single question. And this isn't something that involves much subjectivity the way free agency or trades do. This is a fact. The powerplay stinks. And nobody bothers to find out why. If it's brought up at all, it's only to say "the powerplay is bad, here's Babs' or Hollands' ready made quote on the subject", which nobody bothers to follow up on. Would it have killed someone over at Mlive to put in a call to Red Berensen, or Terry Murray, and see if they had any thoughts...ya know...being experts on the subject and all? That's bad journalism.

But can you really blame Khan, St. James, etc. for not asking? Fans don't want that story. Hell, the one and only writer in Detroit who isn't afraid to write unpopular articles (Drew Sharpe) is attacked endlessly by fans for being a troll, and then they complain about how no writers are willing to go against the grain. Hmmm.

Edited July 16, 2014 by kipwinger

[hillbillywingsfan 792]

Drew Sharp is a d-bag who DOES in fact troll all things UofM. If you think otherwise then you haven't really seen him in action.

[kipwinger 8,518]

Drew Sharp is a d-bag who DOES in fact troll all things UofM. If you think otherwise then you haven't really seen him in action.

I read Drew Sharp all the time. I don't agree with you.

[Guest Playmaker]

I think some fans are confused as to what a journalist is, the difference between a beat reporter, a columnist, etc.

HSJ and Khan are beat reporters. Their job is to report the daily goings on of the team in a somewhat factual manner. I'm relatively sure I've seen the issues with the power play reported. HSJ asked Holland about Franzen being bought out, she asked Holland about the unpopularity of Cleary's signing. What exactly is she supposed to do? Post nude pics?

Drew Sharp, Mitch Albom, Bob Wojnowski, etc, they are columnists. Their job is to give their opinions. If they are too agreeable and don't get readers fired up, they won't have a job long.

[kipwinger 8,518]

HSJ and Khan are beat reporters. Their job is to report the daily goings on of the team in a somewhat factual manner. I'm relatively sure I've seen the issues with the power play reported. HSJ asked Holland about Franzen being bought out, she asked Holland about the unpopularity of Cleary's signing. What exactly is she supposed to do? Post nude pics?

I agree. And god knows I DEFINITELY don't want to see nude pics of Helen St. James. But I think you're downplaying it a bit.

HSJ: "What's wrong with the powerplay coach Babcock".

MB: "We need to execute and play heavier".

HSJ: "Okey dokey, thanks coach. Print it boys".

Nobody is expecting a beat reporter to take team officials to task, but there's a little more to their jobs than just repeating exactly what KH or Babs says without doing any other work whatsoever.

Edited July 16, 2014 by kipwinger

[hillbillywingsfan 792]

I read Drew Sharp all the time. I don't agree with you.

Are you a UofM fan?

It is well known that he always write negative articles not only about UofM but the whole state of Michigan and Michigan sports. It;s one thing to be objective but to go to the lengths that he does to talk bad about all of Michigan sports is a bit much. I understand his thing is to take the unpopular stand on all subjects but he goes over a lot.

example of him trying to start something but gets smacked down.

Edited July 16, 2014 by hillbillywingsfan

[kipwinger 8,518]

Are you a UofM fan?

Yep. And I'm not really sure how the two things (liking Drew Sharp's articles and being a Michigan fan) are mutually exclusive. I don't agree with some things he says, and I do agree with some things he says. But I don't think he's got a vendetta out against the University, team, coaching staff, players, etc.

To be honest, U of M is a football school which hasn't been nationally relevant at football for a while. Drew Sharp recognizes this and reports it the way anybody trying to objective would. But that's a tough pill to swallow for most Michigan fans because unlike a sports journalist, fans have an emotional investment in the outcome of the season.

Similarly the Wings are really no longer relevant in their sport. Soon the media will hop off the bandwagon, get a little more critical, and acknowledge this fact too. And I'd imagine all of us on this forum will be outraged in a similar way as you are when Sharp says something you don't like. We already do when Eddie Olczyk or Ryan Lambert criticize the Wings. But they don't have some bias. They just aren't fans, so they see different things than we do and those things sometimes aren't very good. And we don't like that.

Edited July 16, 2014 by kipwinger

[hillbillywingsfan 792]

Yep. And I'm not really sure how the two things (liking Drew Sharp's articles and being a Michigan fan) are mutually exclusive. I don't agree with some things he says, and I do agree with some things he says. But I don't think he's got a vendetta out against the University, team, coaching staff, players, etc.

To be honest, U of M is a football school which hasn't been nationally relevant at football for a while. Drew Sharp recognizes this and reports it the way anybody trying to objective would. But that's a tough pill to swallow for most Michigan fans because unlike a sports journalist, fans have an emotional investment in the outcome of the season.

