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Holland signs 4 year extension with wings **MOD Warning Post 130**

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"Tanking" implies losing on purpose. Whether it's players underperforming, coaches using the wrong players or strategies, or management making moves to make the team worse, it's done with the intent of finishing lower in the standings and getting a higher draft pick. Draft lotteries were invented to reduce the chances of this strategy working. It was done more often in other sports, where high draft picks almost always become impact players right away. The Indianapolis Colts' "Suck for Luck" season is one of the most recent examples.

The Red Wings did not tank to get Steve Yzerman, and there are two obvious reasons why: 1, the Wings had been terrible for almost two decades, making the playoffs twice in 17 years and only winning one series. They didn't lose on purpose in "82-'83, they just couldn't win. 2, the Wings were heavily targeting local product Pat LaFontaine with the #4 pick, but he went #3 to the Islanders. Yzerman was the consolation prize.


They didn't tank. They tried but went through a drought anyway. The whole notion of tanking is mostly a cap era phenomenon anyway. Therefore it's arrogant of you to just assume the Wings tanked the team in order to get a guy like Yzerman when you weren't even there. Because that's not what happened, and Stevie, even though he's heralded as such, was not the savior of this organization. He very well could have been the first coming of John Tavares had Wings not played their cards almost perfectly.

In regards to your above statements. Hindsight is 20/20. Just because we didn't win a cup those years doesn't mean the wings couldn't have. And the organization as well as most of us believed, and still do believe, they had a fair shot. Playing older vets kept younger players, like Nyquist, in the minors to build their confidence and develop their game better than they would being rushed into the NHL. Since vets, like you said, got essentially the same points that a rookie would have, there was more good done than harm.

I'm glad you're well-rounded in most sports. It means you obviously know that most hockey players aren't normally ready until 24, 26, or sometimes even 27, unlike most American sports where the ready-age is between 18 and 22. This organization is going to continue sheltering prospects as best they can until they hit those years despite anyone's impatient clamoring. Aside from the rare few who can truly squeak in at an earlier age.

Also, Wings players have routinely expressed their pleasure with Ken always putting together a veteran team.

Tanking has been around for much longer than salary caps. I think it's tougher to do today, between the cap and roster/player movement limitations.

Also, I think your "ready age" numbers are considerably off. http://www.sbnation.com/nhl/2014/3/13/5500522/nhl-scoring-stats-rates-age-analysis

Edited by joshy207

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"Tanking" implies losing on purpose. Whether it's players underperforming, coaches using the wrong players or strategies, or management making moves to make the team worse, it's done with the intent of finishing lower in the standings and getting a higher draft pick. Draft lotteries were invented to reduce the chances of this strategy working. It was done more often in other sports, where high draft picks almost always become impact players right away. The Indianapolis Colts' "Suck for Luck" season is one of the most recent examples.

The Red Wings did not tank to get Steve Yzerman, and there are two obvious reasons why: 1, the Wings had been terrible for almost two decades, making the playoffs twice in 17 years and only winning one series. They didn't lose on purpose in "82-'83, they just couldn't win. 2, the Wings were heavily targeting local product Pat LaFontaine with the #4 pick, but he went #3 to the Islanders. Yzerman was the consolation prize.

Tanking has been around for much longer than salary caps. I think it's tougher to do today, between the cap and roster/player movement limitations.

Also, I think your "ready age" numbers are considerably off. http://www.sbnation.com/nhl/2014/3/13/5500522/nhl-scoring-stats-rates-age-analysis

That article seems to conclude most forwards peak around 24, which is precisely the one of the ages I cited. How is that considerably off at all? The article states that 21-22 forwards show good production in the NHL, but don't get played because their defense is under-developed, aka they aren't ready.

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That article seems to conclude most forwards peak around 24, which is precisely the one of the ages I cited. How is that considerably off at all? The article states that 21-22 forwards show good production in the NHL, but don't get played because their defense is under-developed, aka they aren't ready.

