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FireCaptain

Dekeyser signed. 2 yrs $2.187 million AAV

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There is over $5.9M in cap space remaining once Jurco is sent down, more than enough to sign DeKeyser to a reasonable contract as well as Alfredsson to a bonus heavy contract. Both Alfie's and Cleary's bonus' can get bumped to next years salary cap, so that is not an issue. I don't believe that this DeKeyser situation (if you can even call it that) has anything to do with any other player (Quincey, Alfredsson, Cleary, or whichever other player you can think to blame). This is between Holland, DeKeyser and Morris (agent) and a deal will get done, DeKeyser will not miss any games because of this and there will be no bad blood once it is done.

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We get it Kip...

You definitely do. But read over the last three or four pages and you'd be shocked by the number of people blaming KH for this deal not being done. Ya know, cause he's a screw up and Dekeyser is just an honest local boy with a heart of gold.

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There is over $5.9M in cap space remaining once Jurco is sent down, more than enough to sign DeKeyser to a reasonable contract as well as Alfredsson to a bonus heavy contract. Both Alfie's and Cleary's bonus' can get bumped to next years salary cap, so that is not an issue. I don't believe that this DeKeyser situation (if you can even call it that) has anything to do with any other player (Quincey, Alfredsson, Cleary, or whichever other player you can think to blame). This is between Holland, DeKeyser and Morris (agent) and a deal will get done, DeKeyser will not miss any games because of this and there will be no bad blood once it is done.

I think people keep forgetting this. Jurco is included in CG's estimate for the Wings. Who even knows what's going to happen with Alfredsson. At this point, it seems like a deal with bonuses and a lower cap hit is what he'll be offered - 709K is good for about 70% of Alfie's expected cap hit for this season.

I'm still not a fan of the Quincey signing, though. The defensive core feels stagnant. You've got Quincey and Kindl who are, IMO, playing below what you expect out of guys who should be considered seasoned, second pairing defenders. You can make the argument that Smith and DD can still grow and improve over the next season or two, and Kronwall and E are obviously solid. I would much rather have one of the GR kids over Q or Kindl - at least let Ouellet, Sproul, Marchenko and Backman compete to see who'd earn the spot.

Edited by Jesusberg

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Just for the record, Quincey's contract should have no bearing on DeKeyser's contract, as Quincey signed as a UFA and DeKeyser is an RFA. The real sticking point is, as Holland says, finding a good comparable for DeKeyser. He's clearly a very important part of the team, but the book on him at the pro level is so very, very thin. It's an unusual situation. Additionally, Smith is heading into the final year of his first contract and we've got four or five kids looking to make the jump this season - so this contract will set an intra-club precedent that will be referenced in future negotiations. So you really want to get this right.

Personally, I think he gets two or three years at around $3M.

Edited by Dabura

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I think people keep forgetting this. Jurco is included in CG's estimate for the Wings. Who even knows what's going to happen with Alfredsson. At this point, it seems like a deal with bonuses and a lower cap hit is what he'll be offered - 709K is good for about 70% of Alfie's expected cap hit for this season.

I'm still not a fan of the Quincey signing, though. The defensive core feels stagnant. You've got Quincey and Kindl who are, IMO, playing below what you expect out of guys who should be considered seasoned, second pairing defenders. You can make the argument that Smith and DD can still grow and improve over the next season or two, and Kronwall and E are obviously solid. I would much rather have one of the GR kids over Q or Kindl - at least let Ouellet, Sproul, Marchenko and Backman compete to see who'd earn the spot.

Quincey I can almost live with as another desperation move by Holland when he didn't land the UFAs. Q can play decent for long stretches and probably gets more flack overall than he deserves, though that's in great part due to the games where it looks like he forgot how to play hockey.

I just can't believe Kindl is still on this team making $2.4 million for the next three seasons. It's time to cut bait. I've been wrong a lot more than I've been right, but one of the things I definitely was right about was how Kindl vs. Ericsson shook out.

Kindl should no longer be in this lineup at that price. They could either bring up a kid or sign a seasoned vet to play the 5/6 spot with Lashoff and free up some cap space to sign Dekeyser and Smith next year, and Lashoff the year after if he develops into a decent stay at home Dman.

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Quincey I can almost live with as another desperation move by Holland when he didn't land the UFAs. Q can play decent for long stretches and probably gets more flack overall than he deserves, though that's in great part due to the games where it looks like he forgot how to play hockey.

I just can't believe Kindl is still on this team making $2.4 million for the next three seasons. It's time to cut bait. I've been wrong a lot more than I've been right, but one of the things I definitely was right about was how Kindl vs. Ericsson shook out.

