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Tatar Signs 3 Year Deal $2.75 mill AAV



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#81 dirtydangles

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Posted 29 July 2014 - 08:16 AM

Holy overpayment batman!


Is there a kickstarter campaign for Jakub Kindl to never play another NHL game?


#82 Euro_Twins

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Posted 29 July 2014 - 08:18 AM

ok, ok, no more Diesel... :lol:
 
I said its too much so he better get 20-30 goals to prove he is worth it. If he never gets 20 then its way over payment. Closer to 30 and he is worth it for sure! In the end I am glad he is still a Red Wing! Go Tatar!


So 30 goal scorers make less than $3million? I understand the sentiment but your argument is invalid. If he scores 20 goals he is worth the contract. If he scores 30 he is performing way higher than his contract.

#83 dirtydangles

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Posted 29 July 2014 - 08:25 AM

I'm surprised we couldn't get it done for under 2.5mill. 


Is there a kickstarter campaign for Jakub Kindl to never play another NHL game?


#84 rick zombo

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Posted 29 July 2014 - 08:40 AM

Holy overpayment batman!

 

It's not overpayment enough to call it overpayment.

 

A touch high? Maybe.

 

Fair market value +/-? Absolutely.

 

It's criminal that Holland got Sheahan signed for less than 1M. But he just couldn't get away with low-balling Tatar.


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#85 unsaddleddonald

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Posted 29 July 2014 - 08:57 AM

 

 But he just couldn't get away with low-balling Tatar.

 

After what Holland and Babcock (and Cleary) have put him through? No way they could low ball.

 

I expected him to come in around $2mil, but I'm not shocked he got this deal.



#86 Echolalia

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Posted 29 July 2014 - 09:01 AM

Two things I noticed when I watched that video that Hockeytown posted:
1) Almost all of Tatar's goals came within 6 feet of the net. Tatar may have Hudler's size, but he has Helm's heart.
2) Several of those goals came in the third period, during a tie game or the Wings down by a goal. I wasn't sure whether there was any statistical significance so I rewatched the vid and came up with these numbers:
Tatar scored 4 first period goals, 7 second period goals, and 8 third period goals. This is especially impressive because the Wings only scored 8 third period goals all year (joke). Anyway, of those 8 goals in the third, the Wings were down or tied in 6 of those occasions (more specifically meaning his goal either tied the game or put the Wings in the lead. The one exception was when the Wings were down 3-1 to the Habs, when Tatar scored to make it 3-2. Then again to make it 3-3. I originally wasnt going to include the first goal, but because he scored the second one to tie it as well I decided to keep it in.) I didn't do any actual statistical analyses so take what you want from these values, but at the very least there may to be a trend that this kid gets better as the game progresses. I don't know how to statistically analyze "clutchness", or more specifically what the actual definition of clutch is. Scoring anytime in the third? Last 10 minutes? Down by 1? By 2? Anyway, someone with a better grasp of stats and clutchness can tackle this one.

Edited by Echolalia, 29 July 2014 - 09:09 AM.


#87 rick zombo

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Posted 29 July 2014 - 09:12 AM

Two things I noticed when I watched that video that Hockeytown posted:
1) Almost all of Tatar's goals came within 6 feet of the net. Tatar may have Hudler's size, but he has Helm's heart.
2) Several of those goals came in the third period, during a tie game or the Wings down by a goal. I wasn't sure whether there was any statistical significance so I rewatched the vid and came up with these numbers:
Tatar scored 4 first period goals, 7 second period goals, and 8 third period goals. This is especially impressive because the Wings only scored 8 third period goals all year (joke). Anyway, of those 8 goals in the third, the Wings were down or tied in 6 of those occasions (more specifically meaning his goal either tied the game or put the Wings in the lead. The one exception was when the Wings were down 3-1 to the Habs, when Tatar scored to make it 3-2. Then again to make it 3-3. I originally wasnt going to include the first goal, but because he scored the second one to tie it as well I decided to keep it in.) I didn't do any actual statistical analyses so take what you want from these values, but at the very least there may to be a trend that this kid gets better as the game progresses. I don't know how to statistically analyze "clutchness", or more specifically what the actual definition of clutch is. Scoring anytime in the third? Last 10 minutes? Down by 1? By 2? Anyway, someone with a better grasp of stats and clutchness can tackle this one.