Being NHL-ready and peaking are not at all the same.

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Being NHL-ready and peaking are not at all the same.

I agree. Let me revise my opinion.

I don't think that just bc a player is ready and can or could play means he should. Playing them later, closer to their peak, is better for their all-around long-term development. Hence why I'm equating readiness with peak age.

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Guest DeGraa55

"Tanking" implies losing on purpose. Whether it's players underperforming, coaches using the wrong players or strategies, or management making moves to make the team worse, it's done with the intent of finishing lower in the standings and getting a higher draft pick. Draft lotteries were invented to reduce the chances of this strategy working. It was done more often in other sports, where high draft picks almost always become impact players right away. The Indianapolis Colts' "Suck for Luck" season is one of the most recent examples.

The Red Wings did not tank to get Steve Yzerman, and there are two obvious reasons why: 1, the Wings had been terrible for almost two decades, making the playoffs twice in 17 years and only winning one series. They didn't lose on purpose in "82-'83, they just couldn't win. 2, the Wings were heavily targeting local product Pat LaFontaine with the #4 pick, but he went #3 to the Islanders. Yzerman was the consolation prize.

Tanking has been around for much longer than salary caps. I think it's tougher to do today, between the cap and roster/player movement limitations.

Also, I think your "ready age" numbers are considerably off. http://www.sbnation.com/nhl/2014/3/13/5500522/nhl-scoring-stats-rates-age-analysis

So the colts losing the sexond best qb in football to injury had nothing to do with why they were bad. Teams have rebuilds like buffalo but even if they're bad I wouldn't consider it tanking. No coach or players would ever intentionally lose.

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So the colts losing the sexond best qb in football to injury had nothing to do with why they were bad. Teams have rebuilds like buffalo but even if they're bad I wouldn't consider it tanking. No coach or players would ever intentionally lose.

The Colts losing Manning was the major reason they were bad. They also knew being a bad team would give them the chance to draft Luck. I'm not saying they did blow games, but a good chunk of their fans certainly had no problem with the idea.

You don't think players or coaches have never intentionally lost or done something else under the table? Nobody has ever shaved points, fixed games, etc? That has happened. It probably happens more often than we will ever know about. And I'm certain some front offices have urged coaches to not put forth the best product a time or two.

I agree. Let me revise my opinion.

I don't think that just bc a player is ready and can or could play means he should. Playing them later, closer to their peak, is better for their all-around long-term development. Hence why I'm equating readiness with peak age.

That makes more sense. I feel a little differently... depending on the player, keeping him in the minors longer can hinder his progress. Some players need the challenge of the higher level to continue to develop their game. The trick is figuring out which players those are.

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The Colts losing Manning was the major reason they were bad. They also knew being a bad team would give them the chance to draft Luck. I'm not saying they did blow games, but a good chunk of their fans certainly had no problem with the idea.

You don't think players or coaches have never intentionally lost or done something else under the table? Nobody has ever shaved points, fixed games, etc? That has happened. It probably happens more often than we will ever know about. And I'm certain some front offices have urged coaches to not put forth the best product a time or two.

That makes more sense. I feel a little differently... depending on the player, keeping him in the minors longer can hinder his progress. Some players need the challenge of the higher level to continue to develop their game. The trick is figuring out which players those are.

Right. There are exceptions to the rule. Like Mantha. I think LGW collectively expects him to be ready next season if not this one. He'll be a fresh 21 then.

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Guest DeGraa55

The Colts losing Manning was the major reason they were bad. They also knew being a bad team would give them the chance to draft Luck. I'm not saying they did blow games, but a good chunk of their fans certainly had no problem with the idea.

You don't think players or coaches have never intentionally lost or done something else under the table? Nobody has ever shaved points, fixed games, etc? That has happened. It probably happens more often than we will ever know about. And I'm certain some front offices have urged coaches to not put forth the best product a time or two.

That makes more sense. I feel a little differently... depending on the player, keeping him in the minors longer can hinder his progress. Some players need the challenge of the higher level to continue to develop their game. The trick is figuring out which players those are.