Kindl should no longer be in this lineup at that price. They could either bring up a kid or sign a seasoned vet to play the 5/6 spot with Lashoff and free up some cap space to sign Dekeyser and Smith next year, and Lashoff the year after if he develops into a decent stay at home Dman.

Problem is, you're going to pay Kindl one way or another and waiving him only gets you minimal cap relief. It's not a situation like Samuelsson where you waive him and only have to pay for the remainder of the season. In Kindl's case you'd be paying for 3 more years.

Best case scenario you start him on the third pair, and second PP. Hopefully he can produce (initially) at the pace he did a couple years ago and he'll have some trade value. Right now he's got no trade value and he's too expensive to demote.

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I completely agree that Quincey gets way more flack than he deserves on this board. He is a solid defenseman, he is just often times confused with the offensive game he showed in LA and Colorado, which he is not.

I'm not in any way, shape or form trying to defend Kindl. I want him off this roster as much as the next guy but what people tend to forget is that he is still relatively young in terms of Red Wing defenseman standards. He is 27 years old, 3 years younger than Ericsson. Does anyone remember the outrage on this board three years ago when Ericsson signed that new contract? There is still plenty of room for Kindl to grow, I just think he is running out of time. There are plenty of hungry kids that will pass him on the depth chart within the next couple seasons.

Also, I wouldn't say he has NO trade value at this point. I do think his value to other teams may be very minimal, but I do believe he could garner at least a mid to late round draft pick.

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Problem is, you're going to pay Kindl one way or another and waiving him only gets you minimal cap relief. It's not a situation like Samuelsson where you waive him and only have to pay for the remainder of the season. In Kindl's case you'd be paying for 3 more years.

Best case scenario you start him on the third pair, and second PP. Hopefully he can produce (initially) at the pace he did a couple years ago and he'll have some trade value. Right now he's got no trade value and he's too expensive to demote.

Good point. I always forget the cap space rules when you waive a player. And a trade seems unlikely unless he's packaged with a valuable player.

I completely agree that Quincey gets way more flack than he deserves on this board. He is a solid defenseman, he is just often times confused with the offensive game he showed in LA and Colorado, which he is not.

I'm not in any way, shape or form trying to defend Kindl. I want him off this roster as much as the next guy but what people tend to forget is that he is still relatively young in terms of Red Wing defenseman standards. He is 27 years old, 3 years younger than Ericsson. Does anyone remember the outrage on this board three years ago when Ericsson signed that new contract? There is still plenty of room for Kindl to grow, I just think he is running out of time. There are plenty of hungry kids that will pass him on the depth chart within the next couple seasons.

Also, I wouldn't say he has NO trade value at this point. I do think his value to other teams may be very minimal, but I do believe he could garner at least a mid to late round draft pick.

I personally think he's already out of time. With 230 or so NHL games under his belt, I just don't see him improving much. He's been battling for a bottom pairing spot all of his career. With his skill set and size, he should've established himself by now.

It's what makes Kindl so annoying for me. Kindl is as big or bigger than everyone on the Wings except Ericsson and Franzen, but he plays like he's Rafalski sized and will bail on making a play to avoid getting hit.

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Good point. I always forget the cap space rules when you waive a player. And a trade seems unlikely unless he's packaged with a valuable player.

I personally think he's already out of time. With 230 or so NHL games under his belt, I just don't see him improving much. He's been battling for a bottom pairing spot all of his career. With his skill set and size, he should've established himself by now.

It's what makes Kindl so annoying for me. Kindl is as big or bigger than everyone on the Wings except Ericsson and Franzen, but he plays like he's Rafalski sized and will bail on making a play to avoid getting hit.

Did he get absolutely leveled at some point in the NHL? I remember he used to be fiesty and physical in juniors

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Did he get absolutely leveled at some point in the NHL? I remember he used to be fiesty and physical in juniors

That's a good question. I don't follow the juniors at all but that's how I remember people talking about him too.

Though I think his prospect reports may have mentioned he wasn't physical for his size. But I feel like they say that about everyone over 6'2" if they don't put people through the glass on every shift.

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Kindl's issue is he's so inconsistent. My brother went to a lot of GR games his last year there and he said Kindl never looked like he belonged in the AHL. He always looked like he should have been in the ECHL or the NHL and nothing in between. That doesn't work at the top level.

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Kindl's issue is he's so inconsistent. My brother went to a lot of GR games his last year there and he said Kindl never looked like he belonged in the AHL. He always looked like he should have been in the ECHL or the NHL and nothing in between. That doesn't work at the top level.

Exactly. Kindl's A-game is actually pretty solid, as evidenced by his progress during the lockout-shortened season. He played well and it looked like he had finally reached some of that potential. Then Kindl fell off drastically this past season and he's now closer to being a bust again than even a serviceable d-man. I don't know if it is a confidence issue or what, but at age 27 his time is running out.

