Predictions for the DRW 2014-15 Season!

[kliq 3,755]

Until we win a cup again the rebuild hasn't been complete. So people should stop saying it worked cause fact is no one knows if it has or not yet.

Frankly for me its whatever comes first shows if it worked or not. Do we win a cup first or get a top 5 draft pick.

They wings have continued to make the playoffs but haven't been in contention for a cup in awhile. They still have many major holes and lots of kids who need to grow so it'll be a bit yet before we see the direction they're heading lately it's been downward.

They haven’t been favourite for a cup, that’s for sure. But, I'd say losing to the eventual cup champions (Chicago) in the second round, in game 7, in OT can classify you as at least "contending". Just one of those shots on goal slips by Crawford in OT, and Wings are in the final four against L.A.

Again, I am not saying they were a favourite, I’m not saying they were better then Chicago, I’m not saying they should have won, but in 2013 they were definitely in "contention". Nobody else even took Chicago to game 7, let alone game 7 OT. Not Minnesota, not L.A, not even the Bruins.

I think with the Wings winning 4 cups between ’97-’08, some fans have unrealistic expectations. In the post salary cap world, things simply are not going to be the same. Its not the payers faults, managements fault, or ownerships fault, just simply a result of the system in place.

[Dabura 12,206]

Until we win a cup again the rebuild hasn't been complete. So people should stop saying it worked cause fact is no one knows if it has or not yet.

Frankly for me its whatever comes first shows if it worked or not. Do we win a cup first or get a top 5 draft pick.

They wings have continued to make the playoffs but haven't been in contention for a cup in awhile. They still have many major holes and lots of kids who need to grow so it'll be a bit yet before we see the direction they're heading lately it's been downward.

I'm not saying, "The rebuild was a success! Hallelujah!" I'm just saying it's a thing, and it's been going on for probably at least the past three years, and it's still going on, and we should start reaping some benefits this season. And if we don't reap any benefits, and if nothing comes of all this but failure, then we have a serious problem and I'm going to revert to what I normally do, which is piss and moan. Then I'll be right there with you, DeGraa.

I think with the Wings winning 4 cups between ’97-’08, some fans have unrealistic expectations. In the post salary cap world, things simply are not going to be the same. Its not the payers faults, managements fault, or ownerships fault, just simply a result of the system in place.

Right. These past several years have been the first real hiccup in about 20 years. It's the cap and parity catching up to us. The last time we rebuilt, we had carry-over players like Lidstrom and Draper, and we'd managed to find two franchise players in Datsyuk and Zetterberg, and we weren't deep into the cap era. That it'd be harder this time was an inevitability. But I think the worst is actually over, which, if true, means our lowest point in about 15-20 years still saw us making the playoffs. And, like I've noted before, we've had some pretty s*** luck with postseason matchups, drawing two really good Sharks teams that had our number, a Predators team that had our number, a really good Ducks team (which we defeated), an elite Blackhawks team (which we nearly defeated), and an elite Bruins team. Granted, if you finish in seventh or eighth, you're getting what you deserve, which is a team that's superior to yours. But, still, I feel like we've been better than our recent results (mostly the past two seasons) would suggest. That, to me, is encouraging and gives me reason to be at least cautiously optimistic that we're going to see the start of something great in the next couple of seasons and that we could be back to seriously contending as early as 2016-17. Which would be pretty incredible, all things considered.

I really like our prospect pool and the young roster talent. I don't feel we have a Datsyuk or a Lidstrom, but we do have an overall stronger collection of young players than we're used to. Smith, DeKeyser. Nyquist, Tatar, Sheahan. Jurco, Pulkkinen, Mantha, Athanasiou. Marchenko, Ouellet, Sproul, Backman, Jensen. Mrazek. Good things are coming our way, IMHO.

[GMRwings1983 8,793]

My prediction is that we'll be so bad that Dabura, LeftWinger and myself will not have accounts on LGW by the end of the season.

Edited August 6, 2014 by GMRwings1983

[Guest DeGraa55]

They havent been favourite for a cup, thats for sure. But, I'd say losing to the eventual cup champions (Chicago) in the second round, in game 7, in OT can classify you as at least "contending". Just one of those shots on goal slips by Crawford in OT, and Wings are in the final four against L.A.