Shaving points is different. But I do believe that no player or coach would intentionally lose just so they could draft a certain player.

Now teams rebuilding is rebuilding. Trading away expensive players to save money and allow the kids to play can be seen as tanking but to

Me that's just the proper way to rebuild.

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Shaving points is different. But I do believe that no player or coach would intentionally lose just so they could draft a certain player.

Now teams rebuilding is rebuilding. Trading away expensive players to save money and allow the kids to play can be seen as tanking but to

Me that's just the proper way to rebuild.

That's not at all why teams tank. I live in Buffalo and Pegula has a ton of money, and he is pretty dedicated to making the Sabres a wining team. He's not trading away guys like Miller or Vanek or Ott to save money, he has more than enough, enough to buy the BIlls on top of the Sabres.. He's not happy with guys like Grigorenko playing young and early. The organization wishes they had other player to force him down, as his transition from the QMJHL to the NHL has not gone well. The only young player they have thrust into the league early that has excelled is Zemgod, more commonly referred to as Zemgus Girgensons. He's trading away guys like Vanek and Miller so that they can continue their illustrious careers in a better place than were Buffalo currently is, and also because IT'S GONNA GET HIM MCDAVID. It has zero to do with dollars spent and kids playing. Most buffalo kids are farrrrrr from ready.

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Guest DeGraa55

That's not at all why teams tank. I live in Buffalo and Pegula has a ton of money, and he is pretty dedicated to making the Sabres a wining team. He's not trading away guys like Miller or Vanek or Ott to save money, he has more than enough, enough to buy the BIlls on top of the Sabres.. He's not happy with guys like Grigorenko playing young and early. The organization wishes they had other player to force him down, as his transition from the QMJHL to the NHL has not gone well. The only young player they have thrust into the league early that has excelled is Zemgod, more commonly referred to as Zemgus Girgensons. He's trading away guys like Vanek and Miller so that they can continue their illustrious careers in a better place than were Buffalo currently is, and also because IT'S GONNA GET HIM MCDAVID. It has zero to do with dollars spent and kids playing. Most buffalo kids are farrrrrr from ready.

Well there's many reasons why older expensive players are traded away I only listed two. And there's no sure thing. There's multiple teams in on for mcdavid.

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Good move.

I'm still not really sure what Holland could have done since 2009 to make things any better. We're rebuilding through the draft. With the Cap, and how over inflated the UFA market is, it's the way to go. We haven't missed out on a thing by not signing guys like Ehrhoff, Clarkson, and Wisniewski, or Suter or Parise to 13 years.

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Although I have not liked some of Hollands moves or non-moves over the years, some I can never ever let go of (Hossa), I think the track record over all speaks for itself. He is a pioneer IMO. Its been said numerous times before but we are frikkin spoiled. Completely spoiled rotten! We are lucky to have Holland, we are lucky to have Babcock, Extremely lucky to be owned by the Illitches, and we are lucky to have seen 23 straight years of playoffs (no matter how crappy the last few have been). There are plenty of team out there that would be thrilled to see their team make the post season and be BBQ'd in the first round just to see their team in a meaningful game. NONE of this happens without Holland! This team has lost some big time players in the past few years whose impact could never be measured in advance, we've lost how many man games to injuries?, Had how many rookie's? AND had quite a few crap roster moves/non-moves and yet 23 years and counting, a stocked cupboard of young talent and an extremely bright future that will NOT take us blowing balls at the bottom of the league for 5 years before we can start to bubble back to the top!!!! Holland is in uncharted waters and we will see how stealthy he is. Next up is to lock down Babs and DK, and he will locked them both for a good amount of time and watch as we begin to mature and compete again wityhout having to eat crap at the bottom for a while! Thanks Kenny! Fans need to realize that the days of Red WIngs sailing through to championships is long over and the next generation of Cup Champions in Detroit will be honed from within, won't dominate as before but will cut more evenly with 4 lines.