Similarly the Wings are really no longer relevant in their sport. Soon the media will hop off the bandwagon, get a little more critical, and acknowledge this fact too. And I'd imagine all of us on this forum will be outraged in a similar way as you are when Sharp says something you don't like. We already do when Eddie Olczyk or Ryan Lambert criticize the Wings. But they don't have some bias. They just aren't fans, so they see different things than we do and those things sometimes aren't very good. And we don't like that.

hahahahahaha yeah OK. I think it would be safe to say that a much larger % of fans don't' agree with you on that. But hey it's your opinion.

[kipwinger 8,518]

hahahahahaha yeah OK. I think it would be safe to say that a much larger % of fans don't' agree with you on that. But hey it's your opinion.

I'm not sure what we're disagreeing about right now? We both agree that Drew Sharp discusses Michigan as though they're not a very good football program. He totally does that. And what's more, that's a pretty accurate depiction of Michigan football currently. I'd be way more suspect of a sports writer if they DID think Michigan was good. They simply aren't right now. They can't beat their biggest rivals, they aren't competing for National titles, and they seem utterly befuddled about the future of their program. What's he supposed to say about them? They're on the right track?

Surely you'd agree that when a team is bad, an objective sportscaster will say they're bad? Likewise, when a team is good, someone trying to be objective will report that they're good? Those are truisms. It seems like you want Drew to say good things about a bad team, which would be insane.

Edited July 16, 2014 by kipwinger

[hillbillywingsfan 792]

I'm not sure what we're disagreeing about right now? We both agree that Drew Sharp discusses Michigan as though they're not a very good football program. He totally does that. And what's more, that's a pretty accurate depiction of Michigan football currently. I'd be way more suspect of a sports writer if they DID think Michigan was good. They simply aren't right now. They can't beat their biggest rivals, they aren't competing for National titles, and they seem utterly befuddled about the future of their program. What's he supposed to say about them? They're on the right track?

Surely you'd agree that when a team is bad, an objective sportscaster will say they're bad? Likewise, when a team is good, someone trying to be objective will report that they're good? Those are truisms. It seems like you want Drew to say good things about a bad team, which would be insane.

Go back and read my whole post. I know I updated it a few times. Again I'm fine with some one in the media saying that a team is bad when they are. I want that. But Drew takes it to a whole different level as you can see in his interviews and such. Like I said it's one thing to always take the road least traveled but don't be such a dick about it. When everything you post about a program is 90+% negative it's gets really old. And yes before you or anyone else says it I don't go out and search for his articles and try to never read any but its hard when you have a ton of fans saying the same things that I am about the guy.

[Guest Playmaker]

The media plays an important role as an independent check on any organization that it's covering. They're always disparaged, and 90% of the time they deserve it, but when they're doing their job everybody is thankful. I'm sure, if they tried, everyone here can think of a time in which the public was introduced to some (very important) piece of information because a journalist was out there doing his or her job. So this senseless media bashing is exactly that.

Having said that, I do think that there's some merit to this article. If only to point out the utter ineptness of the local sports media, in particular. Put aside the bloggers (I know, it's just opinion), or free agency preferences (I know, they're subjective), and all the recent stuff. Set it aside. And even then the recent loss of Tom Renney and hiring of Tony Granato got me thinking...do any of you recall seeing a single article about the decline of our powerplay? Anybody remember that ever being a question asked of Babs or Holland? This is just one example, I know, but our powerplay has been getting worse each year for a while now. One of the justifications for signing Quincey, Sammy, and Alfie was that these guys would help on the powerplay. The Detroit sports media regurgitated that fact ad nauseam. And then...no results, and nobody asked a single question. And this isn't something that involves much subjectivity the way free agency or trades do. This is a fact. The powerplay stinks. And nobody bothers to find out why. If it's brought up at all, it's only to say "the powerplay is bad, here's Babs' or Hollands' ready made quote on the subject", which nobody bothers to follow up on. Would it have killed someone over at Mlive to put in a call to Red Berensen, or Terry Murray, and see if they had any thoughts...ya know...being experts on the subject and all? That's bad journalism.

But can you really blame Khan, St. James, etc. for not asking? Fans don't want that story. Hell, the one and only writer in Detroit who isn't afraid to write unpopular articles (Drew Sharpe) is attacked endlessly by fans for being a troll, and then they complain about how no writers are willing to go against the grain. Hmmm.

Sammy didn't play at all due to injuries, Alfie did help the powerplay while he was healthy and I never recall signing Quincey to help the power play. WTF do you expect Babs or Holland to say? Well, gee Keets, the powerplay sucks because Kenny isn't getting me quality players. It has nothing to do with my ability to coach. Or gee, that Renney clown has totally sucked ass and hasn't done a damn thing to help out this PP. When guys like Tortorella ARE actually honest and berate others publicly, fans have a fit and it generally isn't received well be management. And who gives a flying f*** what Red Berensen's opinion of the Wings PP is? He's a college coach that's a thousand years old. Mickey Redmond often gives his opinion on things like this, as it is his job, and usually does so honestly without being overly critical of the organization that employs him.