 

Haven't you heard? Manny Legace's father-in-law told Leftwinger that Helm has no heart. :lol: If you feel differently, prepare to have your "love bubble" burst.

 

See: the current LGWs "prediction" thread.

 

Back on topic: I've seen some fancy Corsi charts that show Tatar's positive effects on his linemates and also data that supports the claim that he's a "possession monter".

 

The big thing for me will be whether or not he goes the Datsyuk/Zetterberg route of working his sack off to get bigger and stronger. If he can do this, and learn how to play against other teams top D,  I think he's got a mitt full of 25-30 goal seasons in his future.


Edited by rick zombo, 29 July 2014 - 09:16 AM.

"In Detroit, every day is a good day to win"

#88 Echolalia

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Posted 29 July 2014 - 09:14 AM

 
Haven't you heard? Manny Legace's father-in-law told Leftwinger that Helm has no heart. :lol: If you feel differently, prepare to have your "love bubble" burst.
 
See: the current LGWs "prediction" thread.

The only think Leftwinger can burst is my blood vessel from laughing too hard.

Just kidding Lefty I love you.


But seriously. Lol.

But really seriously: keep the info coming from the sources.

Edited by Echolalia, 29 July 2014 - 09:17 AM.


#89 LeftWinger

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Posted 29 July 2014 - 09:33 AM

but seriously, the definition of clutch is Johan Franzen. He does, afterall, lead the team in GWG all the time.

 

FWIW, Chris didn't tell me anything about Helm. I was just using him as an example that people know people and its not out if the realm for a common fan to know someone in the NHL on a personal level.


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#90 DickieDunn

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Posted 29 July 2014 - 09:57 AM

I still see him topping out as a one dimensional scoring line winger putting up around 60 points a year instead of the next star player, but the contract is still pretty solid.

Oh this young man has had a very trying rookie season, with the litigation, the notoriety, his subsequent deportation to Canada and that country's refusal to accept him, well, I guess that's more than most 21-year-olds can handle... Ogie Ogilthorpe!


#91 Spongewingredpants

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Posted 29 July 2014 - 10:31 AM

this always cracks me up:

 

"as per club policy, terms of the deal are not revealed"

 

2 hours later you read them on 15 websites....and this one


My wish: A healthy roster

 

 


#92 kipwinger

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Posted 29 July 2014 - 11:10 AM

I still see him topping out as a one dimensional scoring line winger putting up around 60 points a year instead of the next star player, but the contract is still pretty solid.

 

Maybe that's all he'll ever be...but that doesn't preclude him from being a star player.  Lots of star players have been one dimensional scoring line wingers.  Like Brett Hull.  Or Marian Gaborik.  Or Theo Fleury. 

 

Not exactly known for their two-way play, but stars none the less. 

 

I guess the point of contention would be whether he only ever tops out at 60 pts.  I think you'd agree he's got the offensive tools to score as much as his situation will allow.  To me his production potential would largely depend on the situation he finds himself in and not on his "ceiling".  Put him on the second line of a team with a dominant first line, and let him take advantage of mismatches and I could see him up in the 70+ pts. range.  For example:  If Mantha were drawing the hard coverage in a few years, I don't see why Tatar couldn't excel against lesser competition. 


GMRwings:  "Well, in other civilized countries, 16 years old isn't considered underage.  For instance, I believe the age of consent is 16 in Canada.  There's some US states where it's 16 as well.  

 

Get off the high horse.  Not like she was 10."

 

"Some girls are 17 even though they look 25."

 

 


#93 GMRwings1983

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Posted 29 July 2014 - 11:16 AM

but seriously, the definition of clutch is Johan Franzen. He does, afterall, lead the team in GWG all the time.

 

FWIW, Chris didn't tell me anything about Helm. I was just using him as an example that people know people and its not out if the realm for a common fan to know someone in the NHL on a personal level.

 

Well, he does have a higher playoff PPG than your boy Hossa.   ;)

 

 

Also, tell Manny Legace's father in law that we're still waiting for the hanging.  


