Signed Dekeyser signed. 2 yrs $2.187 million AAV

[PavelValerievichDatsyuk 1,935]

She's essentially Ken Holland, in the form of a "reporter." I can read press releases and Holland's tireless quotes if I want the organizational spin.

What in that article do you actually disagree with?

Helen called for Quincey to be traded or scratched last year. She wrote that Clearly shouldn't be brought back this summer.

She gets more flack than she deserves.

[Guest DeGraa55]

What in that article do you actually disagree with?

Helen called for Quincey to be traded or scratched last year. She wrote that Clearly shouldn't be brought back this summer.

She gets more flack than she deserves.

Ya those two things are a no brainer. The only one who disagrees is holland

[themcityblues 249]

I don't know much about the business side of hockey -- What would happen if they do not reach an agreement?

[Guest DeGraa55]

I don't know much about the business side of hockey -- What would happen if they do not reach an agreement?

Then he doesn't play until they do. Another team could offer sheet him which if he signs then the wings can match it to keep him.

There is a deadline to sign to play this year i'm not sure on te exact date but I believe maybe in mid December?

Edited September 11, 2014 by DeGraa55

[frankgrimes 1,836]

Great great summer and it gets better each week way to go Kenny... Danny may not have a lot of leverage right now but if they low ball him he is going to be remember it when push comes to shove.

That's exactly why other teams are making their signings based on priorities instead of panic ones that cost the team almost 6 million against the cap

[Euro_Twins 4,475]

Great great summer and it gets better each week way to go Kenny... Danny may not have a lot of leverage right now but if they low ball him he is going to be remember it when push comes to shove. That's exactly why other teams are making their signings based on priorities instead of panic ones that cost the team almost 6 million against the cap

$6.75 if you factor in clearys bonus. But this has happened to plenty of teams before. Look at the mess Montreal had with subban the past couple years.

[kliq 3,755]

Great great summer and it gets better each week way to go Kenny... Danny may not have a lot of leverage right now but if they low ball him he is going to be remember it when push comes to shove. That's exactly why other teams are making their signings based on priorities instead of panic ones that cost the team almost 6 million against the cap

Cleary wasn't signed due to panic, he was signed due to a promise made a year ago, Holland had to sign him. Personally I was hoping Cleary just retired and took an office job, but he wanted to play. Quincey, ya that one I wish didnt happen at 4.25 million per year.

Edited September 11, 2014 by kliq

[Jesusberg 1,256]

Between Danny and the Wings being apart on the contract, and Ericsson saying his finger isn't 100%... can you imagine that defensive core to start the year if both situations go south? Yuck.

Please sign, DD.

[frankgrimes 1,836]

Guess what I'd like to see that happen because it would show everyone how ridiculous this defense is without Danny

Also a super way to make Babs job easier

[Echolalia 2,961]

Between Danny and the Wings being apart on the contract, and Ericsson saying his finger isn't 100%... can you imagine that defensive core to start the year if both situations go south? Yuck.

Please sign, DD.

When did Ericsson mention his finger is still not fully healed?

[under_par_00 45]

When did Ericsson mention his finger is still not fully healed?

http://www.mlive.com/redwings/index.ssf/2014/09/red_wings_jonathan_ericsson_br.html

[gcom007 1,465]

When I think about Quincey's contract at this point, I really just lose my will to even care. Then you add in the whole Cleary thing. I had enough distance as the summer went on to become less inherently frustrated with the moves Holland has made, but as this goes on and I'm forced to remember those deals...I get angry for an instant, and then it's just a sinking feeling. I'm sure this will get worked out, but it's just so stupid that it's actually had to get to this point.

And to be honest, I think the Quincey signing bothers me more, as it was just such a haphazard decision. At least the Cleary deal went down because Holland was being loyal to Cleary after the handshake agreement the year before, and that agreement was made coming off a 10 point playoff performance. Whether that performance had a lot to do with luck or not (I've said "luck" all along despite not being the most outspoken Cleary critic), at least it was something that is somewhat, well, kinda almost maybe a little understandable, albeit colossally frustrating if not infuriating.

But Quincey?

That was a stupid, knee-jerk, haphazard decision. And it was for too much money for a guy you clearly didn't want to sign. It's all the more stupid when you consider the fact that you do have to sign Dekeyser still. Yes, it's not a cut and dry comparison as one is a UFA and the other is an RFA, but you have to be an idiot if you think that didn't send a message to Dekeyser's camp, and it was the wrong message to send considering Dekeyser stands to be important to this team for the long-run when Quincey should've been a guy shown the door.

This whole summer for the Wings has been nothing short of a pathetic and unfortunate example of why we are not among the elite teams in the league right now. The elite teams find a way to get it done on and off the ice, and the two go hand in hand.

[frankgrimes 1,836]

Great analysis thank got for that well done sir!