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So the colts losing the sexond best qb in football to injury had nothing to do with why they were bad. Teams have rebuilds like buffalo but even if they're bad I wouldn't consider it tanking. No coach or players would ever intentionally lose.

I'm with you... I don't think any NHL or NFL team purposely TANKS anything. A whole organization intentionally tanking is like a whole organization all unanimously saying I suck and am completely incompetant so please fire me. No way that happens, I will never believe it.

Who ever mentioned the Suck for Luck campaign obviously knows zero about the Colts and Manning. That entire team was built around Manning, who is not the second best QB in the league but THE best, and losing him was something like what we saw when we lost Lidstrom. NO ONE in the league could have jumped in to fill in for Manning NO ONE. There was no one capable of doing what Manning does. That Colts team also was dealing with alot of other injuries as well... they didn't suck for Luck they just plain sucked! Just like no one in the NHL could ever step in for Lidstrom and losing him devastated our team more then we will ever know.

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Players and coaches won't intentionally lose but management can and does dump players to make it more likely they will get a high puck.

It's dangerous though. You never know when that cant miss player ends up like Stuart Cleary or Staal, good players but but worth their draft positions.

Edited by DickieDunn

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Good move.

I'm still not really sure what Holland could have done since 2009 to make things any better. We're rebuilding through the draft. With the Cap, and how over inflated the UFA market is, it's the way to go. We haven't missed out on a thing by not signing guys like Ehrhoff, Clarkson, and Wisniewski, or Suter or Parise to 13 years.

But the Wings tried to sign many of those guys. Are you implying that the "Good move" was to sign an inept GM who cannot sign the players he targets? Makes no sense.

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I'd recommend everyone watching the TSN story about the Pens and Lemieux some of the stuff basically admitted that they were trying to lose. Sure players would never want to lose but the front office especially GM and coach can put players into impossible situations. Like TSN mentioned playing the 3 pairing on the PK, or let the fourth line play the PK stuff like that.

Funny, how emotionally invested some posters seem to be in a Ken Holland. Yes he has done great things but after losing Yzerman, Nill he really seems to struggle and there is debate about that because the results are there since 2009. It is impossible to rebuild a team via draft or solely via UFA, the mixture needs to be there. With Pasha continuing to slow down I really hope the front office isn't banking on finding another Pasha outside of the top 3 in 2015. I don't care how many excuses people want to make the point is, he now has 4 years to change the UFA perception of this team and to lay down a plan. The current strategy of barely staying over the water won't entice players to sign here, as the core continues to age and the question marks continue to rise. Wheter some fans like to admit it or not but that's exactly how top guys are viewing this team right now.

Sometimes a step back can mean 2 steps forward in the long run, so I would have been much more happy with seeing the young guys getting a chance, create cap space and go for a top pick in one of the best drafts since 2006. Also I'm sick of Holland's if you make the playoffs everything can happen, yeah everything can happen if you are stacked as the LA Kings in most cases you are going to face the Big Bad Bear or the high powered offense of Pittsburgh = first round exit again and a worse draft pick. This is a team which needs a make over in terms of playstyle and soon on key position, you simple can't do that by drafting alone, we won't have the luck of getting a Z, Pasha or - dream on - Lidström again because every team has improved their worldwide scouting and finding gems has become harder and harder.

Shero brought the Pens a cup, a cup final experience, an ECF << more success than Holland and Lemieux decided to fire him because the expectations are sky high in Pittsburgh. The Wings lost out on top UFAs, the team became stale, complacent, UFAs shying away and hasn't even flirted with a third round since 2009 and yet Holland gets a 4 year extension. This just doesn't feel right for me.

I have nothing against Holland, he has done a lot of great things but I personally believe he has lost his inner fire to guide this team through some rough rough years and maybe the game has evolved too much for his ideas. Hopefully we can hire Shero as an assistant and if things go south have him taking over.