I personally have seen enough of Kindl and I don't think he's going to figure it out on a consistent basis. At this point, I want to just roll with Marchenko and/or Ouellet instead of Kindl and Lashoff. Those two have gotten more than enough opportunity and the Wings know what they have in them (which isn't a whole lot). The Wings defense is bad. Playing the same six or seven guys again and expecting a different result, besides a leap in Smith's development, seems foolish.

Edited by GoWings1905

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Lashoff is pretty solid for a 7 and still has some room to grow. I'm done with Kindl though.

Agreed. Lashoff has only been in the league for a season and a half.

He's signed for cheap for the next couple seasons, which should be enough time to see if he pains out as a decent bottom pairing guy or not.

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Lashoff is serviceable as a 6th/7th d-men on a team with a weak defense. I like his contract, but other than that he's quite literally a plug.

I'm willing to give Kindl one more chance just because of Ericsson. Everyone around here hated him and said there was no more room left to grow (including me), now look at him.

Lashoff has just never shown streaks of brilliance. Again, I like him as a 6-7 guy, but I don't think that's bringing enough to even worth mentioning. He's not offensively gifted. He's not fast. He's not physical. He plays ok defense. He's like Andersson. pluggy and expendable once his contract runs out.

Kindl I'm willing to roll the dice on one last time, but after this season all faith is gone.

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I was one of the very few that believed Ericsson would become the solid shut down defenseman he is today, but I just don't see it in Kindl. I believe what you see is what you're going to get with him. I still think he can be a solid number 6 / 7 guy and is a decent option in a pinch but he is massively over paid. I don't think many people would have a problem with either Lashoff OR Kindl as our 7th defenseman if they were both on similar 2-3 year 700-800K AAV.

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I'm willing to give Kindl one more year to prove himself. I remember in 2013 when he was paired with DD, he played really well, then last season happened. Hopefully 2013 was more of an indication of what he can do opposed to 2014,

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I was one of the very few that believed Ericsson would become the solid shut down defenseman he is today, but I just don't see it in Kindl. I believe what you see is what you're going to get with him. I still think he can be a solid number 6 / 7 guy and is a decent option in a pinch but he is massively over paid. I don't think many people would have a problem with either Lashoff OR Kindl as our 7th defenseman if they were both on similar 2-3 year 700-800K AAV.

Really? I think Kindl raising his ppg% from last season by just .08 would make him worth his money. Especially if he can play decent D. And especially if he can increase his physicality.

Not saying those are mutually exclusive.

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it makes me laugh how such a big body like Kindl acts like his 5'9 on the ice but again I concure with krsmith I think what you see is what you get with him I too would rather look at kindl and lashoff as are number 7

Kronwall Smith

DD Ericsson

Marchenko Q

Kindl

maybe even Sproul if he is better off in the preseason but again you cant predicted how they would be

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it makes me laugh how such a big body like Kindl acts like his 5'9 on the ice but again I concure with krsmith I think what you see is what you get with him I too would rather look at kindl and lashoff as are number 7

Kronwall Smith

DD Ericsson

Marchenko Q

Kindl

maybe even Sproul if he is better off in the preseason but again you cant predicted how they would be

I agree with u that u can't really predict, but that's also why I'm willing to be open minded about Kindl. Just one PO series ago he was solid for us. I'm not wiling to let last season taint his entire future for us just yet.

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I agree with u that u can't really predict, but that's also why I'm willing to be open minded about Kindl. Just one PO series ago he was solid for us. I'm not wiling to let last season taint his entire future for us just yet.

very true I think that if he shows any signs of repeating last years proformance than he should no doubt be tossed to the woodshed but if he shows a slight upgrade more power to us I think his got massive potential if he uses that big body his got and not act like a puss puss like last season I really like where are future is going D wise and no matter what I think its a win win if we have to cut strings with him in

Edited by sjr2012

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I think management really sent a message to Kindl when they benched him for game 5 vs the Bruins and played Ouellet (who I thought played great).

At this point, I'd really prefer them to roll with one of the kids than have Kindl back there. I get that it takes longer for D to develop, and if we had a much more bonafide top 4, then I think we'd be willing to be a bit more patient. But the fact that our D is this teams weak point, and that we've got 4 promising prospect who might be NHL ready or near to it, means that really we should be making those last two spots an open competition.

And I agree with everyone on Lashoff, except that last year he did step up his physical game. I distinctly remember Ken and Mickey making note of it at one point. But still, he's a serviceable 6-7 at best.

Edited by wings4thecup06

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