Again, I am not saying they were a favourite, Im not saying they were better then Chicago, Im not saying they should have won, but in 2013 they were definitely in "contention". Nobody else even took Chicago to game 7, let alone game 7 OT. Not Minnesota, not L.A, not even the Bruins.

I think with the Wings winning 4 cups between 97-08, some fans have unrealistic expectations. In the post salary cap world, things simply are not going to be the same. Its not the payers faults, managements fault, or ownerships fault, just simply a result of the system in place.

I don't think anyone has unrealistic expectations. In the sports world whether it's football hockey or baseball what's the goal? To win championships. That's everyone's goal. It's just not possible to maintain it forever. EVERY team has rebuild and transition periods.

I'm not saying, "The rebuild was a success! Hallelujah!" I'm just saying it's a thing, and it's been going on for probably at least the past three years, and it's still going on, and we should start reaping some benefits this season. And if we don't reap any benefits, and if nothing comes of all this but failure, then we have a serious problem and I'm going to revert to what I normally do, which is piss and moan. Then I'll be right there with you, DeGraa.

Right. These past several years have been the first real hiccup in about 20 years. It's the cap and parity catching up to us. The last time we rebuilt, we had carry-over players like Lidstrom and Draper, and we'd managed to find two franchise players in Datsyuk and Zetterberg, and we weren't deep into the cap era. That it'd be harder this time was an inevitability. But I think the worst is actually over, which, if true, means our lowest point in about 15-20 years still saw us making the playoffs. And, like I've noted before, we've had some pretty s*** luck with postseason matchups, drawing two really good Sharks teams that had our number, a Predators team that had our number, a really good Ducks team (which we defeated), an elite Blackhawks team (which we nearly defeated), and an elite Bruins team. Granted, if you finish in seventh or eighth, you're getting what you deserve, which is a team that's superior to yours. But, still, I feel like we've been better than our recent results (mostly the past two seasons) would suggest. That, to me, is encouraging and gives me reason to be at least cautiously optimistic that we're going to see the start of something great in the next couple of seasons and that we could be back to seriously contending as early as 2016-17. Which would be pretty incredible, all things considered.

I really like our prospect pool and the young roster talent. I don't feel we have a Datsyuk or a Lidstrom, but we do have an overall stronger collection of young players than we're used to. Smith, DeKeyser. Nyquist, Tatar, Sheahan. Jurco, Pulkkinen, Mantha, Athanasiou. Marchenko, Ouellet, Sproul, Backman, Jensen. Mrazek. Good things are coming our way, IMHO.

I agree it's been going on for awhile I just don't think we will see the benefits yet. I think were a few years out before we can truly judge how it went. Once dat is gone and were left with the injury prone Z let's see how the team is doing then.

I also agree that I like the prospect pool as well. But they're prospects who haven't proven anything yet. But based on one season of the couple we've seen they have looked good. Hope it continues!!

[martinezsvsu 240]

due to d and z getting injured all the time the wings have plenty of experience playing without them.

Edited August 6, 2014 by martinezsvsu

[kliq 3,755]

I don't think anyone has unrealistic expectations.

I have to 100% respectfully disagree with you, this is definitely a real thing. Its simply a natural occurrence after winning 4 cups in 11 seasons, and being a contender or even a favourite the other 7.

People (not everyone of course), now have an expectation of the Wings that they need to be a cup contender every year, or management are a bunch of failures. However my original point was that in today's NHL it is unrealistic to think this way. I'm not saying that YOU necessarily think this way, but a large percentage of fans do.

In the sports world whether it's football hockey or baseball what's the goal? To win championships. That's everyone's goal. It's just not possible to maintain it forever. EVERY team has rebuild and transition periods.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I agree it's been going on for awhile I just don't think we will see the benefits yet. I think were a few years out before we can truly judge how it went. Once dat is gone and were left with the injury prone Z let's see how the team is doing then.

I also agree that I like the prospect pool as well. But they're prospects who haven't proven anything yet. But based on one season of the couple we've seen they have looked good. Hope it continues!!

For the most part I agree with you. I believe we will start seeing the results of the rebuild sooner then later, but only time will tell, and of course there are so many different variables that come into play (ie. injuries, coaching changes, etc.).

Edited August 7, 2014 by kliq

[frankgrimes 1,836]

My prediction is that we'll be so bad that Dabura, LeftWinger and myself will not have accounts on LGW by the end of the season.