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I'd recommend everyone watching the TSN story about the Pens and Lemieux some of the stuff basically admitted that they were trying to lose. Sure players would never want to lose but the front office especially GM and coach can put players into impossible situations. Like TSN mentioned playing the 3 pairing on the PK, or let the fourth line play the PK stuff like that.

Funny, how emotionally invested some posters seem to be in a Ken Holland. Yes he has done great things but after losing Yzerman, Nill he really seems to struggle and there is debate about that because the results are there since 2009. It is impossible to rebuild a team via draft or solely via UFA, the mixture needs to be there. With Pasha continuing to slow down I really hope the front office isn't banking on finding another Pasha outside of the top 3 in 2015. I don't care how many excuses people want to make the point is, he now has 4 years to change the UFA perception of this team and to lay down a plan. The current strategy of barely staying over the water won't entice players to sign here, as the core continues to age and the question marks continue to rise. Wheter some fans like to admit it or not but that's exactly how top guys are viewing this team right now.

Sometimes a step back can mean 2 steps forward in the long run, so I would have been much more happy with seeing the young guys getting a chance, create cap space and go for a top pick in one of the best drafts since 2006. Also I'm sick of Holland's if you make the playoffs everything can happen, yeah everything can happen if you are stacked as the LA Kings in most cases you are going to face the Big Bad Bear or the high powered offense of Pittsburgh = first round exit again and a worse draft pick. This is a team which needs a make over in terms of playstyle and soon on key position, you simple can't do that by drafting alone, we won't have the luck of getting a Z, Pasha or - dream on - Lidström again because every team has improved their worldwide scouting and finding gems has become harder and harder.

Shero brought the Pens a cup, a cup final experience, an ECF << more success than Holland and Lemieux decided to fire him because the expectations are sky high in Pittsburgh. The Wings lost out on top UFAs, the team became stale, complacent, UFAs shying away and hasn't even flirted with a third round since 2009 and yet Holland gets a 4 year extension. This just doesn't feel right for me.

I have nothing against Holland, he has done a lot of great things but I personally believe he has lost his inner fire to guide this team through some rough rough years and maybe the game has evolved too much for his ideas. Hopefully we can hire Shero as an assistant and if things go south have him taking over.

Not sure what you're getting at here Frank with the first paragraph, but I'd be ashamed if I was a Penguins fan. And as a Wings fan I don't think I could ever condone that organizational strategy. The Peguins tanked on purpose for about 5 years, couldn't half-fill a rink to save their lives and were 99% on the move to Kansas City. Anaheim were the statistcal favourite to win the Crosby lottery but Pittsburgh got lucky. On top of all that, after being handed soooo much, they have one cup. They are a "win now" team that isn't winning. Not even close. No wonder Shero got fired.

The Wings organizition and Holland still have high standards but they're not at the same stage from a franchize/legacy standpoint as the pens are.

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I'd recommend everyone watching the TSN story about the Pens and Lemieux some of the stuff basically admitted that they were trying to lose. Sure players would never want to lose but the front office especially GM and coach can put players into impossible situations. Like TSN mentioned playing the 3 pairing on the PK, or let the fourth line play the PK stuff like that.

Funny, how emotionally invested some posters seem to be in a Ken Holland. Yes he has done great things but after losing Yzerman, Nill he really seems to struggle and there is debate about that because the results are there since 2009. It is impossible to rebuild a team via draft or solely via UFA, the mixture needs to be there. With Pasha continuing to slow down I really hope the front office isn't banking on finding another Pasha outside of the top 3 in 2015. I don't care how many excuses people want to make the point is, he now has 4 years to change the UFA perception of this team and to lay down a plan. The current strategy of barely staying over the water won't entice players to sign here, as the core continues to age and the question marks continue to rise. Wheter some fans like to admit it or not but that's exactly how top guys are viewing this team right now.