Everyone knew from the day that albatross of a contract was signed that it will send a message to the Dekeyser camp. The guy has seen him play live, saw him on waivers and re_signed for 8.5 over two years...

Danny is by far the better player heck I'll go as far as saying he was our second best defender after Kronner. So if I'm him I'll be thinking fine I'm a RFA but I'm still better than that 4.25 guy in every aspect of the game..

So everything under 3.5 is an insult and I wouldn't care one bit if there's enough money left to sign Alfie or not.

If the relationship between the two goes south I'll be very disappointed and angry with a special overly loyal GM

[themcityblues 249]

I'd argue DD is the most important young player on this team, above Nyquist and Tatar. And yet Kenny signs Cleary and Quincey while he lowballs his #1 defensive prospect and doesn't have him signed up a few weeks before preseason. Damn, you'd think Kenny would understand priorities.

[kliq 3,755]

That was a stupid, knee-jerk, haphazard decision. And it was for too much money for a guy you clearly didn't want to sign. It's all the more stupid when you consider the fact that you do have to sign Dekeyser still. Yes, it's not a cut and dry comparison as one is a UFA and the other is an RFA, but you have to be an idiot if you think that didn't send a message to Dekeyser's camp, and it was the wrong message to send considering Dekeyser stands to be important to this team for the long-run when Quincey should've been a guy shown the door.

This whole summer for the Wings has been nothing short of a pathetic and unfortunate example of why we are not among the elite teams in the league right now. The elite teams find a way to get it done on and off the ice, and the two go hand in hand.

DD and Quincey both have the same agent

Here is a tidbit from the article posted in this thread by BottleOfSmoke which is written by Nsar Khan regarding DD & Quincey.

"His defense partner, Kyle Quincey, signed a two-year, $8.5 million contract on July 1. But Quincey's contract has nothing to do with DeKesyer's negotiations. Quincey was an unrestricted free agent with 418 games of NHL experience, regular season and playoffs. DeKeyser is restricted. They're represented by the same agent, Pat Morris, who hasn't used Quincey's contract as a basis in DeKeyser's talks."

Edited September 11, 2014 by kliq

[kipwinger 8,492]

I think it's interesting that everyone is blaming KH for this deal not being done, but if it were Tatar instead of Dekeyser we'd be inundated with comments about how Tats is an egomaniac who puts himself before the team. Double standard much?

Dekeyser has only played 72 professional hockey games. Whatever he and his agent are asking based on his modest point production and ice time is almost certainly too much. But god forbid anybody call them out, because he's from Michigan.

[gcom007 1,465]

I think it's interesting that everyone is blaming KH for this deal not being done, but if it were Tatar instead of Dekeyser we'd be inundated with comments about how Tats is an egomaniac who puts himself before the team. Double standard much?

Dekeyser has only played 72 professional hockey games. Whatever he and his agent are asking based on his modest point production and ice time is almost certainly too much. But god forbid anybody call them out, because he's from Michigan.

I defended Tatar. Some thought it was too much for him at this point, I said, nah, not at all. Why? For the exact reason you referenced, but the opposite perspective. We did jerk him around a bit, and we were right to be generous to make up for it. There's a big difference between being an egomaniac and knowing that you should and would be in the NHL if you were on any other team in the league. I wouldn't have bitched publicly about it like Tatar did, and I don't like that, but I don't think he was at all unjustified in feeling frustrated, and I'm happy he got a decent contract at this point as I think he is deserving of it.

[gcom007 1,465]

DD and Quincey both have the same agent

Here is a tidbit from the article posted in this thread by BottleOfSmoke which is written by Nsar Khan regarding DD & Quincey.

"His defense partner, Kyle Quincey, signed a two-year, $8.5 million contract on July 1. But Quincey's contract has nothing to do with DeKesyer's negotiations. Quincey was an unrestricted free agent with 418 games of NHL experience, regular season and playoffs. DeKeyser is restricted. They're represented by the same agent, Pat Morris, who hasn't used Quincey's contract as a basis in DeKeyser's talks."

Seriously?

That's the point. What needs to be said when all parties involved know exactly what went down with Quincey? What do you expect people to say in the press? I am well aware of the overlap and the differences in contracts and careers; I read the articles. Bottom line is that a player of less value than Dekeyser got signed for more money than the Wings want to give Dekeyser, and whether Dekeyser feels he deserves as much or not, you can be assured that he's not going to go down easy after seeing that Quincey deal.

I adamantly stand by what I said.

"you have to be an idiot if you think that didn't send a message to Dekeyser's camp, and it was the wrong message to send considering Dekeyser stands to be important to this team for the long-run when Quincey should've been a guy shown the door."

[kliq 3,755]

Seriously?