That's what I love about this site, moderators aren't acting like dictators and other views are allowed.

Personally I'm going into the season as a somewhat evaluation year, I don't expect much but will be very happy if the Wings exceed my expectations. If they suck I will also be very happy, because ...well...hello Connor McDavid and that guy is worth one year of a playoff drought.

btw. The Devils aren't likely to bring Brodeur back so I guess he is Pens bound as Fleury's backup.

[kipwinger 8,492]

I have to 100% respectfully disagree with you, this is definitely a real thing. Its simply a natural occurrence after winning 4 cups in 11 seasons, and being a contender or even a favourite the other 7.

People (not everyone of course), now have an expectation of the Wings that they need to be a cup contender every year, or management are a bunch of failures. However my original point was that in today's NHL it is unrealistic to think this way. I'm not saying that YOU necessarily think this way, but a large percentage of fans do.

For the most part I agree with you. I believe we will start seeing the results of the rebuild sooner then later, but only time will tell, and of course there are so many different variables that come into play (ie. injuries, coaching changes, etc.).

In large part I agree with many of your points, but I do want to say two things.

1. Ken Holland himself, on many occasions, has stated that the Detroit Red Wings organization expects to compete for the Cup every year. If fans have "unrealistic" expectations, it's only because they've listened to (and believed) what management has been telling them.

2. Aside from that, even if it's "unrealistic" to WIN the Cup every year, it's not unrealistic to expect the organization to TRY. Which is really all that most fans want. Nobody really thinks we can win every single year forever. It's a little bit patronizing to talk about fans and their "unrealistic" expectations when all they really expect is that the organization try to compete for championships. That's the whole point of competition after all. To do so requires that management ice the best possible team each year. Many fans (rightly or wrongly) believe that isn't happening.

[kliq 3,755]

In large part I agree with many of your points, but I do want to say two things.

1. Ken Holland himself, on many occasions, has stated that the Detroit Red Wings organization expects to compete for the Cup every year. If fans have "unrealistic" expectations, it's only because they've listened to (and believed) what management has been telling them.

2. Aside from that, even if it's "unrealistic" to WIN the Cup every year, it's not unrealistic to expect the organization to TRY. Which is really all that most fans want. Nobody really thinks we can win every single year forever. It's a little bit patronizing to talk about fans and their "unrealistic" expectations when all they really expect is that the organization try to compete for championships. That's the whole point of competition after all. To do so requires that management ice the best possible team each year. Many fans (rightly or wrongly) believe that isn't happening.

I don’t believe the Wings are not trying, I believe they are not willing to jeopardize their future to win now. They could trade the kids and be better in 2014, but that would hurt their bright future. They could make made a bigger splash in free agency, but then that would require signing someone to a bad contract that would restrict them cap wise down the road, which could result in them losing one of the kids 3 years from now. A few perfect examples of this is Toronto signing David Clarkson, leafs fans got a “big signing” a year ago, but that “big signing” ended up being a dud, and now they have a cap hit of 5.25million until 2021. Washington signed Niskanen to a 7 year deal with a cap hit of 5.75 million, the guy had 1 good year, very very strong possibility this blows up in their face at some point. Even the Suter signing a few years ago by Minnesota, I’m glad Detroit didn’t sign him. Minnesota now has a cap hit of 7,538,462 until 2025. Suter is 29 right now with 11 years left. If he regresses in lets say 3 years, this contract will severely handcuff them for another 8 years!

I’m not saying that you are in any way implying that the Wings should have made any of the above moves, I’m just using those examples to make my point. My point being simply that making a move to make you better “now” is not always what is best move for the franchise as whole. If this was pre-cap and they make a bad UFA signing, all that does is hurt them financially, now a days in can result in you having to lose very good players down the road because you cant fit them under the cap.

[evilmrt 636]

They squeak into the playoffs as a wild card, unless they get bitten by the injury bug. This has been the story for the last couple seasons, so why not this year?