Sometimes a step back can mean 2 steps forward in the long run, so I would have been much more happy with seeing the young guys getting a chance, create cap space and go for a top pick in one of the best drafts since 2006. Also I'm sick of Holland's if you make the playoffs everything can happen, yeah everything can happen if you are stacked as the LA Kings in most cases you are going to face the Big Bad Bear or the high powered offense of Pittsburgh = first round exit again and a worse draft pick. This is a team which needs a make over in terms of playstyle and soon on key position, you simple can't do that by drafting alone, we won't have the luck of getting a Z, Pasha or - dream on - Lidström again because every team has improved their worldwide scouting and finding gems has become harder and harder.

Shero brought the Pens a cup, a cup final experience, an ECF << more success than Holland and Lemieux decided to fire him because the expectations are sky high in Pittsburgh. The Wings lost out on top UFAs, the team became stale, complacent, UFAs shying away and hasn't even flirted with a third round since 2009 and yet Holland gets a 4 year extension. This just doesn't feel right for me.

I have nothing against Holland, he has done a lot of great things but I personally believe he has lost his inner fire to guide this team through some rough rough years and maybe the game has evolved too much for his ideas. Hopefully we can hire Shero as an assistant and if things go south have him taking over.

I'll pass on the Pens sloppy seconds

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Not sure what you're getting at here Frank with the first paragraph, but I'd be ashamed if I was a Penguins fan. And as a Wings fan I don't think I could ever condone that organizational strategy. The Peguins tanked on purpose for about 5 years, couldn't half-fill a rink to save their lives and were 99% on the move to Kansas City. Anaheim were the statistcal favourite to win the Crosby lottery but Pittsburgh got lucky. On top of all that, after being handed soooo much, they have one cup. They are a "win now" team that isn't winning. Not even close. No wonder Shero got fired.

The Wings organizition and Holland still have high standards but they're not at the same stage from a franchize/legacy standpoint as the pens are.

Here is the link http://www.tsn.ca/bardown/Story.aspx?TSN+Original%3A+Playing+To+Lose&id=455356

Some of them rephrase it as "what was best for the team back then" but yeah their GM wanted to get Lemieux more than anything and given the circumstances most would have done the same thing. The guy basically saved their franchise. They

Personally I wouldn't have a problem with exploiting a rule if it means your #1 center position is soon set for another 15 years (McDavid..) maybe it's not the high moral thing to do but at the end of day why play fair if others aren't.

Edited by frankgrimes

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But the Wings tried to sign many of those guys. Are you implying that the "Good move" was to sign an inept GM who cannot sign the players he targets? Makes no sense.

To preface my own point, none of us are actually in the room when an offer is made. So other then hearing rumors and speculation, none of know for sure what was offered or what was turned down.

Rumor has it that Holland did try to sign some of these UFA's, but once the term/$ amount got ridiculous with the exception of Suter he walked away which I am personally extremely thankful for, even in the case of Suter (no thank you 14 years).

Also, I don't get why people speak as if Holland hasn't gotten a UFA in years. The fact that he didn't sign Boyle, Niskanen, or Erhoff this season is not a big deal, and each player had his own reason of going where they did. Last year the top UFA's were LeCavalier, Iginla, Alfie, Fillpulla, Weiss, and Clarkson, and he signed Alfie and Weiss two of the biggest out there. I'm sure some people are reading this saying "you're saying those are big names lol" to which I respond "you're right, buts that free agency now". This years class was "headlined" by Niskanen and Stasny, middle of the road to good players being overpaid to contracts that teams are going to be looking to buy-out or trade away in a couple years (In the case of LeCavalier it didnt even take 1 full season). Unless you are giving a vet a couple years, anyone at the top of a UFA class is going to be overpaid.

Edited by kliq

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To preface my own point, none of us are actually in the room when an offer is made. So other then hearing rumors and speculation, none of know for sure what was offered or what was turned down.

Rumor has it that Holland did try to sign some of these UFA's, but once the term/$ amount got ridiculous with the exception of Suter he walked away which I am personally extremely thankful for, even in the case of Suter (no thank you 14 years).