That's the point. What needs to be said when all parties involved know exactly what went down with Quincey? What do you expect people to say in the press? I am well aware of the overlap and the differences in contracts and careers; I read the articles. Bottom line is that a player of less value than Dekeyser got signed for more money than the Wings want to give Dekeyser, and whether Dekeyser feels he deserves as much or not, you can be assured that he's not going to go down easy after seeing that Quincey deal.

I adamantly stand by what I said.

"you have to be an idiot if you think that didn't send a message to Dekeyser's camp, and it was the wrong message to send considering Dekeyser stands to be important to this team for the long-run when Quincey should've been a guy shown the door."

I cant see an agent giving a GM a hard time by referencing a deal that in fact that particular agent negotiated to begin with. Secondly you are talking RFA vs UFA, two completely different things that I dont have the energy to get into once again.

[Yzerman19 334]

I think this falls right into the problem Wings had the past few years. The kids development program is too good! When they get the try in the NHL some of them are even better than expected then making themselves really important to the team. As most of the time, veterans have multi year contracts, youngsters are forced to stay in the minors, leading then to this kind of conflict when re-signing them.

Quincey should never had those big contracts. One year should have been enough. Maybe KH is just playing with the fear of losing too many players due to injury like last year.

[frankgrimes 1,836]

I think it's interesting that everyone is blaming KH for this deal not being done, but if it were Tatar instead of Dekeyser we'd be inundated with comments about how Tats is an egomaniac who puts himself before the team. Double standard much?

Dekeyser has only played 72 professional hockey games. Whatever he and his agent are asking based on his modest point production and ice time is almost certainly too much. But god forbid anybody call them out, because he's from Michigan.

I was very happy with the deal Tatar got part of it was the way the team handled him at first. Would I've bitched about it publicly? No but other than that his frustration was understandable.

Yes this is an RFA versus UFA situation but in the end everyone knew that this contract would backfire. This isn't a team where UFAs are lining up to play for and now Holland starts to play hardball with the wrong players, this is not good.

My personal believe is he wants Dekeyser to take less in order to bring back Alfie and Dekeyser doesn't bite neither would I. It's not a players job to help out a gm with the cap. I also don't care about his offensive production the job of a defender is to keep the prevent the puck from going into the net. This better gets resolved quickly it else our top pairing will be Kronner and Smith?!

Edited September 11, 2014 by frankgrimes

[gcom007 1,465]

I cant see an agent giving a GM a hard time by referencing a deal that in fact that particular agent negotiated to begin with. Secondly you are talking RFA vs UFA, two completely different things that I dont have the energy to get into once again.

Are you reading what I'm writing?

[Son of a Wing 1,644]

I'm going to laugh and laugh and laugh if Tatar signs a more "team friendly" deal than Dekeyser. Everybody is overly worried about Tatar, but the local guy isn't signed either. What if he's the one with the "ego problem" or whatever else is being suggested about Tatar? People act like Tatar is some kind of bad seed because he's trying to get the best deal he can. But clearly Dekeyser is doing the same thing and everyone is mum.

Truth is, neither are currently signed because their value is really hard to determine. They've both played better than your average rookie but don't have a track record. As such, it's hard for both management, and their agents, to figure out what their proper value is. So it takes time.

Scrolling back through this thread makes me chuckle. How funny would it be if Dekeyser was the one who played hardball and not Tatar. Ya know, after a lot of folks made Tatar out to be some ego maniac who was just biding his time before holding the team over the coals.

I think it's interesting that everyone is blaming KH for this deal not being done, but if it were Tatar instead of Dekeyser we'd be inundated with comments about how Tats is an egomaniac who puts himself before the team. Double standard much?

Dekeyser has only played 72 professional hockey games. Whatever he and his agent are asking based on his modest point production and ice time is almost certainly too much. But god forbid anybody call them out, because he's from Michigan.

We get it Kip...

[DickieDunn 2,571]

RFA players get less.

Dekeyser isn't the #1 young D

Dekeyser isn't a Norris candidate who will make or break the season.

Quincey is not overpaid by much if at all based on the UFA market.

Signing Quincey was not panic or knee jerk.

Edited September 11, 2014 by DickieDunn

[krsmith17 7,191]

Thanks Dickie, finally a logical post in here... I'm a huge fan of DeKeyser and I do believe he is going to be a great defender for us for many years but he is 24 years old and has only played 83 NHL games. He has been very solid ever since his NHL debut in Colorado but one full season in the NHL as an RFA doesn't warrant the same contract as a veteran UFA. How people don't understand this is beyond me. I don't care if the player is better or has more upside, the sample size is just too small. Also, s*** on me all you want but Quincey was one of our most solid defenders in the second half of last season. Like Dickie said, Quincey was not a knee jerk signing and he was not overpaid by much at all.

In saying all that, I still think the deal gets done in the next couple weeks, before training camp. I don't get all the panic and overreaction...