[kipwinger 8,492]

I don’t believe the Wings are not trying, I believe they are not willing to jeopardize their future to win now. They could trade the kids and be better in 2014, but that would hurt their bright future. They could make made a bigger splash in free agency, but then that would require signing someone to a bad contract that would restrict them cap wise down the road, which could result in them losing one of the kids 3 years from now. A few perfect examples of this is Toronto signing David Clarkson, leafs fans got a “big signing” a year ago, but that “big signing” ended up being a dud, and now they have a cap hit of 5.25million until 2021. Washington signed Niskanen to a 7 year deal with a cap hit of 5.75 million, the guy had 1 good year, very very strong possibility this blows up in their face at some point. Even the Suter signing a few years ago by Minnesota, I’m glad Detroit didn’t sign him. Minnesota now has a cap hit of 7,538,462 until 2025. Suter is 29 right now with 11 years left. If he regresses in lets say 3 years, this contract will severely handcuff them for another 8 years!

I’m not saying that you are in any way implying that the Wings should have made any of the above moves, I’m just using those examples to make my point. My point being simply that making a move to make you better “now” is not always what is best move for the franchise as whole. If this was pre-cap and they make a bad UFA signing, all that does is hurt them financially, now a days in can result in you having to lose very good players down the road because you cant fit them under the cap.

Feel free to think what you want, I'm not here to convince you. I'm just here to say that fans expectations aren't "unrealistic" because the organization purportedly has the same expectations.

I'm sick of this whole "Red Wings fans are spoiled with success" argument. You're supposed to want your team to compete for the championship every year. You're also supposed to be bent out of shape when you don't think your team IS competitive. That's what being a fan is all about. Not sitting around casually observing the team and then clapping at the end of the game. Ho hum.

Edited August 7, 2014 by kipwinger

[kliq 3,755]

Feel free to think what you want, I'm not here to convince you. I'm just here to say that fans expectations aren't "unrealistic" because the organization purportedly has the same expectations.

I'm sick of this whole "Red Wings fans are spoiled with success" argument. You're supposed to want your team to compete for the championship every year. You're also supposed to be bent out of shape when you don't think your team IS competitive. That's what being a fan is all about. Not sitting around casually observing the team and then clapping at the end of the game. Ho hum.

I would love it if the Wings now where what they were back in the glory years. I agree with you in that I want the Wings to compete for a championship every year, I get upset when they get eliminated from the playoffs, I also agree with you that this is what being a fan is all about, I also don’t want to casually observe the team and then clap at the end of the game. Ho hum.....I wouldn’t be posting on here, buying season tickets, and watching the games if I didn’t feel that way. I think for the most part we are on the same page.

I guess where we respectfully agree to disagree, is that I believe to build a winner in the NHL nowadays takes much more time than it used to, and I believe because back in the early 2000's all the Wings had to do after a rough patch was make a few signings (ie. Hull, Robitaille etc.), or make a big trade (ie. Hasek, Lang etc.).....that people believe management should be able to do that now. It's simply a different world, and to have those same expectation are unrealistic.

You can’t just go out and sign a bunch of UFA's as that can hurt you long term, and young talent is more important now then it may have ever been with all the long term contract going around now, so you dont want to trade young guys.

Long story short, we want the same thing here......GO WINGS!

[Dabura 12,206]

I guess where we respectfully agree to disagree, is that I believe to build a winner in the NHL nowadays takes much more time than it used to, and I believe because back in the early 2000's all the Wings had to do after a rough patch was make a few signings (ie. Hull, Robitaille etc.), or make a big trade (ie. Hasek, Lang etc.).....that people believe management should be able to do that now. It's simply a different world, and to have those same expectation are unrealistic.

Agreed.

I sort of think of it in terms of marriage and parenthood. The Wings of the 90s and early 2000s were a bachelor who was basically beholden to no one. Then that bachelor got married and became a father. Now he has certain responsibilities. Now every move he makes has to be born of a series of careful considerations. Would he like to spend every weekend with hookers? Maybe. Could he spend every weekend with hookers? Maybe. But, really, he can't. He shouldn't. Because he'd be a bad husband and father. Everything would fall apart.

If it were up to Ken Holland, he'd spend as much of Mike Ilitch's money as he could. Were it up to Ken Holland, he'd trade all his draft picks for all-star acquisitions. Were it up to Ken Holland, there'd be no cap, and we'd have a dynamite team every single season, like back in the 90s and early 2000s. But none of that's doable in the cap era. Every consideration is complex. Every draft pick matters. Realistically, every penny that can be pinched, is pinched. One wrong move can wreck your team - and organization (The All-Important Bottom Line) - for years.