Edited by GMRwings1983, 29 July 2014 - 11:17 AM.

According to my profile, my reputation is excellent. LOL.

#94 rick zombo

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Posted 29 July 2014 - 11:43 AM

 

Well, he does have a higher playoff PPG than your boy Hossa.   ;)

 

 

Also, tell Manny Legace's father in law that we're still waiting for the hanging.  

 

:shock:


"In Detroit, every day is a good day to win"

#95 amato

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Posted 29 July 2014 - 12:58 PM

 

Each time he scores a hat trick, free "Tatar" tots for everyone at the JLA.  

 

:w00t:  source? 


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#96 dat's sick

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Posted 29 July 2014 - 01:23 PM

I still see him topping out as a one dimensional scoring line winger putting up around 60 points a year instead of the next star player, but the contract is still pretty solid.

Just because he'll never be a Selke nominee doesn't mean he's one-dimensional. He has plenty of tools offensively. He can challenge 1-on-1, or even 1-on-2, he can snipe, and he's also not afraid to drive the net and create those "ugly" goals. A lot of people compare him to Hudler who imo is much more of a 'one-dimensional scoring line winger' than Tatar is or ever will be. Tats is a perfect secondary scorer, he creates a ton of offense on his own instead of relying on linemates or powerplay time. And if he just improves on a few things here and there he could definitely become a star player in this league. 



#97 kipwinger

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Posted 29 July 2014 - 01:45 PM

Also, I think this "he doesn't play defense" criticism of Tatar is a bit off base.  I don't think he's fantastic defensively, but he does try.  It's not like Brunner was a year ago.  Tatar was always a two way player in the AHL, and he backchecks every shift now.  He just isn't strong enough to do much once he gets back.  I just think it'll take a little time to find his defensive niche in the NHL.  Just like Dats had to do.  He wasn't a defensive superstar when he was 185 lbs either.  That's just too small to do much in the NHL.  Let Tatar get stronger and he'll be fine. 


GMRwings:  "Well, in other civilized countries, 16 years old isn't considered underage.  For instance, I believe the age of consent is 16 in Canada.  There's some US states where it's 16 as well.  

 

Get off the high horse.  Not like she was 10."

 

"Some girls are 17 even though they look 25."

 

 


#98 evilmrt

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Posted 29 July 2014 - 02:30 PM

This is an ok deal by Holland. I would have preferred a slightly lower payment, or even better (and more realistic), locking him in for 5 years. 

 

But no, KH is going to write up this contract to expire at the exact time RFA rights expire. OK  :lol:



#99 StormJH1

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Posted 29 July 2014 - 02:35 PM

 

Well, he does have a higher playoff PPG than your boy Hossa.   ;)

 

 

Also, tell Manny Legace's father in law that we're still waiting for the hanging.  

 

The Marian Hossa who almost single-handedly blocked us from the '08 Cup for a few games while Sidney Crosby's face was being printed on a milk carton?  

 

The Marian Hossa who carried Detroit through the 08-09 regular season, and then managed 6 G and 9 A in the '09 Playoffs with his shoulder torn off?  While an also-injured Pavel Datsyuk scored one goal in 16 games in those same '09 Playoffs?  

Oh.

 

The "clutch" thing is basically impossible to gauge because even the best NHL scorers aren't going to score a goal in most of the games they play.  Franzen's 13 goals in 16 playoff games in 2008 (and great 2009 performance) are what got him paid.  Still, anyone who's watched him mope around the ice for long stretches at a time would laugh if you called him clutch.

 

Tatar is a good offensive hockey player.  I can't say we're a perennial threat in the playoffs 3 years from now if Nyquist and Tatar are our two best players.  Mantha and Nyquist, maybe.  But I still view Tatar as a bit of a lottery ticket, and not that expensive of one at 2.75 milion AAV



#100 nawein

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Posted 29 July 2014 - 02:36 PM

This is an ok deal by Holland. I would have preferred a slightly lower payment, or even better (and more realistic), locking him in for 5 years. 
 
But no, KH is going to write up this contract to expire at the exact time RFA rights expire. OK  :lol:


He has 1 year of RFA after this contract. Which couldn't be better honestly.





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