[kipwinger 8,518]

Sammy didn't play at all due to injuries, Alfie did help the powerplay while he was healthy and I never recall signing Quincey to help the power play. WTF do you expect Babs or Holland to say? Well, gee Keets, the powerplay sucks because Kenny isn't getting me quality players. It has nothing to do with my ability to coach. Or gee, that Renney clown has totally sucked ass and hasn't done a damn thing to help out this PP. When guys like Tortorella ARE actually honest and berate others publicly, fans have a fit and it generally isn't received well be management. And who gives a flying f*** what Red Berensen's opinion of the Wings PP is? He's a college coach that's a thousand years old. Mickey Redmond often gives his opinion on things like this, as it is his job, and usually does so honestly without being overly critical of the organization that employs him.

I don't expect Babs or Holland to say "Renney sucks", I expect the reporters to say "Renney sucks" IF he actually does suck. And to determine that, they should talk to people outside the organization, who nevertheless, actually might know something about hockey and powerplays. Not simply repeat back what KH or Babs says, because as you've mentioned, those guys are DEFINITELY NOT going to say "Renney sucks"...even if it's true. And they shouldn't be expected to do so.

It's not like I'm asking them to perform some sort of journalistic black magic. Verifying the accuracy of what's being told to you, and getting the thoughts of knowledgeable outsiders is standard practice for journalists.

[kipwinger 8,518]

Go back and read my whole post. I know I updated it a few times. Again I'm fine with some one in the media saying that a team is bad when they are. I want that. But Drew takes it to a whole different level as you can see in his interviews and such. Like I said it's one thing to always take the road least traveled but don't be such a **** about it. When everything you post about a program is 90+% negative it's gets really old. And yes before you or anyone else says it I don't go out and search for his articles and try to never read any but its hard when you have a ton of fans saying the same things that I am about the guy.

Look man, I'm not trying to talk you into liking Drew Sharp. I honestly don't care if you like him or not. I loathe Mitch Albom, there's nothing that anybody's going to say to make me like his articles, so I understand where you're coming from. But what I would say is this. A) Being a dick, while irksome, doesn't mean he's got a bias against the team. I know lots of dicks who are fans of the team. The two things don't go together. B) As I've already said, 90% of fans don't like Drew because 90% of U of M fans LOVE that team...and he says bad things about the team. It doesn't mean those things aren't true. It just means they have an emotional investment in something he doesn't.

It's like how pissed off parents would get if you criticized their kids. It's not that their kids are infallible. It's just that nobody likes hearing negativity directed at something they love. But as a life long Michigan fan, I can say honestly, that a sober (and therefore negative since the team is bad) assessment of U of M football is not only justified but may actually be beneficial in the long run.

[Guest DeGraa55]

Drew Sharp is a d-bag who DOES in fact troll all things UofM. If you think otherwise then you haven't really seen him in action.

Lol god I remember some of his crap. This has been a well known fact for years.

[hillbillywingsfan 792]

Look man, I'm not trying to talk you into liking Drew Sharp. I honestly don't care if you like him or not. I loathe Mitch Albom, there's nothing that anybody's going to say to make me like his articles, so I understand where you're coming from. But what I would say is this. A) Being a ****, while irksome, doesn't mean he's got a bias against the team. I know lots of dicks who are fans of the team. The two things don't go together. B) As I've already said, 90% of fans don't like Drew because 90% of U of M fans LOVE that team...and he says bad things about the team. It doesn't mean those things aren't true. It just means they have an emotional investment in something he doesn't.

It's like how pissed off parents would get if you criticized their kids. It's not that their kids are infallible. It's just that nobody likes hearing negativity directed at something they love. But as a life long Michigan fan, I can say honestly, that a sober (and therefore negative since the team is bad) assessment of U of M football is not only justified but may actually be beneficial in the long run.

I really think you are missing my point on him. I really don't care if anyone says something bad about a team that is doing bad.heck I will say Michigan is not doing well and that they suck sometimes..just like with the wings...but to do it even when they do good...and to never really say anything good about a team much less the whole state of Michigan just is over board to me and just makes him look like a trolling d-bag.

[kipwinger 8,518]

I really think you are missing my point on him. I really don't care if anyone says something bad about a team that is doing bad.heck I will say Michigan is not doing well and that they suck sometimes..just like with the wings...but to do it even when they do good...and to never really say anything good about a team much less the whole state of Michigan just is over board to me and just makes him look like a trolling d-bag.

I've never heard him disparage the state so I can't speak to that. Also, as far as him saying bad things "even when Michigan is good", we haven't been good in over a decade. We've won 2 bowl games in ten years, and beat our biggest rival once in ten years. Winning Conference Championships and mid-level bowl games is fine if you're Purdue, or Northwestern. Nobody expects you to be better. But Michigan?