At the end of the day, the Wings were a juggernaut for two straight decades. The cap and our empty prospect cupboards started to catch up with us, and Kenny decided to switch to a retooling plan, the idea being that we tread water for a few years in exchange for another ten years or more of contention. And even then, he's never been fully resigned to simply treading water, because he's gone for Suter, Parise, Edler, Niskanen, et al. I've given him s*** for that for the past couple of years, saying he's a hypocrite and whatnot. But I think all he really wants is to see the Wings win the Cup as soon as possible, same as us. Key thing is, though, he has to be responsible. He has to take a long view of things, has to know when to exercise restraint. He has to do what's best for the club in the long run and in the big picture. I have to give him a lot of credit. Were it me, I'd probably be more like Paul Holmgren, wheeling and dealing but never really getting his team anywhere, and, actually, probably hurting them more than he's helping them.

Edited August 8, 2014 by Dabura

[kliq 3,755]

Agreed.

I sort of think of it in terms of marriage of marriage and parenthood. The Wings of the 90s and early 2000s were a bachelor who was basically beholden to no one. Then that bachelor got married and became a father. Now he has certain responsibilities. Now every move he makes has to be born of a series of careful considerations. Would he like to spend every weekend with hookers? Maybe. Could he spend every weekend with hookers? Maybe. But, really, he can't. He shouldn't. Because he'd be a bad husband and father. Everything wold fall apart.

If it were up to Ken Holland, he'd spend as much of Mike Ilitch's money as he could. Were it up to Ken Holland, he'd trade all his draft picks for all-star acquisitions. Were it up to Ken Holland, there'd be no cap, and we'd have a dynamite team every single season, like back in the 90s and early 2000s. But none of that's doable in the cap era. Every consideration is complex. Every draft pick matters. Realistically, every penny that can be pinched, is pinched. One wrong move can wreck your team - and organization (The All-Important Bottom Line) - for years.

At the end of the day, the Wings were a juggernaut for two straight decades. The cap and our empty prospect cupboards started to catch up with us, and Kenny decided to switch to a retooling plan, the idea being that we tread water for a few years in exchange for another ten years or more of contention. And even then, he's never been fully resigned to simply treading water, because he's gone for Suter, Parise, Edler, Niskanen, et al. I've given him s*** for that for the past couple of years, saying he's a hypocrite and whatnot. But I think all he really wants is to see the Wings win the Cup as soon as possible, same as us. Key thing is, though, he has to be responsible. He has to take a long view of things, has to know when to exercise restraint. He has to do what's best for the club in the long run and in the big picture. I have to give him a lot of credit. Were it me, I'd probably be more like Paul Holmgren, wheeling and dealing but never really getting his team anywhere, and, actually, probably hurting them more than he's helping them.

Completely Agree! I like the analogy.

[PavelValerievichDatsyuk 1,935]

At the end of the day, the Wings were a juggernaut for two straight decades. The cap and our empty prospect cupboards started to catch up with us, and Kenny decided to switch to a retooling plan, the idea being that we tread water for a few years in exchange for another ten years or more of contention. And even then, he's never been fully resigned to simply treading water, because he's gone for Suter, Parise, Edler, Niskanen, et al. I've given him s*** for that for the past couple of years, saying he's a hypocrite and whatnot. But I think all he really wants is to see the Wings win the Cup as soon as possible, same as us. Key thing is, though, he has to be responsible. He has to take a long view of things, has to know when to exercise restraint. He has to do what's best for the club in the long run and in the big picture. I have to give him a lot of credit. Were it me, I'd probably be more like Paul Holmgren, wheeling and dealing but never really getting his team anywhere, and, actually, probably hurting them more than he's helping them.

I agreed with everything you said except the bolded part. I've heard other people say this as well. I don't understand why anyone thinks it's a contradiction to build from the draft and try to sign UFAs. I think this belief is felt by many in the "confused about the direction of this team" thread. But why would they not go after these players? I won't cost draft picks so it doesn't compromise the idea of building from the draft. It's not a rebuild where the team is trying to putting out a bad roster to ensure a high draft pick - They're trying to put out the best possible roster and just keep the draft pick we get and work with those. These UFA signings would take away roster spots from young player (so you can argue against the Cleary, Quincey signings) but a player like Suter, Parise, etc. would be better than almost all prospects now and in the future so they would certainly help the team any way you look at it. Why would Holland be a hypocrite?