Also, I don't get why people speak as if Holland hasn't gotten a UFA in years. The fact that he didn't sign Boyle, Niskanen, or Erhoff this season is not a big deal, and each player had his own reason of going where they did. Last year the top UFA's were LeCavalier, Iginla, Alfie, Fillpulla, Weiss, and Clarkson, and he signed Alfie and Weiss two of the biggest out there. I'm sure some people are reading this saying "you're saying those are big names lol" to which I respond "you're right, buts that free agency now". This years class was "headlined" by Niskanen and Stasny, middle of the road to good players being overpaid to contracts that teams are going to be looking to buy-out or trade away in a couple years (In the case of LeCavalier it didnt even take 1 full season). Unless you are giving a vet a couple years, anyone at the top of a UFA class is going to be overpaid.

Ehrhoff, Niskanen are a big deal because they would have fixed an ever increasing hole since Lidas left.

Holland and some fans need to realize the time where players would come here for less are over. The Wings nowadays are just one of the teams asking for their service and if the money isn't comparable or hence better they won't sign. Overpayment and taking risks are part of a GMs job, UFA is also known as overpayment day but guess what ? I would have given Suter, Parise even 15 years if it means we are getting to see another cup for Mr. I, Pasha and Z after they've done so much for this former TOP destination in the NHL.

Whats the point of having capsapce if the top guys aren't hitting UFA anymore or you aren't going to use it t o your advantage ? Add to that it's not like the capspace has been used wisely this off-season either, overpayment for 2 players and third on the cusp of getting re-signed which doesn't leave a lot for a local hero (Danny D) is that smart cap management ? I don't think so.

Also Holland didn't take a risks and still lost a trades by a landslide (Poilé absolutely schooled him) so losing a big trade is much better than getting schooled by another gm, as did Yzerman two years ago..

As for McDavid the competition is fierce and tough you need to outtank: Buffalo, Florida, Winnipeg, Edmonton, New York, Calgary and maybe even Phoenix but keep in mind the second pick is also a great one Eichel will be a star in this league too.

Edited by frankgrimes

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Ehrhoff, Niskanen are a big deal because they would have fixed an ever increasing hole since Lidas left.

Holland and some fans need to realize the time where players would come here for less are over. The Wings nowadays are just one of the teams asking for their service and if the money isn't comparable or hence better they won't sign. Overpayment and taking risks are part of a GMs job, UFA is also known as overpayment day but guess what ? I would have given Suter, Parise even 15 years if it means we are getting to see another cup for Mr. I, Pasha and Z after they've done so much for this former TOP destination in the NHL.

Whats the point of having capsapce if the top guys aren't hitting UFA anymore or you aren't going to use it t o your advantage ? Add to that it's not like the capspace has been used wisely this off-season either, overpayment for 2 players and third on the cusp of getting re-signed which doesn't leave a lot for a local hero (Danny D) is that smart cap management ? I don't think so.

Also Holland didn't take a risks and still lost a trades by a landslide (Poilé absolutely schooled him) so losing a big trade is much better than getting schooled by another gm, as did Yzerman two years ago..

As for McDavid the competition is fierce and tough you need to outtank: Buffalo, Florida, Winnipeg, Edmonton, New York, Calgary and maybe even Phoenix but keep in mind the second pick is also a great one Eichel will be a star in this league too.

They would fix the hole left by Lidstrom?......Really?

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Good move.

I'm still not really sure what Holland could have done since 2009 to make things any better. We're rebuilding through the draft. With the Cap, and how over inflated the UFA market is, it's the way to go. We haven't missed out on a thing by not signing guys like Ehrhoff, Clarkson, and Wisniewski, or Suter or Parise to 13 years.

He could have kept Hossa over Franzen.

I know he would have been vilified on LGW for that move, but a good GM can see past immediate reactions to see future gain. Holland either didn't count on Franzen's eventual laziness, or thought Hossa would get worse.

Keeping guys like Bertuzzi, Sammy and Cleary too long didn't help matters any.

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