I guess my point is, Michigan football is supposed to be a nationally relevant football program. That's the standard they've set for themselves, and what we've come to expect. They haven't lived up to that in a VERY long time, and don't seem to be making any headway toward that now. So I don't expect Drew Sharp to gush over them winning the odd Big Ten Title, or Gator Bowl. If U of M wants more respect from the media, they need to win more. And just like when the Tigers are good, or the Red Wings, or the Pistons, Drew will fall in line and write all the fluff pieces that fans can read. But he won't if they aren't.

Now, if you're talking about his demeanor? I don't find it particularly problematic, but if you do I'm going to say you're wrong. It's your opinion.

[uk_redwing 495]

Since when did having an opinion not become part of journalism? Especially sports journalism? That's half the point of the job, otherwise there would only be one writer writing all the content for every outlet!

There is also a strong difference between an opinion and stating the obvious a-la Cleary. You don't have to tear the move to shreds, but you especially don't have to go the other way and provide counter-PR bulls*** like Khan on MLive. His recent Q&A session ignored about 90% of the questions about the management and their pathetic moves in the past few years.

Why not make an article on the after-effects this may have on the other young players? Why not make an article on the other possible options the Wings could have had for the money, or other options that are still out there? That isn't opinion, that's realistic possible scenarios based on facts. That's journalism. Journalism isn't about being a mindless type writer.

I will finish by saying my views are based on the fact I am a sports journalist.

Edited July 16, 2014 by uk_redwing

[kipwinger 8,518]

I will finish by saying my views are based on the fact I am a sports journalist.

Mitch? Is that you? If you're listening, I just want you to know I hate the mawkish, faux sentimentality, of your articles and your obviously over-inflated view of the profundity of your insights. A lot. I mean, I really hate your articles. You suck.

Otherwise...

Drew Sharp? Is that you? If you're listening, I just want to say...

Edited July 16, 2014 by kipwinger

[StormJH1 231]

Wow, this article really opened my eyes to some things I hadn't thought about in detail. To be fair, I don't live in Detroit anymore, so I had always assumed that there were sources of Red Wings access that I hadn't discovered. I got on Twitter around 2010-ish and tried to figure out who all the good "follows" were. There really weren't any. Helene St. James does a decent job, but isn't much of a Twitter presence. Ansar Khan is probably the closest thing people identified as a "beat writer" in the last few years, but he works for a publication that is barely a "publication", and he wasn't even on Twitter for years (and only sparingly now). And when these people do report information (as the article said), it's generally the type of stuff you would see on the Wings' own site or NHL.com anyway.

Sports radio basically refuses to cover the team like they would cover football and baseball, but for that, they blame the fans ("the phone lines go dead as soon as we start a hockey topic"). The papers are either broke, or too cozy with the organization to call out the front office on anything.

It's made it really frustrating to be an out-of-market fan. The national media perspective on the Wings is some kind of hybrid between "San Antonio Spurs" and "Notre Dame". In other words, there's still a general reverence and respect for the history of the team and how they've stayed competitive at the same time...but at the same time, they're talked about derisively as this relic of a former era that has yet to come to terms with its current mediocrity.

Mike Russo of Star Tribune here in Minnesota is an AWESOME beat writer. He has full access to the entire team (including the coaches, GM, and owner), a constant Twitter/blog presence, and yet will rip them as hard as anyone (directly or overtly) when the Wild make questionable moves or are playing poorly. And this is NOT a market known for having a tough sports media.

I can't help but feel that the absence of strong, passionate media figures (and especially those tied to the major networks and papers) has really been a detriment to the fan experience since late last decade, and probably earlier.

[hillbillywingsfan 792]

[uk_redwing 495]

Mitch? Is that you? If you're listening, I just want you to know I hate the mawkish, faux sentimentality, of your articles and your obviously over-inflated view of the profundity of your insights. A lot. I mean, I really hate your articles. You suck.

Otherwise...

Drew Sharp? Is that you? If you're listening, I just want to say...

I honestly took nothing out of this post and don't understand its point.

[kipwinger 8,518]

I honestly took nothing out of this post and don't understand its point.

Lighten up dude. It was a lighthearted reference to the discussion we've been having for the last two pages. It wasn't an attack on you or your post (which I agree with actually).

[uk_redwing 495]

Lighten up dude. It was a lighthearted reference to the discussion we've been having for the last two pages. It wasn't an attack on you or your post (which I agree with actually).

Why lighten up? I'm already light as a cloud.

An inside joke? I see how it is...

[Son of a Wing 1,644]

I feel like this piece was purposely released at a time when Red Wings fans are at their angriest to have maximum effect.

Time to call the...