[Guest DeGraa55]

How is holland trying to win? Not letting Tatar and nyquist get their chance when they deserve it? Continues to bring back ok broken down players who provide little to nothing.

I personally dot have a problem with rebuilding or go balls in to win. But holland is just sitting on the fence doing a little of both and thats what bothers me most.

[kipwinger 8,492]

I agreed with everything you said except the bolded part. I've heard other people say this as well. I don't understand why anyone thinks it's a contradiction to build from the draft and try to sign UFAs. I think this belief is felt by many in the "confused about the direction of this team" thread. But why would they not go after these players? I won't cost draft picks so it doesn't compromise the idea of building from the draft. It's not a rebuild where the team is trying to putting out a bad roster to ensure a high draft pick - They're trying to put out the best possible roster and just keep the draft pick we get and work with those. These UFA signings would take away roster spots from young player (so you can argue against the Cleary, Quincey signings) but a player like Suter, Parise, etc. would be better than almost all prospects now and in the future so they would certainly help the team any way you look at it. Why would Holland be a hypocrite?

I completely agree, but I'd extend this thought to trades as well. I get so tired of this lame old "the only way to win is draft and develop" bulls***. Elite teams all over the league have a good combination of homegrown talent and guys they brought in from elsewhere. And in almost all those cases they either overpayed via trade or free agency to get those pieces. Yet everyone at LGW acts like if we were to trade a couple of our young players or prospects we'd be mortgaging the future. We wouldn't. Nobody's suggesting we trade ALL our young players.

The obvious goal should be to build from within AND make (intelligent) free agent signings and trades. Don't think it's possible? Take a look at the team who drafted and developed Quick, Brown, Doughty, Toffoli, Voynov, and Martinez AND ALSO traded for or signed Jeff Carter, Mike Richards, Justin Williams, Marian Gaborik, Robyn Regehr, Jarret Stoll, etc.

I can almost hear it now...

LGW: "You can't trade Jack Johnson for Jeff Carter. Johnson's the future. Carter's a locker room cancer and he's not committed to two way play. Babcock will eat him alive".

[number9 3,297]

How is holland trying to win? Not letting Tatar and nyquist get their chance when they deserve it? Continues to bring back ok broken down players who provide little to nothing.

I personally dot have a problem with rebuilding or go balls in to win. But holland is just sitting on the fence doing a little of both and thats what bothers me most.

you're pretty much spot on. I just don't see things as black and white as you do. I look at a team like Philly, who tries to go balls to the wall every year, and I don't like the situation they're in. Then I see a team like the Oilers, who have been trying to rebuild for years and it's not working, and I don't wanna go through that either.

In the non cap era our strength was attracting FA vets who wanted to win... and we did that.

In the cap era our strength is drafting... and were doing that. But that means we're gonna have to be a helluva lot more patient with the results unlike the non cap era.

And I'm fine with that for the time being.

[Son of a Wing 1,644]

I completely agree, but I'd extend this thought to trades as well. I get so tired of this lame old "the only way to win is draft and develop" bulls***. Elite teams all over the league have a good combination of homegrown talent and guys they brought in from elsewhere. And in almost all those cases they either overpayed via trade or free agency to get those pieces. Yet everyone at LGW acts like if we were to trade a couple of our young players or prospects we'd be mortgaging the future. We wouldn't. Nobody's suggesting we trade ALL our young players.

The obvious goal should be to build from within AND make (intelligent) free agent signings and trades. Don't think it's possible? Take a look at the team who drafted and developed Quick, Brown, Doughty, Toffoli, Voynov, and Martinez AND ALSO traded for or signed Jeff Carter, Mike Richards, Justin Williams, Marian Gaborik, Robyn Regehr, Jarret Stoll, etc.

I can almost hear it now...

LGW: "You can't trade Jack Johnson for Jeff Carter. Johnson's the future. Carter's a locker room cancer and he's not committed to two way play. Babcock will eat him alive".

You mean how you act when anyone mentions Tatar being traded? I kid I kid...

[kipwinger 8,492]

you're pretty much spot on. I just don't see things as black and white as you do. I look at a team like Philly, who tries to go balls to the wall every year, and I don't like the situation they're in. Then I see a team like the Oilers, who have been trying to rebuild for years and it's not working, and I don't wanna go through that either.

In the non cap era our strength was attracting FA vets who wanted to win... and we did that.

In the cap era our strength is drafting... and were doing that. But that means we're gonna have to be a helluva lot more patient with the results unlike the non cap era.

And I'm fine with that for the time being.

Lots of team have won in the cap era by doing both of those things intelligently. You're saying you don't want to be black and white but then you're going ahead and being black and white. Philly vs. Edmonton. Philly or the Oilers are not the only models. They're just the two (negative) extremes. Competent management shouldn't be like either Philly or Edmonton.

[number9 3,297]

I completely agree, but I'd extend this thought to trades as well. I get so tired of this lame old "the only way to win is draft and develop" bulls***. Elite teams all over the league have a good combination of homegrown talent and guys they brought in from elsewhere. And in almost all those cases they either overpayed via trade or free agency to get those pieces. Yet everyone at LGW acts like if we were to trade a couple of our young players or prospects we'd be mortgaging the future. We wouldn't. Nobody's suggesting we trade ALL our young players.

The obvious goal should be to build from within AND make (intelligent) free agent signings and trades. Don't think it's possible? Take a look at the team who drafted and developed Quick, Brown, Doughty, Toffoli, Voynov, and Martinez AND ALSO traded for or signed Jeff Carter, Mike Richards, Justin Williams, Marian Gaborik, Robyn Regehr, Jarret Stoll, etc.

I can almost hear it now...

LGW: "You can't trade Jack Johnson for Jeff Carter. Johnson's the future. Carter's a locker room cancer and he's not committed to two way play. Babcock will eat him alive".

You're not wrong, I just don't think we're in the position to make those kind of moves yet. When the young core of this team assumes the helm (Sorry Dats + Z) then I fully expect necessary additions to be mad. And that may very well be within D and Z's career.... I can see us winning the cup with D and Z in lesser roles as old time vets.

The best part of retooling with a young core is having the best in the world to teach them. Ala D and Z.

[kipwinger 8,492]

You mean how you act when anyone mentions Tatar being traded? I kid I kid...

Go look at my posts. I've said 200 times that I don't mind him being traded. I was against trading him for Myers or Green. Trade him in a package for Yandle and I'll smile all the way to opening day.

[number9 3,297]

Lots of team have won in the cap era by doing both of those things intelligently. You're saying you don't want to be black and white but then you're going ahead and being black and white. Philly vs. Edmonton. Philly or the Oilers are not the only models. They're just the two (negative) extremes. Competent management shouldn't be like either Philly or Edmonton.

I agree, but that's what also what I'm saying. I think the Wings are a happy medium. They're focusing on the draft now, and then once theyre future is secure they will do what they need to trade. I dont expect this draft heavy stance to last forever, not when we have a young core.

[kipwinger 8,492]

I agree, but that's what also what I'm saying. I think the Wings are a happy medium. They're focusing on the draft now, and then once theyre future is secure they will do what they need to trade. I dont expect this draft heavy stance to last forever, not when we have a young core.

Their future IS secure. They've got so many NHL ready prospects they can't get them all into the lineup. What does waiting accomplish? Their untouchables are still untouchable and the other guys are so far down the ladder they can't get a shot at the NHL to increase their value. Guys like Pulkkinen and Backman are as valuable as they're ever going to be as AHL players. And they're not going to crack the NHL to increase their value as they're each behind at least two other (better) players. Why couldn't they be traded?

Edited August 8, 2014 by kipwinger

[number9 3,297]

Their future IS secure. They've got so many NHL ready prospects they can't get them all into the lineup. What does waiting accomplish? Their untouchables are still untouchable and the other guys are so far down the ladder they can't get a shot at the NHL to increase their value. Guys like Pulkkinen and Backman are as valuable as they're ever going to be as AHL players. And they're not going to crack the NHL to increase their value as they're each behind at least two other (better) players. Why couldn't they be traded?

Well because I don't think any non-first rounder, sleeper, has any real good value till they play in the NHL.

Hasek went to Buffalo for a 4th rounder and a crappy prospect. Now he was a 10 round pick but I'm sure you get the point I'm trying to make.

It'd be like buying an awesome Tv for 100 dollars when it's really worth 200... then selling it for 50.

EDIT: I think we fans think our future is secure (I do as well) but the Wings have proved to be shrewd over-ripeners who won't believe it till they see it. and again, I'm fine with that.

Edited August 8, 2014 by number9